PDA

View Full Version : off topic-changes in tutorial delivery



cresshead
07-31-2009, 04:27 PM
see
http://www.digitaltutors.com/digital_tutors/comingsoon.php

looks as though digtal tutors are JUST about to change their way of delivering tutorials to online only so following lynda.com and 3dbuzz

on the upside you by the looks of it subscribe to this 'service' so have access to watch all/any of the videos on a monthly fee basis.

on the downside, there's no offline option so the way i used to learn/watch of putting the videos on my netbook and watching them whilst commuting to work is at an end. So you have to have a net connection to learn.

opinions/discuss?

thomascheng
07-31-2009, 04:35 PM
this is definitely the future, but we are not completely ready for it yet. When Laptops get built in cellular connection, then we will ready. Right now, only a few laptops can provide this without an external device.

AdamAvenali
07-31-2009, 04:51 PM
i can see a problem might rise with people who's work machines are not connected to the net, which i have heard quite a few people say around here. i have really learned a lot from digital tutors though, mostly for maya and mental ray, so i'm sure i will still be a returning customer :)

SplineGod
07-31-2009, 05:37 PM
More then likely the result of piracy.

cresshead
07-31-2009, 10:48 PM
yeah i'd guess that piracy was a large part of the change, that's why 3dbuzz changed to a lynda.com style delivery method as well as being simpler to administor with no duplication or shipping costs....just a secure user log in and server bandwidth/space.

on the whole it's a good move but i'll miss using up my commute time watching training vids in future...I will have to go back to playing games on a dsi huh?

if they had a download 'timed' option [30day] like the bbc's iplayer or itunes rental in addition to online only then i'd be totally cool on this move.

DiedonD
08-01-2009, 12:27 AM
This isnt new at all. CTE or so, had this as an option to buying DVD tuts. Thats how I had my AE6.5 DVD tut back then!

The other thing why I dont like it, is that after 30 days of online training, where upon youve learned what there was to learn, after a while you might want to get back to that specific learning curve the way you were exposed to knowledge in the first place!

You know that chapter 2 deals with splines for instance, and you wont have that option of going there on that chapter, where you have on your mind stored the address of that quick reference, you wont be able to go there without paying for another month afterwards!

Thats the ripp off part!

I think they are doing this to boost sales appart from piracy concerns! Ever since I had DVD of AE6.5 I never needed any other DVD for AE for example! If I mightve needed it, for the sake of one minute quick reference, I always had it on the DVD. Now it seems youll have to pay for another needless complete month just to see it!

PixelDust
08-01-2009, 01:35 PM
I don't like it being online only. I'm fortunate to be able to have satellite broadband, but where I live, it's either satellite or dial-up. Plus I have a limit on how much I can download a day (a bit over 300 MB/day, unless I stay up till 3 a.m.-6 a.m.).

I also prefer to be able to view the videos offline. It's more convenient that way.

Apparently, Digital Tutors and others assume that 3D/graphics enthusiasts only live in cities... :mad:

IMI
08-01-2009, 04:40 PM
Go with the flow, I guess...

I've become a huge fan of DT, and I believe they have a great deal of integrity and commitment towards delivering an excellent product. I also believe that they will do everything possible to make it a positive experience for their customers, and if people don't like it or it's not working properly, they'll change it.

I do like the clips and notes ideas, those look awesome.

I guess we'll see. How much does a monthly subscription cost?

Sarford
08-01-2009, 06:51 PM
Just buy the subscription and then screencapture the wole lot to disk, burn it to a DVD and you're done.

I don't like the 'streaming only' trent though. I have lots of DT DVD's which I still use as reference material. You can do that with the subscription ofcourse, but you'll need an active subscription, which costs money.

erikals
08-01-2009, 08:20 PM
Just buy the subscription and then screencapture the wole lot to disk, burn it to a DVD and you're done.

I don't like the 'streaming only' trent though. I have lots of DT DVD's which I still use as reference material. You can do that with the subscription ofcourse, but you'll need an active subscription, which costs money.

agree, i don't think that method will last for long,
ppl will hack it, sooner or later.

not really a fan of that method, so think they will change their tachtichs pretty soon,..

SplineGod
08-01-2009, 10:15 PM
I would be surprised if their subscription agreement didnt prohibit anyone from recording it that way.

Soth
08-01-2009, 11:13 PM
I would be surprised if their subscription agreement didnt prohibit anyone from recording it that way.

What would be illegal (agreement) in many countries anyway.

Dexter2999
08-01-2009, 11:48 PM
agree, i don't think that method will last for long,
ppl will hack it, sooner or later.

sooner... you can find site hacks on torrent searches already.

SplineGod
08-02-2009, 01:39 AM
Which takes us back to why companies try and go with business models like this...piracy.

erikals
08-02-2009, 02:10 AM
well, but now they get an additional problem, actual buyers that are unsatisfied...
sounds like a mistake to go that route,..

pming
08-02-2009, 02:27 AM
...which brings us right back to the beginning again...no matter what or how a company tries to protect itself from piracy, it *will* get cracked (usually in the space of a few days to a few hours). The end result: legitimate customers have to agree to all sorts of draconian EULA rules, pay more money, have to jump through technical hoops, must agree to various hand outs of private data, and have no real resource if something goes wrong with their subscription. Meanwhile the pirates use the same resource for free, with no extra tech-hoops or privacy concerns.

But we're getting into a piracy debate here.

For me, I like the old way. I like buying a DVD, getting it in the mail, and being able to just slap it in the computer, or TVDVD, DVD player, X-Box, etc. and watch it. I also like the knowledge that, after I've watched it, in 3 years I can pull it out of the box in the basement and re-watch it for fun and to pick up all the little tips n' tricks you miss during the first couple viewings. Oh, and I like that I can trade with friends ("I'll lend you my Project Viper modeling DVD if you lend me the one about advanced particles").

But, I'll have a look at what DT does. I have always liked their stuff.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

erikals
08-02-2009, 02:36 AM
personally i like downloads, i can get it instantly, important if i have a project that rely on that technique, it does happen at times, also downloads are easier to backup.

i guess there is also money to save as far as handling/ shipping, though there is an additional server costs of course...

cresshead
08-02-2009, 06:13 AM
I would be surprised if their subscription agreement didnt prohibit anyone from recording it that way.

only if you 'agree' with it...if your a pirate then you don't agree and you record it..

the thing about lynda.com is that the offer a per month subscription based on 12 months, a 30 day pass or you can buy the cdrom/dvd.

so not sure if digital tutors ARE killing off dvd and downloads but their posting does indicate that's going to happen.

looks like e-downloads ARE dead.
http://www.digitaltutors.com/forum/showthread.php?p=55519

i'll probably move to gnomon for zbrush training from now on as i got used to watching my training whilst going to work on the bus with my netbook..and that's impossible with streaming .

erikals
08-02-2009, 06:17 AM
only if you 'agree' with it...if your a pirate then you don't agree and you record it..

Arr-arr!! http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/impishseraph/hello%20and%20your%20cute%20smiley/pirate.gif

probiner
08-02-2009, 06:31 AM
(off this topic)
Erikals, shouldn't be a viking in your case?
Oh right it isn't Norway, its Noway =)

- "Where you live?"
- "In Noway"
- "Noway? How can i get there?"
- "In no way"

erikals
08-02-2009, 06:47 AM
that's right, we get to you, not the other way around, hehe http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/wink.gif

-erik the viking

zapper1998
08-02-2009, 07:54 AM
There is a web site, you can c/p the url of the video, and it will download it and you get an email with the converted video..
I have done this with utube, and a few others so i could watch it offline...
free videos that is ....
any whooot...

pming
08-02-2009, 10:26 AM
Hiya.

Well, as long as the give a respectable choice to have "subscription and get EVERYTHING" (which seems to be how it is), but *also* allow folks to say "Now *that* was a good tutorial!"...and then buy it in 'hard format' for a decent price. If they drop all manner of *actual* purchase in favor of the subscription-must-have-internet-all-the-time, then you can count me out*.

*Exception!: if the monthly fee is, say, $10/month...then I'll join, maybe. At $15/mo, that's likely my maximum limit...I don't like the idea that, say, after 2 years DT gets bought out or otherwise changes/stops how they do business, I'd be out $360+ and have nothing to show for it other that fuzzy memories.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

cresshead
08-02-2009, 10:28 AM
Hiya.

Well, as long as the give a respectable choice to have "subscription and get EVERYTHING" (which seems to be how it is), but *also* allow folks to say "Now *that* was a good tutorial!"...and then buy it in 'hard format' for a decent price. If they drop all manner of *actual* purchase in favor of the subscription-must-have-internet-all-the-time, then you can count me out*.

*Exception!: if the monthly fee is, say, $10/month...then I'll join, maybe. At $15/mo, that's likely my maximum limit...I don't like the idea that, say, after 2 years DT gets bought out or otherwise changes/stops how they do business, I'd be out $360+ and have nothing to show for it other that fuzzy memories.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

re>have nothing to show for it other that fuzzy memories.

that sounds like school, college, uni.:D

zapper1998
08-02-2009, 10:41 AM
If you pay for it, you should get the option to download it ..... for your own personal use..

If you do not get the option to down load it, I personally would not pay for a subscription that does not allow you to download a copy...

They should also give the option to send a dvd at least..

erikals
08-02-2009, 10:52 AM
If you pay for it, you should get the option to download it ..... for your own personal use..

If you do not get the option to down load it, I personally would not pay for a subscription that does not allow you to download a copy...

They should also give the option to send a dvd at least..

come to think, i actually think that that is the law over here,... that you are entitled to a "physical" copy.

cresshead
08-02-2009, 11:38 AM
come to think, i actually think that that is the law over here,... that you are entitled to a "physical" copy.

i think it works more like a subscription to a tv channel...you can watch it anytime..but they don't give you a vhs recorder and a stack of blank E180 tapes...:thumbsup:

IMI
08-02-2009, 12:01 PM
From their FAQ:

"We'll probably release pricing information and sign-up information next week."

Man, that's sooooo annoying. Why do people always do that?
You can't tell me they haven't already figured out what they're going to charge per month, year, or whatever.

But in any event, "probably"? It's supposed to begin on August 4th, which is Tuesday. So I'd say that the prices and sign-up information really OUGHT to be announced "by next week". ;)


I'll probably sign up for at least a month, right away. There are a whole bunch of their videos I've wanted to get but haven't been able to justify the cost for.
And it looks as though their *entire* library will be available via subscription. I'm hoping that includes example files in that price and you don't have to buy some kind of Super Premium Subscription to be able to get both the videos and the lesson files.

garynb
08-03-2009, 12:26 AM
Pity there seems to be no lightwave tutorials otherwise I would have jumped at the chance. I use lynda.com which is a great source for learning all kinds of software.

Cheers

Gary

DiedonD
08-03-2009, 12:52 AM
only if you 'agree' with it...if your a pirate then you don't agree and you record it..


Why shouldnt I record it! Say Im done with the 30 days that Ive subscribed myself for a certain topic of my interest! Them 30 days expire, and I just want to be sure of a single small issue weather it was like that or not. Just a quick reference. Theyd say

'STOP, you want a quicky, subscribe for another 30 days!'
'But I only want some 10 seconds of quick reference! I know where it is! Just a small little look!'
'STOP, you want a quicky, subscribe for another 30 days!'
'Bah! Better think next time and record it then!'

But WILL we be able to screen capture it?

Not all streaming vids are capturable! In some that I know, should you try to capture it, only the right lower corner will be visible, though youve perfectly centered the capturing deivce in the bulls eyed center of the video!

SplineGod
08-03-2009, 07:15 AM
The bottom line is thats simply justifying pirating it.
IF its clearly stated in the license agreement that you agree not to copy it, and then you agree not to, make the purchase and then proceed to copy it the material then its called piracy. Its the same 'justification' among man others that people have to do it...

DiedonD
08-03-2009, 07:22 AM
The bottom line is thats simply justifying pirating it.
IF its clearly stated in the license agreement that you agree not to copy it, and then you agree not to, make the purchase and then proceed to copy it the material then its called piracy. Its the same 'justification' among man others that people have to do it...

Agreement! Oh you mean the licence agreement!

Bah, who reads that stuff anyway :neener:

Just teasing with you man ;) . It looks like youre interested in making your tuts online huh?

Well, its easy in your case. Cause your human. Should one want a quick reference you would provide such knowledge. See youre different. Youre not some sort a appathetic working machine with fixed non flexible borders that rather seeks out ripping people off than leaving them satisfied!

Its them that really deserve pirating! Its about time they learn that seeking out ripp offs so vigilantly would only provoke piracy!

SplineGod
08-03-2009, 07:40 AM
Weve considered it along with other options.
Ive spoken with the owner of Ailsefx and hes stated that hes thought about
getting out the tutorial business due to the amount of piracy.
I know KURV gets quite a few orders based on fraudulent credit cards and
we see our material pirated all the time....in fact enough times where Ive considered
getting out of it as well.
Weve even lowered the prices for webinars etc and even when a class is only $2.50 we STILL get people complaining that the class wasnt free.
So on one hand you have those that outright try and rip you off using fraudulent credit cards and then those who pool their money, buy the DVDs and share or post them. Then those who download them and repost them. Its become pretty rampant and it comes down to finding ways to recoup the money lost. Packaging and shipping DVDs is time consuming and expensive so going strictly online is about the only way to realistically offset that money lost due to piracy. After awhile it can become quite discouraging...

IMI
08-03-2009, 12:15 PM
Youre not some sort a appathetic working machine with fixed non flexible borders that rather seeks out ripping people off than leaving them satisfied!

Its them that really deserve pirating! Its about time they learn that seeking out ripp offs so vigilantly would only provoke piracy!

While I agree with your assessment of Larry...

Is that your impression of Digital Tutors? I've never gotten that impression at all. Gnomonology/Gnomon Workshop, maybe, but not DT.
Normally something like this change would concern me, but I'm having a hard time getting upset about it. As I wrote above, if it doesn't work out, or if the negative feedback is overwhelming, I think they'll go back to the old way or explore alternatives.
They're aspiring to become the best suppliers of 3D training and are well on their way, if not there already, and they're not going to maintian their position by pissing off their customers. Competition is always around the corner, waiting to fill a niche.

erikals
08-03-2009, 02:20 PM
Weve considered it along with other options.
Ive spoken with the owner of Ailsefx and hes stated that hes thought about
getting out the tutorial business due to the amount of piracy.
I know KURV gets quite a few orders based on fraudulent credit cards and
we see our material pirated all the time....in fact enough times where Ive considered
getting out of it as well.
Weve even lowered the prices for webinars etc and even when a class is only $2.50 we STILL get people complaining that the class wasnt free.
So on one hand you have those that outright try and rip you off using fraudulent credit cards and then those who pool their money, buy the DVDs and share or post them. Then those who download them and repost them. Its become pretty rampant and it comes down to finding ways to recoup the money lost. Packaging and shipping DVDs is time consuming and expensive so going strictly online is about the only way to realistically offset that money lost due to piracy. After awhile it can become quite discouraging...

completely understandable.
(p.s. Kurv should have video previews of their dvds, it gives ppl a much better idea of what they are actually buying.)

i thought about getting into making online tutorials for sale at one point, but that is what drives me off, the huge amount of piracy.

it is just so much easier for a person to download video from a piracy site rather than to actually buy it online.

i have a feeling the market for selling tutorials will vanish.

cresshead
08-03-2009, 02:50 PM
software/video piracy has been around ever since the record button was created.

you just have to factor in the potential loss against the people who buy stuff
microsoft have done okay even though their software is THE most copied software on the planet.

if your in a low volume market such as 3d training videos then you may find it difficult to get enough income if your particular app is not the top app out there to learn with that if you can spread your training over several apps you may do okay, that's what digital tutors, lynda and gnomon do.

lightwave is a shrinking sector due to it's life cycle ending in a year or so, to be replaced with CORE so training is going to be squeezed with lightwave, adding blender won't really help as it's 'free' so they think training should be free too mostly..some would pay but it's a very small market but one that may grow with the release of blender 2.5 and a lot of people hoping to ditch maya,xsi an 3dsmax in favor of blender.
defo one to watch..could be a game changer in the near future for freelancers and small studios, probably not large studios just yet mind you.

training videos with CORE is probably 12-18 months off...just a guess currently btw.

3d coat is a growing app so can sustain a training pak or 2 but it's 3rd in a three horse race for sculpting, again it maybe the long shot that wins in the end but your up against mudbox and the goliath of autodesk and the current king of the sculpting hill> Zbrush
with 3.5 and 4.0 due it could do well with new releases of training videos, there seems plenty of scope with sculpting especially project based and with GoZ fo every app will look VERY exciting post siggy 2009.

as for maya, max and xsi digital tutors are now autodesk prefered training partner so any other video training paks from elsewhere may have a harder time getting a customer to choose them of digital tutors..but the streaming only option maybe a good way in for those who prefer e-downloads [me]

houdini training is on the move but the actual app is just so expensive to buy/maintain for commercial work that the pool of people seeking video training is quite tiny, much smaller than lightwave i believe.

for cinema 4d it's not made much headway into general usage and it's more expensive than 3dsmax or xsi..many would have a hard time moving to cinema currently with their pricing from say lightwave or xsi due to it's high cost of ownership...so video training is quite limited there also.

there are other apps such as sketchup, messiah and vue but their userbase are also quite small.

for video training content creators it tough and getting tougher to find markets that look to be growing and not swamped by the big league's training libray.

one sector that maybe worth persuing is that of training on 'renderers', esp for "productions'
we see and read alot about doing stuff in maya/xsi and rendering back out in lightwave...

yet there's hardly ANY tip top training specifically on lightwave's renderer and connecting it to other apps in a production.
a selection of videos covering lighting, surfacing including nodal and the import/export to and from lightwave to maya, max and xsi would be most welcome.
add in a lightwave fast track for newbies video and you may create some new cutomers from other apps currently.

Larry/KURV, you hearing this?

lightwave's renderer is the key thing that still kicks butt agaisnt the other renderers for animated productions such as television, motion graphic works, simulations and film.


the type of training we don't see much of is the multi-app based training..we tend to get the ring fenced 1 app on the planet type training which is just silly in reality.

prodution based training is the way forward which would show an end to end video training pak that may cover lightwave, zbrush, photoshop[paint app], maya/max/xsi [import export] then back to render out in lightwave and comp in after effects/combustion/motion/fusion/shake/blender and edit in finalcut/speed edit.

updated...

DiedonD
08-06-2009, 01:19 AM
Weve considered it along with other options.
Ive spoken with the owner of Ailsefx and hes stated that hes thought about
getting out the tutorial business due to the amount of piracy.
I know KURV gets quite a few orders based on fraudulent credit cards and
we see our material pirated all the time....in fact enough times where Ive considered
getting out of it as well.
Weve even lowered the prices for webinars etc and even when a class is only $2.50 we STILL get people complaining that the class wasnt free.
So on one hand you have those that outright try and rip you off using fraudulent credit cards and then those who pool their money, buy the DVDs and share or post them. Then those who download them and repost them. Its become pretty rampant and it comes down to finding ways to recoup the money lost. Packaging and shipping DVDs is time consuming and expensive so going strictly online is about the only way to realistically offset that money lost due to piracy. After awhile it can become quite discouraging...

Well it sounds good. But have you came up with a solution about when a user has went through the tuts for 30 days, and should he want just a minor reference about one small thing, have you come up with a better solution for that?

Youre not going to say 'You want a quick reference, get another 30 days of online training' are you?


@ IMI

Well what do you call people that wont understand that you just need a small reference after youve went through the entire tut for 30 days?

Surely you wont remember them all forever!! At one time after a while, when a solution comes to your mind, youll just need a quick reference, to be sure, to seek out what its kinda vague and shadowy, so as you can get on to your feet regarding that problem.

Beeing asked to enter another 30 days isnt a solution, cause youll only use it for 5 mins top for a reference! Nor its not a long term solution for you may need it in monthly basis! Why should you apply for it in monthly basis when you are going to use it 5 minutes per month!!

SplineGod
08-06-2009, 02:19 AM
Theres no perfect solution. Another way to think about it is you pay to go to school.
You go to the class and take notes. If you want to review the information you refer back to your notes because the instructor will most likely not repeat the same information on demand.
It would be great if all this could be done using the honor system, based on a handshake etc but unfortunately those who pirate always find ways to justify it and the solution tends to come down to business models that were discussing now or simply shutting down the business.
From my own experience if I cant afford school then I dont go but I always find a way to pay for it. Anything worth having is worth working for. Too many people want shortcuts or free rides. Ive worked with people in the past who couldnt afford to pay in one go so I let them make payments. I try and be reasonable or as accomdating as I can. It boils down to the fact that some people dont care and feel theyre owed a living. :)

IMI
08-06-2009, 02:35 AM
@ IMI

Well what do you call people that wont understand that you just need a small reference after youve went through the entire tut for 30 days?

Surely you wont remember them all forever!! At one time after a while, when a solution comes to your mind, youll just need a quick reference, to be sure, to seek out what its kinda vague and shadowy, so as you can get on to your feet regarding that problem.

Beeing asked to enter another 30 days isnt a solution, cause youll only use it for 5 mins top for a reference! Nor its not a long term solution for you may need it in monthly basis! Why should you apply for it in monthly basis when you are going to use it 5 minutes per month!!

What do I call them? Businessmen. ;)

If you think you're going to use it for only 5 minutes per month, then why sign up at all?
I'm assuming they're going to make it all worthwhile, or it won't last. You won't want to pay for 30 days to reference old videos, you'll want to pay for 30 days to reference everything - everything old and new. So you're only looking at one side of it, the worst case scenario.
I doubt it will be like HBO and Cinemax where you get the same movies over and over and over again, month after month. I have a feeling they'll be justifying all this by creating more and more specialized video training sessions.

Besides, if there's a problem you have and can be solved with a 5 minute reference, they have forums for all their training as well as individual software packages, not to mention the forums at Autodesk Area and CG Talk and so on. So you could ask questions, I suppose.

I don't really think it's optimal either, and yes, I would prefer to be able to keep buying downloads and physical DVD's from them, but... oh well, I'm not going to solve anything by getting aggravated and I'll only spite myself if I boycott them.

If it proves that their customers aren't happy, they'll change it, I'm sure.

DiedonD
08-06-2009, 03:12 AM
Theres no perfect solution. Another way to think about it is you pay to go to school.
You go to the class and take notes.

Taking notes on an online video lecture = ScreenCapturing :D

DiedonD
08-06-2009, 03:15 AM
What do I call them? Businessmen. ;)

If you think you're going to use it for only 5 minutes per month, then why sign up at all?
I'm assuming they're going to make it all worthwhile, or it won't last. You won't want to pay for 30 days to reference old videos, you'll want to pay for 30 days to reference everything - everything old and new. So you're only looking at one side of it, the worst case scenario.
I doubt it will be like HBO and Cinemax where you get the same movies over and over and over again, month after month. I have a feeling they'll be justifying all this by creating more and more specialized video training sessions.

Besides, if there's a problem you have and can be solved with a 5 minute reference, they have forums for all their training as well as individual software packages, not to mention the forums at Autodesk Area and CG Talk and so on. So you could ask questions, I suppose.

I don't really think it's optimal either, and yes, I would prefer to be able to keep buying downloads and physical DVD's from them, but... oh well, I'm not going to solve anything by getting aggravated and I'll only spite myself if I boycott them.

If it proves that their customers aren't happy, they'll change it, I'm sure.

The bottom line is, if I have payed for information, Id like to have it till the day I die!

And going through it online once isnt sufficient enough to feel like you own the information! Especially if they wont let you have a quick reference to it afteerwards!

But the technology is limitless. Cant they make a free reference thingy!

Overshadow everything else, and highlight only the reference part! But then after those 30 days initial tryouts, it should be then free!

IMI
08-06-2009, 03:21 AM
But then after those 30 days initial tryouts, it should be then free!

Why? Why should you have perpetual access to something where the agreement is you pay for a time period and have access only then?
Think about that for a minute before answering.
If you rent a movie, or buy a pay-per-view movie do you get to watch it again whenever you want, for life?

No, you don't.
Fact is, they've changed their system and you have to either go along with it, or not. Life's a b1tch that way. ;)

Having said that, I'd prefer they just kept it the way they were doing it, but ya gotta move with the times, man. Adapt. :)

DiedonD
08-06-2009, 03:25 AM
Sometimes speaking less is worthy more so...

Either free reference afterwards or ScreenCapture with me!

No other way for me for that one.

Come to think of it, I think that proffessors in our schools would be proud to have their lessons recorded on a camera and shared among students!

Or even a greater honor! That captured lecture beeing aired on TV!

cresshead
08-06-2009, 05:06 AM
'if' pay per view/pay per month streaming is going to end up being the normal way of video training due to the creators trying to out smart [not that they will] pirates..
if i do use digital tutors with a month's subscription..i'll watch the lesson then record myself with camtasia doing that lesson, making my own version of the model/scene so at the end of the month i have a 'cresshead' video to keep and refer to.

also...i think printed books might come back as the way to learn...i used to buybooks to learn 3dsmax and lightwave before videos took off but in a slightly different form.

one of the best books i had was for maya as it also had a dvd with a video that mimiced each chapter..you could read the book or watch the video.


The thing that i've noted myself is that looking back on what i've bought in the past, i started with buying books, then bought cdrom based video training..tried ONCE with a video training pak that was locked to your pc and found that unusable as it demanded anything like camtasia needed to be uninstalled..that was a step too far for me..an i have since noted that the training company has gone..
Then bought dvd based training [gnomon, digital tutors, kurv]...as people will note shipping gnomon dvd's to the uk was VERY expensive..we pooled a few people over here to reduced the shipping cost of traon's dvd buy buying in bulk.

Later gnomon started to offer per chapter for download..that worked really well..then digital tutors started to offer e-downloads of whole dvd's and i went with that
For me, the e- download system is the best, it was slightly cheaper, had no shipping costs and i could get it within a hour or 2..of course that also proved the best system for people who wanted to copy it and share it on the net..

Now..note that lynda.com has been offering $25 per month streaming training for lots of apps including 3dsmax fo years...and i even got a free month pass when i bought coreldraw...still haven't tried it.... for me it did not appeal as a way to learn.
However if this is the 'future' then i'll be forced to change to a system that i find inferior to the e-download system, i find the $45 for 30days off putting...for me it'll mean making notes, either video or written and i'll lose the origonal training after 30days.
There's no chance of me buying a year's training [$400]..i've never spend $400 for renting only to have all that disapear come 12 month's later...for me they're 'model' doesn't work..i'll maybe go for a month's rent but never 6 or 12...just to learn 1 or 2
'discs' worth.

With my susbscription on 3dsmax i get free e-learning videos from autodesk that cover new tools to download and watch..being part of the subs for the application is neat, also autodesk creat free videos for members on the area to watch also.
I can see gnomon going streaming if digital tutors keeps their userbase, that then leaves the simply.com sites, 3dgarge and kurv with physical media offerings.

Digital tutors have some really good trainers who cover maya, max and zbrush..i'm probably going to continue with 'some' DT training though i find it annoying that i'll lose it in 30days and can't take it on my netbook.
Kurv's current list of training offerings don't cover what i want to learn, which is zbrush, max and maya.
3dbuzz's $35 per month streaming also don't have project based training and don't cover zbrush, max as well as DT, though i did buy the max and maya fundemantals training which is stunning and they continue to offer the dvd's in addition to they're streaming videos.
Simply.com training last time i looked didn't have much i wanted to buy and most of the trainers were not up to mch in my opinion.

Mentalboutmax offered some good training but not bought much recently..they do e download..they tend to waffle on abit though.
3dpalace have project based dvd's but never like their project listings or the trainers
3dtotal look okay but again not offering what i'm seeking so far.

VTC offer some unique titles and i bought the toon boom studio dvd's from amazon..they were expensive but covered something no one else did, so were worth it in my eyes.

here's the deal for me..
project based video learning...the project need to be end to end..not part 1 of 200,000
e download option prefered though dvd and normal shipping costs are okay too..
i need a prefered trainer-
1.quality of the maya/zbrush chap on digital tutors
2.larry shultz
3.gnomon trainer ryan who covers zbrush
4.proton
5.chap on the toon boom training
6.trainers on the e learning on autodesk
7.zak from 3dbuzz, though i wish they'd do less waffling
8.chap on the modo cartoon training disc from luxology

there are alot of trainers out there i simply struggle to stay with, including some on digital tutors.[3dsmax rigging]

DiedonD
08-06-2009, 05:35 AM
VTC offer some unique titles and i bought the toon boom studio dvd's from amazon..they were expensive but covered something no one else did, so were worth it in my eyes.


Yes thats the one. VTC! Thats the one that offered among the first the option of learning online, while it also gave the same material through DVD's!

Ive purchased one DVD for AE and one for Premiere through VTC!

The one about AE was great 'Alt-Ctrl-Shift-S - I use it alot' :D . And 'The ones that have a single button mouse hold Ctr and click' were among his most mentioned and favorite words :)

But should I want to see something in AE, theres noway that Id HAVE to go for another month just to see what I know but am not certain about it!!

Thus monthly subscriptions fail in that regard. It failed then and it fails now, cause as I said its not a new thing, VTC had it... even around 2003-4.

The issue is OWNING your PURCHASED information here!

And not, purchasing air that will go away after 30 days!

I feel like they are trying to take advantage of the natural forgetfulness of the human nature here!

cresshead
08-06-2009, 05:38 AM
re VTC yeah i CHOSE the dvd over the online streaming as i want to keep the training to refer at a later date...more expensive yes, but worth it.

VTC give you the 'option', so do lynda.com, so i bought the vtc video from amazon.co.uk

DiedonD
08-06-2009, 07:03 AM
Amazon doesnt sends to various countries, and Im told that its more of UK-US thing.

Nah, I ordered it then directly from VTC US. Under the country Albania and Its among many great things that came all the way from US and knocking on my door :D

Dans book did came too.

IMI
09-04-2009, 03:24 AM
Just for the sake of mentioning it, I bought a monthly subscription to Digital Tutors just a couple hours ago. The whole process went quickly and flawlessly, and the videos work perfectly for me.
I had been having trouble viewing any videos at all in the free trial mode, but that was a while ago, and all is just fine for my subscription account.
45 bucks per month, and I feel I've already seen enough to justify that cost in only a few hours. ;)

Too bad they don't have any LW videos though. Then again, they're going to have to keep adding alot of videos to keep people interested. I for one won't keep paying month after month to watch the same videos over and over again, or if they only add a few per month I might be interested in.
So maybe they'll be forced to look into the wonderful world of LW in their search for new content ideas. ;)

It really is strange how they've completely ignored LW. They even have Modo videos.
Hell, they even have a whole anim8or training package!

Well no, I made that last part up, but still...


I wonder if maybe they only deal with software they have official partnerships with and NT denied them?
They list at least Adobe and AutoDisparage as being official partners, not sure about Lux or whomever it is that makes Houdini.

DiedonD
09-04-2009, 05:25 AM
Yeah IMI, it may work quite well for you, in what I gather it to be in a surfing paste. But should you go deeper youll need references. Then what?

IMI
09-04-2009, 06:17 AM
Yeah IMI, it may work quite well for you, in what I gather it to be in a surfing paste. But should you go deeper youll need references. Then what?

Notes? Memory? I don't know, and I'd still prefer just to be able to buy the videos from them for good, but it is what it is.

Diedon, don't you think they've take this into consideration? I haven't read their forums in a while so I don't know what people are saying, but I'm sure there are alot of people unhappy with it for the same reason you are.

The only way they're going to make it work is to continue to add many many new videos regularly, or all they'll ever have is newcomers who don't stick around after a month of screen-capturing their videos.
They didn't make this move to try to kill off their enterprise after all, and I'm sure they're well aware they'll have to offer more than just old content and nifty new viewing tools in order to maintain a user base.

They're going to have to make people *want* to continue to renew and to feel they're getting their money's worth. They can't just rest on their laurels and assume people will ante up once a month just so they can review an old clip every now and then.

And having created that situation where you *want* to continue to subscribe, the issue of not being able to reference becomes a non-issue entirely.


EDIT:
What's a "surfing paste"? Anything like surfboard wax? ;)

Also, I should add you get the example files too, which from those guys are always excellent, and you get to keep all that stuff.

SplineGod
09-04-2009, 06:32 AM
Heres why theyre going to the format theyre going with:
http://rapidog.com/digital-tutors-rapidshare.html
First and foremost, digital tutors is a business. If they lose money from peoople copying DVDs and posting them online then they either have to protect their investment the best way they see fit or go out of business. Piracy is rampant and its effecting everyone. The only way to keep people in business who do training is for people to stop stealing and finding ways to justify stealing and discouraging others from doing the same.

DiedonD
09-04-2009, 06:34 AM
Well certainly you want in, thats for sure.

Im not interested in longer lasting glimpses, that will leave you with nothing, after the glimplse is gone, however briliant quality the glimpse can be.

Just because it is working, it doesnt seems good enough for me.

Screen Capturing is a plus, and in that condition it would do even better, cause its cheaper.

But, since you in, did you check weather they allow such activities IMI?

IMI
09-04-2009, 06:35 AM
And also, even if they add only *one* new training package per month that I'm interested in, I'll continue to subscribe. For what they charge for their training packages, it's well worth 45 bucks for even just that. Although I'm sure there will be more than just one per month I'll want to see.

And especially with ZBrush 3.5 and soon-to-be ZBrush 4 about to hit the stage. Their ZBrush training is outstanding, and I'm sure they will have plenty of new ZB stuff in the near future.

Maybe even one day they'll do something with LW. Although I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for it. ;)

IMI
09-04-2009, 06:37 AM
Screen Capturing is a plus, and in that condition it would do even better, cause its cheaper.

But, since you in, did you check weather they allow such activities?

No, I didn't actually check but I'm sure it's not allowed. I'm sure there's some "...can't reproduce in any form, blah blah blah..." thing in there somewhere. Who reads EULAs anyway? ;)

IMI
09-04-2009, 01:05 PM
I just spent the past 5 hours watching new ZBrush training from DT and learned a *whole lot* of extremely useful photoshop tips and techniques too.
Things I will remember, things I will do often from here on out, things I won't need to reference back to.
I learned how to use Image Plane in ZBrush 3.1 to put a face photo on a head model far easier and quicker than doing it with Photoshop and a UV map alone.
So there's two training packs I would have had to buy to get that knowledge, for far more than 45 dollars, and there's still a sh*tload of stuff I'm planning on watching and working on, more than I could do in a month, for sure.
So I'm a very happy customer at this point. :D