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phareous
08-25-2003, 12:38 PM
I want to use a videotoaster in a church for live switching between 3 feeds, titling, and using a 30-second clip store for opening and closing.

Every new system I've priced is $10,000 and I just don't have that kind of spare change.

I have a computer here and I am wondering if it would work with what I want with perhaps some modest upgrades? I know its not supported (athlon and IDE) but I've read of people successfully using them.

I got an athlon 1.2 ghz on an abit KT7A board with 512 MB ram, two 30 gb western digital WD300, and a ATI Rage XL Video card.

I see a few issues obviously...PC133 being the fastest ram and DMA100 the fastest IDE. Any suggestions?

sbrandt
08-25-2003, 02:49 PM
There are many others in here who are much more knowledable about the fine points, but I have learned this, so far, from personal experience...

The 1.2GHz should be at LEAST 1.7.

I've tried using two AMD boards (dual Tyan K7 Thunder and Asus A7M266-D dualie) They both ''worked'' but were unstable even for simple tasks in TEd.

I had to get rid of my (too) expensive ATI 8500DV Radeon and use a much less expensive and much better nVIDIA Ti card.
(The ATI is a very bad choice for the Toaster)

If you add two more WesternDigitals and stripe them they might haul the freight but I don't think they will handle 3 live feeds with titling.

If you care to monkeywrench a little bit you can build a MUCH better box for just a fraction of $10k, by buying high-quality, low-cost parts at www.pricewatch.com and doing it yourself.
That's what I did.

Get a SuperMicro or IWill board with an e7505 chipset and a PCI-X slot and a couple of 2.4 Xeons (you can even start with one and get the second Xeon when your budget allows) in a good SuperMicro, Antec or ThermalTake case and build on that. You can have a real powerhouse for about 2 grand.

You should clean up that KT7A and sell it while it's reasonably current technology and still worth something, and apply it towards the new box. There are plenty of Gamers out there that would be happy with a nice Abit board with a 1.2 Athlon.

Back to AMD... I'm hoping that the 64bit Opteron and 64FX will be supported by NewTek. They will be superb chips. I'd like to go back to an AMD system personally.:p

phareous
08-25-2003, 02:55 PM
What did you do for drives? I was thinking about trying the Serial ATA, or barring that going with regular ATA 133. I don't need much space at all (for like a minute of video stored). Do you have multiple IDEs striped or what? It would be cool to have an hour of video and put it on DVD but at this point it just is too expensive to go with these ultra scsi arrays.

sbrandt
08-25-2003, 04:38 PM
Right now I'm getting by on 3 ...OLD... 18.2Gig IBM DDYS-T1350 SCSIs.

When MY budget allows I'm going to by one good
73.4GB Seagate Cheetah 10Krpm ULTRA320 at a time,
until I have 3 or 4. I might even set them up and start
using them when I have 2.

Or at least that's the plan. If I hear or read really good things about SATA as I progress, I might go that direction instead. :rolleyes:

dml
08-25-2003, 06:06 PM
Be aware if you buy a dual mobo but only one processor and plan to add the second processor later . . . it may be difficult to find that same exact second processor a year from now. I have also heard that Intel creates processors in batches. So, two P4 XEONs running at say 2.4GHz from two different batches may differ enough somehow that they won't co-exist in the same PC. This was shared to me by a supplier (and no, I don't think it was his way of enticing me to buy two processors instead of one). Buy both processors at the same time.

Matt Drabick,
DigiTek Systems
Raleigh, NC

kleima
08-25-2003, 07:04 PM
I build all my own systems, but it's not easy at times. If you are good with computers, you should be OK.
1.2 GHz is not enough for the Toaster.
Another thing to think about: VT[3] can now encode (record) in real-time, with the DV codec. If you use this codec, then you need about 1/5 the space that you need for uncompresed. However, it is more taxing on the CPU. A 1.7 GHz is BARELY enough to record in DV without dropping frames. You NEED a better machine, or you will be really frustrated, and you will waste what little you put into it.
Buy one SCSI drive at a time. A SEAGATE CHEETAH 73.4GB 10000RPM ULTRA-320 SCSI only costs about $320. It would give you an hour of uncompressed. Five hours of DV. Buy another when you can afford it, and then stripe the two.
If you buy a high end Mother Board like the Tyan S2665UANF
it already has built in audio, 1000T networking, firewire (which you'll want if you want to take advantage of time code/batch capture support for DV devices), a SCSI320 controller and a 64bit bus to max the thruput of you SCSI320 drive. It costs $543. (It is a dual XEON board).
You need at least 1GB of RAM ($170), and not more the 2GB.
This would be a really top end system, with room for growth for less than 2K.
You will be frustrated if you try to cut too many corners. Also, don't buy the "house brand" components. Buy a Tyan, Intel, or SuperMicro motherboard, buy Seagate hard drives (if SCSI), buy Samsung memory, buy an NVidia graphics card, and you'll save yourself lots of headaches!
Also, Newtek has customized a solution, called Genesis, for churches that may be a little cheaper (I don't know the price, or if it is shipping yet, or not).

sbrandt
08-25-2003, 07:07 PM
Matt,
Yep... I've heard that too. Especially about Intel batches. Not so much regarding AMDs though. However, I got mine 4 months apart and in different places. One in Des Moines and the last one in Denver ...and they're both running ticky-boo... ...so far. :D
(The numbers and marking are identical on both chips)

kleima
08-25-2003, 07:10 PM
If you really want to use a non-SCSI drive solution, see this thread:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8474

sbrandt
08-26-2003, 02:53 AM
If anyone cares...

ticky-boo = tickity-boo

:cool: :cool: :cool:

bradl
08-26-2003, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by sbrandt
If anyone cares...

ticky-boo = tickity-boo

:cool: :cool: :cool:

I was wondering where you where going with that ticky-boo crap! Glad you straighten that out...

BTW, surely you gest about Colorado? One of my favorite places on earth. Got to admit mostly like the parts that starts at about 8,000 ft and going up... say Estes Park and anywhere west from there for about 30 miles.

I know, I know... don't call me Shirley :)

sbrandt
08-26-2003, 10:46 PM
Since you're so familiar with life just below the tree line, you should recognize ''tickity-boo'' ! I was raised with ranchers and loggers and when I was little, that was a common phrase (up there in the high country) used to describe when the yarder donkey or the Cats or the Logging Trucks were running especially well... ...I always took it to mean they were running so good, it was scary.

True it's alway better back in the woods, but the populated areas are cesspools in Colorado. Comparing Denver to say Pella or the Amanas or even Des Moines (or even Austin, Texas) is like comparing a whorehouse to a church.

Oh, and it's Jest, not Gest and no, I don't.
(Geste is an old English oral tale of sweet flowery romance told in verse [tra-la, tra-la...])

phareous
08-27-2003, 10:47 PM
Ok so if I am going to buy a new system what do you guys recommend? Can I get away with a single Xeon and 512 MB ram? And is the PCI-X a big deal?

kleima
08-28-2003, 12:09 AM
Yes, you can get away with single processor, even with P4 - non XEON. Get an Intel 865 board.
512MB is probably enough (barely) for live switching, and for editing in TEd. It is not enough for many things in AURA. But, you can always add another stick.
You should get a processor of 2.8GHz.
The area you limit yourself with this is PCI bandwidth, because you don't have a 64bit PCI slot. So, you will be able (with a fast SCSI raid) to do 3-4 layers of realtime video. This may be adequate for you. If you want to get 7-8 realtime streams you must have a 64bit PCI.

Bushmsn
08-28-2003, 08:35 AM
Where are you located? Because I have a vt2 that is seating idle. If your close enough we could use my machine.

phareous
08-28-2003, 09:17 AM
Bushmsn are you wanting to sell it? I'm needing something to use every week.

I've come up with a decent system at $2400...would be nice if I could get it a bit lower

You can look here:
http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishR.asp?ID=402794

tonsofpcs
08-28-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by phareous
I want to use a videotoaster in a church for live switching between 3 feeds, titling, and using a 30-second clip store for opening and closing.

Every new system I've priced is $10,000 and I just don't have that kind of spare change.

I have a computer here and I am wondering if it would work with what I want with perhaps some modest upgrades? I know its not supported (athlon and IDE) but I've read of people successfully using them.

I got an athlon 1.2 ghz on an abit KT7A board with 512 MB ram, two 30 gb western digital WD300, and a ATI Rage XL Video card.

I see a few issues obviously...PC133 being the fastest ram and DMA100 the fastest IDE. Any suggestions?

Amiga 3000, Video Toaster 2000 [or 4000 if you like color fx], and a VCR/VTR/VTP

kleima
08-28-2003, 10:23 AM
phareous,
Looks like a pretty good system with lots of room to grow!
Two concerns: It looks like the motherboard you have choosen doesn't have built in SCSI controller, and I don't see one listed in your list of components. You'll need one for the SCSI 73GB.
Also, why do you have two AGP graphics controllers listed? You can only use one! ;)

phareous
08-28-2003, 10:45 AM
No it has Ultra320 Scsi built-in... I have two video cards because I can't decide yet. I know the TI would be great but its 3 times the cost of the MX one. Is it really that big of a difference for just using videotoaster (no 3d games or anything)? Also I plan to do dual display so that could affect what I need too.

I've been looking over it and over it and can't find much else to cut. This needs to be mission critical for live events...so I can't deal with it acting up or being too slow. Also I went with the water cooling for noise reasons since it will be in the middle of the audience.

phareous
08-28-2003, 10:55 AM
Oh one more thing...do you guys think two 15" LCD would be sufficient? There seems to be a price jump to 17" LCD.

Bushmsn
08-28-2003, 12:18 PM
No I am not selling but if your close I could travel with it until you get one.

sbrandt
08-28-2003, 12:27 PM
Here are options...

X5DAL-TG2 (Will use both registered ECC and nonECC memory)

http://www.ajump.com/ajump/product.asp?pf%5Fid=9040172&dept%5Fid=5173

$437.00



2.4 Xeon

http://www.partspc.com/store/product4546.html

$224.68



SUPERMICRO SC762 CSE-0762-420 FULL TOWER 9BAY EATX 420W
(This case is built for the board and comes WITH power supply and I'd drop all the costly watercooling. I don't know anyone that uses it.)

http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?src=PW&item=33537

$195.95



I don't use a Chatintech but I've seen lots of post from people that do, and everyone seems thrilled with them.

sbrandt
08-28-2003, 12:45 PM
Now that I'm thinking about it, I think I recall some discussion about the Supermicro X5DAL-G I don't remember what thread or the specifics, but it's a e7505 and should work. It's only $365, but I don't see any SATA support.


Supermicro X5DAL-G Intel E7505 Dual Xeon DDR ATX Server Board w/Gigabit LAN

http://www.googlegear.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=242081

$365

(Just a thought):rolleyes:

phareous
08-28-2003, 01:18 PM
Well since it will be locked in a cabinet I guess water cooling isn't a necessity.

I went and redid it a little and now almost $2000 (yay!).

http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishR.asp?ID=402794

Now to find some LCD monitors. Also I still have to add a cutting board keyboard, and the VT2 itself (which seems to be $2700 online from safeharbor).

Any advice on the last details? I have no clue which LCDs are decent and which are junk.

kleima
08-28-2003, 11:25 PM
Two fifteen inch LCD's will be great if you have a video monitor for program out. It might be a little cramped if you use a full screen VT Vision on one monitor for program. But, it would still be workable even with no video monitor for Prog Out.

sbrandt
08-29-2003, 12:10 AM
Phareous...

The box you chose has only 6 bays.
The SC762 CSE-0762-420 has 9 and
it's slightly cheaper.

tonsofpcs
08-30-2003, 04:44 PM
where is the scsi controller?

Jim Capillo
08-30-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by phareous
Oh one more thing...do you guys think two 15" LCD would be sufficient? There seems to be a price jump to 17" LCD.

I bought 2 MAG 17" on sale for around $350 each. They work great.

PIZAZZ
08-31-2003, 05:51 PM
phareous

Check your PM box. I just sent you a neat little tidbit of info.

tmon
09-01-2003, 05:23 PM
I thought Toaster CG didn't work with AMD (non-opteron) systems anymore? Or just not very well?