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View Full Version : Sick 3D drawing tool: Rhonda



adamredwoods
07-27-2009, 04:55 PM
Can we expect this in LW 9.6.1? :D

http://www.todayandtomorrow.net/2009/07/23/rhonda/

cresshead
07-27-2009, 06:58 PM
doesn't make a poly/nurbs surface...probably no export either...
nice vid but no tangible app just yet..

if there's enough people who think it might be a cool idea i'd expect it to appear in blender in a year or so!

Mr Rid
07-27-2009, 09:18 PM
Actually, Takeo igarashi took the sketch modeling idea further back in '03 with Smooth Teddy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrHdaWTyu0I free to download and play with.
http://www-ui.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~takeo/java/smoothteddy/index.html

Teddy was written in '99.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2H35SlLmUA&feature=related

All his interface demos are genius.
http://www-ui.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~takeo/index.html
His 'spatial/non-linear keyframing' concept has been adopted by Daz' Puppeteer.

I think the cloth manipulation demo (also free to play with) is the most unfriggin believable, from '02 (download the avi)-
http://www-ui.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~takeo/research/cloth/index.html
75725

I am a big advocate of 3D interfaces needing to be much more intuitive for artists. I see the problem is that techy, left brains are the ones suited to make the tools but they think within more mathematical construct terms that turn out interfaces that are unintuitive to the right-brain artists. Somewhere on Igarashi's site (cant find it now) I recall there was a demo of a 6 year old, with no computer experience who was able to model a basic cartoon elephant in about 10 minutes. I dont know why these innovative interface concepts take so long to influence developers of commercial software. I remember being blown away the first time I sat down with Poser and was able to just click around, generate, modify, animate, render and export a model without having to read a single word of documentation, because it had such an utterly intuitive interface.

ShapeShop-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyJUG2VSvqw
FiberMesh-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0XGkS7zebo&feature=related
FreeForm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwgGAcd02PI&feature=related
75726

cresshead
07-27-2009, 10:10 PM
zbrush 4 me ole chap...tis da fewcha ya ere..

Mr Rid
07-28-2009, 12:14 AM
zbrush 4 me ole chap...tis da fewcha ya ere..

Have not used myself. But I read so many comments about how difficult and counterintuitive it is. My point is about more traditional artists who are not too tech savvy. They are the ones who tend to come up with the most interesting uses for the software, but most 3D tools are just too alien to them. Like I have a talented art director friend who owns Modo and Zbrush but he can not figure them out so they just sit unused. I originally learned LW with his license that he also never picked up. But he loves SketchUp because it is intuitive, and he uses it all the time to design exacting sets and props. My brother is a brilliant artist who can barely figure out his email. He is always asking me to do simple Photoshop tasks for him, and I tried to show him how to use it but it is too technical for his brain (I dont blame him, I dont like Adobe interfaces). These people need interfaces that operate in a more organic, tactile, untuitive way. I hope developers would take some cue from these types of interface examples and it would only make the software that much more accessible for commercial users as well.

I see more artists gravitate to things like Poser/Daz because they are much easier to express ideas with, and consequently I see far more expressive or evocative renders in Poser Daz galleries (amidst the glut of mediocrity consequent to accessibility) than in LW's gallery where renders tend to be more technical in nature due to the presiding nature of the tool (and dont anyone even think about knocking Poser here).

My brain operates somewhere halfway between tech and organic. I struggle with some interfaces (After Effects is too baffling as are LW nodes, yet Fusion makes perfect sense), and expressions and scripting are right out. I would rather animate everything with a joystick and voice commands.

safetyman
07-28-2009, 07:16 AM
Mr. Rid hit the nail on the head. Give artists an intuitive, friendly interface and the creative juices can flow much more easily. That being said, a user-friendly tool doesn't make one an artist -- there are tons of horrendously bad renders in the Poser/Daz galleries. But the point is that those 2 tools and others like it allow people to experiment much easier than a lot of the high-end systems due to their accessability, and the fact that the majority of the Poser/Daz crowd don't have to model things from scratch and can concentrate on the "art" or the creative side of things. And I imagine cost has a lot to do with it (Daz|Studio is free, therefore it allows more people to experiment, for example). I'm not knocking Poser or Daz, because I use them both; put the right tools in the right hands and you can find some real artists out there who normally wouldn't have even tried.

cresshead
07-28-2009, 09:03 AM
re zbrush i find it on the whole very artist friendly, sure i had a very anti view on the u.i. before i tried it...i held off buying it for a year or 2 actually...but bought zb2 just as zb3 was about to come out..once i'd been thru the digitial tutors zbrush intro vids i found zbrush to be very cool and a lot of fun to use.

Sande
07-28-2009, 09:41 AM
re zbrush i find it on the whole very artist friendly, sure i had a very anti view on the u.i. before i tried it...

I guess ZB's friendliness depends on what you are doing - the basic sculpting and detailing from imported base mesh is a breeze and I really like using ZB then, but artist friendly on the whole... No, IMHO.

There are many things in Zbrush (at least in version 3, dunno about 4) which are just awful hacks and probably some of the worst workflows ever, in any software. Two, in my opinion very important, things I hate the most with ZB are retopology and the process of doing UV's elsewhere and importing the new UV-mapped basemodel back to ZB and then projecting the sculpted detail back on the new base model. It can be done, but the whole process is ridiculous...

cresshead
07-28-2009, 10:49 AM
I guess ZB's friendliness depends on what you are doing - the basic sculpting and detailing from imported base mesh is a breeze and I really like using ZB then, but artist friendly on the whole... No, IMHO.

There are many things in Zbrush (at least in version 3, dunno about 4) which are just awful hacks and probably some of the worst workflows ever, in any software. Two, in my opinion very important, things I hate the most with ZB are retopology and the process of doing UV's elsewhere and importing the new UV-mapped basemodel back to ZB and then projecting the sculpted detail back on the new base model. It can be done, but the whole process is ridiculous...

which is where goZ has reduced the gap to nr zero..
i agree the retopo tools are slow compared to say the graphite tools in 3dsmax2010, uv in zbrush is not great but the automatic onces are okay if your not concerned with an uwrapped mesh for painting in pshop.

cresshead
07-28-2009, 10:52 AM
i hope to see stuff like volume rigging and some of the grease pencil tools appear in othe apps also interactive rendering becoming the norm and not left to 3rd party add ons.

biliousfrog
07-28-2009, 11:45 AM
wow, 3d etch-a-sketch, very useful...I'll file that with the chocolate kettle and Sinclair C5

probiner
07-28-2009, 12:14 PM
Looks preety cool. Drawing wooo hhooo..

Not about modelling yet ^^

gerry_g
07-28-2009, 12:36 PM
All I see is way too many points on way too many curves and a shed load of cleaning up on import, seems once again we're in search of the holly grail......... the free lunch, still I did enjoy singing along to Neil

Mr Rid
07-29-2009, 04:04 AM
All I see is way too many points on way too many curves and a shed load of cleaning up on import, ...

What are you looking at? Thats all you get out of sketch modeling/editing? :stumped:
See how easy it is to make drastic mesh edits with a single click and drag.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMx6yNe23ug&feature=related

Try to model even this simple shape in LW in the same 40 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMx6yNe23ug&feature=related

probiner
07-29-2009, 07:18 AM
Wow nice inputs Mr.Rid

cresshead
07-29-2009, 08:42 AM
and this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G2YSP9Ad_k

also anyone remember hypermatter?
looks like it....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi4BAksjYD4

hypermatter used on the music video bleow using 3dsmax 2 back in 1999
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHFFol-8REI

Mr Rid
07-29-2009, 12:46 PM
...

Try to model even this simple shape in LW in the same 40 seconds.

Doh! Wrong link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XHAsQEafb8

probiner
07-29-2009, 08:14 PM
This is where Topology could kick in.
With the many nurbs and freeform sculpting tools around today i think a better Retopology tools (than Silo or 3D coat) would be breaktrough for any 3D modeling application.

This is where a softwere using topology concepts could make a huge difference today. It would be tremendous if you could generate Meshes from 3dCoat Voxel Sculpting or Nurbs by:

-Placing 3 and 5 Edge Poles (defines circular areas and bumps, key loops, Holes first i think)
-Add/Delete Fill Loops (increasing detail)
-Slide (placing Fill loops in the right place)

And with this you kinda box modeled without starting with a box, by starting with the form you wanted, organizing the mesh flow and then adding edge loops for detail.

FreeForm Shape or Nurbs > Topology Tool > Subdivided Polygonal Mesh

This is actually modelling. Get the Shape > Built the Mesh for the Shape

gerry_g
07-30-2009, 04:13 AM
The re-topo trick with the pen line looked fine and dandy though what this would do to your uv's I dread to think. What I was trying to get at was that just about every quick fix tool out there seems to offer better global control at the expense of basic control over verts and polys, even things like nurbs are guilty of this where you get better filleting but denser meshes, or ZBrush where again faster and easier construction leads to equally dense mesh problems

geo_n
07-30-2009, 11:36 AM
http://www.curvy3d.com/ try the demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiB92eTYsxQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIOA84UywQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unNMU3kms2A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/user/ytc3d
http://www.curvy3d.com/jellyvideo.html

hopefully andrew will make similar function in 3dc after finishing nurbs.

BlueApple
07-30-2009, 02:00 PM
Doh! Wrong link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XHAsQEafb8

In the dolphin-drawing video I have a hard time understanding how they took the silhouette information and generated a dolphin mesh with a long narrow beak, flat tail, and round body. Were they holding CTRL while drawing the tail portion telling the software to make that portion of the mesh flat when extruded or something? Is this real software, or an animated demo of what somebody wants?