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View Full Version : need help with alpha channel graphic put on fx-surface



mishaTA
07-06-2009, 01:52 AM
Hi, everybody!!
it' s necessary to put animated graphic with alpha on fx-video surface.
And now i have a truble with it thinking whether it's realy possible.
Here's a picture with my shot.
Please, give me any advice about it.

billmi
07-06-2009, 10:21 AM
Aura can create a LiveSet with alpha on the FX channel, LightWave cannot.

joseburgos
07-06-2009, 10:32 AM
You can not pass the alpha channel in LiveSet and you can only use LiveMatte on one input at a time.
So this image you supplied is a mock up of what you want it to look like with the graph, I assume, animated over the wall of your LiveSet?
For me, this would be too busy a image and would make focusing on the animated graph difficult.
That said, if you frame the Lightwave camera to fit full screen in the proper aspect ratio, the sets background where the FX plane lays by making the FX plane wireframe (for easy viewing of what is behind it), then render this as one frame to make a single image. You could then take the animated graph into another program and use this rendered image as the background to overlay the animated graph. Save this and use it in the FX bus and fake the look of the animated graph over the virtual set environment.
This is very tricky since the angle of the camera is critical for proper perspective of the background.
I think it can work although I have never done this.

Good luck,

joseburgos
07-06-2009, 10:42 AM
Aura can create a LiveSet with alpha on the FX channel, LightWave cannot.

That never works for me which is use a DDR to feed the FX bus that has an alpha channel. The alpha never passes through to reveal the background of the LiveSet where the FX is.
You saying you can make this work and if so, clue me in as I have tried since the begining to make that work and have failed.

SBowie
07-06-2009, 11:43 AM
Works fine here, Josť - just built a quick LiveSet to test that it hadn't gotten busted somehow. My example was a simple FX-derived PIP over the Program row Switcher input, but it worked as expected.

(It's probably some simple setup issue. Just phone me if you want to kick it around for a couple minutes.)

joseburgos
07-06-2009, 12:11 PM
I made a simple gradient background layer. On top of that a fullscreen liveset layer named input. Then I added a new layer and dropped a 400 pixel width liveset texture.
Before I saved out the LiveSet, I enable livematte on the input. The warps are on complex but should not matter.
I launch VT[5] and add two DDR's. I use one for the input and livematte the greenscreen and select the new LiveSet to be used on it. I then load a avi animation with alpha channel into the 2nd DDR and select it on the FX bus.
The alpha channel does not work to display what is behind it :(

If I use the same DDR that has the avi with alpha in the DSK keyer, it overlays perfectly.

What am I doing wrong?

SBowie
07-06-2009, 12:34 PM
OK, in your image, I'm assuming:


the DDR displaying Rex is selected on the Program row
the crouching warrior image is selected on the FX row.
and that the larger warrior image results from displaying the FX row using Overlay


This would mean that the PiP at upper left is drawn from the FX row, and that you built it with LiveMatte enabled.

If all of this is true, then the only thing I can think of that you could possibly have crossed up is that you are applying the LiveSet to the wrong DDR in Input Setup. If, for example, the warrior is in DDR1, you should be applying the LiveSet to DDR2.

(If your setup is different than I've assumed, I need more detail.)

joseburgos
07-06-2009, 12:56 PM
All true except no LiveMatte on FX just on Input. The LiveSet is applied to the DDR that has Rex with LiveMatte enabled. The DDR that has the Marine does not have LiveMatte enabled nor can it use LiveMatte because it was not enabled in Aura. The Rex is selected on the main bus and the Marine is selected on the FX bus.

The alpha only works when I use it in the DSK. The Aura project is only three layers. Bottom is gradient, middle is input and top is FX. LiveSet generator is set to enable LiveMatte on input only and warp now all set to simple.

SBowie
07-06-2009, 01:12 PM
The DDR that has the Marine does not have LiveMatte enabled nor can it use LiveMatte because it was not enabled in Aura.Perhaps I am misunderstanding your intention - but, if you want LiveMatte to function in the PiP (so the bg shows through where it is currently black), you must enable the LiveMatte switch for FX in the LiveSet Generator plugin ... and. of course, LiveMatte must be enabled for that DDR in Input Setup.

SBowie
07-06-2009, 01:22 PM
Hang on a sec - just realized you're using alpha, not LiveMatte - doing a quick check, brb.

joseburgos
07-06-2009, 01:28 PM
Correct Alpha. I was always under the impression that you can not pass an alpha channel through a LiveSet.

SBowie
07-06-2009, 01:42 PM
Aah, right, right. Just to be 100% specific, since there's a remote chance it might help the poster, you can embed a still graphic directly in a LiveSet with alpha, of course - but you're completely correct that the alpha of a file in a DDR is lost on passing through a LiveSet.

I was actually thinking in terms of LiveMatte up above, though. This does work, though not as suitable as an alpha for some things. (Perhaps I could be forgiven in that I spent all morning working on Overlay in TC XD300, which has abilities beyond what TC can currently do.) Sorry for the confusion, all mine.

p.s. - I'm not sure, but it looks like the goal of the original question might have been to put the FX channel into a LiveSet with transparency (as if to imitate projection on glass),which is not quite the same thing. If so, that could be done without an alpha channel, by simply dropping the opacity of the FX input in the LiveSet.

joseburgos
07-06-2009, 02:03 PM
Yeah sure XD ;)
Dropping the transparency would lower everything though. The post processing of the graph animation may work as I described at the beginning.

Man you and Bill had me going for a while,

SBowie
07-06-2009, 02:13 PM
'Swhy I said to phone me - sometimes it's just easier than all this typing. ;)

mishaTA
07-07-2009, 02:43 AM
very interesting!!! I'm comprehending all of this discussion.
And how can i download Aura??

SBowie
07-07-2009, 05:56 AM
very interesting!!! I'm comprehending all of this discussion. And how can i download Aura??Aura is not currently on the market. You might find a standalone copy on eBay, or similar - or you could pick up a used VT (which includes Aura) for a pretty reasonable price and get a whole raft of cool things in the process.

joseburgos
07-07-2009, 06:38 AM
very interesting!!! I'm comprehending all of this discussion.
And how can i download Aura??

You can not as it only comes with VT[5].

billmi
07-07-2009, 09:24 AM
And yes, to clarify, by alpha, I was referring to the alpha channel that is created by LiveMatte on the fly, not alpha that's embedded in a clip playing on the DDR.

theStreamDotTV
09-15-2009, 05:40 PM
I'm just trying to make my own custom picture in picture frame with Tricaster STUDIO.

Can live set constructor do this? I need to apply the live set picture in picture to one input, then i need to specify what input is controlled by the FX button.

clearly there's not enough interface with live set constructor to do this, so what are my options without access to a VT5 and not being able to purchase aura?

My rep told me I could customize all of these items right in the system.

SBowie
09-16-2009, 08:50 AM
clearly there's not enough interface with live set constructor to do this, so what are my options without access to a VT5 and not being able to purchase aura?Without Aura, or a VT with Aura, your only other alternative is LightWave.

Personally, if you intend to do much of this, I still think the best course might be to buy a second-hand VT. Setting aside any other use (there are lots), just sticking the card in an empty PCI slot in any old system could get you both Aura and LW (you'd have to update the LW version to use the LW LiveSet plugin, but you'd qualify for a cheap update).

Sorry I don't have a better answer right now.

PIZAZZ
09-16-2009, 10:01 AM
Without Aura, or a VT with Aura, your only other alternative is LightWave.

Personally, if you intend to do much of this, I still think the best course might be to buy a second-hand VT. Setting aside any other use (there are lots), just sticking the card in an empty PCI slot in any old system could get you both Aura and LW (you'd have to update the LW version to use the LW LiveSet plugin, but you'd qualify for a cheap update).

Sorry I don't have a better answer right now.

I have a better answer... :) Actually it is the same answer I guess.

I have 3 different VT demos looking for new homes. You will be shocked at the prices and you will be able to create all you want then.

theStreamDotTV
09-17-2009, 12:27 AM
Without buying any more hardware... is there a software I can just buy to do what I want? Clearly, my NewTek rep mislead me by letting me know I could do this, but leaving out the part about the extra software/hardware that's required... but not included.

I looked into buying Lightwave but it's just not in the budget now.

What about a simple picture in picture with no graphical design? For example, I'd just like to take Camera A and place it in the lower left hand corner of Camera B.

I've been playing around but can't seem to find out how to do this in even a no frills appearance.

theStreamDotTV
09-17-2009, 02:36 AM
Ok, i found a few transitions that when left half-way, give me the effect i'm looking for picture in picture wise. a nifty touch too i guess is that you can cut preview and program sources in mid transition.

it still seems like this isn't the best way to achieve a picture in picture. seems like cheating.

SBowie
09-17-2009, 07:05 AM
I expect that if you post a molkup showing exactly what you want, someone might well do it for you and post it here as a favour ...