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Thread: Bring back the diffuse slot

  1. #1
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    Bring back the diffuse slot

    I want to be able to plug in AO, procedurals etc in to that slot to mess with the surface without messing with my underlying albedo or resorting to composites. Especially as there is no undo! so you will loose changes to values altered in the nodes and surfaces when searching for "the look".

    its really handy for stylized stuff too, now things are less flexible and you have to play by the rules instead of being able to break them. Insert matirx meme here

    I already put in a FR but posting here to see if anyone else GAS

    thanks

  2. #2
    I'll say it:
    No; learn what's been given.
    You can fake it in another way. Learn that.

    The renderer, as has been presented, is a new path, a new paradigm. Let go of the old, learn the new.

    Or easier, use 2015. It's always available for "the old way".
    Robert

  3. #3
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    I will make new TrueArt's Node Library with everything that has been removed..

    I want to be able to plug in AO,
    If you want entire scene AO get Global Materials 2018 http://globalmaterials.trueart.eu
    add Standard Material, set luminosity 100%, the everything else 0%,
    plug Tools > Occlusion to Color in Standard Material,
    set Environment Color to White. Like this:


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Sensei; 01-12-2018 at 05:02 AM.
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  4. #4

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    I want to be able to plug in AO, procedurals etc in to that slot to mess with the surface without messing with my underlying albedo or resorting to composites. Especially as there is no undo! so you will loose changes to values altered in the nodes and surfaces when searching for "the look".

    its really handy for stylized stuff too, now things are less flexible and you have to play by the rules instead of being able to break them. Insert matirx meme here

    I already put in a FR but posting here to see if anyone else GAS

    thanks
    The concept of the Diffuse slot transposed to the Principle BSDF shader and PBR rendering is that your "Diffuse map" acted simultaneously as a Mask *and* another Material with different characteristics partially occluding - sit on top - your original Material (your Diffuse map previously embedded the mask and some part of the other Material characteristics, which was far less flexible than the new approach).

    For instance, if you used a "Diffuse Map" to more or less simulate a dusty surface, then now with the new approach, simply create a new material "Dust" and mix it with your original Material through some mask (your original diffuse map or any map, a procedural texture, a weight map, etc..).

    It is a bit more work but as you can see this is much more powerful and flexible, actually.
    guy rabiller | radfac founder/ceo | raa.tel | French Lightwavers & Studios List

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnCommonGrafx View Post
    I'll say it:
    No; learn what's been given.
    You can fake it in another way. Learn that.

    The renderer, as has been presented, is a new path, a new paradigm. Let go of the old, learn the new.

    Or easier, use 2015. It's always available for "the old way".
    Robert
    I hate comments like this. this is what I hear - "hey I'm fine, my workflow isn't impacted, everything's perfect, there can't be any improvement to the software, screw your workflow buddy!" I say that with respect and no offence meant.

    maybe you don't get what I am looking to do or why i want to do it. If we followed this path there would be no Dpont nodes and filters for a start, cos, they aren't needed, right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    I will make new TrueArt's Node Library with everything that has been removed..



    If you want entire scene AO get Global Materials 2018 http://globalmaterials.trueart.eu
    add Standard Material, set luminosity 100%, the everything else 0%,
    plug Tools > Occlusion to Color in Standard Material,
    set Environment Color to White. Like this:
    yeah, I've been teetering on getting it but I am not sure I can take a surface input and globally override that part of all surfaces, like in shadermiester. Is that possible?
    Last edited by gar26lw; 01-12-2018 at 05:26 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by grabiller View Post
    The concept of the Diffuse slot transposed to the Principle BSDF shader and PBR rendering is that your "Diffuse map" acted simultaneously as a Mask *and* another Material with different characteristics partially occluding - sit on top - your original Material (your Diffuse map previously embedded the mask and some part of the other Material characteristics, which was far less flexible than the new approach).

    For instance, if you used a "Diffuse Map" to more or less simulate a dusty surface, then now with the new approach, simply create a new material "Dust" and mix it with your original Material through some mask (your original diffuse map or any map, a procedural texture, a weight map, etc..).

    It is a bit more work but as you can see this is much more powerful and flexible, actually.
    ok thanks I will give that a go and see how it works out. thanks for the tip

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    yeah, I've been teetering on getting it but I am not sure I can take a surface input and globally override that part of all surfaecs, like in shadermiester. Is that possible?
    If you want to override just one surface, or one object, you don't use Spread Global Materials tool, but manually add "intercepting node" to the surfaces that you're interested in. After that only they will show up in global Node Editor. and the rest will be controlled by LW normal node editors.
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  9. #9
    Well, I tell ya,
    Actually your history is incorrect. Without Lightwave, there would be no dpont material to be had as we know it. He has creative juices such that we really don't know what he does in his life or whether we already enjoy the fruits of his labor. But I digress.

    I have two names on here, this one and Robert@ISD. You may need to augment your "attitudinal hearing": it's not serving you well.


    The comment was delivered to be heard as such, "There's a lot more being offered with the new system. Don't be so quick to dismiss it. It really has everything you want and more once you get to grips with it.
    Give it a shot, Friend. Let's Wave!"


    It's been three plus years we've waited for this. I waited a lifetime to see Lightwave .9; it was so much to learn I went back to Imagine. I know that every iteration of software can and needs improvement, as well that I have to learn/unlearn some things to make way for the new. As the saying goes, "Don't be a Luddite!" So, I endeavor and encourage you not to be either.

    Enjoy your day.
    Robert

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnCommonGrafx View Post
    "There's a lot more being offered with the new system. Don't be so quick to dismiss it. It really has everything you want and more once you get to grips with it.
    Give it a shot, Friend. Let's Wave!"
    Robert, he cleared stated AO. So he basically wants to plug Occlusion output to Diffuse Shading input in Make Material and plug such material to surface. To have AO pass. You never used AO in your scenes? That's the way you do it, to have AO in material.

    Now workflow requires clearing the all Standard Materials settings, setting Luminosity to 100%, and plugging AO to Color.
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  11. #11
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Now workflow requires clearing the all Standard Materials settings, setting Luminosity to 100%, and plugging AO to Color.
    No it doesnt, you can create a custom buffer.
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  12. #12
    Super Member CaptainMarlowe's Avatar
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    Nice ! Thanks for the tip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    No it doesnt, you can create a custom buffer.
    yes i had a crack at that and it’s good but you then need a way to comp the render and it doesn’t support that. node filters good for that. personally i preferred the shader override as it would give a bit more fidelity.

    one thing regarding occlusion. miss the squared falloff and such from dp ao. possible with node network?
    Last edited by gar26lw; 01-12-2018 at 08:06 AM.

  14. #14
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    When I am rendering AO, I want backdrop color to be solid white, to not have anti-aliasing between object's edge and environment..


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  15. #15
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    So... set your backdrop colour to white. The fact that the BG appears black in the buffer itself is of no consequence. If you just rendered a AO surface (not buffer) against a white BG, and used the alpha to cut away the BG, you'd have the same result as the buffer method.
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