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Thread: TC Multiview as output

  1. #1
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    TC Multiview as output

    Hi,

    Is it ok to use second screen as additional HDMI output via multiview feature? How about video/audio sync in this case?

    Dmitry

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    Hi Dmitry,

    Which TriCaster model do you have?

    In general, any of the feeds coming from the graphics card will have "computer" signal timing versus video timing, like 60.0 fps versus the 59.94 of video, so you may at times see some kind of rolling horizontal line moving top to bottom. Faint, but there. Or other oddities. And those outputs don't carry sound, but I believe the "sync" to TriCaster sound should not be any different than the actual video outputs. The graphics (multiview) output should be fine for feeding a projector for instance.

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
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    Hi Jeff,

    I don't have Tricaster yet but my friend have tested it on TC1 and told me that video via Multiview output on second screen about 2 frames ahead of audio. Is it correct or hi just did something wrong?

    Dmitry

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    I've not actually tested a MultiView output for audio sync myself. I believe there are many factors which are going to affect a/v sync on any TriCaster. For example, did your friend's test use a video playing in a DDR? Or was it using external audio and video sources? Did audio come embedded in the SDI video, or was it an analog source? If the latter, one often needs to use Audio Delay in TriCaster audio mixer to match up analog audio with digital video. How was audio monitored during your friend's test? The HDMI display itself can add delay to the video being displayed in which case the audio would seem early then. In the TV display menu, using GAME mode (if offered) can minimize latency in the monitor.

    Again, this may be a simple case of adding Audio Delay in TriCaster. How is the sync on an SDI output? Curious is that was tested to compare to HDMI, or if the HDMI is only option looked at. Check with headphones?

    You can get an SDI to HDMI converter for under $50 these days and there are 4 SDI outputs on a TC1, so do you really need to use a MultiView output at all or was that just for convenience of getting HDMI?

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Jeff Pulera
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    Hi Jeff,

    I don't have Tricaster yet but my friend have tested it on TC1 and told me that video via Multiview output on second screen about 2 frames ahead of audio. Is it correct or hi just did something wrong?

    Dmitry
    The Multiviewer output is computer display and not “true” HDMI video out. Also it does not have audio.
    So curious what audio are they referring too because when I watch videos on my multivewer, and monitor audio from my analog master output, the audio and video are in sync. If it was not, the producer and director would have complained.
    Wondering what they mean by there comment to you but back to the original question, no I would not use one of the multivewer outputs. Use one of the SDI and convert it with something like a Decimator.
    Jose Burgos
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPulera View Post
    Hi Dmitry,

    Which TriCaster model do you have?

    In general, any of the feeds coming from the graphics card will have "computer" signal timing versus video timing, like 60.0 fps versus the 59.94 of video, so you may at times see some kind of rolling horizontal line moving top to bottom. Faint, but there. Or other oddities. And those outputs don't carry sound, but I believe the "sync" to TriCaster sound should not be any different than the actual video outputs. The graphics (multiview) output should be fine for feeding a projector for instance.

    Thanks

    Jeff
    Exactly, very good description Jeff
    Jose Burgos
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  7. #7
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    Hi,

    Today we did tests together. We put BBC HD audio sync file ( https://archive.org/download/BBCHDAu...ync%20test.mp4 ) to DDR player and output it to NDI, SDI and Multiview. NDI and SDI absolutely in sync but Multiview at least 2 frames ahead of audio. I don't think that 60.0 fps versus the 59.94 can give 2 frames delay.

    Dmitry

  8. #8
    LiveSet Making Machine joseburgos's Avatar
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    I'll run some test using same clip and see what my results are
    Jose Burgos
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddv2005 View Post
    Hi,

    Today we did tests together. We put BBC HD audio sync file ( https://archive.org/download/BBCHDAu...ync%20test.mp4 ) to DDR player and output it to NDI, SDI and Multiview. NDI and SDI absolutely in sync but Multiview at least 2 frames ahead of audio. I don't think that 60.0 fps versus the 59.94 can give 2 frames delay.

    Dmitry
    The TC1 is supposed to have only 1.5 frames delay, according to the specs. But if it does NOT have any delay on the Multiview outputs, wouldn't that make it perfect for IMAG where you would be using house mix anyhow?

  10. #10
    LiveSet Making Machine joseburgos's Avatar
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    Dmitry,
    After I ran my test, I checked the BBC test file and found out it is 25fps.
    I mention only that I tested using 1080i.
    SDI and NDI embedded audio is in sync
    Audio from analog out to a speaker watching on SDI to my eyes is in sync
    Audio from analog out to a speaker watching NDI output to my eyes seems very close, so close that I had to raise the volume on my laptop to hear the echo. So I would say possibly 1 frames although this was just a test of my own for NDI audio UN-Embedded.
    Analog audio out to speaker and watching on the interface to me seemed in sync
    Analog audio out to speaker and watching multiviewer 2 or 3 (HDMI and Display) seems in sync or off by a frame but honestly, it’s wicked hard to determine, for me that is, watching the BBC clip

    I will do my normal test when I next have time with a person on camera talking and then clapping to see if I can better judge the multiviewer but unofficial test using the 25fps BBC test movie file, it’s posdible the multiviewer are off by a frame or two.

    Gordon,
    I would not use multiviewers as video outputs unless you are somehow ok with the Scan line you will see in pans of the scene as well as other technical issues Jeff detailed.
    Audio delay you may be referring too is amount of delay for audio entering/Input into TriCaster versus that same audio exiting the TruCaster. Due to the TriCaster processing, this occurs but can be reduced with external genlocking in all external video inputs and low tatency outputs. Consumer TV has a high latency compared to broadcast monitor as an example.

    I feel more testing is needed as well as making sure all things are equal like test input video at correct fps, understanding computer display outputs may be set to 60hrz (for us in NTSC) where as the TriCaster video outputs are not add the refresh rate of the monitor you are using on multiviewer. In other words, is it the TriCaster GPU output or the monitor or both.
    I don’t know but I’ll end with, just watching it as I did, I looked like it was in sync or very close
    Jose Burgos
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  11. #11
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    What is a multiviewer output?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriCityStorm View Post
    What is a multiviewer output?
    Like all TriCasters since the XD300 I believe, have a Multiviewer output. The TC1 has two of these.
    It’s use and configuration can be found in the user manual 3.6.2 SUPPLEMENTAL VIDEO OUTPUTS.
    Jose Burgos
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