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Thread: Using an M/E as a switcher

  1. #1
    Registered User bbailey's Avatar
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    Using an M/E as a switcher

    I have an 860 with a control surface. When doing football games I typically punch up the camera I want and reserve my transition as a loaded replay transition for slo-mo. This has always worked well except when I have a scorebug on screen. I need to be able to put the scorebug graphic on screen whenever I want using a pre determined loaded transition effect. Using my CS, it's just a matter of punching the DSK1 take or auto button to do the job. But when the scorebug is on screen and I transition to a replay the scorebug would normally stay on screen, which doesn't look good to me. Or I can remove it by activating the BKGND and DSK1 buttons on the main T bar. This works except usually the selected transition for the DSK1 doesn't look right when combined with the Replay Transition.

    So, I had an idea at season's end and I've played around with it today and it looks the way I want it to look. By loading the DSK1 scorebug in the overlay of ME1 and switching cameras by punching on the A row of the ME and selecting ME1 on my PGM row with my replay selection on my PVW row, the replay transition will wipe the live shot + scorebug revealing the slo-mo replay.

    So far...So Good.

    I want to be able to use a transition OR a dissolve to remove the scorebug from the ME itself when I'm cutting to the ref, for instance, or to a crowd shot. I can see on my TC860's computer screen where I can select Take or Auto by mouse clicking it in the ME section but I would think I should be able to also do it using my CS. I've messed with it most of the afternoon but I can't find it on my CS. Any ideas?
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  2. #2
    Grizzled Veteran jcupp's Avatar
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    If I recall correctly, you would use the M/E delegate button to assign the T-Bar along with the Take and Auto buttons to the M/E. Depending on the vintage of your CS the button may be disguised as the Fade to black button.
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  3. #3
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    Possibly Shift + Key Take?

    If not, you could hit the ME button - bottom right - so your transition section is controlling the ME. Then the DSK Auto buttons should control them for the ME layers instead of the main layers.
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    Not sure if this would help at all but this is how I deal with scorebugs and replays...

    I have a TC 460 AEv2 and I have the bug in DSK1. I have a launchpad button that plays an animation store graphic in a buffer on DSK4 and I have a macro set so that after X number of frames (when the swipe is full screen), the background and DSK1 both cut so when the swipe reveals the bug isn't there. Then when I hit the button again, it will go back to the previewed shot with the bug back in. The only downside(s) to doing it like this for me at least is that there is no sound on the transition and sometimes the rookies that are running the TC don't fully understand what the macro does

  5. #5
    Registered User bbailey's Avatar
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    Well, in going to a replay using the ME setup is easy. It's the transitioning of the scorebug on and off while still on a shot, without having to re-set anything, is the problem. I mean, there are work arounds such as...the ME has the camera shot with the scorebug overlay, so I cut to a different shot on my PGM row and the new shot doesn't show the scorebug. The scorebug reappears once I punch the ME on the PGM row. But if I'm holding a shot and the scorebug is up and I'd like to transition it off of the shot without changing the transition type nor delegation for the T bar, I'm stuck.

    Basically, I have the ability to transition between shots within the ME but can't seem to find a way to use a dissolve or transition to remove the Key (scorebug) within the ME.

    Maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing. The work around works. It's just that the ME doesn't really have all the capability the main switcher has. The main switcher allows for cuts, dissolves or transitions to remove DSK1 and DSK2. It's very handy on my CS.
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  6. #6
    Registered User bbailey's Avatar
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    I was aware of the ability of the ME/FTB button re-assigment ability. But the problem is in having to switch back and forth as the transition for the replay is in the PGM/PRV rows. I was just hoping I was overlooking something. Thanks for your responses.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Stream's Avatar
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    I just started using our 460, but what about using 2 M/E's one with the Bug and one without and then you could transition between the two.
    Or having 2 different M/E's of say M/E 1 in the storage all of the way to the left in the M/E row and switching between the two.
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  8. #8
    Registered User bbailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stream View Post
    I just started using our 460, but what about using 2 M/E's one with the Bug and one without and then you could transition between the two.
    Or having 2 different M/E's of say M/E 1 in the storage all of the way to the left in the M/E row and switching between the two.
    Humm...that's worth testing out. I'd just need to be sure to be on the same camera. That would, however, require me to change the transition from the replay to a dissolve. But that wouldn't be difficult. I'll let you know how it goes.

    There may be a better way of doing the whole thing. This past two seasons, I used the TriCaster pre-built replay transitions. There are two I can use for football. At the end of the season I built one with my own logo that I'll probably use next season unless I sell the replay sponsorship as I have done twice in the past. Anyway, since I'm direct punching the cameras, I can leave the T-Bar set for the replay transition. Once we get to half time when I prefer to dissolve between cameras, I can punch up dissolve for the T-Bar because there is a "Fade" and a "Transition" button just to the left of the T-Bar. DSK1, where my scorebug resides, also allows me to have a preset transition in place with its auto or Take buttons.

    My logo animates onto the screen as do the two TriCaster pre-built replay transitions. By using the DSK1 Auto button, I can bring up the scorebug at will. While holding the scorebug on screen and transitioning to a replay, the scorebug stays unless I add the DSK 1 Button to the BKGND Button at the T-Bar which causes the DSK1's transition, the one I programed, to activate and remove the scorebug at the same time the replay transition appears. But, depending on the transition I select for the DSK1, it may look funny. Putting the DSK1 scorebug up in an ME solves that problem The replay transition, whether it's mine or one of the two pre-built ones, wipes the DSK1 off the screen along with the live shot, perfectly. The only problem is the loss of the ability to use a dissolve or transition to lose the scorebug independently of the replay without punching several buttons which have to be reversed when I want the scorebug back independently of the replay.

    I've never used macros. There may be a way to do it using a macro...I don't really know. Any way, you guys have definitely given me food for thought. Thanks.
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  9. #9
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    Macros would be a big help here - well worth investing the time to learn how to use them. You'll be able to take a seemingly complex series of timed steps and make it all happen with a single key press, repeatable and reliably!

    As for using two different M/Es and how to keep the selected sources matching between the two, just use the color grouping option so that sources mirror one another in both M/Es. If you haven't used that before, in main switcher or an M/E, you will have the "A" and "B" icons at left of switcher source buttons. Click the arrow next to A or B and you get a drop-down for color coding. For example, if the "A" rows in M/E 1 and M/E 2 are both set to RED, then those rows will always mirror one another. Press "3" in M/E 2, and M/E 1 also changes to input 3. It's magic!

    An example of using this would be a football game that is on live cable TV and live web streamed at same time, but with different sponsor logos keyed in. Set A and B rows in an M/E to mirror main PROG/PREV rows, and use different sponsor logo in the M/E version. With color coding to lock the switching together, video inputs are switched identically for both programs, but the outputs have different logos on them.

    Thanks

    Jeff
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  10. #10
    Registered User bbailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPulera View Post
    Macros would be a big help here - well worth investing the time to learn how to use them. You'll be able to take a seemingly complex series of timed steps and make it all happen with a single key press, repeatable and reliably!

    As for using two different M/Es and how to keep the selected sources matching between the two, just use the color grouping option so that sources mirror one another in both M/Es. If you haven't used that before, in main switcher or an M/E, you will have the "A" and "B" icons at left of switcher source buttons. Click the arrow next to A or B and you get a drop-down for color coding. For example, if the "A" rows in M/E 1 and M/E 2 are both set to RED, then those rows will always mirror one another. Press "3" in M/E 2, and M/E 1 also changes to input 3. It's magic!

    An example of using this would be a football game that is on live cable TV and live web streamed at same time, but with different sponsor logos keyed in. Set A and B rows in an M/E to mirror main PROG/PREV rows, and use different sponsor logo in the M/E version. With color coding to lock the switching together, video inputs are switched identically for both programs, but the outputs have different logos on them.

    Thanks

    Jeff
    That sounds cool!

    I feel kinda dumb. I discovered the exact thing I was looking for. I found that if I mouse-click the bar just to the right of the T-Bar on the ME row on my TC computer interface monitor that has the word "Key", the bar highlights Blue and the Key-Take and Key-Auto buttons on my CS right next to the ME row become active. Up to that point they were not lit and did nothing. This allowed me to activate the overlay I had selected above the ME row.

    Whatever is on the ME row can be transitioned to a replay by using the Auto button in the PGM T-Bar. Now only two buttons on my CS are needed to do all transitions for the Football Game.

    I must have tried clicking on about everything on the computer screen and pushed almost every button on the CS and had not ever clicked the bar with the word "Key" on it. Amazing. As far as I can see, the "KEY" can't be selected from the CS but once selected, the CS can control the transition of the "Key".

    Thanks guys.
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  11. #11
    Grizzled Veteran jcupp's Avatar
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    Maybe I don't understand the problem. You want to switch inputs in an M/E and be able to bring the M/Es overlay in and both out using the CS? Correct?

    Set up the M/E with the score bug in the overlay
    Take the M/E to program
    Delegate the T-Bar to the M/E using the M/E | FTB button on the CS. This over-rides the normal T-Bar delegates.

    If you want to control both the a to b switch along with the overlay then:
    Press both the BKG and the DSK1 buttons in the T-Bar delegate. This delegtes the T-Bar to both the M/E's transitions AND the M/E's overlay.
    Press Auto (or pull the T-Bar) on the CS

    The M/E should transition from A to B AND the overlay should transition

    If you want to control the overlay independently of BKG
    Leave just the Bkg delegate on.
    Use the DSK 1/2 Take and Auto buttons (in the T-Bar area of the CS).

    In either case you can use the Fade and Trans buttons on the CS to toggle between a fade and the currently selected transition as desired.

    Looks like you discoverd this while I was verifying what I was saying actually works!
    Last edited by jcupp; 12-19-2017 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Cross post
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  12. #12
    LiveSet Making Machine joseburgos's Avatar
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    As Jeff Pulera mentioned earlier, macros is an efficient way to get this done. Now I have seen people switching using the ME bus to get around this as you are trying to do but the problem I have is I reserve my ME's for boxes or other preset shots or comp's.
    Creating a macro allows you to choose a transition you pre-loaded, loose the DSK and then AUTO whatever you have on preview as an example. I would normally have a macro for regular replay transition complete with sound, one for alternate transition with sound and yet another with like a flash transition (short to get back to live quicker). This always leaves the ME's open to do more, allow me to switch using the normal preview program bus and basically have an efficient work flow as well as one I can pass on to another OP easily. Then I also have a "cover up" macro that basically uses DSK4 to play an animation from a DDR if sound is needed or from a Animated Buffer, if no audio is needed when going to commercial break via master control
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  13. #13
    Registered User bbailey's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone. Lots of really good stuff here.

    "If you want to control both the a to b switch along with the overlay then:
    Press both the BKG and the DSK1 buttons in the T-Bar delegate. This delegtes the T-Bar to both the M/E's transitions AND the M/E's overlay.
    Press Auto (or pull the T-Bar) on the CS "

    This is how I did it all this season but I didn't like the way it looked as compared to doing it with an ME's being transitioned to my slo-mo replay. That way everything in the ME was covered with the transition's animation when the replay was wiped on. Doing the transition with BKG and DSK1 buttons active in the T-Bar delegate added a transition of choice for the DSK (Score Bug) that didn't necessarily fit well with the replay animation, especially since the DSK was layered above both the PGM, PVW (replay) and transition animation. The ME way solves that by putting the replay animation above the score bug and the "live" and replay scenes.
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