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Thread: LW 2018 Shader System

  1. #1
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    LW 2018 Shader System

    The LW2018 webpage has a blurb about the Surface Editor and Material nodes. It says "The Surface Editor has been overhauled for the new shading system with powerful node-based materials under the hood that are presented with a familiar interface." Does that mean that as the user adjusts parameters in the surface editor there is a node tree being assembled and connected in the background that can then be accessed and further manipulated if one presses the "Edit Node Graph" button? If so that would be totally cool!!! More info from devs and beta testers please!

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    Super Member CaptainMarlowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snosrap View Post
    the lw2018 webpage has a blurb about the surface editor and material nodes. It says "the surface editor has been overhauled for the new shading system with powerful node-based materials under the hood that are presented with a familiar interface." does that mean that as the user adjusts parameters in the surface editor there is a node tree being assembled and connected in the background that can then be accessed and further manipulated if one presses the "edit node graph" button? If so that would be totally cool!!! More info from devs and beta testers please!
    qfa

  3. #3
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Not really, no. However all shaders are nodes now (like material nodes), and the interfaces for those materials are present on the editor main panel, so you can add skin, or conductor, or whatever, and adjust their standard parameters without having to open the node editor. If you want to add textures, gradients, or whatever to whichever attribute, you still set those up manually.
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  4. #4
    Oliver Hotz has a script in his upcoming OD toolset which will automatically make connections if you have multiple surfaces selected and say you wanted change all of the surfaces at once

    https://vimeo.com/213788810

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    are shaders still allowed or are they now required to be nodes?

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    Valiant NewTeKnight Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    are shaders still allowed or are they now required to be nodes?
    Shaders had to die as part of this massive change over, they simply don't work in this new system.
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    yeah, mass editing of common material and node parameters looks clunky.

    what you want is to be able to select a bunch of surfaces, press edit nodes and have the node graph only display common nodes used across all surfaces. this way you could use the same bump procedural, for instance, across multiple surfaces.

    i think there needs to also be the concept of scene wide surfaces that appear at the top of the surface editor and allow for mass surface applications. for instance you could push a procedural to every bump channel in the scene.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Shaders had to die as part of this massive change over, they simply don't work in this new system.
    will there be a legacy node, that would allow the application of an old shader?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Oliver Hotz has a script in his upcoming OD toolset which will automatically make connections if you have multiple surfaces selected and say you wanted change all of the surfaces at once

    https://vimeo.com/213788810
    i think oliver’s tool needs a way to show names so you don’t need to find and remember. if possible.

  8. #8
    Valiant NewTeKnight Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snosrap View Post
    The LW2018 webpage has a blurb about the Surface Editor and Material nodes. It says "The Surface Editor has been overhauled for the new shading system with powerful node-based materials under the hood that are presented with a familiar interface."

    Does that mean that as the user adjusts parameters in the surface editor there is a node tree being assembled and connected in the background that can then be accessed and further manipulated if one presses the "Edit Node Graph" button? If so that would be totally cool!!! More info from devs and beta testers please!
    No, it means all materials / shading are now nodes, but you can edit them on the base level from the main Surface Editor, see attached.

    That said, being able to build / navigate nodes from that top level GUI is something that we would like to do.

    Surface Editor.mov
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  9. #9
    Valiant NewTeKnight Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    yeah, mass editing of common material and node parameters looks clunky.
    You can still mass-edit same type materials, in fact you can select different materials and have them all show up on the top level, just not nodes connected into any of those material's parameters.

    The video I attached in the previous post will make more sense.
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  10. #10
    Valiant NewTeKnight Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gar26lw View Post
    will there be a legacy node, that would allow the application of an old shader?
    There is a standard material that acts pretty much as the previous LW standard material.

    Like I said, shaders simply don't work at all in this new system.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snosrap View Post
    The LW2018 webpage has a blurb about the Surface Editor and Material nodes. It says "The Surface Editor has been overhauled for the new shading system with powerful node-based materials under the hood that are presented with a familiar interface." Does that mean that as the user adjusts parameters in the surface editor there is a node tree being assembled and connected in the background that can then be accessed and further manipulated if one presses the "Edit Node Graph" button? If so that would be totally cool!!! More info from devs and beta testers please!
    When you will open Surface Editor (on the left), you will see button "Edit Node Graph", after pressing it new Node Editor (on the right) will appear.
    Whatever material is plugged to Material input (far right of Node Editor tree) is exposed to user in the main Surface Editor panel.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    After connecting different material node,
    entire Surface Editor panel is updated to contain material-specific GUI.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    From inside of TrueArt's Global Materials 2018 http://globalmaterials.trueart.eu you can control the all surfaces of the all objects..

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Sensei; 12-13-2017 at 05:21 PM.
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    @sensei - I think your global materials are going to be a prerequisite for 2018 users.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    No, it means all materials / shading are now nodes, but you can edit them on the base level from the main Surface Editor, see attached.

    That said, being able to build / navigate nodes from that top level GUI is something that we would like to do.

    Surface Editor.mov
    thanks. My first thought is that something like the shaders tab would be handy but instead of the old shaders, you can create a "shader" or "shaders" from the nodes and have it apply as an override like the old shaders system did. basically, global surface overrides.

    little vids like this are great, thanks for making it; I like the multi select display, cheers to whoever pushed for that


    Can you filter/sort surfaces by scene and object, like in old lightwave? If not, any chance of that option back in please

  14. #14
    Super Member Snosrap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    No, it means all materials / shading are now nodes, but you can edit them on the base level from the main Surface Editor, see attached.

    That said, being able to build / navigate nodes from that top level GUI is something that we would like to do.
    Very nice. Is there a way to override every surface (temporarily) in the render panel maybe to do a clay rendering on every object in the scene?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snosrap View Post
    Is there a way to override every surface (temporarily) in the render panel maybe to do a clay rendering on every object in the scene?
    That's what Global Materials do. If it would be built-in LW, there would be no sense making it..


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    Last edited by Sensei; 12-13-2017 at 09:53 PM.
    LightWave Plugins
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