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Thread: Photorealism and expanding the dynamic range in LW???

  1. #31
    Difficult to say without knowing more about your scene but maybe fog is not noticeable due to the lack of contrast in clouds. Just in case, for increasing contrast in Hypervoxels, you might want to try a gradient in luminosity channel, increase shadows strength or/and lower the value of ambient color.

    Changes have been added sequentially in the above samples.



    Gerardo

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelHill View Post
    Principally a legacy thing. before V10 LW functioned as if using the current linear preset (which is the same as assuming YOU are handling all values correctly in linear, as previously described in this thread). Thus, loading of pre-10 scenes would all look wrong if they defaulted over the sRGB, so the default was mainly just a backwards similar thing.
    Let's not assume that all 3d renderings are are intended for realism. The 3d artist may want to do a cartoony rendering or aim for 2d printing of their works. That would means that post colour correction would need to be done for whatever format that's intended. But this is just me being petty about a single point...

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerardstrada View Post
    Difficult to say without knowing more about your scene but maybe fog is not noticeable due to the lack of contrast in clouds. Just in case, for increasing contrast in Hypervoxels, you might want to try a gradient in luminosity channel, increase shadows strength or/and lower the value of ambient color.

    Changes have been added sequentially in the above samples.



    Gerardo

    Kinda strange actually - the fog effect is noticable stronger with the sRGB default; it's just ignored by the hypervoxels. Now, I can change each cloud's properties for a still, but it doesn't work as I'm doing moving the camera for 2000 frames among them.
    Granted, I'm using LW11s native distance fog - maybe this will work better in v2018.
    - Ignorance is bliss...

  4. #34
    Amerelium, in case you are using Sprites instead of Volumes, perhaps density or opacity settings are too high (about more than 100%). Guess you might want to try also volumetric primitives in v2018.

    Revanto, with the new LW version it might be better to assume a "common" color flow (which implies also to assume most common viewing environment) instead of just keep CS settings without making assumptions as up to now. Think this would be more convenient for most of users with new LW version because no matter how accurate and correct internal algorithms may be, physically based rendering can not be really achieved without proper color flow. So in order to approximate a decent physically plausible result out of the box, some generic assumptions will need to be taken by the package. As long as these settings can be changed and customized by the user later, results can be further improved. This implies also that at some point in time, LW CS system (and users) will need to mess with other color aspects other than just tone curve reproductions.

    Proper color flow and PBR can be also more convenient for cartoonish rendering:

    (at least it wouldn't hurt).

    As for printing, by considering that 3D LUTs supported by LightWave (and by any other LUT-based CM system for that matter) are not able to handle CMYK color data anyway, people working for print media are not really able to preview in CMYK with CS panel solely. In such case the SG_CCTools can be added to the pipe. Where we can preview differences between RGB:


    and CMYK printing:


    and with more advanced setups even how it would look like on paper:


    Some introduction to the topic in this thread:

    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....=1#post1243952

    People using custom color flows, need to supplement/complement native CS tools with additional third-party solutions or CM systems and in such cases they don't really care what the default preset is because they are going to change it anyway.



    Gerardo

  5. #35
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    gerardo, are you switching to lw2018 and if so, do the cc tools still work?

  6. #36
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  7. #37
    Yeah, I did finally upgrade to LW2018 so I will be able to work with a better colour system. Still, since I am more of a modeler by nature, I still have a long way to go when it comes to the subject of lights, cameras and colours. I was born with vision impairments so my sense of colours, etc... is not the same as most peoples'.

    Thanks for the info, Gerardo.

    Cheers,
    Revanto
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  8. #38
    Hello Revanto, person who opened the CMYK thread has also a vision impairment. Respects to people like you and her! Really encouraging!!

    Pixym, videos about the subject are always appreciated. Just consider the sRGB preset in that video has picked and lights colors set up as linear. The correct settings for those parameters is 2.2 gamma, but since CS panel has not the option, the most near setting would be sRGB instead.

    Gar26lw, not right now. I'll switch eventually, some things look great! I think PBR is the step into the right direction, but it needs to concentrate now into providing enough flexibility within that framework. Nice thing about LightWave is precisely its flexibility, but right now there's a lot third-party tools and functionality lost. For example, you asked in another thread how to get this type of specular result:


    The setup is as simple as this one:


    We can get it by remodeling a Phong specular shading (DP LightGroup) with DP Curve function. With new "Principled" material we can get also a similar result:


    But let's say we want to go a bit further and reach more realism by simulating better chrome specular, which has a reddish peak in the top of the highlights curve (like shown in the Disney paper the Principled shader is based on).


    In v2015.3 we just add a gradient and colorize the specular shading:


    If we want to simulate an alloy with let's say steel (which have also uneven specular color response) we can get something like this with the same method:


    Principled shader offers us something like this:


    In v2015 we are able to tweak parameters before and after shaders due to their outputs work with scalar, color and vector tools, but very few tools work with material outputs. So I think we still need some options (parameters or independent tools) in order to tweak materials further. Guess that colorizing the diffuse or specular results (an operation that doesn't break PBR rules) might be possible with a tool similar to Flatten Material, which converts a material result into color output. Then we could modify that with common LW nodes and use another tool to convert back to material again. This could be useful also for some 2.5D tasks (so common in VFX) that need to mess with shading properties separately. Other interesting parameter would be a function input to model a more accurate custom fresnel curve instead of using the generic Schlick's approximation from Disney paper. Sound like features requests to me

    The Principled material paper shared by Disney was the first (basic) attempt so its implementation was (and "should") be subject of improvements to provide more flexibility within PBR boundaries. In Blender for example, the Principled shader has a Base color (which affects diffuse and specular) but you have also an independent Metallic color, which can be different than non-metallic materials. Additionally, we could have independent color entries for specular and sheen color so the mixing of each material version could be performed within the Principled shader.

    As for the SG_CCTools, as far as I can see the old available version of Picker and Filter still works, but not the Node. A lot of other third-party tools doesn't work yet neither. Hope they provide the proper SDK access to third-party developers so that we can keep the same functionality we have in previous versions.



    Gerardo

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by gerardstrada View Post
    Hello Revanto, person who opened the CMYK thread has also a vision impairment. Respects to people like you and her! Really encouraging!!
    Nah, it's not really a big deal. I was born that way and have learned to deal with it. It just means that my renders might look a little different. Slightly off, maybe.

    Again, thanks for your help.

    Cheers,
    Revanto
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  10. #40
    It's Lightwave, *****es! Digital Hermit's Avatar
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    Ok, I am glad I did a search and found this. As you can tell, I have an aversion to making "new threads" especially ones already covered.

    So after watching the video and going through the responses, is there a ToE "Theory of Everything" setting, relating to Lightwave 2018? I mean that is the calibrated goal, photorealism, the Holy Grail of 3D, correct? Everything else, derived from that standard, would be an artistic esthetic.
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  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Hermit View Post
    is there a ToE "Theory of Everything" setting, relating to Lightwave 2018? I mean that is the calibrated goal, photorealism, the Holy Grail of 3D, correct? Everything else, derived from that standard, would be an artistic esthetic.
    short answer: If you are referring punctually to color management aspect, there's no magic buttons, but your best bet for photorealism perception in LW2018 is the sRGB preset.

    Long answer: if you are referring to a color management setting in LW2018 with native CS system, not, there's no way to strictly reach physically based results for "everything" with that. And there are several other tools sold as "PBR" which are not really PBR due precisely to the same reason. And not referring to the fact that LW doesn't render in spectral data since you can get very very close to results calculated with spectral values by properly managing color in RGB model; and you can get also incorrect physically based results by calculating render in spectral values but without proper color management. Limitation with native LW CS system (and any other similar solution for that matter) is that it does not cover all the necessary aspects to specify color. And there's no way of constructing a proper color flow without it. That's why I said previously that LW CS system (and users) will need to "mess" with other color aspects other than just curve reproductions, eventually.



    Gerardo

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