Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Can HDCP compatible HDMI be ingested by TC1 - Methods? Limitations?

  1. #1
    UniSon Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    775

    Can HDCP compatible HDMI be ingested by TC1 - Methods? Limitations?

    As some of you know, I have been working with a company that is handling the upgrades to our video system from a TCXD 850 to a new system. I like the TC1 and is my preference only because I know NewTek products inside and out and that makes me prejudice towards them. As a result I have been pushing hard for a TC1 + NC1 + 2 stripe control surface. The company given the responsibility to come up with minimum specifications have been very accommodating to my desire for a newer TriCaster system.

    However, the minimum specifications for a new switcher system were put together without regard nor favor for any particular system and one of the minimum specs is for 3 x HDMI HDCP compatible inputs PLUS 2 configurable HDMI HDCP outputs.
    1. What do I recommend for getting 3 HDMI (HDCP capatible) inputs into the TC1 with NC1?
    2. Are the two HDMI outputs on the TC1 AND the NC1, HDCP compatible?

    Note: The two HDMI out signals will be sent to two (2) different views on the three (3) very large IMAG displays behind the stage. The three HDMI input signals will be coming from Mac computers which I have been told: "Apple devices are notorious for needing HDCP"

    Also note: The TC1 user manual does NOT have the characters "HDCP" within, leading us to believe that playback of HDCP content from a Mac computer would not show up on the output of the Tricaster. Is this the experience of other TC1 users?
    Last edited by Gordon; 11-22-2017 at 10:16 PM.

  2. #2
    SDI (which are the inputs on the TC1 and NC1 IO) have no concept of HDCP. Therefore is isn't possible for any kind of HDCP information to be passed to the source device directly from the TriCaster (or any SDI based device for that matter).

    This means it all comes down to the the converter, however pretty much no converter is able to support HDCP since they need the HDCP keys. If they can't send back the HDCP response, then the source device will not send any signal.

    I say most converters. As I understand the Bright Eye 83-H, does support HDCP.
    https://www.ensembledesigns.com/prod...dcp-solutions/

    As for the outputs, the TC1 has SDI. SDI doesn't support HDCP output. I don't see why this is important on the output side, any device will play non-HDCP content and if you use the Bright Eye to remove it from the source, it is no longer needed.
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

  3. #3
    UniSon Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    775
    Thank you very much for your answers and the link to ensemble design convertors.

    Your explaination is so simple and logical, "SDI has no concept of HDCP", I'm embarassed to have not thought about it. Just convert HDMI Out from the Mac, (or whatever), to SDI using a Decimator or similar device, so the video becomes just another source input without encumbrances.

    Hmmm, maybe I don't understand after all. Why would the ensemble designs say that the BrightEye converts HDMI to SDI with HDCP if SDI has no concept of HDCP? How would this be different than a Decimator MD-HX which doesn't specifically says it supports HDCP?
    Last edited by Gordon; 11-23-2017 at 02:33 AM.

  4. #4
    The problem is if the device REQUIRES HDCP to send a signal, if that is the case, then you will get nothing because the device will refuse to send any signal. That is what the BrightEye unit is able to do, send the HDCP key so the sending device is happy and pushes out the signal. Once the BrightEye gets the HDMI signal, it can convert to SDI and after that you can continue to use the signal anywhere else.

    What kind of application is running on the Mac? You can always use NDI Scan Converter to grab the computer screen and make it available via NDI over the network. This method will bypass HDCP, since it isn't using HDMI.
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

  5. #5
    UniSon Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    775
    Wow, that information could be huge. I wonder if it's the Mac computers that probably don't work with non-HDCP compliant devices in the chain. Our existing Mac has no problem sending ProPresenter FOH and Stage view screens from the Thunderbolt ports to VGA cables and then to monitors.

    But maybe it's because we are NOT using HDCP material?

  6. #6
    On computers it can be the playback software that calls for HDCP material. For example, most movie playback software (like BluRay playback or something like iTunes) would require the HDCP be active. Normally you won't have HDCP on when just viewing normal computer content (like ProPresenter).

    Typically HDCP is only something you have to deal with when it is DVD/BluRay or live television. Signals from camera or computer applications shouldn't have HDCP requirements.
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

  7. #7
    UniSon Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    775
    Hi Kane;
    The BrightEye, (and apparently BMD as well), are HDCP compliant in that they will NOT convert a HDMI to SDI if the HDMI has HDCP.

    From BrightEye's manual:
    • In compliance with the licensing restrictions on HDCP encrypted material, BrightEye 83 and 83-F
      cannot convert encrypted signals to SDI form.
    • Blackmagic HDMI to SDI converters are HDCP compliant, in that, if there is HDCP on the HDMI input then they will not output a signal, they are doing exactly what they're supposed to do.


    However, I did find this interesting converter, HDMI to 3G SDI Converter 1080p60 that has: " full support for HDCP, so you can transmit your DRM protected video to the SDI network." (Note that it doesn't say HDCP compliant.)

  8. #8
    UniSon Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    775
    I wonder if NewTek's HDMI SPARK is HDCP compatible or HDCP compliant?

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Racine
    Posts
    952
    I've read that some of the cheap HDMI splitters (1 in/2 out) will remove HDCP, and then you could go HDMI > SDI. But I was also thinking like Kane, why not just use NDI from the Macs and avoid all the cabling and converters to start with?

    Thanks
    Jeff Pulera
    Streaming Broadcast Solutions - Newtek Elite

    TriCasters: Mini with AE, TC1
    Camera: Sony PMW-X70 4K
    Controllers: All variety of XKeys
    PTZ: PTZ Optics 20x SDI

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    70
    HDCP is a worthless menace. Break it with cheap HDMI splitters and do what you please.

    Pretty sure these cheap HDMI to 3G SDI adapters defeat HDCP natively too: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...converter.html
    TriCaster TC1 #1
    TriCaster TC1 #2
    NC1 Studio I/O Module
    TriCaster Mini SDI Advanced #1
    TriCaster Mini SDI Advanced #2
    Video Nerd

  11. #11
    UniSon Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by JPulera View Post
    I've read that some of the cheap HDMI splitters (1 in/2 out) will remove HDCP, and then you could go HDMI > SDI. But I was also thinking like Kane, why not just use NDI from the Macs and avoid all the cabling and converters to start with?
    The problem with NDI, is that you are asking the speaker to install another app on his Mac. One that he knows nothing about. If it were me, I wouldn't want to be installing apps. (Although I would probably put 'Deep Freeze' on and not have to worry. Install whatever they want. Do my presentation. Reboot and it's gone.)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •