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Thread: Why have you stuck with LW all this time!

  1. #61
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    Thanks hrgiger.

  2. #62
    Registered User Over's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLexx View Post
    Hi Over, to my eye the model looks like some sort of cockpit. There appears to be a window with a curved frame. Just inside the curve of the frame are a couple of bits with triangles in them when all the rest appear rectangle. Was just curious really, the model looks good to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrgiger View Post
    Likely he's attaching the curved part of the window frame and merging them down into triangles or triangle shaped quads to avoid a large ngon there. It shouldn't present any type of problem.
    Is as he say. Is something like this:

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    Last edited by Over; 09-08-2017 at 05:05 PM.

  3. #63
    Registered User Over's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedpup View Post
    What? Difficult questions to answer? Sorry, hard to tell from one single screenshot. But as an example, I see several places in that picture where it would be natural to use instances. So if you did not, and then so unequivocally say you can remodel something faster in Modeller, it is more a matter of you not utilizing Modos features and tools to its fullest (like hrgiger said).
    Dude, you´re guessing too much. There´s nothing difficult to answer, you just ask too many questions, hence "wow". You´re focusing on only one side of the 3D creation spectrum.
    Last edited by Over; 09-08-2017 at 05:18 PM.

  4. #64
    That may be. However you enter into a discussion that is technical what are you expecting?

    Sure there are preferences between software for personal reasons. But those are not professional considerarions. A professional discussion of software puts bias asside and talks specifics of tools workflows and of course faster more efficient and flexible ways to do things.

  5. #65

    still, hope this doesn't turn into a "versus" thread... we have plenty of those...
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Goodrich View Post
    For me, it’s familiarity also. I know Lightwave reasonably well. As a hobbyist I also dabble in other programs and to be honest I think they all kind of suck. Everyone that I’ve tried seems to find a way to frustrate me. I like Lghtwave and then run into stupid issues. The most recent one is audio support. I’m on a Mac and well… it sucks. I also wanted a UI picker for Character animation and without being able to script it, it doesn’t exist. Maya- powerful cluttered interface and steep learning curve. Modo- seems ok but it just doesn’t really click with me. Blender- Besides the weird interface (I’m trying Brett’s LW to Blender course). I also find stupid stuff in there as well. Add a sub D modifier on your object. Guess what? You can’t remove it or toggle it on and off, wtf? Z-Brush- Another weird interface. However, I actually like it even though if I don’t use it for a while I get to have to learn it all over again. 3D coat- I’ve really only used it for ReTopology and the mirroring doesn’t lock on the x axis. I have to go and fix it after importing in another program. Again, wtf? And the ability to interchange information between programs and continue to work on things after is a bit of joke. In my world (Audio post production) you can import and export OMF’s, AAF’s, EDL’s and edit information in and out of most programs. It’s not perfect but it sure is a lot better than most of the 3d world. My other problem is, as a hobby I don’t have a lot of time to dig into the programs as much as I’d like. My opinion only, YMMV.
    For disabling Blender's modifier

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  7. #67
    Registered User Over's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    That may be. However you enter into a discussion that is technical what are you expecting?

    Sure there are preferences between software for personal reasons. But those are not professional considerarions. A professional discussion of software puts bias asside and talks specifics of tools workflows and of course faster more efficient and flexible ways to do things.
    And I have to say that you´re mostly right, but I already told that "to me" there´s nothing faster than Modeler, I have always expressed it as "my opinion". Also, if I was the only one that found Wickedpup posts as somehow agressive, then I apologize.

    Regarding a professional discussion of software, I found LW way to acces the mesh (vertex, edges, polys) way faster than anything else, I found Modeler faster in respect to aligning and adjusting, I also found boolean and drills operation faster, I found the layers approach (and always available layers) to be optimal for my type of work. I have always been a Max guy, but now I realize how painful is to model in Max when compared to LW or Modo for the matter, and again, you can call that an opinion, but that opinion is as valid as yours or anyone else. When I found LW and even without knowing too much of it I started a search for an awesome app to model, hence why I also got into C4D and Modo (paid a year subscription of both) and so far, for ME, LW Modeler+LWCAD pulled ahead of them, so, after knowing that, I think that the possibility of me being biased is kind of hard. Maybe after I use Modo for some time, that opinion may change, that´s a possibility.

  8. #68
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    still, hope this doesn't turn into a "versus" thread... we have plenty of those...
    Exactly. The OP simply asked why do you use LightWave? There are many other threads for discussing other products.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Over View Post
    And I have to say that you´re mostly right, but I already told that "to me" there´s nothing faster than Modeler, I have always expressed it as "my opinion". Also, if I was the only one that found Wickedpup posts as somehow agressive, then I apologize.

    Regarding a professional discussion of software, I found LW way to acces the mesh (vertex, edges, polys) way faster than anything else, I found Modeler faster in respect to aligning and adjusting, I also found boolean and drills operation faster, I found the layers approach (and always available layers) to be optimal for my type of work. I have always been a Max guy, but now I realize how painful is to model in Max when compared to LW or Modo for the matter, and again, you can call that an opinion, but that opinion is as valid as yours or anyone else. When I found LW and even without knowing too much of it I started a search for an awesome app to model, hence why I also got into C4D and Modo (paid a year subscription of both) and so far, for ME, LW Modeler+LWCAD pulled ahead of them, so, after knowing that, I think that the possibility of me being biased is kind of hard. Maybe after I use Modo for some time, that opinion may change, that´s a possibility.
    Yeah. Agree. I was not really following all of the posts. I just kind of jumped in. I think the main point for me was that it seemed like someplace efficiency and use of tools came into the discussion.

    I went the other way. I also have done a lot of cockpit kind of work and tons of hard surface stuff for simulation/games.

    I can't even imagine doing that stuff in Modeler. A few basic reasons. But all of them purely practical. I modeled for years and years in Modeler. First thing I ever used. It is a great program. It works. It is fine.

    But other workflows are just too advanced to go back to the stone age. An opinion yes. But backed by a few technical facts.

    That is more or less what I was getting at. We all have opinions. But you can't debate facts. You either have instancing to work with in your modeling environment or you don't. Or you have work planes or you don't. A non destructive modeling stack or you don't. And so on.

    The number of things I can do in Blender that are just so much easier and so much faster and so much more flexible and non destructive it is a hands down no brainer - never to model in LightWave again until it gets tools like this.

    Maya pretty good too. But only for select things like retopo. Which debate or not, is still better than anything else. Opinion? Yes and no. But mine is based on what tools it has and how fast it is. Best tools for hand retopo. Hands down.

    Modo I think is even better as a general modeler for most things - an opinon because I have not used it. But I see things I'd love to have access to. Things that would make things go faster. We did at my studio check out the retopo functions and it failed compared to Maya so we dropped it.

    In my line of work it pays off to use tools and workflows that reduce work.

    Modeler just requires too much work and has too much of a destructive workflow to survive a client-driven iteration-based workflow. And that is where it breaks down.

    The phrase "work smarter not harder" is the motto here.

    And while I could have the opinion I like Modeler better. That is great for me. All the way up to the point that the client asks for another path for the roller coaster to ride on which requires a new model for the tracks and a new animation path.

    If it was LightWave, it would be, well, you have to be kidding right?

    In Blender it is like. OK. Adjust the curve. Instant new animation path, instant new track, export, done.

    And yes. This happened over the last 2 months. This exact thing. With a client who is paying, even for the iterations. An essential part of the workflow with them.

    In LightWave while there would be certain workarounds to achieve some kind of similar iteration using Layout and modeler. Not nearly the same nor nearly as fast and efficient. Not an opinion. A fact. Based on tools it has and does not have.

    So to the point of the thread. Why have you stuck with LightWave?

    Do I have to answer that with a straight face when it comes to modeling and doing real work for real clients?

    Rendering is now history as well.

    But LightWave is a tool. I do use it from time to time. I like keeping my hands in because I want to have good access the tools that are coming and not be completely stale when that happens.

    Recently I was using good old school texturing to bake some images to bring back into Blender.
    Last edited by Surrealist.; 09-08-2017 at 09:59 PM.

  10. #70
    Super Member Kryslin's Avatar
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    Been a Lightwave User since 2009 (9.6). I started with AutoCAD 11 (last Dos version), moved to POV and Moray, then Rhino, then Maya. For mechanical stuff, Rhino is still pretty good. Trying to model in Maya was not very intuitive, and yes, I had a copy of Blender at the time I switched over to Lightwave ( I still struggle with Blender's UI). Lightwave, to me, is a lot more intuitive to use than Maya, even with the split between Modeler and Layout. I can get the results I'm looking for quite quickly. Plus, if I don't have a tool to do something, I can either get a 3rd party plugin, or write my own (and write them, I have...). In the end, it's what gets the job done for me, whether it's furniture design visualization, character modeling and animation, or technical FX like hair and fur or dynamics... I can get presentable results within a reasonable amount of time.

    Plus, Lightwave's a steal at the offered price.
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  11. #71
    Registered User Wickedpup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    But other workflows are just too advanced to go back to the stone age. An opinion yes. But backed by a few technical facts.

    That is more or less what I was getting at. We all have opinions. But you can't debate facts. You either have instancing to work with in your modeling environment or you don't. Or you have work planes or you don't. A non destructive modeling stack or you don't. And so on.

    The number of things I can do in Blender that are just so much easier and so much faster and so much more flexible and non destructive it is a hands down no brainer - never to model in LightWave again until it gets tools like this.

    Maya pretty good too. But only for select things like retopo. Which debate or not, is still better than anything else. Opinion? Yes and no. But mine is based on what tools it has and how fast it is. Best tools for hand retopo. Hands down.

    Modo I think is even better as a general modeler for most things - an opinon because I have not used it. But I see things I'd love to have access to. Things that would make things go faster. We did at my studio check out the retopo functions and it failed compared to Maya so we dropped it.

    In my line of work it pays off to use tools and workflows that reduce work.

    Modeler just requires too much work and has too much of a destructive workflow to survive a client-driven iteration-based workflow. And that is where it breaks down.
    Over: Think this sums up my point. So when you go "I would not care less if the workflow is destructive or not, with LW I can redo as fast as you rearrange your procedural item in Modo." you are defying facts and simple logic. I could of course talk about Blender like Surrealist does or others but Modo is what was brought up so I kept it to that. You showed a WIP as an example of how well you know Modo after a year. But like I said, if you did not use instances (as an example) then you are not taking advantage of what you have available and your claim is a moot point. And then we haven´t even touched on what stuff like customization brings to the table. Nuff said.

  12. #72
    Registered User Marander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Modeler just requires too much work and has too much of a destructive workflow to survive a client-driven iteration-based workflow. And that is where it breaks down.

    The phrase "work smarter not harder" is the motto here.
    Completely agree!

    - Of course one can work fast in Modeler, but this is no different in most other 3D applications.
    - Maybe Maya is an exception (but it's built for large teams and collaboration, complex setups) as well as Houdini (because it's completely procedural and requires more initial effort)
    - Create a primitive, use hotkey to switch between points, polys and edges, use hotkey to translate, bevel, extrude use hotkeys to navigate etc., same as in Modeler
    - Yes, in non-destructive workflows you might hit one key more to convert to mesh but c'mon.
    - Creating splines, loft, sweep, lathe, patch, modify the splines later, use them in animation or as guides - well here it already gets nasty with LW.
    - When it gets more complex or you need to have design iterations, most other applications have huge advantages
    - Many long-time LW users compare it with applications they don't know well and state things that are simply not true
    - You can script and develop in every 3D application I know and use.
    - LW requires plugins for basic functionality that don't even come close to native tools in other applications like sculpting (LWBrush), snapping (LWCAD) etc.
    - For me it's about being efficient, using smart and up-to-date tools, but everybody should be happy with his solution

  13. #73

    - Yes, in non-destructive workflows you might hit one key more to convert to mesh but c'mon.
    nope, not gonna C'mon on that one.

    i see this is turning out to be another "versus" thread... that "unsubscribe" button is surely getting closer.

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  14. #74
    I don't remember the title of the thread being "Those who only use LightWave exclusively, tell us why. Insiders club no others allowed" This is the LightWave forums in 2017. More than ever we are made up of people who use multiple software. So if you are prepared to make comments. Be prepared to have them challenged of they don't appear logical.

    I think most of the reasons to stick with LightWave stated by most people are fairy sound. And really it is not too much my business. But if you are making decisions and you want to voice them, and those decisions are not really that sound or reasonable, do your really think it is in anyone's best interest that everyone else just nod and agree?

    I don't. I don't think anyone wins that one.

    With any luck a person should feel challenged to explore more. That would be a good thing. And then there are people wanting to explore things who read these threads.

    Those who know better on certain subjects are just supposed to be quiet?

    And other artists, looking to learn and expand, take nothing away but "Don't do anything. Don't explore. Don't try new software. All is well.

    How is that any good?

    I think people need to get out of their personal shite and look at these forums as a place for artists to share information, be challenged. Challenge others and grow artistically.
    Last edited by Surrealist.; 09-09-2017 at 04:35 AM.

  15. #75

    just voicing the opinion that we have a gazillion "app X can do Y better than app Z" discussions in other threads.

    it was just something i felt personally.

    i think that X vs Z will make this thread derail quite fast, that's all.

    then again, agree, i can see the use of it, until Team A knocks down Team B.

    so, here we go...
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