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Thread: Dante Support

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    Dante Support

    I install and use TriCasters almost exclusively for live events that involve sound systems. I am more often integrating with sound systems that use Dante. The Dante inputs on the TriCaster work well, but in almost every situation I need to have a mix minus output from the TriCaster to avoid feedback. I cannot do this with Dante. I am working on a large project at a sports arena and I need Dante support for the aux outputs as well as the main output. There are 12 Dante transmitters that are not in use. How, or when, can this functionality be made possible?

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    You can get 4 mix minuses out of the TC by using the 4 channels of embedded audio in the SDI outs. You could probably get 8 mix minuses there using both the main and aux outs. Run the SDI to a de-embedder (AJA makes the one I use here) and then assign what channels go to that particular output via the TC's internal routing. We currently use the aux-out SDI to send 4 channels of mix-minus to the outboard console. I agree that using Dante would be f-ing amazeballs for this, but there is currently a way to do it...
    Last edited by dhodlick; 08-03-2017 at 01:17 PM.

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    I know this is a little OT for the sub, but we are getting ready to implement Dante throughout our productions. I just assumed the Aux busses would show up as outputs on the Dante network. Is this not the case?
    E. Lee Dickinson | President
    Advanced Visual Production | sound.lighting.video.design
    www.avprva.com

    Tricaster 850, 460AE, and TC-1
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    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee-AVP View Post
    I know this is a little OT for the sub, but we are getting ready to implement Dante throughout our productions. I just assumed the Aux busses would show up as outputs on the Dante network. Is this not the case?
    Not as completely as some would like Lee.
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
    www.pizazz.com

    Using:
    All models of TriCasters + 3Play, IPSeries
    Panasonic UB300 4k cams
    Tactical Fiber/converters, SDI2NDI converters, NDI-Viewfinder, and NDI2HDMI

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    No, it is not the case. Only the first 4 Dante Transmitters are active and they are just two sets of output 1 left and right. If you want Aux feeds you have to use out 1. I can't get Main and Aux both via Dante. The inputs are fine. You get 16 inputs, but the individual outputs are crucial.

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    Yup, this would make Dante useless for us, too. Thanks for the details.
    E. Lee Dickinson | President
    Advanced Visual Production | sound.lighting.video.design
    www.avprva.com

    Tricaster 850, 460AE, and TC-1
    JVC GY-HM200u, Canon XLH1, Fieldcast and BMD Fiber

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    I'd like to add my support for better dante implementation on the TC1. I think having Dante output support is something many many Tricaster users will greatly benefit from, even if it is only the first four channels like on the 8000. It would make our job a lot easier.

    thanks

    this comes after this forum post I did where I found out there is zero dante output support for TC1: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....rking-properly

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    Quote Originally Posted by stwr View Post
    I'd like to add my support for better dante implementation on the TC1. I think having Dante output support is something many many Tricaster users will greatly benefit from, even if it is only the first four channels like on the 8000. It would make our job a lot easier.

    thanks

    this comes after this forum post I did where I found out there is zero dante output support for TC1: http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....rking-properly
    Interesting information STWR but also very disappointing one. I just asked about Dante in a recent post http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....ighlight=dante and I was wondering why I did not receive any answer.

    I'm planning to integrate Dante audio in a TC1 and so I need all the 4 channels in Aux 1, 2 and 3 to be available on Dante Transmitters to create Mix Minus and also feed a Dante Intercom for IFB's.

    What will be the solution?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miseopoint View Post
    Interesting information STWR but also very disappointing one. I just asked about Dante in a recent post http://forums.newtek.com/showthread....ighlight=dante and I was wondering why I did not receive any answer.

    I'm planning to integrate Dante audio in a TC1 and so I need all the 4 channels in Aux 1, 2 and 3 to be available on Dante Transmitters to create Mix Minus and also feed a Dante Intercom for IFB's.

    What will be the solution?

    Thanks
    For folks building larger scale IP Video and Audio infrastructure, Sienna's upcoming NDI Smart Processing Router will provide linkage between NDI and AES67 which hooks into DANTE.

    The Smart Processing Router aims to fill all those pesky jobs which use a 'glue' box in traditional baseband workflows, like audio embedders, de-embedders, Proc Amps, routers and so on. It also aims to connect NDI workflows into IP intercom systems.

    The Smart Processing Router is a modular software based engine which can be easily configured and expanded to truly enable completely NDI based production and broadcast facilities, migrating from a traditional workflow without jarring the humans too much.

    Smart Processing Router at sienna.tv

    Last edited by livepad; 11-25-2017 at 04:11 PM.

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    Thanks. What is the roadmap for this new module. Will it be possible to access to a Demo Version?

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    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livepad View Post
    For folks building larger scale IP Video and Audio infrastructure, Sienna's upcoming NDI Smart Processing Router will provide linkage between NDI and AES67 which hooks into DANTE.

    The Smart Processing Router aims to fill all those pesky jobs which use a 'glue' box in traditional baseband workflows, like audio embedders, de-embedders, Proc Amps, routers and so on. It also aims to connect NDI workflows into IP intercom systems.

    The Smart Processing Router is a modular software based engine which can be easily configured and expanded to truly enable completely NDI based production and broadcast facilities, migrating from a traditional workflow without jarring the humans too much.

    Smart Processing Router at sienna.tv

    Great Stuff coming from Sienna!! Looks like a fantastic solution to many of our production workflows.
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
    www.pizazz.com

    Using:
    All models of TriCasters + 3Play, IPSeries
    Panasonic UB300 4k cams
    Tactical Fiber/converters, SDI2NDI converters, NDI-Viewfinder, and NDI2HDMI

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    Quote Originally Posted by PIZAZZ View Post
    Great Stuff coming from Sienna!! Looks like a fantastic solution to many of our production workflows.
    Hi,

    Do you ave any idea of the price and the availability?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miseopoint View Post
    Hi,

    Do you ave any idea of the price and the availability?

    Thanks
    Hi Folks.

    Thanks for your enthusiasm for the NDI Smart Processing Router. Let me explain the motivation for this project.

    - All major broadcasters and production facilities are worrying about IP Video and how they can move towards the benefits it offers
    - Most large facilities have yet to form any sort of meaningful strategy for migration to IP. They know its inevitable, but the actual implementation seems unclear.

    Whilst there are a few 'Greenfield' sites built as all-IP, the majority of facilities will need to gradually "migrate" to IP. What does that mean in practice ? Some people assume that they will need to make large disruptive changes in both infrastructure and also end points (devices) with large investment in order to meaningfully move to IP. Understandably, this is a major barrier for those folks who are stuck in a holding pattern on IP.

    However - through our R&D with major broadcasters we have uncovered a solution - which allows for affordable, yet meaningful migration to IP without disruption to existing workflow:

    Basically - the idea is to change the core infrastructure *first* - retaining all the end points and the workflow as they are to begin with. By core infrastructure we mean the signal traffic from open point to another - which usually comprises large numbers of SDI cables running from end points to a central SDI router. This star-configuration for SDI is what we find in all large facilities, and it's that we want to start with - and in doing so we unlock the first benefit of IP.

    So, imagine you want to replace lots of long SDI cables and a central SDI Router. What with ?

    Well - the answer is to flip the architecture on its head and position devices like the NewTek NC/1 all over your facility, as 'decentralised' SDI hubs. Then these are all connected into the existing (or new) Ethernet infrastructure. All your end point SDI devices *STILL* connect via SDI, just like before, but now the signals run from A to B via SDI-NDI(in NC1 #1) over Ethernet and then NDI to SDI (in NC1 #2). Extrapolate this model and now your facility has a decentralised NDI IP Video core infrastructure.



    Next, we need to ensure this new core infrastructure continues to behave the same as before.
    The first challenge is router control - in the traditional SDI router model, there are physical router control panels all over the facility to patch A to B. I know that this model is not strictly necessary with NDI - but its that change which is going to cause confusion to existing workflow - users are not used to 'pull connect to me' models - they are used to Router patching between A and B - so we emulate that world in the Sienna Smart Processing Router with a virtual Probel protocol Router. You register all your ins and outs just like a traditional router - and then the S.P.R provides ProBel protocol routing between all the SDI end points. All your existing Router Panels and Automation continue to do what they did before - all your SDI devices are still SDI - but now we have the basis of an IP Facility at the core.

    Once that is in place, you can *easily* move individual end points from SDI to NDI over time - as an when you are ready. So, your Adobe Premiere systems with AJA cards outputting SDI can move to an NDI plug in. Your signal Ingest points like cameras can move to NDI and eventually your vision mixer. All in a nice calm, organised process - enabled by first getting the core into place without disrupting anything.

    Next, we looked at the other parts of traditional infrastructure which needed replacing (with like for like). In this case we came across the inevitable "Glue Rack" which sits next to the SDI Router in most facilities. Here is where the Proc Amps, Audio Embedders, de-Embedders, aspect ratio converters, up down converters, and so on live.

    So in the Smart Processing Router we have a drag and drop modular *software* engine to emulate all these devices, in an NDI world, so you can patch and Input through a processor and across to an output without really worrying about hardware or physical space. CPU power can be dynamically assigned to the tasks you need today - rather than piling up lots of boxes you might need one in a while.

    So - that is the basic ideology of the Smart Processing Router - and we are certain it is going to become an essential central component of any serious facility migrating to NDI. Being modular, we can add new processing components at any time, and as those demands become clear. Also, its designed to scale across CPUs so for very large facilities it can grow to dynamically spread the load across a number of physical compute boxes.

    In terms of pricing and availability - some parts of the system are already complete - like the ProBel Router Emulator. The core processing engine is almost complete as are some of the first modules - so we hope to begin seeding our early test sites with that soon. This is a core broadcast infrastructure product and will be priced as such in the 4 to 5 figures range for a larger system.

    We may release some of the core processing modules as stand alone products for folks who don't need a complete infrastructure.

    All feedback is welcome, as is a wider discussion on the process of migrating complete facilities to IP

    Hope this is all of interest, Read more at the Smart Processing Router web page.

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