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Thread: Introducing Eevee - Realtime rendering engine for Blender

  1. #46
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vong View Post
    Yes, you can change your key mappings in Blender just fine. The problem is that when you change certain key mappings, it breaks other areas of the software and you won't know about it until you start to use those areas. This is one of the things that is planned to be changed with the 2.8 release.

    As for the vertical tabs, you can't change those. I think there was some discussion on allowing people to change those with the 2.8 update as well, but I can't seem to find those notes right now.

    Yes..but key mappings wasnīt up for discussion (if we are on the same page and you talk about shortcut mappings? that is How I interprete it) I talked about adding your own buttons to some addon that may have been installed and put it where ever you want in the edit menu or your own menu.
    As for vertical tabs..canīt say anything about that..but suspect you are right about that, to bad, you can change that in daz for instance...these kind of vertical lables I simply loath, wish modo didnīt have them either.

  2. #47
    Video Junkie Vong's Avatar
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    My bad, I was just skimming through...

    For adding buttons, you need to use Python, unfortunately.

    And yeah, the vertical tabs cannot be changed, unless you go in and re-program them in the main code. Lots of Blender users b*tched about them also when they first showed up. After using them for some time, you kinda get used to them and don't mind them as much.
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  3. #48
    The only thing realtime rendering does is move the rendering process from post to pre-production. You're still gonna sit there and wait for your computer to calculate stuff, you are just doing it at different parts of the production process.
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  4. #49
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Roye View Post
    The only thing realtime rendering does is move the rendering process from post to pre-production. You're still gonna sit there and wait for your computer to calculate stuff, you are just doing it at different parts of the production process.
    ? Do you mean texture baking? Even taking that into account, rendering out an animated sequence would be far quicker than the traditional final rendering. There's just no comparison. That is why MachPro was conceived years ago as well. Obviously the GPU still does the calculating at the end - just ridiculously fast: realtime or almost realtime.
    Last edited by Rayek; 07-15-2017 at 01:50 PM.
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  5. #50
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vong View Post
    My bad, I was just skimming through...

    For adding buttons, you need to use Python, unfortunately.

    And yeah, the vertical tabs cannot be changed, unless you go in and re-program them in the main code. Lots of Blender users b*tched about them also when they first showed up. After using them for some time, you kinda get used to them and don't mind them as much.
    I think it is bad design having those vertical tabs, purely to try and get more space, I donīt think our human brain firstly off is trained to read like that, and I donīt believe those adapting to it has re-trained their brains to read differently, merely
    accepted and learnt where the tabs are and what they do, for those of us learning to read verticly as a child, that may be different wherever they do that.
    I constantly find myself twitching a bit with the head..which causes strain on my neck.

    That said..it isnīt impossible to read..but you simply do not read it naturally and I would believe that most of us will have more trouble reading it than horizontally...and if the case is as i believe, namely those customed to it are more picking it based on the tabs position and a fast glint to recognize the text, then you could just skip the text and actually replace it with one solid color and different from eachother, and perhaps an icon to differentiate them, there icons actually would make more sense than in the properties panel.
    Well..well.

  6. #51
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    I was in two minds about those vertical tabs as well. But they had to come up with a solution to accommodate all those tools and add-on panels somehow.

    For example, drivers: before the vertical tabs the user was forced to collapse panels all the time to get at the tools, and to keep it organized, at least three-four clicks were required to begin with, and two clicks for a panel change.

    Now it is merely a simple click on the required vertical tab. A definite improvement.

    But I still think Lightwave's tool and tab customization is far superior. Last year I investigated whether it is possible in Python to detect a workspace change, and then dynamically hide/show the panels that are really needed. Unfortunately, while a LOT can be done in Python with the Blender GUI, it doesn't expose workspace change events. So it did not work out.

    I have mentioned this a couple of times in the BlenderArtist forums, and even once to Ton (in person at Vancouver Siggraph last time). In 2.8 workspaces and tool management is separated, which is a good start. Although I still hope to see true panel/tools customization. It was originally in the 2.5 roadmap, but never was implemented (well, in an alpha version, but removed later).
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  7. #52
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayek View Post
    I was in two minds about those vertical tabs as well. But they had to come up with a solution to accommodate all those tools and add-on panels somehow.

    For example, drivers: before the vertical tabs the user was forced to collapse panels all the time to get at the tools, and to keep it organized, at least three-four clicks were required to begin with, and two clicks for a panel change.

    Now it is merely a simple click on the required vertical tab. A definite improvement.

    But I still think Lightwave's tool and tab customization is far superior. Last year I investigated whether it is possible in Python to detect a workspace change, and then dynamically hide/show the panels that are really needed. Unfortunately, while a LOT can be done in Python with the Blender GUI, it doesn't expose workspace change events. So it did not work out.

    I have mentioned this a couple of times in the BlenderArtist forums, and even once to Ton (in person at Vancouver Siggraph last time). In 2.8 workspaces and tool management is separated, which is a good start. Although I still hope to see true panel/tools customization. It was originally in the 2.5 roadmap, but never was implemented (well, in an alpha version, but removed later).

    well..I just canīt see the good of it...thank god I found out how to change such panels in daz, I just hated those verticals...and once I got those back then I felt more at ease to find things, same with modo..maybe a part of why I really do not engage that much in modo...just a little tiny part.

    By the way..for blender 2.78, I just tried switching renderer from cpu to gpu when rendering fire and smoke in blender, so for a division container with 75 div, and smoke high resolution at 1, and rendering a 1280x720 res output at half that resolution was around 42 seconds with cpu, and went down to 12 seconds with cpu, and I just love that I can weight paint in a part on a flying aeroplane, then connect the fluid emission to that vertex group/weight map, and that I also can get fire and smoke in opengl at once, none of that is possible in turbulenceFD wich costs thousands.
    and I noticed strangely enough that the fire and smoke illumination suddenly is slower in Lighwave and turbulenceFD, despite my new machine...must be some sort of setting making it slower, or something in the latest turbulence release, or windows 10 sucking memory or something

    That said, I prefer editing the smoke and fire in turbulenceFD than going nodal with blender.

  8. #53
    @Prometheus. Yeah I stand corrected. Did not realize you could replace interface components with addons. So the interface must be python-based, or at least partially. I did not realize that. Regardless it is a very "hard coded" set up as most people don't play in python. And I don't know squat about coding.

  9. #54
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    @Prometheus. Yeah I stand corrected. Did not realize you could replace interface components with addons. So the interface must be python-based, or at least partially. I did not realize that. Regardless it is a very "hard coded" set up as most people don't play in python. And I don't know squat about coding.
    the whole code of blender is python, doesnīt need installation even, so with python in mind and lightwave python implementation, One should really consider getting in to that I guess.

    And as far as what I refered to doing fire and smoke sims, I said the cuda settings rendered much faster..in fact faster volumetric scattering and absorbtion than using turbulenceFD with illuminate smoke, and I got very decent rendertimes and quite good quality too, well...that was on a smaller container in blender, I then tried scaling the container up ..maybe 150meters x 50mx50m, and that needs more divisions as well, and thatīs when I hit the roof, Cuda error probably couldnīt handle it memory vice, so had to swithc back to cpu render, and that is like 5-6 times longer in cycles preview and probably more in final render, so that isnīt production friendly..if it could deal with the cuda speed render, that would have been great, I guess one could..should try scaling down the scene and items and do the sim, if possible so you can get away with cuda rendering.

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    the whole code of blender is python, doesnīt need installation even, so with python in mind and lightwave python implementation, One should really consider getting in to that I guess.
    Nope. Sorry I am not a code person. But I do know the whole code of Blender is not python. It is way to slow for a 3D App and too many limitations.

    What language is Blender written in?
    C - for Blender's [startup/main-loop/shutdown] and most internal functionality, tools, drawing, GUI and editors.
    C++ - physics, audio, game-engine and Cycles render engine.
    Python - The interface definitions, addons, most format import/export and some tools.

    I just did not realize the interface was in python.

  11. #56
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    Nope. Sorry I am not a code person. But I do know the whole code of Blender is not python. It is way to slow for a 3D App and too many limitations.

    What language is Blender written in?
    C - for Blender's [startup/main-loop/shutdown] and most internal functionality, tools, drawing, GUI and editors.
    C++ - physics, audio, game-engine and Cycles render engine.
    Python - The interface definitions, addons, most format import/export and some tools.

    I just did not realize the interface was in python.

    ARenīt we fooled easy
    I stand corrected as well...
    "Python is used as an internal scripting language for Blender, the majority of the Blender code is in C and C++" (blender wiki)

    I got a bit frustrated the other night, was trying to install a python addon that can do push and pull the similar way as in sketchup, was messing around too long to get it installed, it refused to be recognized, tried to install it directly as py from the provided download link, nada, then directly install from zipfile which usually works, nada..then I got a new link from a helpful user with a python download directly, that one worked, I have come across this happening to some plugins now and then, more than I feel comfortable with..I actually think itīs easier to install plugins in Lighwave, that is actually one of the tools I would need to put in my own button under the standard blender push and pull, I do not want to remap that command and replace it and rename it.

    So both installing plugins and creating your own menus and buttons for them is a mess in blender, as is most menus structure and organization, while itīs completely the opposite in Lightwave...it sort runs like a red thread between these two, what blender does so good, the other is crappy and vice versa.

  12. #57
    lol Yeah. Agree. I have gotten used to it. But yeah. The interface needs a lot of work.

    Now that we have the coding side figured out.... lol

    Actually it is cool that the interface is written in python. Just wish I knew how to make use of it.

  13. #58
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealist. View Post
    lol Yeah. Agree. I have gotten used to it. But yeah. The interface needs a lot of work.

    Now that we have the coding side figured out.... lol

    Actually it is cool that the interface is written in python. Just wish I knew how to make use of it.
    Well hello world is usually where it starts I think, then simply bookmark or download some of the youtube vids out there, both for doing your own menus in blender and some scripting for lightwave, as usally...I suspect it is an foremost interest that leads to the determination of actually putting some effort on it... by setting aside time to do it.

    Smart pills or matrix loading is not a reality option..donīt think so

  14. #59
    hello world

    There. My coding for the day. I have a headache already.

  15. #60
    Registered User Rayek's Avatar
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    Transparency is here!

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