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Thread: Blog post about NPR shading in LW Next

  1. #106
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    jeric_synergy, Hello...
    Don't misunderstand my intentions, I value the Seuss approach, particularly for a graphic novel kind of look. Very strong and reads well, and yes, I have used it selectively.
    I started to just post some examples of what I want to achieve, did a Google search, and found four 'old' threads on the subject, one of which I started and three I participated in all vintage several years ago, and nothing has changed. I went back into some of my simple test files to see if I could now generate the lines I want, and no amount of node tree wrangling was able to create the look??!! This includes a full Lightwave crash every half hour or so, for no particular reason, other than a complex node noodle tree and trying to see the effect of changes in a VPR window. After a couple of hours of no success, I gave up for that day. As stated in this thread and previous ones, I am wanting to create a "hand-drawn" line, which is thinner/lighter on the lit side of all objects and thicker/darker on the 'away' side. It should also be distance/depth variant, lighter/thinner in the distance. I also am trying to couple this with a variable line quality which varies to darker/thicker in the occlusion areas or areas of more tight acute curves. Some of this I can do in Blender!!, but it is a Post Process line, (not on-screen VPR yet) so development gets even slower, making changes, waiting for the render, repeat. Being able to add a Noise channel for somewhat more lively line quality. Overlay this line rendered version in multiply mode, (matte white materials) on top of a color rendered layer which is treated to look more like water color, strengthened with an Occlusion render with slight cross-hatched texture (which I have done successfully and posted in the prior mentioned threads. I recommend anybody to look at the rendering of Hayao Miyazaki (Spirited Away) and Sylvan Chomet (Les Triplettes de Belleville, The Illusionist), Paprika by Satoshi Kon, Your Name, by Makoto Shinkai, and Tekkonkinkreet by Studio 4°C. All excellent examples of lively line in combination with more hand colored textural layers. As an example, here is an illustration by Jason Brubaker from his reMIND book, which I own as inspiration. While I personally find some of his story lines drift theologically for me (Sithrah), his drawings and page layout is totally stunning and excellent. Highly recommend the reMIND book, which you can view online, and also the Sithrah series. He inks up with a Pentel Brush Pen after pencil layout, then builds watercolor flats and fills. Absolutely great stuff and a sincere inspiration for a line rendering style development. If I ever come up with an approximation I will gladly post it.
    http://www.remindblog.com/custom/remind-spread-4/
    Click image for larger version. 

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    An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind... Gandhi/MLKing
    Greater consciousness is worth the effort. Be aware.... so sayest the Animated Fool ~ HARTWORKS www.hartworks.net

  2. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by robertoortiz View Post
    Cool, now add a simple interface in Layout to get the same result and we got a winner.
    The problem with the nodal solution for that issue is that you are asking to build a car engine every time you want to drive a car.
    Ummm...Load From Scene file will take care of that.

  3. #108
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    Here is a preliminary example, with test objects, generated in Blender. I created the objects, colored them, setup a LayerRender Node tree which Output, Diffuse, AO, Shade, Color, Line, and Combined, plus the Vector SVG. These were then composited together. While it fulfills some of the challenges, it misses others. Freestyle line has some great controls, but it doesn't do Intersections well currently, so the over-lapping pipes are an example of where it did not work as needed. It doesn't necessarily follow all of the expectations, but it was fairly easy to get to and the parameters are fairly clear. It is a Post-Process approach, so I tweak, render, adjust, render. Anyway, for simple shapes, no texture or surface adjustments, it works. A little too much Noise on the Lines, not enough Variability due to Light and Distance. It seems like it should be doable, but time and attention with this strategy tends to wear thin.
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    Last edited by paulhart; 03-18-2017 at 09:40 PM.
    An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind... Gandhi/MLKing
    Greater consciousness is worth the effort. Be aware.... so sayest the Animated Fool ~ HARTWORKS www.hartworks.net

  4. #109
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julez4001 View Post
    Ummm...Load From Scene file will take care of that.
    Yes, and again robertoortiz are you referring, since it was ambgious, to the labor of constructing a node network?? Because you CAN save/load them. Nobody seems to talk about it much.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
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  5. #110
    When it comes to NPR/Cel shading I think Cinema 4D got it correct, the Sketch & Toon tools in there are pretty amazing, there are few things you cannot do with it, you can have multiple layers of edges, for example a sketch layer being visible and then ink lines on top of that, offset lines beside the true position, you can "overshoot" lines just like a quick sketch, line width and distorsion can all be controlled in many different ways, transparency, color and pretty much everything else, on top of that are a number of different shaders (cel shading, art shader and so on) the only downsides with it is price and the line rendering can be a bit slow.
    LightWave 2015.3 - Fantasy web comic: http://rustandmagic.se https://www.facebook.com/rustandmagic57/
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  6. #111
    Animated Fool paulhart's Avatar
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    magiclight, Hello...
    I agree in many ways about Sketch & Toon. I even asked if it could be ported over several years ago. I got a "not likely" back as a response. It is a fine example of an artist friendly software tools for developing hand drawn lines and cel shading looks more easily. I can only hope and dream.
    An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind... Gandhi/MLKing
    Greater consciousness is worth the effort. Be aware.... so sayest the Animated Fool ~ HARTWORKS www.hartworks.net

  7. #112
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    FWIW, I think you could output FBX animated (?) files from LW to c4d, and then use etc etc.

    I've never even looked at S&T , yet, although I have c4d: that there's a big ocean to navigate.
    They only call it 'class warfare' when we fight back.
    Praise to Buddha! #resist
    Chard's Credo-"Documentation is PART of the Interface"
    Film the cops. Always FILM THE COPS. Use this app.

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