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Thread: How many can we run?

  1. #1
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    How many can we run?

    Can you run 2 Control Panels to control 1 mix Engine?
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
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  2. #2
    I've been told yes, two control panels can control a mix engine. Also the control panels connect via Ethernet so they can be located anywhere on the same network.
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

  3. #3
    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    I would not have two control surfaces controlling one mix engine. You can however use one CS to control up to 8 mix engines.

  4. #4
    I stand corrected. I must of been thinking the other way around.
    Kane Peterson
    Key Accounts Sales Engineer
    NewTek, Inc.

  5. #5
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACross View Post
    I would not have two control surfaces controlling one mix engine. You can however use one CS to control up to 8 mix engines.
    I am thinking of so many events are getting more and more output needy... It would be really nice to be able to put a control surface in front of 2 or 3 different Technical Directors and split up the duties for each outgoing broadcast. TD 1 for domestic , TD 2 for international feed, TD 3 for inhouse and IMAG... All would be pulling using a strip to control their respective feed. Of course this could be done with 3 x VMC1 and Control surfaces but that is more budget and the biggest thing, lots more valuable physical space in a control room or truck.

    So I guess the next followup question is going to be, what other control options are available to achieve the same goal of multiple inputs shared to multiple operators to create unique outputs?
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
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  6. #6
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Come to think of it, a Large multi studio university system would also benefit from multiple control surfaces to one engine. Studio A and Control room A to the LED boards, Studio B and Control B to ESPN3, and Control room C to closed circuit TV on campus...
    Jef Kethley
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  7. #7
    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIZAZZ View Post
    So I guess the next followup question is going to be, what other control options are available to achieve the same goal of multiple inputs shared to multiple operators to create unique outputs?
    NDI sources can be shared to any other systems on the network, so inputs or video mix outputs can easily be shared to any other mix engines or output boxes. Output boxes can provide additional layering and positioning so that you can provide alternative compositions with the same set of sources on the network.

  8. #8
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    I was thinking that same thing on the input/output sharing.

    I guess the big hurdle is having 1 control surface and 1 op to manage all that content. In our experience, the producer would want a specific TD to create their vision so having only 1 control surface to administer 3 or 4 separate outputs would be a big limitation. I can only imagine three ops reaching over the Control Surface all at the same time. We have attempted to do something very similar in our own productions but used a second control surface method and a TON of custom macros to make it work. 3 separate multicam switched outputs from 3 different locations on site. It happened but it was definitely non-trivial.

    In these multi-destination situations it is often more than just putting a DSK over an output mix. Often they would need a different camera cut to broadcast versus IMAG/inhouse and then international feed would need not only a different camera cut but also a different set of interstitials and video rolls than Domestic.

    These challenges we have experienced in my production division just last week. The bigger trucks bring out a completely separate vision mixer and split it all up on a router. NDI should greatly simplify this right? That is my dream and thought.
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
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  9. #9
    NewTek Engineering ACross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIZAZZ View Post
    I was thinking that same thing on the input/output sharing.

    I guess the big hurdle is having 1 control surface and 1 op to manage all that content. In our experience, the producer would want a specific TD to create their vision so having only 1 control surface to administer 3 or 4 separate outputs would be a big limitation. I can only imagine three ops reaching over the Control Surface all at the same time. We have attempted to do something very similar in our own productions but used a second control surface method and a TON of custom macros to make it work. 3 separate multicam switched outputs from 3 different locations on site. It happened but it was definitely non-trivial.

    In these multi-destination situations it is often more than just putting a DSK over an output mix. Often they would need a different camera cut to broadcast versus IMAG/inhouse and then international feed would need not only a different camera cut but also a different set of interstitials and video rolls than Domestic.

    These challenges we have experienced in my production division just last week. The bigger trucks bring out a completely separate vision mixer and split it all up on a router. NDI should greatly simplify this right? That is my dream and thought.
    One thought that will work, there is web based control on VMC so you can use any tablet to control it. You can have as many of those attached as you want. It even supports DDR play-lists, datalink, triggers, etc... This is actually a really big feature thats not been written about much yet.

  10. #10
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACross View Post
    One thought that will work, there is web based control on VMC so you can use any tablet to control it. You can have as many of those attached as you want. It even supports DDR play-lists, datalink, triggers, etc... This is actually a really big feature thats not been written about much yet.
    Yep. Haven't heard that mentioned at all. That could be a solution. Though, some of my clients would not blink at dropping the necessary coin on a second full control surface. I hope you guys also plan on a smaller 2 strip version down the road too. That would be ideal for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th output mixes and delegating those to separate Tech Directors.

    Thanks Andrew and team for thinking ahead and putting the web-based control options in place.
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
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  11. #11
    Macro Titan JonRaidel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIZAZZ View Post
    I am thinking of so many events are getting more and more output needy... It would be really nice to be able to put a control surface in front of 2 or 3 different Technical Directors and split up the duties for each outgoing broadcast. TD 1 for domestic , TD 2 for international feed, TD 3 for inhouse and IMAG... All would be pulling using a strip to control their respective feed. Of course this could be done with 3 x VMC1 and Control surfaces but that is more budget and the biggest thing, lots more valuable physical space in a control room or truck.

    So I guess the next followup question is going to be, what other control options are available to achieve the same goal of multiple inputs shared to multiple operators to create unique outputs?
    Re-Entry can fix this with different feeds. ultimately cutting the same game feed, but laying different graphics for individual output. can it not?
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  12. #12
    NewTek System Integrator PIZAZZ's Avatar
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    Somewhat but still only one user. The workflow that I am talking about is more of the ability to have a central IP Series Mix Engine and then multiple hardware control surfaces that can create unique content for the different outbound feeds. IMAG cuts will be different than Worldfeed cuts and could be different than Domestic cuts. IP transport of video signals gives us the flexibility we have used in digital audio snakes for years. Same inputs just managed into different directions. In our own productions, we use one audio stagebox that can feed a house audio mix, a stage monitor mix, and an overflow area mix or 2 or 3. Think the same concept but with video and independent controls for each mix output. Sure IPads and other makeshift control surfaces can help but having 2 or 3 of the exact control surface running 1 mix engine is more conducive to keeping everyone consistent and on the same page.
    Jef Kethley
    PIZAZZ
    www.pizazz.com

    Using:
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  13. #13
    Macro Titan JonRaidel's Avatar
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    being able to use two panels on one VMC is a feature Id love to have as well. but i understand what you are looking to do.
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