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  1. #121
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Boogiedown Remote Collaboration ToolsetsŪ --

    Quote Originally Posted by robertoortiz View Post
    They thing is that now those tools for the generalist market have to TALK to each other, and provide ENHANCED REMOTE COLLABORATION TOOLSETS.
    That would make an interesting thread in itself: what are the current options now and how does each stack up?

    There's the obvious stuff, like Skype, but, for instance, there's Messiah's, urrrmmmm (can't remember official name) "sketch on" capability which would make getting the point across easier, and IIRC Adobe has some really kick-*** collaboration and markup tools (maybe for editing?).

    On the latter, I remember I thought during the demo "There's everything you want right there."

    Chard's Credo-"Documentation: PART of the Interface"
    GunFAIL LIV -American as a box of hammers. 7 kids dead.

  2. #122
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    Or if there were a union that ran as a post house?

    Freelancers and people who were looking for permanent employment but were between jobs would work on projects people would bring to the union as a "shop". The union would charge a minimal fee because the purpose of the union isn't to make a profit or pay salaries to executives or even the cost of maintaining workstations, none of that.

    Personally, I find the idea even more attractive (but less feasible) for the union to use the talent of it's members to actually create IP that benefits the health insurance and retirement plans of its members.

  3. #123
    the escapist zarti's Avatar
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    always the Thing starts sliding over the Sh!T when a group goes beyond 50 members . Always !

    heres my formula :

    - artists build clusters ranging from 5 to 15 members max .
    ( thats the Magic size . keeps Humans very connected with each other . Unbreakable . )

    - they altogether build a strong and fair network . worldwide .
    ( share projects when full , join forces when needed , etc .. a Brotherhood )

    - start over from 0 . yes Zero .
    ( very quickly everyone will get what he Deserves ; in revenue and reputation )

    - dont be Greedy .
    ( thats why we are here today discussing . there is Enough for Everyone )


    --

    technology( in tems of power , connectivity , compatibility )permit many things today .

    yes , thats mi sujestion .

    !best wishes to All
    Last edited by zarti; 04-14-2012 at 11:01 AM. Reason: my english =P

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter2999 View Post
    Or if there were a union that ran as a post house?

    Freelancers and people who were looking for permanent employment but were between jobs would work on projects people would bring to the union as a "shop". The union would charge a minimal fee because the purpose of the union isn't to make a profit or pay salaries to executives or even the cost of maintaining workstations, none of that.

    Personally, I find the idea even more attractive (but less feasible) for the union to use the talent of it's members to actually create IP that benefits the health insurance and retirement plans of its members.
    THAT... is an interesting idea.

    I wonder what the pluses and minuses would be? It may be difficult to implement dividends on each IP. Something tells me that it would end up being a contentious area. Still... a VERY interesting idea.

  5. #125
    Axes grinder- Dongle #99
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    Sounds more like a co-op than a 'union'. Nothing wrong with that: perhaps it could be BOTH. A union with co-op features, or a co-op that acts as a workers' representative organization.

    Chard's Credo-"Documentation: PART of the Interface"
    GunFAIL LIV -American as a box of hammers. 7 kids dead.

  6. #126
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    Thinking about it though...

    You would need quite a bit of cash up-front to survive since any IP would take quite some time to see any ROI.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalSorcery8 View Post
    Thinking about it though...

    You would need quite a bit of cash up-front to survive since any IP would take quite some time to see any ROI.
    In answer to this point and the one made before about the downside... they are one in the same. The union has funds in the form of the investment accounts for the retirement fund. Members would have to vote to allot a percentage that would act as the production fund.

    This would have to be a somewhat small amount though as any original IP is in effect a high risk investment and retirement funds should be predominantly "blue chip". Perhaps if the investment were in a sequel that had a proven track record it would be deemed a safer investment and possibly be afforded a larger allocation.

    But the union that covers CG artists is currently the union for traditional animators. There is broad spectrum of talent represented. Projects could be anything with animation and/or compositing.

    But I think to Jeric's point, it is more like a co-op. Unions are more for protection than benefit.

    Roberto-
    Have you ever seen this? http://www.alienbrain.com/videos/
    Last edited by Dexter2999; 04-14-2012 at 01:51 PM.

  8. #128
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    One common mistake I see in the areas of development of IP is that we got people who may be asking themselves to do too much outside their areas of expertise.

    One idea that would be revolutionary is to have top of the line professionals for other fields willing to work and collaborate developing IP with CG artists.

    That means finding away to entice professional writers, sound designers actors to join the fray. (of course there would be union issues with organizations like SAG, but that is another ball of wax)
    This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government, CG Networks or CGTALK.com. The opinions expressed on this posting are on my own volition.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertoortiz View Post
    One common mistake I see in the areas of development of IP is that we got people who may be asking themselves to do too much outside their areas of expertise.

    One idea that would be revolutionary is to have top of the line professionals for other fields willing to work and collaborate developing IP with CG artists.

    That means finding away to entice professional writers, sound designers actors to join the fray. (of course there would be union issues with organizations like SAG, but that is another ball of wax)
    There's really no way to do this unless pay is involved. Otherwise you would just be asking for "free work" and/or "you'll get paid if/when we make money." IMO the best way is to create a very short short that is incredible enough to attract people to WANT to work on it. But here still it would probably be asking for "free work." How else could you do what you suggest?

    The only other way I can see is educating yourself on what is required to develop your IP and just do it. Obviously it's not easy, but then nothing worthwhile ever is.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalSorcery8 View Post
    There's really no way to do this unless pay is involved. Otherwise you would just be asking for "free work" and/or "you'll get paid if/when we make money." IMO the best way is to create a very short short that is incredible enough to attract people to WANT to work on it. But here still it would probably be asking for "free work." How else could you do what you suggest?

    The only other way I can see is educating yourself on what is required to develop your IP and just do it. Obviously it's not easy, but then nothing worthwhile ever is.
    I agree pay would have to be involved.
    I am just thinking that a kickstarter like service could be the solution.
    This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government, CG Networks or CGTALK.com. The opinions expressed on this posting are on my own volition.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertoortiz View Post
    I am just thinking that a kickstarter like service could be the solution.
    Great idea!

    Again, perhaps a really short short with incredible visuals would help to get people interested enough to "kick" in to the program.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalSorcery8 View Post

    I would bet that most on this forum would prefer to take the longer and slower road to wealth - in this industry - as opposed to being someone like Textor who considers people as disposable. We can see and appreciate the work that veterans of the business can achieve AND how people can slowly work their way up in the company. But if you want to get wealthy quickly - "our way" is not the best way. You try the methods that Textor is trying to employ.

    Earning wealth with a conscience or earning it without is the decision.

    If he is screwing with people he will have hard time finding valuable employees , on the other hand if he keeps hiring/getting free labor he will end up with substandard products.
    Now if even with substandard output , he still manages to do well then obviously there is a market for that sort of product and there is no need for so many highly skilled artists in the first place.

  13. #133
    Man of many cells. shrox's Avatar
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    I seem to find freelance jobs with companies that are either very disorganized, or the contact person leaves right after I sign on. There was a medical company that I was going to do work for, then they just fell off the map.
    shrox www.shrox.com
    -----------------------
    My Star Trek Reel

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    -----------------------
    Spaceship maker.

  14. #134
    Haha...I know that story too well.
    Rob Depew
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  15. #135
    Registered User Mr Rid's Avatar
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    Visual effects artists aim to create better work environments
    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...1.story?page=1
    "We're more responsible for the bottom line than any other part of the talent. Yet we're treated like talent was back in the 1930s and 1940s."

    Taken from the United States Department of Labor and California’s Division of Labor Standards Enforcement list of six criteria that must be met for an unpaid intern.
    4. The employer that provides the training must not derive any immediate advantage from the activities of the intern, and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded.

    http://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2012...al-domain-ceo/
    Last edited by Mr Rid; 04-19-2012 at 10:51 PM.
    "O K, so what's the speed of dark?"

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