Anybody know anything about Closed Captioning?

M

mr hibble

New member
I just made a 30 min infomercial, and need to add closed captioning. I don't have the software to do it, so I have to send it out to have it added to the file. As I understand it, even though my file is 720x480, the actual file is 520 x720 or something like that- in other words, there are unseen lines we don't see... and closed captioning uses LINE 12 at the top and encodes the data in there somehow with black and white dots - that's why sometimes we see white dots at the very top of our Speededit output window.

Anyway- it costs 400 dollars to have this encoding added to my digital file. But I keep re-editing my stuff almost every day and improving it, so my question is- is there some way to keep the CC info intact but change the picture part. You'd think it could be done in After Effects by creating a mask and only messing with the lower 480 lines but the problem is After Effects only shows 480 lines I think. I always thought that what you see in the window is exactly what the file is- if the file is 480x720- you see 480x720 and that's it. But apparently there are another 12 lines hidden somewhere- that maybe After Effects can't touch ???

Does anyone know how I can re-edit stuff in Speededit without wiping out the Closed Captioning data on line 12 ?

Thank you
Markus
 
Hi Marcus,

Closed captioning (or subtitles in the real world ;)) is not something that is usually dealt with during the editing stage, so worrying about the technicalities of it is somewhat redundant.

The general workflow these days is to edit your video as normal and if you want to create CC's you would use a free program such as SubCreator to create a .srt subtitle file (or equivalent) that contains all the words from the program along with the timings dictating when they are supposed to appear within the video.

This will normally mean you'll have two files. The video file and the .srt file.

Because analogue tape is not really used these days, the two files will normally be played back digitally via a broadcasting company's computer system, or authored within a DVD burning program or in the same folder/directory on a computer's hard disk for playback on a media player program that can detect subtitles. The point being, that because it's all digital, the computer programs that playback these files look for these files and take care of all the technical stuff needed to display them, so all you need worry about is finalising your edits and then as the last stage, creating the subtitle file that goes with it.

But the beauty of this digital workflow is when you think you've done your final edit, created your subtitles, shown it to the client, the client then wants changes made (as they always do). You can still go back to the edit room, make the changes to the video and easily make the changes to the .srt file, for free, knowing that it'll still playback as required.

If the audience wants subtitles, they can have it. If they don't, they won't.

And finally to answer your question, you may need to use a Subtitle Ripper program, whose function is to detect and extract the CC data embedded within video footage and save it's finding in a file.

You can find a bunch of free subtitling tools from here:
http://www.free-codecs.com/Software/Subtitle_Tools.htm

Hope this helps

Shabazzy
 
Closed Caption is different than subtitles

Hi, thanks for the reply, but subtitling (the option you can turn on in a rented DVD) is not the same as closed captioning, which is an FFC mandated thing for hearing impaired people, which requires a decoder box. It's encoded in line 21 (I thought it was line 12 but it's line 21). I looked online and even Avid people are frustrated by this. Apparently it CAN be done in After Effects by having the CC company send a "black" video file that can be married with the master file by masking the whole 486 x 720 image area and putting the black CC file under it... and the mysterious hidden lines will be glued above the 486 size. It's a little confusing because it works also with mini-dv which is 480 and not 486, so I guess line 21 is still line 21 either way. Final Cut apparently said they have a way to deal with CC but most people say it doesn't work. Hmm. So frustrating. Anyone who has to make stuff for TV (like infomercials) eventually will have to deal with this. I called several CC companies. It's definitely not the same as basic subtitles.
 
http://www.cpcweb.com/nle/nle-hardware.htm

CPCWeb have a number of products that fit into a workflow at various points for in-band NTSC (standard def) centric closed captioning.

yes, this is mandatory for broadcasting over RF/DVB (air,satellite or cable) mediums in many parts of the world. The reality is that this is all too often overlooked by the smaller program makers and vendors supplying software to support them.

Some consideration has to be made to the fact that 720x486 D1-uncompressed and even DV material are not always native delivery formats anymore. Also, to utilize the FAUX area of DV is increasingly unlikely to deliver as playback decks that support VAUX to line21 regeneration/conversion are taking a bit of a back-seat with HD (and 3D) gaining traction.

Encoding closed-captions and even being able to place speech-to-text metadata alongside an edit ought not to be such a large hurdle as it still is today. Sure, some NLEs are doing the speech recognition thing now, but it is more for editing productivity than for the hearing impaired. Ideally, it should be for both with it forming the framework to make CC as trivial as making a PDF from MS-Word. IMHO.

SpeedEDIT has a lot in common with VT-Edit (Video Toaster 3 and 4) but you may wish to run through the demo versions and speak to the vendor prior to making such an investment. Similarly, there will be folks here who already have this ability and you could perhaps pool your resources. However, it would seem ideal to complete editing prior to running off the final broadcast quality deliverable.
 
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BTW: Sony Vegas Pro 10 is touting this addition in the pre-release literature. There isn't too much information as to the extent of this programming and whether it is particular only to certain types of hookups (e.g. SDI) where in-band via line21 can take place (via firewire or a supported analog or digital uncompressed D1 output) or via a dedicated meta-stream channel alongside the AV mux. Eventually this boils down to the final sense of being able to deliver to a set-top/integral closed caption decoder. These units are available worldwide, AFAIK.

Someone at Sony has clearly chosen to listen to the government's mandate to provide this.

Pro 10 IBC announcement (scraped from a news release by Sony):

"Improved Closed Captioning: Improved support for closed captions enables broadcasters to preview captions in the Preview and Trimmer windows for increased accuracy and ease of editing. Other improvements include increased support for line 21 closed captions, HD-SDI closed captions, multiple closed captioning file types as well as the ability to export captions for Sony DVD Architect™, YouTube™, RealPlayer®, QuickTime™, and Windows Media Player®"

AFAIK there was no closed captioning before. However subtitling was possible and had export options into DVD-Video and many popular computer distribution formats (e.g. streamed video).

We'll have to try the demo to see if this is a worthwhile implementation.
One irony to stomach is that HD deliverables and broadcast formats are generally declared as incompatible with the original closed caption definition and hardware decoders. This doesn't prevent any form of text overlay but instead relies on conversion into the host STB medium (be it via broadcast or recordable medium). Legislation has fallen out of step with technology and with some of the commercial realities of moving forward (e.g. to HD) however that is hardly something new :)
 
mr hibble said:
Does anyone know how I can re-edit stuff in Speededit without wiping out the Closed Captioning data on line 12 ?
Click to expand...

Instead of adding the CC to your final edit, you should be provided with a QuickTime movie that is basically black video with the CC information. Then you just lay the CC movie on another video track above your edit and crop the bottom of it so that it's only outside the motion safe areas. I know you can do this in FCP but I have no experience with SpeedEdit.

I don't know though that AE will properly encode/decode the CC information as it's not an "editing" program.
 
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mr hibble said:
Hi, thanks for the reply, but subtitling (the option you can turn on in a rented DVD) is not the same as closed captioning, which is an FFC mandated thing for hearing impaired people, which requires a decoder box. It's encoded in line 21 (I thought it was line 12 but it's line 21). I looked online and even Avid people are frustrated by this. Apparently it CAN be done in After Effects by having the CC company send a "black" video file that can be married with the master file by masking the whole 486 x 720 image area and putting the black CC file under it... and the mysterious hidden lines will be glued above the 486 size. It's a little confusing because it works also with mini-dv which is 480 and not 486, so I guess line 21 is still line 21 either way. Final Cut apparently said they have a way to deal with CC but most people say it doesn't work. Hmm. So frustrating. Anyone who has to make stuff for TV (like infomercials) eventually will have to deal with this. I called several CC companies. It's definitely not the same as basic subtitles.
Click to expand...

AFAIK Speed edit can not do line 21 encoding (and yes line 21 is the same with dv) I have asked for this back in the vt days but no avail. Vegas CAN, FCP can- but it seems complicated. Adobe CAN do it but its a copy paste job thingie. My solution has been two fold. First you can find free line 21 encoders out there and just type in the lines for the VO or scene. It is tedious but works. There is not a magic bullet except for CC companies that use a dedicated video card linked to court reporting type of software that will do real time CC encoding but you will loose a generation of video. Best bet is to go to the Adobe forum and ask around.
BTW I have tried to use Dragon Dictation ( a iphone app) to get text of long form video for those of you who are interested. Basically you just let the phone listen to the video and a text file is translated. I copy and paste it to myself in a email. Pretty Cool and accurate.
 
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Cc

The files with the code can be passed in SE and VT.
Tapes digitized with CC and black files are very useable with SE and VT.

When encoding a file for a dvd with CC you need a .scc file to enter into the authoring system. I have done 24 hr turnaround with most companys.
One thing you need is a transcript to send with the file to be encoded.
CC also can include symbols for music and sound fx.

As for doing the encoding it has always been less expensive to use a company that does the encoding full time.
Pete
 
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