What about the new SDHC-based JVC GY-HM100U for SE?

[Tony R]

Looks promising but some of you guys will know it's limitations more than I can see. Since I am now no longer considering any AVCHD based camera, this one uses MPEG2 Long GOP. Is that compatible with SE? It looks like it has most of the features I am looking for, especially XLR audio.
Take a look and talk amongst yourselves.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101845

[John Perkins]

I can't say for certain, not having access to one, but the chances are good since it states "Native .MP4 (XDCAM-EX™) format "

This is in no way a guarantee, but seems within reason. The problems arise when different manufacturers slightly tweak the "standard"

I anyone has one of these cameras, I would be very interested in your results and any footage you might be willing to send me for testing purposes.

[SBowie]

There are some samples here, John (haven't tested them myself yet):

http://www.dvinfo.net/article/acquisition/jvcprohd/exclusive-jvc-gy-hm100-gy-hm700-with-canon-14x-lens-field-test.html

[John Perkins]

Those are all mov, not the EX1 style clips.

Based on previous experience with mov, FinalCut would need the MPEG2 plugin and even the new improved Quicktime support in SE2.0 would fail for the same reason.

I'm sure you would want to shoot in "EX1" mode for most Windows based editors.

[SBowie]

Yeah, I noticed that - but the docs on the cam brag about FCP compatibility and the guy specifically states they are raw clips so I assumed the camera may save an EX format .mov.

[Gary Robinson]

I've tested some footage I got from NAB. It captures in quicktime and mp4. The 700 series version of the camera needs an attachment to capture mp4. The mp4's work in SpeedEDIT, Vegas, etc. The quicktime's from the camera don't work in anything I've tested, and I was told you need Final Cut Pro 6.0 or so for the files to work.

[ScorpioProd]

So can this camera actually capture XDCAM EX format on the affordable SDHC cards that the camera normally takes for FCP .mov use?

If so, that's cool. Cause I was thinking it would only do the .mp4 wrapper with an expensive add on like the other camera Gary mentioned.

Although I notice in the link that they don't actually call it "XDCAM EX", and claim it is an in-house JVC codec, which is really odd considering their XDCAM EX and SxS licensing and previous info on the other camera.

I had ruled out all these JVC camcorders as "FCP-only", but maybe not.

[jredmond108]

For the 700 camera (the big brother of the 100) In order to capture to the xcam ex format (MP4) you have to buy the SxS Media Recorder which uses SxS flash memory and not the SDHC memory.

So it is another add on to the camera.

I've been looking at it too. Too bad the camera itself only records mov with the SDHC memory cards...

James

[Tony R]

OK. This cam is out of the running for me now. I'll tell you something,.. if it isnt one thing, it's another. If the camera has all of the features you want, then it is sure to not tape in a format you can use. I give up. I may have to go and buy HDV against my better judgement.

[jredmond108]

I'm in the same boat. I thought these cameras were it. However I do not want to deal with mov files. There are a couple of sites where guys posted the various test file formats from the cameras and I at the time could not get them to play on either SpeedEdit nor Sony Vegas Pro 8.0. I haven't kept up with it all in the past couple of months.

Good luck with it all! James

[ScorpioProd]

OK, so the 700 can only record the EX (.mp4) format with the expensive add-on.

But what is the answer on this 100? What does it record .mp4 to that isn't in a .mov? Or doesn't it???

BTW, HDV isn't bad IF you get away from tape. To do this, you might want to look at some of the Sony solutions that give you a HDV tape drive, but also flash card storage at the same time.

[Gary Robinson]

By the way, just to clarify, as weird as this is, I think you actually can record mp4 to the sd cards if you have the sxs adapter (an extra $500 to the camera package at bhphotovideo) attached to the 700 camera. That's how I was given the sample mp4 on an sd card from NAB. The 100 camera records to quicktime or mp4 directly to sd cards without an adapter. It's a very small camera and probably a good choice for many people, but doesn't offer exchangeable lenses. I think both of these camera look great, but I'm leaning towards the 200 with an external drive because to me, a tape on the shelf is a great archive.

[gDoug]

I too would like to know if SpeedEdit will accept the .mp4 files generated by the GY-HM100U.

I really like the idea of recording to cards and am looking at cameras under 5k that will do that. Both the Sony HVR-Z5U and the Pana AG-HMC150 use AVCHD which I understand won't work in SpeedEdit unless you convert which I'd rather not do.

Does anyone have any experience with using the AVCHD files in Vegas?

[ScorpioProd]

The Sony HVR-Z5U is most definitely NOT AVCHD. It's HDV.

I too would like to know if SpeedEdit will accept the .mp4 files generated by the GY-HM100U.

I really like the idea of recording to cards and am looking at cameras under 5k that will do that. Both the Sony HVR-Z5U and the Pana AG-HMC150 use AVCHD which I understand won't work in SpeedEdit unless you convert which I'd rather not do.

Does anyone have any experience with using the AVCHD files in Vegas?

[GregGerlach]

Yes, you are correct about that. I see that with HVR-Z5U you have to buy a separate device to record to flash. That takes the total price up to around $5k and the flash cards aren't as cheap as the SHDC memory cards.

[JonCrowe]

I've shot with both the 100 and 700. The 100 will shoot .mov's and .mp4's without any extra options. The 700 will shoot .mov's and requires the SxS dock to record .mp4's. However, you don't have to record on Sony's overpriced SxS media. The SxS dock simply "unlocks" the .mp4 recording option. The 700 I shot with had the SxS dock, but I shot everything to SDHC media. The cool thing about the 100 is it will record both .mov and .mp4 without the SxS dock. Although if you're buying the 700, the bundle with the SxS only costs $500 more.

.mp4 clips from both cameras play/edit perfectly on SE and VT5. I had a little luck making the .mov's work, but since the .mp4's worked so well I didn't spend too much time with the .mov's. By the way, we've been shooting with the GY-HD200 and both the 100 and 700 blow it out of the water. The picture quality is amazing and it's darn hard to see the difference between the 1/4 inch 100 and the 1/3 inch 700. Not to mention a 16gb class 6 SDHC card is $50 compared to a 16gb SxS card that costs $600.

[GregGerlach]

Did you notice any problems shooting in low light with those 1/4" CCDs on the 100? And how difficult is it to adjust the little iris wheel in back of the camera while you're shooting?

[Quiet1onTheSet]

And how difficult is it to adjust the little iris wheel in back of the camera while you're shooting? Are you kidding us? There's no forward-mounted iris control on the HM100U?
:stumped:

That'd be a stupid engineering twist for the JVC GY-HM100U. Did their product design engineers really have in mind, the novel idea of the shooter making quick exposure adjustments within easy reach of his *tongue*?

:2guns: :tongue:

[GregGerlach]

Are you kidding us? There's no forward-mounted iris control?
:stumped:

That'd be a stupid engineering twist for the JVC GY-HM100U - as if their engineers had in mind, the novel idea of the shooter making quick exposure adjustments within easy reach of his *tongue*.

:2guns: :tongue:

Actually, it might be worse than that. I read a review in HD User magazine that said the iris wheel is closer to the nose.
http://hdusermagazine.com/review-jvc-gy-hm100-camcorder/

If that's true, look on the bright side... if you're on a shoot, you could adjust the iris and pick your nose in one motion. Now that's efficiency!

[John Perkins]

If someone has the one of these JVC cameras, please contact me.

It looks like SE2.0 may support their MOV files as well. The audio is giving me problems at the moment, but it looks fixable.

No guarantees (don't buy one based on this yet), but initial tests look promising.

Thanks,

[Liber777]

It looks like SE2.0 may support their MOV files as well. The audio is giving me problems at the moment, but it looks fixable.

That's heartening. Look forward to hearing your results. I've always liked JVC's ENG cameras, and the 700 looks like the idea prosumer kit for me.

[John Perkins]

These cameras are now considered supported in SpeedEDIT 2.0.

Both the mov and mp4 files should work properly.

There is also a cool new way to use the clips without having to dig through all the folders to find them. It makes using these cameras SO much easier and faster.

This feature applies to all supported file based cameras, P2, EX1, etc.

[GregGerlach]

John,

A couple of questions...

1. Will 2.0 support AVCHD? The Panasonic AG-HMC150 is becoming pretty popular.

2. When will 2.0 be available?

Thanks

[John Perkins]

I'm sorry, I can't commit to either answer right now.

I'm expecting SE sometime in the next two months. Hopefully that's on the long side of estimates, but don't hold me to it. Lots of details still need to be worked out before we can ship even if it was code complete.

I'm trying to be as open as possible without saying anything that could backfire. I'd much rather under promise and over deliver.

That said, it will certainly have some cool features that we didn't announce at NAB and frequent updates.

[Liber777]

Thanks, John. Are there plans for RED support?

[radams]

Hi John,

Sounds good...

Just a couple of ??and thoughts...

Will there be any support for DSLR's...ie: Cannon's 5 mark II
(H.264)

What about rolling shutter issues with all the cmos camera's?

Will there be support for the next generation engine...as in the XD300 series.
(Floating point, new DVE engine, etc...)

I'm not expecting an answer...just wanted to see if these are being thought of.

Cheers,

[ScorpioProd]

What about rolling shutter issues with all the cmos camera's?

You're expecting an NLE to fix that?

[John Perkins]

As far as I know, the Canons should work, but I've never seen a file from one. It's just Quicktime h.264 at 1080p according to the site I just checked.

If it works in Quicktime Player, it should work in SE2.0 but you may want a decent video card and the newest drivers since QT uses the GPU to some extent, especially on h.264.

We have lots of future plans but I won't be commenting on any of them until we are ready to announce them.

[Quiet1onTheSet]

What about rolling shutter issues with all the [CMOS cameras]?

While I most assuredly concur with Eugene's querying your boldness, if not outright naïveté :D -- something can be said of your apparent sense of NewTek's Cross, Perkins, and other resident examples of program engineering prowess and ingenuity!
:thumbsup:

[Liber777]

Actually I read recently about someone developing a software solution to help mitigate the rolling shutter issue... was it The Foundry?

Ah, found it:
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/blog.aspx#rollingshutter

[radams]

For those who've thought I lost my mind inregards to the rolling shutter issues...

Yes there are some possible solutions being looked at by other such as the Foundry, etc...using an optical flow technology, and some other black magic :)...

This like proper keying are issues that are needing to be addressed by all NLE's due the inherent issues with CMOS chips...

At least ways to midigate it.

Thanks John, BTW, the Cannon shoots both 1080p (20 fps) and 720p (30 fps)..

Though I HATE H.264 for an aquisition format!!!

Cheers,

[ScorpioProd]

Personally, I think rolling shutter is an issue the camera manufacturers need to fix, not something you should need to fix in post.

It's just like a noise filter added in the camera before compression is going to have much better results than doing noise filtering in post.

As for rolling shutter issues, Panasonic has just issued a firmware update to some of their cameras, to remove the rolling shutter caused look of camera flashes captured by them. The camera will now recognize a camera flash and remove it with data from the previous frame.

[donx]

This topic is making me very honoured to be using a tape based 3 CCD HDV camera. I would MUCH rather put up with capturing from tape, than have to deal with some of the issues of these various file systems. :confused:
Real time capture into your editing program of choice, to the appropriate format that the program desires, just seems so much less of a puzzle.

But maybe in the far distant future, some camera format will come around that is a pinnacle of perfection and it will last as long as the Analog cable that used to feed us editors a video signal.
:thumbsup:

[ScorpioProd]

It's all simply an issue of picking the NLE that works best with the camera format you want.

[donx]

Firewire is compatible with almost all NLE's.
New cameras are coming out, prices are coming down, but compatability is suffering.

That's the point I make.

[ScorpioProd]

But I don't think it's really an issue of the media at all, it's an issue of the codec involved.

HDV saved to flash cards will be as compatible in any NLE as HDV on tape would be.

Same reason most cameras have a downconvert via firewire feature to send out DV if that's what's needed versus a more esoteric HD codec based format.

I wouldn't want to go back to tape, but I do like more compatible codecs. I don't see myself ever using AVCHD, for example.

[ScorpioProd]

Since there had been some talk about the JVC GY-HM700 in this thread as well, I just wanted to update it to mention that it has been reported in other forums that JVC has now provided a firmware update to this camera to allow it to store on its native cards in the .mp4 wrapper instead of the QuickTime wrapper. This is very good news. And I have confirmed it on JVC's website.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101851

It's listed in the revised features as being effective next month. Though I see the update is already there for download as well.

Even if a PC based NLE can handle QT files, odds are you'll get better results with something not in a QT wrapper on a PC.