Having problems with tear duct

[tanker1812]

I am trying to create the tear duct area in the inner eye. I have selected the points in order, then created a polygon. After that I added two points to split the polygon, then I was going to smooth shift the polygons a little. The normal vectors to these polygons are not in the same direction which causes a funky smooth shift. How do I accomplish this smooth shift without ending up with funky poly's. Then here is a extremely newbie question. If I am to make those poly's subpatch mode, when I [ TAB ] I loose the subpatch on the rest of the outer eye. Again thanks everyone for your patience. I have posted the pictures in order of my work if someone could give me some insightI am new to modeling and am working through Dan Ablan's book Inside lightwave 7.

Michael

[tanker1812]

Pic 1 Select points

[tanker1812]

Pic 2

[tanker1812]

Pic 3

[tanker1812]

Pic 4 (two more to go)

[tanker1812]

Pic 5, aahh trouble has began

[tanker1812]

:o last one

[astro-sanchez]

I think it looks like you just need to use the drag tool and pull the three
points that are kind of under the eyelid out and delete those two polygons
on the otherside. then when you put the new polys into subpatch they should look right.

I hardly make sense to my self so here is a pic.

http://www.redrival.com/astrosanchez/attachment.jpg

[tanker1812]

thanks I will give that a try

[richpr]

Your split is not correct...

It needs to go from point 3 (of 5) to the newly created point...

[richpr]

Here is the screenshot from the CD... it creates two new quads...

[tanker1812]

Thanks for the help everyone. Here is an update, if anyone sees anything extremely out of whack please let me know.

[astro-sanchez]

that is looking good, I can't seem to model that way I start with a box
and add detail.

[si_kick]

hahaha, box modelling, i hate it for faces. I've got that book too, its really good book (im a newbie too). Its looking good. The mouth and the nose are probably the 2 hardest things. Also the edge surrounding the eye is set back where it shouldnt.
bye

[tanker1812]

Yeah I am currently working on that. My biggest challenge is making sure I keep the mesh as clean as possible. I have learned that in the short time that I have been going through the project

[tanker1812]

well it's getting better. Any comments on these lips

[tanker1812]

Here is the front mesh of those lips

[astro-sanchez]

Looking good and clean so far keep on going.

[tanker1812]

I hope I am not boring anyone, but I am getting the hang of modeling. So I will continue to post my progress if anyone see's something egregious please let me know. Ooh Hey Astro, your website shows up about 50x50 pixels, I can't view it.

Michael

[astro-sanchez]

thanks for saying something, I am learning the html stuff
but it works fine on other computers what is your screen size
set to? In the html file I have it set to scale the flash movie
to what ever the browser window size is so maybe I need to change
that.

go to and tell me if it works
sterafilms.com/test.html (http://www.sterafilms.com/test.html)

[tanker1812]

Here is my new dilemma, as you can see the geometry is off in both places that I have noted. Should I use the knife tool and create new geometry to match the mesh from the lip area. It appears that when I used drag to mold the shape of the chin (which was aligned to the X axis numerically when I started as with the area it should match in the lip area. The points are matched for welding in the center (X) but as you can see the geometry does not match. How important is this? Any suggestions

Michael

[astro-sanchez]

You should add the points to match. If you don't then you can't weld them
the way they are now and there will be a gap.

[tanker1812]

OK people I am in a dilemma, I have aligned up all of the geometry but when I weld the points they create some funky geometry. I was careful in all views to make sure the points were aligned before the weld operation. I consutled the lightwave manual on possible causes of this during weld but there was no help. Any tips on this one.

[tanker1812]

the point being welded is the one between the two arrows, not where the geometry curves

[tanker1812]

Well I figured that weld issue out. What I did was go out of subPatch adjust the polygon corners and did a fixed merge at 200um. I ended up with some funky geometry on the very edges but I think it looks good. All of you that model, wow I must say it is a lot of work and any advice on how to get more proficient would be appreciated. As well as anything you see egregious in my workflow.

[mufty]

Looking good so far :) I followed the link you put in my thread and it looks like you're coming up on the same issues I had. I found modelling and sculpting the individual areas (eyes, mouth, jaw) quite straight forward, but got into a little difficulty when joining them up.

The only advice I can give is to take it slowly and to pay attention to the reference pics. It also helps if you have some knowledge of anatomy, particularly the bone and muscle structure and how the skin conforms around it. I often visualised this in my head and it helped quite a lot.

Overall I found this tutorial to be difficult, but it's a great source of modelling tips.

Well, I dunno if that was any help, but good luck with your modelling :)

[richpr]

Looking good...

With this method the hardest part is to patch the parts up... But as the modelling skills grow, you get less afraid of redoing/removing etc. Or just go back a few steps and try again...
Save often!

Whatever you do, take the time and don't rush it... If it stays clean, it will help you in chapter 12 when you animate the face with endomorphs and bones, etc.

I recently did the same tutorial and still make changes to the head. Still doing more work on the textures... The only difference, I took my own head... ;)

[tanker1812]

Richpr,
Post a pic of your head, maybe I will start a Dan Ablan thread, might be more appropriate

[artmarci]

Been there done that and hated it to...but if ya try harder you will succeed so KUTGW and good luck

[tanker1812]

are these points too far from the actual poly's any other crits on the nose.

[hrgiger]

You're geometry is strange above the nose. You should have a clean straight line of points along the X axis so that you can mirror your geometry over to the other side.

I think that you have too much geometry in certain places like the lips and in the nostrils. Try using as little geometry as possible to define the shape you want, you can always add more later.

I would suggest paying pretty close attention to how Stu laid out the geometry in the tutorial you're following. It's a bit different then what you have. The best way to use sub-d's is to have the lines follow the contours of the model. Stu does a pretty good job of this in the tutorial.

[tanker1812]

thanks hriger. I am trying to follow the book as much as possible. I believe my poly count is close as I have followed the tut as close as possible. I know the poly on the tip of the nose is incorrect (at least not like the tut, it has 3 vertices vs 4) I had already mirrored the center of the nose across X axis just shaping right now. I appreciate the comments and any more are more than welcome

Michael

[tanker1812]

hrgiger,
Aaah I see where there are way to many poly in that nose. I had to look a few times and now see the error in that part of the modeling ( delete key in action) I will post an update later today. How do you all model stuff so damn quick? (practice practice practice....)

Michael
it's good thing I'm on vacation

[astro-sanchez]

looks like you are doing good, better than I did when I was doing that
one. I would put in way to much geometry until I hit my head on something and it became clear. There will be a point when you really get how to do it
and then everything is much faster.