ATI 9800 pro

[mwh710]

Anyone use the new ATI 9800 Pro 128MB card on a 2X AGP Dual 450 G4? It says it's 2X, 4X.

[Ade]

Dont waste your time, ATI isnt serious about 3d design and Lightwave.. Stick with Nvidia.

ATI is simply a gamers toy card... As of current driver status.

[Johnny]

interesting, as that's the top choice offered with the G5.

J

[js33]

Therein lies one of the problems. Why does Apple make a machine geared for the content creator and stick a stupid, crappy driver, poor opengl, gamer card in it??????????????????

It's like they thought of everything EXCEPT THE VIDEO CARD.

Hello APPLE ATI CARDS ARE CRAPPY. USE DIFFERENT ONES.

So they really expect people to dish out $3000 for a computer crippled with a crappy video card.

Cheers,
JS

[Johnny]

Give it a freakin' REST, will ya?

you Mac-haters have more than established for the rest of time as we know it + 15 years that Macs are trash, Mac-users are misled fools, Apple is the Great Satan Lier, and that anything Mac-related is at the sub-scum level.

Ever since June 23, I've been aware on this board of one thing more than any other: that several of the PC-using member hear are absolutely packed full of bile which needs to spewed on the Mac side.

This serves what end? Have we been shown our place? Does it make your unit larger? Has Steve Jobs been cast to the pits of hell?

Frankly, the bunch of you sound like a group of little whiny kids, getting in that last snotty remark.

Is this the persona you present to clients or professional colleagues? Do you have either?

Go get some skittles and chocolate milk and admire yourselves in SOLITUDE..and ask your mother when dinner's ready!

sheesh!

SHEESH!

J

[Ade]

Johnny the resentment is towards ATI releasing cards with drivers that crash modeller thus make them useless eventhough ATI thinks its more important to add features rather than fix old problems.. Many of us mac users who opted for radeon cards feel ripped off becaus ethe nearest thing to a radeon on nvidia side costs like $900aus!

[skippy]

Yeah, and I respect that problem/awareness of it. when I ordered my 2-ghz, I asked specifically about ati-related issues, and the guy said that the 9800 was selected bcs it worked the best with the G5...

is there an nvidia card that can go into the Dual-2ghz G5? when I asked why apple didn't offer an nvidia card with the 2ghz, they said the 9800 worked the best.

so...feeling like I should cut the 9800 from my order, see if there's an nvidia model to replace it.

J

[mlinde]

If you can MAKE apple put the 5200FX into your box instead of the 9800, I would. That's the current "high-end" Mac nVidia card.

[tallscot]

js33,

I asked you this already, but don't remember getting a response. What kind of card do you use?

[Johnny]

js:

sorry for flippin' out like that...it's been a long week, and I mis-interpreted your post.

my bad..completely!

Johnny

[tumblemonster]

I had read (here and other places) that Panther will have support for more professional video cards. Is this still the case?

-tm

[mlinde]

Originally posted by tumblemonster
I had read (here and other places) that Panther will have support for more professional video cards. Is this still the case?

-tm

This issue has been addressed and redressed, but I'll address it again :)

Apple can build all the drivers they want. What is required is that the retail developer (i.e. PNY for nVidia) write the firmware (aka BIOS) for the video card to understand and interpret Mac OS commands. ATI does this for their basic cards (Radeon) but not the professional cards (FireGL). Since nVidia does not write BIOS/firmware at all (they leave that to third party retail developers like Apple and PNY) there are no Macintosh cards based on the Quadro GPUs. I also mentioned earlier that nVidia is looking to hire a firmware/BIOS developer for MacOS, so this may change in the next year, but don't expect anything soon.

[turbo]

nVidia mac products (http://www.nvidia.com/page/products.html)

... and yes.. latest panther now for G5

[mlinde]

Originally posted by turbo
nVidia mac products (http://www.nvidia.com/page/products.html)

... and yes.. latest panther now for G5
Don't you mean

nVidia mac products (http://www.nvidia.com/page/macintosh.htm)

[turbo]

Originally posted by mlinde
Don't you mean

nVidia mac products (http://www.nvidia.com/page/macintosh.htm)

.. not really.. what i meant was .. click on the links in the mac products list.. :p

[js33]

Originally posted by tallscot
js33,

I asked you this already, but don't remember getting a response. What kind of card do you use?

Oh sorry. In my PCs I have a nVidia Ti 4200 in the P4 and a GeForce2mx in my P3 and my iMac.

Cheers,
JS

[js33]

Originally posted by Johnny
js:

sorry for flippin' out like that...it's been a long week, and I mis-interpreted your post.

my bad..completely!

Johnny

Oh no problem. I'm a Mac owner as well. :D

My gripe is that Apple seems stuck on ATI cards and oblivious to the problems they cause for some users.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

My gripe is that Apple seems stuck on ATI cards and oblivious to the problems they cause for some users.

I don't know where you get that idea, considering the G4s the G5 replaced came with GeForce 4 Ti 4600 cards, and the 1.4 and 1.6 Ghz G5 come with GeForce FX 5200. The iMacs come with nVidia, the majority of the PowerBooks come with nVidia...

I don't see Apple stuck on ATI. I see one out of three G5 configurations with only ATI choices.

If you want the GeForce 4, you could sell the Radeon on eBay and buy a GeForce 4 pretty easily. I honestly wish it was a choice, but it's hardly a huge problem, and it's hardly a problem limited to just Apple.

And from what I've read, Panther fixes the Radeon bug.

[turbo]

I agree.. what's the big deal? I mean you'll prolly want to upgrade to a bigger faster card anyways. Choose the one you want. Think I've done that with every puter I've owned... :cool:

[Triple G]

I'm just waiting for 3Dlabs to jump on board....using a Wildcat with Panther? TELL me they aren't meant for each other...:D

[Johnny]

Originally posted by tallscot
[b]I don't see Apple stuck on ATI. I see one out of three G5 configurations with only ATI choices.

unfortunately, it's on the top model!

I tried, using my best persuasion techniques to get them to give me an nvidea card instead of either radeon choice. I learned that that card would work just fine in the Dual 2ghz, but no dice..there was just no way on earth for them to do it.

really annoying, bcs now the monkey's on my back to sell the radeon it comes with shop for an nvidia, when they *could* just slip that card in before they ship my mac and be done with it.

sigh..

J

[tallscot]

Which nVidia card do you want? The low-end FX?

I noticed that Dell offers the Radeon 9800 or the GeForce FX 5200 with their Dimension PC. It seems the GeForce 4 Ti is being discontinued by everyone.

I read a review of the FX, and it wasn't very good. It's a huge card that is loud, for less performance than the Radeon 9800.

Again, Panther seems to fix the ATI bug that is famous.

[archiea]

Sorry Tallscot, but I may have missed soemthing earlier. How do you know that Panther fixes the radeon issues?

[turbo]

access, or someone who has it, to the beta ;) ..

he is correct, btw.. :cool: ... as i am hearing.. :p ;) :D

[Johnny]

Originally posted by tallscot
.

Again, Panther seems to fix the ATI bug that is famous.

so, you're saying I/we'd be just fine using the 9800 with Modeler??

that's good news, if so!

J

[turbo]

mebbe.. but we'll have to wait and see, won't we..

[skippy]

hmm...sounds as though something more definite is known already about the 9800 and Panther...

s

[turbo]

i dunno... sigh...
... we just tried a couple of asus nvidia cards out in my current DP G4 500... no go.:(
- it booted with the 64 meg (GeForce 4 MX440-SE) but with no video .. and
- with the 128 (GeForce FX 5200) it didn't even pass the power-on test...

... we even tried booting in OS 9, installing drivers and rebooting into X.. no luck.
:(

anyone know any technical tricks to try? :confused:

[mlinde]

Originally posted by turbo
i dunno... sigh...
... we just tried a couple of asus nvidia cards out in my current DP G4 500... no go.:(
- it booted with the 64 meg (GeForce 4 MX440-SE) but with no video .. and
- with the 128 (GeForce FX 5200) it didn't even pass the power-on test...

... we even tried booting in OS 9, installing drivers and rebooting into X.. no luck.
:(

anyone know any technical tricks to try? :confused:
Hate the "I told you so" phrase, but I knew this was a problem. The firmware on the video cards is not compatible with the Macintosh. I hope you didn't spend any money. As for technical tricks, you might try to get in touch with nVidia to see if they have a Mac Firmware engineer yet, and if he/she/it has an early beta of Mac Firmware for other nVidia drivers that you could try. I wouldn't hold my breath though :(

[turbo]

money is not the issue. we can use the cards in some of our other systems, else we would not have purchased them. finding a solution is the issue.

was wondering if anyone had tried this (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20020712084851928) ?

[mlinde]

Originally posted by turbo
money is not the issue. we can use the cards in some of our other systems, else we would not have purchased them. finding a solution is the issue.

was wondering if anyone had tried this (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20020712084851928) ?

From what I've read in many places online, the ROM flash does not work with cards above the GeForce 2MX. Many have tried to buy PC-branded GeForce 3 and 4 cards and ended returning them, because they were unable to convert. I find it interesting that PC GeForce 2MX cards worked (albeit limited) prior to 10.1.2 without a ROM Flash.

On another note, are you telling me that you have successfully installed and used GeForce FX 5200 cards in Macs? If so, what brand of GeForce card? What model machine with what OS? What other cards have worked for you (that aren't based on the 2MX chipset)?

Everything I've ever learned (and been lectured about) says it shouldn't work, so I'd like to know what systems or configurations it does work in (and I'm sure others here would as well).

[turbo]

the other systems i was referring to are our PC's which are mostly servers..

[mlinde]

Originally posted by turbo
the other systems i was referring to are our PC's which are mostly servers..
Oh... :(
I was hoping you had discovered something wonderful and surprising. Well, back to hoping a quality card is made someday. It's only been about 8 years so far on my wish list!

[redlum]

Originally posted by mlinde
If you can MAKE apple put the 5200FX into your box instead of the 9800, I would. That's the current "high-end" Mac nVidia card.

Did you check out the 5900FX? 256 RAM dude that's a lot of head room.
http://www.nvidia.com/page/fx_desktop.html (http://)

[turbo]

How bout the 5600, thats what i want in my G5. Compusmart has said they would put it in.. But again.. that is just the chipset on nVidia's site, not the card which has to come from another supplier. Time will tell.

[mlinde]

Originally posted by redlum
Did you check out the 5900FX? 256 RAM dude that's a lot of head room.
http://www.nvidia.com/page/fx_desktop.html (http://)

again a card that we will never see on a Mac :(

Hey Chuck etal -- can you guys make any requests that the video card developers consider firmware & drivers for their professional cards on the Mac?

Please?

Pretty please?

Pretty pretty please with whipped cream and a cherry on top?

(uh, maybe that's a bit overboard) :P

[turbo]

PLEASE!!!!

also, folks, please post here (http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@6.tQnLapS5dJE.1008712@.59994a26)

[Johnny]

what's the problem that Macs can't get these real cards?

Is it on the apple/hardware side...something that's very proprietary to Apple and that would cause a card manufacturer to spend too much time and labor to surmount?

or is it that Mac share is too small?

I know that in days of yore, macs had more and more hardware and guts that were unique and peculiar to mac, but this has changed in recent years...

If we post to some of these other fora, what are we asking for, exactly?

J

[turbo]

imho its a monopoly thing.. Apple is holding us hostage. The only nVidia cards we can get are through them and none they have support 2X AGP.

ATI and Apple have some deal and Apple and nVidia have some deal and no one seems to care about the individual consumer.

What we ask for is ATI to provide up to date driver support, nVidia and Apple to allow us to purchase video cards that we choose and Apple to look at supporting higher end cards.