5 point poly help

[raw-m]

Does anyone know of any resources/tutorials that will help me iron out 5 point polys when subpatching? It doesn't matter where they end up I always manage to see the "seams" that make up the edges. I know it's best to have them on flatter areas but can't see how it's avoidable when beveling out legs from a body, for example.

Cheers.

[Hopper]

Try playing with Spinquad and merge. It's also helpful to have a step-down guide handy.

I would attach it, but the forum is still screwed up at the moment and won't accept attachments. You can probably find it in one of the other Subpatch Modeling threads.

If you can post a sample of the specific model, I'd would bet that Richard would jump in and give you a few helpful hints.

http://www.lightwiki.com/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling

[raw-m]

Oh, not heard of a step-down guide. I'll do a search, but if you remember it would be really appreciated if you could attach when working! Thanks Hopper.

[raw-m]

think this is it (although not entirely sure how it works in my case!):

http://www.pixelandpoly.com/graphics/referenceimages/step-down-guide.png

[Surrealist.]

Creases are often more apparent when you have as low poly model. And of course the 5 pointer is unavoidable unless you are making a round blob.

But when you have an appendage it is entirely possible to have a all 4 pointers on the loop where it connects.

The simplest example of that is here:

http://www.lightwiki.com/images/a/a3/EdgeLoopExample2.gif

For a leg if you simply place the 5 pointers in the flat pelvic area of the lower stomach you can have a clean loop around the crotch.

The buttox of course will get a 5 pointer - unavoidable. Just make your mesh a little denser all around so that you can have a tighter mesh and less movement.

Beyond that the overall poly flow will also play a roll.

[Leveller]

Hi.

i was just about to ask the same question.
i'm trying to model my first human head,
but by now modeling head nr 16 or 17, only to figure out how to get ride of the seams the 5 point poly makes.

anymore tips and hints are more then welcome.
this is what the model looks like.

http://www.sidecar-productions.nl/lightwave/face.png

http://www.sidecar-productions.nl/lightwave/face-wired.png

[Surrealist.]

Basically what is happening there is you have a basic polyflow problem around that area.

Take a look at some examples here:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83878&highlight=workshop&page=11


Let me know if you have any questions.

[Surrealist.]

The image shows the basic area that need addressing.

I drew arrows to more clear sketches of the polyflow.

The idea is to have a nice even fan out from the loops around the eyes and mouth.

[Leveller]

tnx for the tips and help you gave

the link to the forum post helped alot
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthr...rkshop&page=11

i rebuild the head model and think it has a better polyflow,

also found the "flaten normal axis-n" tool was a great help
in smoothing out the 5 point poly's

http://www.sidecar-productions.nl/lightwave/face01.jpg

http://www.sidecar-productions.nl/lightwave/face-wired01.jpg

[Surrealist.]

Definitely going in the right direction.

Something broken in that link you gave. Here it is again for reference:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83878&highlight=workshop&page=11

You can now take a look at the rest of the head and use the references there to improve on the polyfow.

[raw-m]

Good stuff - I've also had a bit of a "Eureka" moment with my modeling. The edge loop is key to everything I was having problems with - ie, I didn't have one! My edges where being pulled into all sorts of strange directions without but now I can do all sorts of patching up and they remain flat and invisible. Many thanks for the pointers.

[probiner]

Here are some good Sub-D references.

http://www.subdivisionmodelling.com/
http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907
http://www.lightwiki.com/Fundamentals_of_Subpatch_Modeling

Good reading :D

I'm also reading it and trying to improve my head modeling skills. *David Bowie mugshot for the win :D

[probiner]

I finally finished this guy.

The topology attention went nice i think, but the moddeling part went cheesy.
I got a problem with holes (EARS, EYES, Mouth).

Any suggestions to tweak or improve?

Cheers.

[Surrealist.]

Looks good. Take a look at the poly flow here for some improvements on the overall layout of the flow around the mouth and the laugh line.

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61143&d=1217138463

More detailed info here:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83878&highlight=workshop&page=11

[probiner]

Yeah my model is looking too "Grid" like, your flow its nice. I had seen it before, but you showing it again at this point, makes me realise stuff, thanks.

[probiner]

Redone.

Pipeline:
Retopology in 3D Coat 3.0-Alpha. Here i tryed to aply the base corrections to the flow. This is a great way to change the topology of a model you already have.

With the retopology mesh, model back and forward in Lightwave and with Sculpt Tools in Mesh mode, in Modo.

The second model came out different cause i couldn't stop myself of making modifications to the last one and has lot more polycount and poles but i like it better tough.

Richard, i copied your flow and slightly changed it in spots like the mouth and jaw. Your flow worked great and i realised a lot of stuff by copying it, especially in the mouth and in the forhead.
I understood that the flow influences the quality of the diplacement maps application. The more correct flow will displace polygons betters. I also found working in Modo to tweak the mesh better with this flow since the modifications were along with it and not diagonal.

(ZOOM the Images) 1- Image os the flow i used and the one after the Retopology. 2- Image of the pipeline and the before and after results.

I still have a lot of learning about modelling (everything still looks cheesy to me) but i understood some good stuff with this practice.

Any critics or notices?

Cheers

[Surrealist.]

Yeah those are definitely great improvements. The poly flow on my head example is just very very basic. Just to get the overall form of the head and point out the broad strokes. There are no details around the nose for instance.

There is an edge loop like this that works really well:

http://www.lightwiki.com/images/2/25/EdgeLoop.gif

The only pointer I could make at this time would be to visit the WIP galleries here and on other boards and look for exceptional human modeling and take a look at the polyflow. Ask for it if they don't give it. Basically do anything to look at and copy polyflow of other good artists.

It is nice to see you making improvements. :thumbsup:

Keep it up and you'll get past the technique eventually. Just remember to model a lot! :)

[probiner]

Hi again Richard, I did an edge loop a bit like that. Basicly i extended the end of the nose and left behind a ring like that, or something like that.

Yeah good tips. Seeing many flows helped. Ty for the advices.

Just remember to model a lot! :)

just like drawing hun? :D

[Surrealist.]

Yep. Just like anything you want to get good at. :hey: