Allow Double Alpha Wipes

[Rich Deustachio]

Digital Juice has some really nice Swipes that we can use but we cannot use the Double Alpha Wipes which are very similar to DVEs.

Being able to use these right on the timeline as most other editing systems can would be a great and powerful feature.

[Richvideo]

I agree

[joseburgos]

I don't own any of them but from looking at what it is, you should be able to use it with no problem in VT-SE and convert it to a DVE using Aura.

Take care,

[ScorpioProd]

SE doesn't have a masking capability, it's not that simple. You couldn't use it "directly" in SpeedEDIT as-is.

If you could make a DVE with it, that would work, but that defeats being able to use it directly and "quickly".

[billmi]

Yep - just adding the ability for one clip to be applied as an alpha to another would do it, but until/unless that's added, it won't be a "drop it into the timeline and go" operation.

Converting to a DVE would work though, and once converted, it would be easier/faster to use than using it as a double-alpha transition.

Conversion time shouldn't take more than a minute or two - but you'd need to own Aura, and have the DVE wipe generator plugin to do the conversion.

[Rich Deustachio]

I know the workarounds and appreciate all of the workaround posts, but since this is a "feature request" section I am requesting a feature that SE/VT5SE doesn't have and most other NLEs do have.

I know what Newtek would have to add to SE for this to work and that is the reason for my request. Not only for the use of Digital Juice Alpha Wipes, but by adding that capability would make SE a much more powerful NLE. Although converting the Alphas to a DVE would work it would not give SE the addition power.

[joseburgos]

Yeah I would agree, we need mattes.

[billmi]

Not only for the use of Digital Juice Alpha Wipes, but by adding that capability would make SE a much more powerful NLE.

That's right on the money, Rich.

[Richvideo]

I don't understand why Newtek does not just work out a deal with Digital Juice and sell us Swipes for our NLE? The hard graphic work is already done, all Newtek needs to do is convert the clips to DVEs for us.
It is bad enough that we don't have access to popular NLE plugins, it would be nice if we could at least enhance our system with new DVE packs once in a while.

[gymcoach]

how would you convert it in aura?

[DiscreetFX]

We are able to convert any Swipes to work in SpeedEDIT, TriCaster or VT[5] for customers.

[Richvideo]

We are able to convert any Swipes to work in SpeedEDIT, TriCaster or VT[5] for customers.

Have you approached Digital Juice and asked them if you could license Swipes packages for Newtek NLE's ?

[SBowie]

I don't understand why Newtek does not just work out a deal with Digital Juice and sell us Swipes for our NLE?Certainly, converting 'double-alpha' swipes to DVE's seems entirely possible, Rich. Anyone with some time on their hands and a copy of Aura could do it, just as I converted Kermit's (Pixellan style) 'Binary Dairy' set long ago. It's basically just one more layer (the color overlay) to deal with.

I doubt that would satisfy those who want direct per layer matte (and spline-based matte) support in SE, though. Simple conversion would mean you could purchase a new set of DVEs. Adding integrated matte support would let you directly use all current and any new swipes (or similar products) as well as providing a great deal more power. I also have to question the size of the market for third-party DVEs. Given the amount of work some have put into them, I don't think the return has been overwhelming.

[Richvideo]

Certainly, converting 'double-alpha' swipes to DVE's seems entirely possible, Rich. Anyone with some time on their hands and a copy of Aura could do it, just as I converted Kermit's (Pixellan style) 'Binary Dairy' set long ago. It's basically just one more layer (the color overlay) to deal with.

I doubt that would satisfy those who want direct per layer matte (and spline-based matte) support in SE, though. Simple conversion would mean you could purchase a new set of DVEs. Adding integrated matte support would let you directly use all current and any new swipes (or similar products) as well as providing a great deal more power. I also have to question the size of the market for third-party DVEs. Given the amount of work some have put into them, I don't think the return has been overwhelming.

Hi,
Yes I understand that it would be easy to use Swipes if the VT had that feature, but it does not.
I don't have the time to try to experiment with Aura to make the conversions to DVEs. I just would be happy if Newtek or someone would offer some quality DVE add ons.
We never really had a great collection of third party DVEs for the system. The ones people created looked like old wipes for the Newtek Flyer or were just too weird to be useful to most of us.
The Swipes collection would be nice for the type of work that I do..High end Bar and Bat Mitzvahs. A nice fade or cut is powerful but for the Mitzvahs you need to add some fun wipes to the edit.

[Richvideo]

P.S.
I did buy one swipes package and I could use them in the VT as an overlay but it would work better as an DVE.
I used a few in this montage I did last year.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7LuUUZsef0

[SBowie]

We never really had a great collection of third party DVEs for the system.I do agree that DJ does a really nice job ... classy and useful stuff.

[DiscreetFX]

I don't understand why Newtek does not just work out a deal with Digital Juice and sell us Swipes for our NLE? The hard graphic work is already done, all Newtek needs to do is convert the clips to DVEs for us.
It is bad enough that we don't have access to popular NLE plugins, it would be nice if we could at least enhance our system with new DVE packs once in a while.

Did you forget we offer lots of DVE's for NewTek editing solutions? We will not keep doing it though if sales don't pick up.

http://www.discreetfx.com/products.html

[Richvideo]

Did you forget we offer lots of DVE's for NewTek editing solutions? We will not keep doing it though if sales don't pick up.

http://www.discreetfx.com/products.html

Hi Bill,
I am aware of your collections, but the DJ stuff fits my tastes a little better than the ones that you offer.
~Rich

[DiscreetFX]

Understood, DJ makes some nice stuff. We can convert those to work with NewTek editing solutions for you.

[DiscreetFX]

@Richvideo

What types of DVEs are you looking for in the future? We are always asking customers and potential customers what they need. It will help us create products you need for your productions. Leo Laporte from TWIT (This Week in Tech) uses and loves our stuff.

[Richvideo]

@Richvideo

What types of DVEs are you looking for in the future? We are always asking customers and potential customers what they need. It will help us create products you need for your productions. Leo Laporte from TWIT (This Week in Tech) uses and loves our stuff.

I like these
http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=429&tab=t3#tabs


http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=509&tab=t3#tabs

http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=508&tab=t3#tabs

http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=433&tab=t3#tabs

If sales are not that great, why bother to do the work yourself? Work a deal out with DJ and split the profit. You do the marketing for the Newtek DVE add ons packs.

[DiscreetFX]

I don't think Swipes are selling well either, over the weekend DJ had an offer to get a Swipes of your choice for $1. DiscreetFX does not want to be in that bottom feeding business. Our animators get paid royalty per sale. We would not sell for $1 or even $10 and loose money. It would not be fair to our LW 3D animators that work hard to create the animations.

[Richvideo]

I don't think Swipes are selling well either, over the weekend DJ had an offer to get a Swipes of your choice for $1. DiscreetFX does not want to be in that bottom feeding business. Our animators get paid royalty per sale. We would not sell for $1 or even $10 and loose money. It would not be fair to our LW 3D animators that work hard to create the animations.

:)
You would have to ask David Hebel about his ideas related to sales of his products.
He has done well in a hard tech biz since 92.

[DiscreetFX]

I know David, he is a great guy and a smart business man. We don't run our content creation operation out of India so can't afford to and don't want to sell products created by our hard working talented LW3D 9.5 animators for $1-10 dollars. Different business models I guess. If that means we sell a few less product so be it. Business because of the current economy collapse will be slow for the next 12-18 months minimum anyway no matter how cheap luxury software products cost. Selling products at that low of a price can't sustain a US based business long term.

[Rich Deustachio]

I don't think Swipes are selling well either, over the weekend DJ had an offer to get a Swipes of your choice for $1. DiscreetFX does not want to be in that bottom feeding business. Our animators get paid royalty per sale. We would not sell for $1 or even $10 and loose money. It would not be fair to our LW 3D animators that work hard to create the animations.

Well DJ was selling your choice of one swipe set for $1 if you purchase anything else $16.95 or more. They were closing out some of their Jumpbacks that they made plenty of money on. In the last week I probably spent over $100 in specials from them and got to see some of their new stuff too so I guess their marketing is working.

[DiscreetFX]

DJ makes some great products and if selling Swipes for $1 if you spend $16.95 works for them cool. We will not be doing business that way though.

[Rich Deustachio]

Well they were selling off old products that are being discontinued. Makes sense for them I guess, and when they come out with new products at full price they increased their customer base who will probably buy what they need at full price.

Sometimes it pays to help us "bottom feeders" now so when things get better in the future we will remember and buy then as well.

[DiscreetFX]

I totally understand Rich, it never hurts to get a great deal on software and DJ has offered a lot of them. We are also DJ customers, not Swipes but SoundFX and VideoTraxx. We sold DJ some of their first hard drives at great low prices back in 1994 when they were a very tiny company and DiscreetFX was not even born yet. David & Viv have worked hard since the Amiga days and have a cool outfit. If you want something free or cheap from us you could always listen to NewsTek.

LOL

http://www.amigaz.org/category/newstek/

We did offer a DVE collection for free back in Halloween 2007, steal a fantasy promotion. FantasyFX for free, it crashed our website and we sent out hundreds of CD-ROMs of the product for free. A costly expense for us I might add. That was a one time good deal though. We also have contests from time to time.

[Richvideo]

I know David, he is a great guy and a smart business man. We don't run our content creation operation out of India so can't afford to and don't want to sell products created by our hard working talented LW3D 9.5 animators for $1-10 dollars. Different business models I guess. If that means we sell a few less product so be it. Business because of the current economy collapse will be slow for the next 12-18 months minimum anyway no matter how cheap luxury software products cost. Selling products at that low of a price can't sustain a US based business long term.

I agree,
I don't mind paying a fair price for a quality product that I can make use of.
My point was since Dave's creation costs are lower than yours and you don't want to invest time and money into a product that you are not sure will sell, does it not make sense to see if Dave will sell the collections to you for a wholesale price and you do the conversion and charge what you feel is fair for a niche product to us Newtek users?

[Rich Deustachio]

I remember that, very good marketing as well. I was only kidding with the bottom feeder comment, no hard feelings! :)

Things are tough in my area for video production and many have slashed prices just to stay a float. Times won't stay bad forever and someday we can all get back to regular pricing.

Back to the original subject, making a DVE out of the Alpha Swipes is a great idea because it does make them easier to use in SE/VT5SE but would all welcome the ability to have more power in SE as well.

[Rich Deustachio]

I like these
http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=429&tab=t3#tabs


http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=509&tab=t3#tabs

http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=508&tab=t3#tabs

http://www.digitaljuice.com/products/products.asp?pid=433&tab=t3#tabs

If sales are not that great, why bother to do the work yourself? Work a deal out with DJ and split the profit. You do the marketing for the Newtek DVE add ons packs.

I had ordered the gonna celebrate one! Very nice! Great for event video.

[ScorpioProd]

Remember, Eric Pratt had a few collections of DVEs he made for VT... They didn't sell well and he withdrew them.

It's hard getting VT users to part with their money, a number of third-party developers can tell you that.

Harder than other NLE users? Perhaps.

[DiscreetFX]

Leo L of TechTV & TWIT fame likes our stuff so at least we are doing something right.

http://www.amigaz.org/2008/09/11/newstek-episode-4-leo-laporte-and-the-tricaster/

[Richvideo]

Remember, Eric Pratt had a few collections of DVEs he made for VT... They didn't sell well and he withdrew them.

It's hard getting VT users to part with their money, a number of third-party developers can tell you that.

Harder than other NLE users? Perhaps.

I had every Eric Pratt collection my name was actually on the credits for one set because of my input, they were good but still looked like Flyer DVEs and some of them were just weird.ex A flying syringe ??? They don't compare to the DJ stuff.

I feel that the third party add ons do not sell well because the VT was not made to work with them..The integration is not as clean and the add ons might not have the power to speed things up as much as some After Effects plugins do. I buy plugins all the time for After Effects because many of them are powerful and help me create a better final product easily.

[DiscreetFX]

@Richvideo

It could also be because the economy is in the toilet. If you want to try some new DVEs we can give you FTP access to five new ones from the CarFX Metal & Chrome collection.

[Rich Deustachio]

Remember, Eric Pratt had a few collections of DVEs he made for VT... They didn't sell well and he withdrew them.

It's hard getting VT users to part with their money, a number of third-party developers can tell you that.

Harder than other NLE users? Perhaps.

I purchased Eric's DVEs, I still use them today. The wedding DVE pack is very useful as well as the Triad pack. They we not cheesie effects, they were very well done and fit into many event situations. I don't over use them but used in the correct place really spices up the video.

[DiscreetFX]

Yup, Eric did a great job on those, bummer he stopped making DVEs.

[Bobt]

It was harder than he wanted. If the lw plugin did more and did it better then maybe there would be more. Lw connect was cool but the limitations in lw made it very hard to do. Robert Wilson can tell. You how hard it was.

[Richvideo]

I purchased Eric's DVEs, I still use them today. The wedding DVE pack is very useful as well as the Triad pack. They we not cheesie effects, they were very well done and fit into many event situations. I don't over use them but used in the correct place really spices up the video.

I still use them too, since that is all I have a choice of....They were good for the time. Some of the wedding ones were the ones that I asked him to create.
These DVE's were made a long time ago. The CPUs were slower back then.
It took a CRAZY amount of time to render and compile the DVEs. The compiler was slow and buggy. Eric busted his butt making them and it is appreciated.

Today we have better tools for creating graphic content for this system. The computers render faster, LW is better, you have nice particle generators like Particle illusion.If Eric had this stuff back then I think that he would have made more sets.

[Richvideo]

@Richvideo

It could also be because the economy is in the toilet. If you want to try some new DVEs we can give you FTP access to five new ones from the CarFX Metal & Chrome collection.


Thanks for the offer..I would be happy to take a look at them.

Email is Richvideo@aol.com

[ScorpioProd]

Today we have better tools for creating graphic content for this system. The computers render faster, LW is better, you have nice particle generators like Particle illusion.If Eric had this stuff back then I think that he would have made more sets.
Yeah, but is there a better LW plug-in for DVE creation?

I remind everyone that ALL DVEs currently are SD-only, beyond the tiny subset of non-fancy ones included with the current SE (and current SE-VT).

[joseburgos]

No there is not a new DVE plug-in and I have asked about it also.
Need a new one that can make HD DVE's and be nice if it rendered faster :)

But in the mean time, I really wish Newtek would at mattes to SE.
Many, many people have asked forever and it just never happens.
At this point, I have to assume it is one huge task to implement but so what.
We want it (hands on hips with mean face).

Take care,

[Rich Deustachio]

I remember before they "rewrote the editor from the ground up" we all thought there was going to be some large features added. One of them that has been asked for a long time is the subject of this thread but was never added.

So I am guessing that it would take another major upgrade, rewriting the editor to make this happen and with the current focus on Tricaster I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Please Newtek employees, don't post that you put equal time into SE as you do Trcaster because from where I am standing I don't see it, and I believe other feel the same way.

[SBowie]

Please Newtek employees, don't post that you put equal time into SE as you do Trcaster because from where I am standing I don't see it, and I believe other feel the same way.Speaking just from my own perspective, I'm sure no-one at NewTek is glad another SE update hasn't arrived long since. This by no means indicates, however, that a good deal of work hasn't been done on it that has yet to see the light of day (but doubtless will when it is completely ready). It would be a mistake to conclude, as well, that it is anything like as simple as 'pulling the SE dev team away to work on TC'. The fact is that SE is not just a standalone product, but is intertwined with the entire lineup ... including major future products.

It's a bit like a three-legged race from where I sit. As work on various projects advance toward fruition, the unreleased core of SE takes forward steps as well. Still, this inter-relationship may mean that at any given time there are aspects of both that are playing catchup, holes being plugged, necessary features partially fulfilled or awaiting completion of some other related module.

I'm certainly in no position to say which of a number of projects will cross the finish line first. I don't think it will be a 'photo-finish', but the front runners are fairly tightly grouped, so it promises to be an exciting year ... but I know for a fact the engineering team has been very hard at work, and certainly not just on TC. I'm inclined to think that, once several really huge projects are shipping, this integration - which may seem to have slowed things down over the last while - will also turn out to be the driving impetus behind continual progress with respect to SE.

Just my 2 cents ...

[Richvideo]

Related link
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93976

[ScorpioProd]

I remember before they "rewrote the editor from the ground up" we all thought there was going to be some large features added.

Except that's not at all what they did, nor what they now claim that they ever said they did.

Rich, do you have any links to where the "rewrote the editor from the ground up" was stated? Cause I remember the same thing, as do others I've asked, and yet as of yesterday, Andrew stated the following:

"SpeedEDIT was not a re-write of VT-Edit; I do not think that I have ever represented that it was."

Needless to say, this is not what you or I or other people I've asked remember, and I find that rather strange.

[Richvideo]

Except that's not at all what they did, nor what they now claim that they ever said they did.

Rich, do you have any links to where the "rewrote the editor from the ground up" was stated? Cause I remember the same thing, as do others I've asked, and yet as of yesterday, Andrew stated the following:

"SpeedEDIT was not a re-write of VT-Edit; I do not think that I have ever represented that it was."

Needless to say, this is not what you or I or other people I've asked remember, and I find that rather strange.


Well this is the only SE post that I could find related to development
http://www.videotoasternt.com/forums/read.cgi?51407

[SBowie]

There can clearly be no question that peeling SE away from VT, along with adding its many substantial new features involved much brand new work - probably right down to the foundation in some matters. That said and despite any statements about 'new beginnings' made at the time or since, I really seriously doubt that anyone ever meant to officially imply every line of code in SE was brand new. It should go without saying that much existing work was retained, as is plain to all beholders. I really don't know why this would even be a topic for serious discussion.

Over the years it has sometimes seemed that there is a tendency to latch onto a particular expression (or impression), then dredge it up later to sandbag or (to borrow a word from another person's post yesterday) 'bait' a discussion should events not turn out precisely as an individual hoped for, or perhaps just run late. I've little doubt that avoiding this pitfall is one* of the reasons staff sometimes does not participate more liberally in public discussions of potential features, details of implementations, and so on. A casual, musing remark can easily be invested with the weight of words carved in stone. Of course, an official announcement can and should be taken as such.

The practical reality is that twists, turns, surprises, roadblocks and unexpected opportunities *always* result in adjustments to development plans. It's not unusual in the least for some slight glitch that appears when deadlines are tight to mean something is pulled just before a release, or for some valuable but unforeseen item that is a 'low-hanging fruit' to be added even if it means a little delay. Likewise, putting 'icing on a cake' - say, a specific feature that is not ideal - that will ultimately be discarded and replaced by something entirely new but which is not yet complete is clearly time wasted. But one might not yet wish to reveal information about the new approach for competitive reasons - end result, no update, no comment.

I'm told there is an old African proverb which goes something like this: "If a man is of a mind to beat his dog, he will not lack for a stick." Unfortunately, what may seem at the time to be a casual, general, friendly discussion can leave the ground strewn with sticks that some will later isolate and take up in a less friendly context. As a single word in error can mean some are disappointed that a pet notion is not followed up in the manner or schedule expected, keeping quiet about specifics seems rather wise.

(* Other factors are doubtless involved too; everyone has is a ton of work to attend to, along with the desire to keep new concepts close to one's chest for obvious competitive reasons.)

[Rich Deustachio]

Except that's not at all what they did, nor what they now claim that they ever said they did.

Rich, do you have any links to where the "rewrote the editor from the ground up" was stated? Cause I remember the same thing, as do others I've asked, and yet as of yesterday, Andrew stated the following:

"SpeedEDIT was not a re-write of VT-Edit; I do not think that I have ever represented that it was."

Needless to say, this is not what you or I or other people I've asked remember, and I find that rather strange.

Sorry I don't have a link to that but I know I either was told in person or read it on the forums that it was a re-write of VT-Edit by a NewTek employee. This was in response to why it was taking so long to be completed.

Steve, this isn't just a misinterpretation of someones statement that now varies in some small way. Either SE was re-written from the ground up or it wasn't, and if it wasn't then they shouldn't have said it in response to why it was taking so long to complete.

[billmi]

My impression has always been that the "rewritten from the ground up" phrase was referring to the video processing pipeline within SpeedEdit, not every single bit of code in SpeedEdit. Certainly that portion did have to be written anew, in order to provide resolution flexibility, which was one of SE's key new features. I believe the way video is displayed in the SpeedEdit Output window was also written as fresh code, rather than a modification of the VT Video Monitor.

Obviously not every single part of the software was fresh, as items like the Batch Capture skin, are carry-overs from VT that are unused in SE.

[Rich Deustachio]

Well it doesn't really matter at this point, we still don't have most of the features that were requested many years ago.

[Rich Deustachio]

Here is an out take from a Q&A with Jim Plant.

Q10. When will we see a SpeedEDIT upgrade, and what will be in it?
A. We also have an upgrade planned for SpeedEDIT for later this year. There's lots of cool new stuff in it, but I would say the highlights are the long-requested "sub-projects as overlays" capability, a new interpolated slow motion mode, and better QuickTime support.

LINK -> http://www.videotoasternt.com/forums/read.cgi?52315

No "ground up" statement but it is just an example of some things mentioned that haven't come true.

[ScorpioProd]

A casual, musing remark can easily be invested with the weight of words carved in stone. Of course, an official announcement can and should be taken as such.
So which of those two choices would you consider Newtek's CEO Jim Plant's "interview" to have been?

[SBowie]

So which of those two choices would you consider Newtek's CEO Jim Plant's "interview" to have been?We weren't discussing those remarks, but since you bring it up ... I'm neither able nor going to speak for someone else, but I've already commented on the fact that things sometimes run later than hoped, and a few general reasons this can happen. I've also said I have no doubt at all that everyone at NewTek would like to have seen another SE update earlier rather than later.

Again speaking personally, I've absolutely no doubt the comments you refer to were made in good faith. 'Stuff happens' - in product development and in business (as my earlier post described). I doubt you are seriously suggesting deceit or anything like that, Eugene - which makes me wonder if now you're not just fishing around for the proverbial stick I referred to just for fun.:stumped:

p.s. - in all fairness, the word "planned" in the quote cannot be held to quite the same standard as "promised".

[Rich Deustachio]

Let's be realistic here Steve. Most of the requests have been around since VT3, and that's a very long time ago.

I am not saying it is deceitful in what was said in that interview but you have to admit it doesn't help the argument that they are putting as much resources into the editor as they do Tricaster.

[ScorpioProd]

We weren't discussing those remarks, but since you bring it up ... I'm neither able nor going to speak for someone else, but I've already commented on the fact that things sometimes run later than hoped, and a few general reasons this can happen. I've also said I have no doubt at all that everyone at NewTek would like to have seen another SE update earlier rather than later.

Again speaking personally, I've absolutely no doubt the comments you refer to were made in good faith. 'Stuff happens' - in product development and in business (as my earlier post described). I doubt you are seriously suggesting deceit or anything like that, Eugene - which makes me wonder if now you're not just fishing around for the proverbial stick I referred to just for fun.:stumped:

p.s. - in all fairness, the word "planned" in the quote cannot be held to quite the same standard as "promised".

I don't know Steve... I'm not sure you are able to speak for what I'm suggesting, either... For the same reasons. :)

You're right, "planned" doesn't equal "promised". And no, I'm not calling Jim Plant a liar, I think he believed what he said at the time. But I can't help but make the point that the CEO of a company has the power to make what he says actually happen, if he wants to. Of course, then again, it does depend on his advisors and the people that actually work for him. It's very much like the office of the President, really. Maybe it isn't that great a job being a CEO after all... Except for the money one makes. :hey:

And you work for Newtek, so I wouldn't expect you to agree that there is spin doctoring going on, but of course there is. All companies do that, at least in marketing if nothing else. It's only a venial sin, really.

And as always, it is the user's choice if they decide to stick with Newtek products or not, it's not like Newtek has the power to force anyone to stick around, so what does it really matter? It doesn't.

[SBowie]

Let's be realistic here Steve. Most of the requests have been around since VT3, and that's a very long time ago.Yes, let's be realistic - tons of things have been knocked off the wishlist since VT3. (This doesn't mean there aren't more to go, or that it wouldn't be nice if more had come sooner.)

... you have to admit it doesn't help the argument that they are putting as much resources into the editor as they do Tricaster.Of course they aren't. Who said they were? Different amounts of effort go into different products at different times, even within the TC family lineup. I know nothing about your business, but do you always put an equal amount of time and effort into every aspect of it? Or do you work on all aspects of it continually, but assigning your resources in varying amounts according to both demand, R.O.I., and other factors?

That said, the simple point I've made is that the dev efforts are not mutually exclusive. The editor is undeniably integrated into the TriCaster, and in many cases working on one is working on the other in very real ways. I truly believe that TC proliferation is ultimately going to be one of the driving forces for SE advances.

[SBowie]

But I can't help but make the point that the CEO of a company has the power to make what he says actually happen, if he wants to. Of course, then again, it does depend on his advisors and the people that actually work for him. It's very much like the office of the President, really. Maybe it isn't that great a job being a CEO after all...Eugene, that's just disingenuous. The president of a country, CEO of a company, or one-person video company owner has to weigh a lot of other factors beyond 'advisors and staff'. And even setting that aside, what president in his right mind would tell his staff "We must settle the Middle East problem, drop everything else - and I mean everything".

And you work for Newtek, so I wouldn't expect you to agree that there is spin doctoring going on, but of course there is. All companies do that, at least in marketing if nothing else.Of course I'd agree there's spin in the world of marketing. In any endeavor, marketing highlights strengths and minimizes shortcomings. That's Business 101. But I don't work in marketing. And I haven't made any comments (pro or con) about spin. I don't know why I'd be expected to, since no question had been raised. Since it's come up, I will say that I haven't seen any in this thread. Not a thing I've said is 'spin'; I've written nothing more than my own 100% sincere personal view based on experience not unlike your own.

I fully agree with Andrew's comment (on the VTNT list) wherein he wrote "I am absolutely not playing any kind of "spin" game. When I have seen some posts that seemed technically incorrect or which I felt I could add some factual information, I did my best to help in that regard. Beyond this I have tried to really not get involved or get baited; certainly I am not trying to defend (indeed I think I have acknowledged our weaknesses where relevant,) market or spin anything; if I did in some what then I apologize."

(BTW, in case its not clear to all and sundry, I use the word 'baiting' in the same manner as I believe Andrew intended - to describe attempts to use any and every opportunity to elicit a response by one or another provocative comments.) Frankly, I know what sort of load Dr. Cross has on his plate at this very moment, and was truly astonished that he took time out from an absolutely killer schedule to respond. Whereas I think he tends to offer insight on technical discussions, I am more likely to respond when I really feel a viewpoint that has been expressed is incorrect, overstated, unfair or unfounded.

And as always, it is the user's choice if they decide to stick with Newtek products or not, it's not like Newtek has the power to force anyone to stick around, so what does it really matter? It doesn't.Where has anyone tried to force anyone else to do anything, or denied that users have free choice Eugene?

[EDIT: I'm editing this because, on reflection, I don't want to leave room for anyone to misunderstand what I wrote about "marketing". While marketing by definition involves presenting product in the most favorable light, there's certainly nothing wrong with that. That's an essential contribution (consider what happened to the Amiga as proof). But that is just a fraction of what marketing does, and I wouldn't want their hard work and talent to be denigrated.)

[ScorpioProd]

Eugene, that's just disingenuous. The president of a country, CEO of a company, or one-person video company owner has to weigh a lot of other factors beyond 'advisors and staff'. And even setting that aside, what president in his right mind would tell his staff "We must settle the Middle East problem, drop everything else - and I mean everything".

You're right, Steve... To me, that would be just as disingenuous, by the very same reasons you're stating, for Newtek to say that there's a "dedicated engineering team" only working on SpeedEDIT. I mean, obviously, as business demands, resources will be moved as needed. So one should never take such a statement from anyone at Newtek literally. And yes, Steve, many users did take that statement literally, that it implied a development cycle for SpeedEDIT that the users haven't witnessed in the time since then. And at the very least, that the hope encouraged some users not to move on to other systems when they had been considering it. So as you can imagine, this can cause a good deal of fustration for those users.


Where has anyone tried to force anyone else to do anything, or denied that users have free choice Eugene?
I think you missed my point entirely on that one.

My point was there's nothing further to discuss, if users don't find their Newtek product does what they need, and they don't find they're getting satisfactory answers on Newtek's future plans, they can leave. It seems like a pretty simple and straightforward point to me.

[Rich Deustachio]

Eugene, I am at that decision point this year. I need to upgrade my hardware to run VT5/SE to edit HD/HDV and I am considering two paths. One is to stay the course and upgrade my PC to use VT5/SE and option two is to spend about the same money and go with an Apple system running FCP6.

What plays a large part in my decision is what NewTek does to improve SE/VT5 editor. Not a promise of things to come in a year or two, but what it will do now, this year.

Not being able to edit many of the HD/HDV formats in SE doesn't put a positive check mark in NewTeks list. Neither does not being able to do clean slo-motion.

Option three is to stay with the PC format and go with another PC editor.

One way or another a decision will be made and Newtek will either lose a long time customer or retain one based on what they do with SE.

[SBowie]

I think you missed my point entirely on that one.... Perhaps I'm just thick (that could be) ... but you're right - your meaning wasn't clear to me.

... if users don't find their Newtek product does what they need, and they don't find they're getting satisfactory answers on Newtek's future plans, they can leave.
That is obviously and always true, and not just with respect to NewTek. Frankly, I think any clear thinking and experienced person would agree with Rich's stated intentions. I'd paraphrase this as 'Buy based on your actual needs, and on what's actually on the table'; this has been stated by many people in many ways over the years, and it's good professional counsel. If you need some specific feature and a product doesn't have it, why wouldn't you buy one that does?

With respect to questions about the future, no-one has a crystal ball. To the extent humanly possible (given numerous practical constraints and in the absence of omniscience), I believe straightforward, sincere answers have been given. It must be clear to any adult that if these did not satisfy, continually chipping away trying to get a different answer is not really likely to produce anything useful.

No-one ever said, afaik, that in a few short years 'SE would totally dominate the field', or that it would 'soon have every feature on Eugene's wishlist'. As you modestly admitted in a parallel thread "I guess I really did overestimate the intent and goals of SpeedEDIT".

This does not mean SE is not a cool editor with some innovative features, a tool which many get a lot of use, enjoyment and profit from. Nor does it mean that, since the most recent update is obviously running late, progressive development has not been ongoing. Nor does it mean that things which *have* been promised have been abandoned.

Can't or don't want to wait and see? Carry on, blessings be upon you. Happy to come along for the ride? Excellent news, sorry for the wait - I'm positive everyone is doing their best. Anything left to say on the subject? Nope, exactly as you said "there's nothing further to discuss" - anything further is just reiteration.

[ScorpioProd]

Quite right Steve, I agree with most of your points.

Though I do want to make sure that no one is confused that it's only "Eugene's wishlist" of new features. As the length of that thread (as well as last year's), and the number of different users posting and adding to them shows, a good number of users also want the same features. If it was just me, then I would recommend Newtek NOT implement the feature requests, but if it is a lot of users, and people actually posting being only a small and representative sample of the larger population of users, well...

And I did check your definition of "progessive" in SpeedEDIT's development in the dictionary, and sure enough, it's valid. Being a heavy multimedia user on the net, my normal thought when I hear that word is like in a progressive download, where one doesn't wait for the entire clip to download before one begins to see it. But that's not actually a real definition in the dictionary, so I'll ignore that meaning. :hey:

[joseburgos]

Well I needed to do what was right for my own business and I now have Adobe Production Suite CS4 installed on my system.

Right now I go back and forth between the two programs to get work done.
I did this last week and actually became depressed over it :(

For Live switching, LiveSets and Lightwave, Newtek still rules for me.

[SBowie]

... a good number of users also want the same features.Sure, myself included - I wasn't criticizing the value of items on the list, rather commenting on assumptions related to timing ("soon").

I'll say it yet again, an update with a number of desirable features (severalpromised publicly by NewTek some time back) is, in my own estimation as in yours, overdue. Still, I've got every confidence that the promised items (and more) will ultimately appear (and I have good reason to feel that way).

And I did check your definition of "progessive" in SpeedEDIT's development in the dictionary, and sure enough, it's valid. :D

I'm certainly far from perfect, but I do try very hard not to make inaccurate or misleading statements. What would be the point, anyway? People won't forget what is said (especially in this day and age), and sooner or later the truth comes becomes evident. I'd much rather posterity judge me honest than score a few points in an argument.