3D Models in a website.

[colkai]

Ok folks, another area I am totally clueless in. :p

A friend has asked me if it is possible to put some 3D models / turntables / small animations on a website. I know there are some programs out there that do this sort of thing, but this is for a charity so it's got to be using free software and on a server which is pretty basic.

I know I could probably rustle up some animations, though how to get them small is another problem without losing too much quality. They will be simple things as I say, turntables, 360 degree stuff. I'd be nice though if I could have some "click and open" or QTVR type things where the user can turn the object around themselves.

I have never tackled any interactive 3D before so any advice as to if it is do-able without investing cash is welcome. Plus of course, any hints or tutorial sites I could visit to get a clue would be nice.

I know ages ago there was the whole VMRL / QTVR (?) thing but I'm guessing there are now other methods.

:help:

[adamredwoods]

Flash. But Flash is not free.

You could just render out a 3D model 360 degrees (left right) in Quicktime, then a web browser can scrub through the timeline to see the rotation. This is probably the best, easiest solution.

Flash could take the same interface and provide a nice interface for it, but on the same principle as the Quicktime.
Flash could also use Papervision3D to let a viewer see a low-polygon version, but allow for zooming in and out, as well as rotation in any direction. Code is available for this type of thing, so one doesn't need to program all day.

QTVR is becoming more obscure, so it's not as common anymore. VMRL is very obscure these days.

[Bog]

Not *entirely* sure what you're after, but if you don't mind your object only being visible in IE, and then only on XP and Vista, you could use the free version of Shaxam to turn your object into a XAML mesh and show it that way.

Other than that, you could render a QTVR and embed it in the page, if you wanted all your nicely-rendered thingages. There may be other options, but I can't immediately think of any...

[Sekhar]

I'd also recommend Flash and specifically using Papervision3D, which is a Flash library for real time 3D (Away3D is another popular one) - it's similar to the old VRML/Shockwave, except it's in Flash, so won't need special plugins on the client side (a huge deal). The big plus over QTVR is the way smaller size and the ability to navigate in real time (vs. limited moves in QTVR).

You can build Flash with Adobe Flex SDK, which is free - download it from adobe.com. You can get Papervision3D from code.google.com. And if you google, you'll find plenty of examples on how to code.

The big problem with PV3D though is that it's still in beta and is quite flaky. The examples you find on the web are all over the place and may or many not work with the latest build, so be prepared to spend time coding/debugging.

Also, in terms of quality, there's a lot of aliasing, with really ugly edges. I've got acceptable (pretty good, actually) results by baking all the surfaces in LW and using PV3D to simply show the model with the textures. I.e., ignore the primitives, shaders, etc. in the PV3D library - they're quite lame at this point, IMO.

BTW, depending on the size/scope/timeline of your project, I might be able to do this for you for free. I started my own marketing firm recently (http://www.allurefx.com) and I'm looking to build credits/links/references quickly. PM me if you're interested.

[fjong]

here is simple and free semi 3d solution http://www.thoro.de/portfolio/verschiedenes/3DNP.html
and btw the x3d format is the new vrml .. http://www.web3d.org/

[colkai]

Thanks guys.
As I said, this is a favour for the charity I volunteer for so there is zero cash to spare, (especially at this time of year, no punters, bigger heating and food bills), so anything I do will have to be free.

Bog: Would Shaxam allow any 'animation' facilities?

Did play about with QTVR last night, push comes to shove, I think I can live with that as it's nothing "massive" and so they don't want me "wasting my time" too much on it. (Not least of which because I'm having to revamp their website over winter :p).

[archijam]

Technically you can animate a VRML type model, but it's a massive pain in the butt, often requires additional installs, runs differently between platforms/plugins, etc etc.

I would go animated GIF/QT and save myself the pain.

[Bog]

Col;

The freebie versh of Shaxam just punts out textured geometry. You could use MS Blend to animate turntables or add viewing controls. If you wanted to export animated, lit scenes or animate Morph Mixer animations, you'd need to use the Pro version which is 50 Euros. It depends how codey you are, really. Just sayin' it's there as an option.

*edit* Just read the bit about not wanting to waste your time - as you were, then! ;)

[Sekhar]

If simple is what you want, use Deep Exploration. You open the LW and save as VRML or Shockwave. That's it. These are ready to open in the browser, with all textures. You can download DE for a trial that lasts 30 days, enough for your project.

Another option is WireFusion. It produces great looking interactive 3D, is very easy to use, keeps textures, and yes they have a free version. They're based on Java, so viewers don't need any explicit client side installs, though it runs into problems on some browsers.

[Andrewstopheles]

I strongly recommend WireFusion. I have the paid version (very expensive) but the free version is fully functional. It is very fast and easy to work with.

www.demicron.com

See a sample on our website at www.acaavproductions.com/packagingdemo.html

Good luck!

[colkai]

Thanks folks, You know, I'm almost sure I have a copy of wirefusion someplace off a 3DWorld CD, must check, if not, I'll toddle over to the site.

Mark, if I had some money, I would think if Shaxam, but penny saving is becoming a needs-must situation lately, (same for us all I guess :p).

Weekend is here so good time to have a nose about :)

Alas, trying the 'folding animation' on the example Andres pointed to crashes Firefox. :(

[starbase1]

If I can nudge in here...

As we seem to have lots of people who know about displaying your Lightwave 3d stuff outside of Lightwave, does anyone know of a nice way of putting LW objects into a simple screensaver, so you can see one gently tumble on screen?

Nick

[DiedonD]

Col;

The freebie versh of Shaxam just punts out textured geometry. You could use MS Blend to animate turntables or add viewing controls. If you wanted to export animated, lit scenes or animate Morph Mixer animations, you'd need to use the Pro version which is 50 Euros. It depends how codey you are, really. Just sayin' it's there as an option.

*edit* Just read the bit about not wanting to waste your time - as you were, then! ;)

Hey Mark

I was thinking about your plugin the other day. See, we were about to export goods from here, but the customer wanted to know too many details. Like how will the goods be placed inside the wooden coil. So, I was thinking of modeling a few boxes that represented our goods, and put them inside a semi transparent box that represented the coil. Perhaps add numeric dimensions to them all aswell, perhaps though.

But in order for them to see the model, unless they have LW that is, and it is highly unlikely that they do have any 3D package, theyd need some free download where they could then see my work, in its 3D features. Basic stuff, rotate, zoom in and out kinda stuff, that we all have in LW, but with a free, and easy to use for non artists type of thing.

Does your plugin offers such solutions? Id model my coils with goods in it in above mentioned way, and then can it be inserted in that pro plugin of yours, and after they download the free version, can then they see my coils, turn them around, zoom in an out in 3D with dimensions, just like you were turning that heart on that video?

[colkai]

Well, it turns out, brain of Britain here has been too "tidy". :(
Issue 83 of 3DWorld has Wirefusion 4.0 professional on it, I've got the tutorial, I've got my registered serial no, but numpty has thrown out his feckin' CD's thinking he wouldn't need them any more. :censored::cursin::bangwall:

EDIT: cool - turns out I have an older version still (3.2) which doesn't handle 3D normally but DID come with a 3D importer and I have the code for that. Seems at some point, I did actualyl own a brain cell or two. :D
So managed to create a VRML out of LW which I pulled into Wirefusion and exported as WRL in a web page which I've tested on my website. Now I just need to sit down and learn WireFusion to see if I can create a scene with baked textures and animation in Wire Fusion.
If anyone has any pointers I'm all ears! :)

[guardonduty]

WINDOWS MOVIE MAKER..VISTA version

[colkai]

Ok, now I'm one stage further, but I can't seem to get any animation out.
I'd like to have the doors of a cupboard open by clicking on them in Wirefusion, it seems as if there is some way to do this as it mentions something called touch sensors, but Even though I've set up a door open anima from frame 0 to 30, it doesn't seem to get out to VRML / Wirefusion.
Does anyone have any pointers to suitable tutorial URLs on this please?

[archijam]

I may have read wrongly, but isn't that one of the limitations of the free version?

[Sekhar]

If I can nudge in here...

As we seem to have lots of people who know about displaying your Lightwave 3d stuff outside of Lightwave, does anyone know of a nice way of putting LW objects into a simple screensaver, so you can see one gently tumble on screen?

Nick

May be something like http://www.photojoy.com/ is all you need. Just 2D, but if you feed it your still renders, you might like what comes out.

[colkai]

I may have read wrongly, but isn't that one of the limitations of the free version?

Looks more like a limitation of the old 3.2
Finally got the Version 5 one installed and it loads up an object with animation. Published it ok too, just need ot figure out now how to toggle it so click open / click close. :)

[Andrewstopheles]

re: crashing Firefox: The folding animation is a video - in quicktime if I remember correctly - so it is not a reflection on Wirefusion if it crashes your browser, to be fair. I had problems with playing animations in Wirefusion - it would animate vertex data from 3D Max or Blender but not LW for some reason, although any scaling, rotation or translation animations work correctly form Lightwave.
If I pick this project back up again I will take it into one of those packages to create the interactive folding animation.

[colkai]

Yup, been reading on the Demicron forums, it seems WF has a couple of problems with LW which the are working on and a big one with the latest Java 6.11 update. My older versions ceased to work at all, eventually, I decided to roll back Java and whaddya know? It's all ok again.
Large argument against automatic update right there! :p
Not got my anim reversed, but have got it to reset on a button click so that's good, now spending some time sorting out baking so it looks pretty-ish in the applet rather than the mess it looks now. ;)

The best part of all this of course is it is all for free, that price, me likey! :D :D

[Sekhar]

Java applet based approaches are fundamentally flawed and too flaky for professional use, IMO. If you're going to deploy using WireFusion using the Java applet, expect frequent problems like slow startups, poor operation, browser specific issues, etc. It (applet) is a mess.

What's amazing is that Sun's brand new JavaFX (http://javafx.com) based on applet and one that's supposed to kill Flash and SilverLight is a total disaster because of the Java compatibility/performance problems of the kind you're seeing.

I was very excited with WireFusion when I first tried it (good quality, ease of use, no need for plug-in installs, etc.), but the applet issue was a killer. Right now, going with Flash seems like a complete no-brainer.