VT PAL version

[mixas]

Hello,

Currently I'm looking for video editing system and some time ago I found out about VT. I was reading posts on this forum and have smoe unanswered questions.

As I'm from Lithuania, i need PAL version of VT. I understand, most of you are using NTSC version enjoying new VT[3].

A week ago I started to talk to local dealers, who sell VT. I know, one of the dealers even has a demo VT workstation. But I couldn't make him do some demo for me, nor he let me put my fingers on the system to check how it works.
The other dealer after consultig with some abroad partners, said that PAL VT is not stable enough.

So at the moment I'm a little bit lost. What I need is a PC hosted video editing system, which would be used for video editing (Toster Edit used hevily). I do not need live switching.
I think VT shoud be ok for that. I see advantages of PC hsted systems "independent of hardware streams, etc" - if you need more power - just by more powerful PC. I do not like those hardware based systems, where you get,say, two realtime streams, a couple of realtime effects - no matter how powerfull is your PC. And you are quite limited with file formats in such hardware systems.
For more than 7 years I've been working in audio industry. I saw the turn from hardware based audio systems to computer hosted audio systems (when computers go enough cumputing power). The same is going to happen/happening in video industry.

So, I wonder, if there are some VT PAL users (I gues in Europe), who could share their experience .

I understand, than Newtek still keeps silent about VT[3] PAL release. Still, VT[2] seems to be flexible and powerfull solution for production studio.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

mxs

[JReble]

I think you should find better dealers. As I understand it, the VT2 and VT3 are both NTSC and PAL. The device is the same for both formats. It supports both PAL and NTSC without the need for a different version so it's been well tested by people everywhere.

The only PAL specific issue I can recall in recent memory was a minor issue with some effects not working properly for pal formats. Otherwise the system should work the same for PAL users as with anyone else since it's just an issue of selecting the pal RTV codec from the long list of formats in Toaster Edit. Maybe somebody in a PAL region can correct me if I'm wrong about any of that.

[mblade]

I use the VT2 (Pal) almost all day, every day. I think every job we do here goes through it, whether its for video or web, whether its camera footage, lightwave graphics, or After Effects sequences. I normally have 5 large jobs on the go at any one time and the toaster laps it up.

I do work for several LARGE multinationals, including some big drug companies and some automotive manufacturers. Whilst I wouldn't be so big headed as to say we have never had any negative feedback from clients, I can honestly say none of it has been because of the Toaster.

It has frequently embarrassed several big boys. I have worked with directors who are used to working on Avids (of at least 10 times the price) who have initially looked down the noses at the system. Very quickly they have been surprised at how much you can do in real time (particullarly positioning shots). We do a lot of work at 16x9 using camera footage shot at 4x3. We just slap a letterbox overlay over the top and shift the camera shots up and down underneath to select the best crop. Always realtime, always surprisingly powerful. Combine that with a stack of graphics on top and a bit of colour correction and jaws start dropping at just how fast you can be. If half the things I've been hearing about VT3 are true (3d positioning, soft edges, splines, batch capture) then we could be going to a whole new level again.

Of course there are limitations with the VT system (although a lot of them have been addressed in VT3). I still don't trust sub-projects very much and rarely use them. The number of real time effects is fairly limited and since the SDK (anybody listening?) is still unavailable, those of us who would like to help are being held back. The look and feel of the VT2 interface didn't do justice to the power behind it (fixed in VT3 with titanium). I think a few PAL users were slightly fed up about the delay in getting their hands on VT3 (why can't we download it now?).

I guess in summary what I'm trying to say is that you should NOT buy a Toaster system. By an Avid or an 844/X at 10 times the price, turn out inferior work which is too expensive, and then go bust leaving me to pick up all the juicy work from clients who can't believe what they've been paying for so long...
;)

Do the sensible thing...

James

[mixas]

Originally posted by JReble
I think you should find better dealers. ..

if I go through with buing and setup VT and everything will work fine, i will consider becomeing local vt deler- "not beeing afraid to shouw others what;s behind VT" :) :) :)

mxs

[kleima]

Jreble is right, there is no PAL version and NTSC version. The same VT does both! I don't know why the "PAL" people are always complaining about being left behind. Maybe, it simply does not become available as quickly other countries. Maybe there is some delay in waiting for PAL DVE's? I'm not sure about that, but I do know that my VT[3] (and T[2], for that matter) does both PAL and NTSC with no add-ons and no additional software, or price.

[Keith Gandy]

Here is my .02 in the matter. I am a european user (PAL), but do occasionally convert to NTSC. Yes, there is no technical handicap to the system - a system acquired in the US can be used in a PAL environment.

Here are the three drawbacks. First, without the PAL DVE's, you are limitted to a crossfade. That is the only one that will work. There might be an exception to that rule, but not according to my experience (albiet I did not attempt them all). Somewhere along the evolutionary timeline of the VT2 build process, PAL DVE's became available and the problem was solved for us.

Second, european prices are 15% higher currently for the product. Add to that the 16%, yes 16%, sales tax and you get a whopping 30% higher price. (BTW - England has a 17.5% sales tax rate).

Third, the VT3 is not even available to PAL users at this point. We are excluded from the Beta testing, then wait on the product. Any input that we would have within our environment is about six months behind stateside. Admitted, some of us don't have the time to devote to Beta testing, but it is not offered as an option.

Having said all that, still no sour grapes on my side. Great product, worth the wait. Would do it again, and again.

[mblade]

However, we have been told that VT2 PAL DVE's will work with VT3. If the version being used outside of Europe at the moment doesn't support PAL it does raise an interesting question. Are current NTSC users prevented from transcoding?

I suspect the reality is that the current release does support PAL perfectly well. Newtek say the delay is partly caused by translating the manuals. Maybe they haven't been to England before....

How frustrating... We gave American's our language 200 years ago and know they get arsey about giving it back. ;)

[James dives for cover after such a provacative statement]

[Keith Gandy]

That is not quite right. NTSC clips will use the NTSC DVE's. Under preferences the output would be set to PAL and away you would go.

But to work from the other side, you would have to convert every PAL clip to NTSC, then edit and output back to PAL. That would be not only an extreme waste of time, it would be a tremendous loss of hard drive.

If you only perform hard cuts or crossfades, then the VT2 and VT3 will work straight out of the box in the PAL environment.

It could be that manuals are a problem, but to this point our manuals are in english. If they go multi-language, ie German, that would be a first. Don't think that is the main reason for the time delay.

[mblade]

So you're saying my VT2 PAL DVE's won't work with VT3.

I hope not, as I made several myself...

[Paul Lara]

There's no change in the DVE engine in VT[3], so any DVE's you've made for T2 will be fine in T3.

[kleima]

Well, sorry about no BETA for you guys, but most of the talk here about VT[3] is from BETA testers, very few of whom have actually recieved the shipping product yet. So, because of the BETA, it may seem like you are six months behind, but as I have not yet received the shipping version, I can guantee you that you are not yet six months behind! :)

[mbloor]

I have been beta testing T3 in PAL and can assure you as Paul has done above that T2 DVE`s work fine in T3.
I still do not have my shipping copy of T3, though I am entitled to it and as far as I know no European users have yet received the shipping copy of T3, but it is only a matter of time I am sure.Most of my American counterparts have however, so to answer the original question just wait a little while longer you will find its worth it... honest
Mark

[kleima]

Well there you go! A beta tester in Europe!