Streaming 640 x 480

[powwows]

Has anyone used the Tricaster to broadcast in this resolution?

I've tried before with other machines before I got the TC. Those machines would crash with the overhead of encoding that high resolution.

I'd like to broadcast it a larger resolution and want to see what others experience is with it.

Does it increase the bandwidth needed to view it?

[bob anderson]

Go into either widows media encoder.. or flash media encoder and create what ever profile you like..

The TriCaster will attempt to stream with the given bit rate.. and will yell at you if you don't have enough bandwidth.

Once you've figured out the proper stream profile..save it with a new name in the /default user/current user/stream profile folder.. and restart your TriCaster/ VT and the new profile should show up in the TriCaster /VT stream profile lists.


Bob Anderson

[powwows]

Anyone tried 640? How is it?

[PIZAZZ]

What you are going to run into is more of a bandwidth issue for sending out the stream than any issues creating the stream at that size. I have successfully tested TC and VT boxes both streaming at 720x480 but this was only on a local network not the internet.

When we did the World Series of Poker earlier this summer, Move Networks brought out their encoders for the job. One Primary and one Backup. They were sending out a stream that was 1.5 megabit at full SD D1 quality. They asked for a internet connection of minimum upload of 5 megabits. The Rio provided us with a very nice 100megabit connection via fiber to the internet. Let's just say that it was not cheap. The number I heard was 5-6k per month. The stream went from Vegas back to a server cloud of 13 servers on the east coast that then replicated the signal out to the viewers.

So all that said, in order to do what you are asking, Streaming 640x480, you will need a REALLY REALLY large internet connection to even send it out reliably. Besides that you will need to plan on nearly 4 times the bandwidth costs to replicate this stream to your viewers across the web.

If you want a higher quality stream I would suggest starting at the basics first.

1. Buy better cameras -- Better quality in makes for better quality out.
2. Use the highest quality cabling connection you can. SD-SDI is the best we can get on the TC line right now.
3. Appropriately light and stage your set -- don't use Gain on the cameras basically because the encoders pick up the gain sparkles and go nuts.

At the recent WSOPE in London, we used Grass Valley LDK6000 Worldcam HD cameras. These are 150K cameras so the quality was literally breathtaking in HD. Our SD tap off the camera CCUs, was equally breathtaking. So we were able to send out a stream that looked outstanding simply because we started with the highest quality image possible.

There is a saying in video and I am paraphrasing here....
Crap in is Crap out. :)

sooooooo if that holds true then
Crap at 320x240 is even bigger crap at 640x480.


Don't mean to be condescending or discouraging but I have found that most newer producers for web content don't seem to have a firm grasp on the basics of video production and think that a bigger stream will always solve their quality issues. That is not always true.

[powwows]

Thanks for the info! My users are screaming for larger video size. I've told them that the bandwidth would just be too big for most people to view.

Most of the places I webcast from give me 15-30 mb/sec speeds. So upload isn't as much of an issue. But down would be.

Didn't know if I could do 640 but send it at at a 350kbps rate?? Would that just look like crap?

I do want to upgrade cameras. So I'll start working on that.

Where can we see the WSOP webcast? Is it being replayed anywhere?

Are you going to webast the November 9?

[PIZAZZ]

Where can we see the WSOP webcast? Is it being replayed anywhere?

Are you going to webast the November 9?

I believe you should be able to view the archive shortly on wsop.com.
I am not sure if they are putting the whole 22 hours shoot up or not.

Regarding the November 9, WSOP will only be streaming the table audio and a stats display. The TV production group 441 will be turning around TV footage into a show for air on November 11th I believe. ESPN didn't want us to show the game live.

You are correct about the upload/download issues with doing a larger stream. Even if you can get the stream up reliably, the viewers will need to have adequate bandwidth to view the stream on the down side.

If you have a good enough quality stream with a higher bandwidth like 500-750kbps then watching that full screen should not be very painful at all.

You could always do what we did for the series and Europe event, hire a satellite truck to uplink the output to a satellite. Then you could downlink the signal at a teleport and encode it there at any size you want. That is what we did to feed into ESPN360 since they insist on using the Move Network encoders/players. The 1.2meg stream looks at good fullscreen as the local SD monitors. You should also look into what offerings Kulabyte has.

Move recently tackled the past dem and rep conventions. They used a CRAZY amount of bandwidth on Level3's vivyx fiber network. Fun stuff.

[powwows]

Unfortunately the events I webcasts don't have the budget to do satellite stuff.

Is it possible on the TC to stream at multiple levels? A 500k 640 stream and a 300k 320 stream?

[PIZAZZ]

Unfortunately the events I webcasts don't have the budget to do satellite stuff.

Is it possible on the TC to stream at multiple levels? A 500k 640 stream and a 300k 320 stream?


I modded a TC a while back to do this by using Windows Media Encoder to do the multistream encode.

I would suggest using an external encoder to do one stream and the TriCaster to do the other. Simpler solution.

[powwows]

Can I go just slightly larger? Like 400 width?

[powwows]

400 x 300?

Would that work? That shouldn't take too much more bandwidth right?

[rally1]

Bump to see of there were any numbers on CPU usage with the new FME 3.0 encoding a 640x360 Flash H.264 stream.

[pensacola]

I broadcast 640x480 to our internal network all the time at 1024. works just fine with a great picture. 720x480 made tricaster crash immediately for some reason.
I can't imagine going to the web at that resolution.

[powwows]

Is it possible on a TC to send out a 750 stream at 640 and a 500 stream at 640 and a 300 stream at 320?

[NRBC_Media]

I haven't tried multiple profiles, but I did trim 1/3 of the bitrate by changing from 20.97 frames to 20 frames per second. I stream 480x270 at 372Kbps. Studies have shown that 18fps is the minimum rate where most will see frames.

[NRBC_Media]

I haven't tried multiple profiles, but I did trim 1/3 of the bitrate by changing from 20.97 frames to 20 frames per second. I stream 480x270 at 372Kbps. Studies have shown that 18fps is the minimum rate where most will see frames.

Typo...
from 29.97 to 20 fps

[mclulow]

What you are going to run into is more of a bandwidth issue for sending out the stream than any issues creating the stream at that size. I have successfully tested TC and VT boxes both streaming at 720x480 but this was only on a local network not the internet.

When we did the World Series of Poker earlier this summer, Move Networks brought out their encoders for the job. One Primary and one Backup. They were sending out a stream that was 1.5 megabit at full SD D1 quality. They asked for a internet connection of minimum upload of 5 megabits. The Rio provided us with a very nice 100megabit connection via fiber to the internet. Let's just say that it was not cheap. The number I heard was 5-6k per month. The stream went from Vegas back to a server cloud of 13 servers on the east coast that then replicated the signal out to the viewers.

So all that said, in order to do what you are asking, Streaming 640x480, you will need a REALLY REALLY large internet connection to even send it out reliably. Besides that you will need to plan on nearly 4 times the bandwidth costs to replicate this stream to your viewers across the web.

If you want a higher quality stream I would suggest starting at the basics first.

1. Buy better cameras -- Better quality in makes for better quality out.
2. Use the highest quality cabling connection you can. SD-SDI is the best we can get on the TC line right now.
3. Appropriately light and stage your set -- don't use Gain on the cameras basically because the encoders pick up the gain sparkles and go nuts.

At the recent WSOPE in London, we used Grass Valley LDK6000 Worldcam HD cameras. These are 150K cameras so the quality was literally breathtaking in HD. Our SD tap off the camera CCUs, was equally breathtaking. So we were able to send out a stream that looked outstanding simply because we started with the highest quality image possible.

There is a saying in video and I am paraphrasing here....
Crap in is Crap out. :)

sooooooo if that holds true then
Crap at 320x240 is even bigger crap at 640x480.


Don't mean to be condescending or discouraging but I have found that most newer producers for web content don't seem to have a firm grasp on the basics of video production and think that a bigger stream will always solve their quality issues. That is not always true.

Dito on this crap-in-crap-out theme and on lighting, camera quality etc. I shoot pro video, I web cast it, and I work in a local TV station. The combination of lens, CC, light and cable quality all critical. Also true with webcams. Even a ceap webcam can look better with good lighting.

[mclulow]

When connected to a network for streaming video, does tricaster act as a windows media server, or does it require configuring in conjunction with a web server. Does it push or can a browser pull from tricaster .

[Paul Lara]

TriCaster can either pull (acting as its own server) or push (connecting to a dedicated Windows Media server).

With a pull, you limit yourself to a few reliable connections, since each 320mb outbound stream takes up that much network bandwidth. Pushing is usually more practical and consumes less bandwidth on your local network.

Paul


When connected to a network for streaming video, does tricaster act as a windows media server, or does it require configuring in conjunction with a web server. Does it push or can a browser pull from tricaster .