How do i realisticially model a head easily?

[adaminator1]

The most usefull tool i know in Modeling is Beveling, and i was wondering how i could use that to model a realistic head without having to learn many new functions. Also, i wanna know how to rig the head aswell :)

Sorry, its just that i wanna make a new web series and i have to be able to model humans and rig them realistically too :)

[Surrealist.]

Won't take too much time to learn the multishift tool which is also a "bevel" tool but you can do it on multiple polygons. You'll need that and some basic tutorial at least on box modeling and preferably - if you can find one free on the web - a tutorial for box modeling a head. There are some commercially available ones such as the ones by Taron. And he uses only a few tools to do it

You'll need at the very least these tools:

MULTISHIFT
MERGE POLYS
SPINQUADS


Then to help you better edit the mesh you'll need:

DRAG TOOL
DRAGNET TOOL

And to help you smooth it all out:

SMOOTH TOOL (shft m).

Look those up in the manual.

Also if you go to the tutorials page here you'll find lots of great tutorials some of which cover box modeling techniques.

In my workshop thread you'll see some things near the end about head modeling that might help some.

[jameswillmott]

Get good photo references for the head you're trying to model.

[Surrealist.]

Definitely.

And a good sense of human anatomy is a plus. :)

[SplineGod]

I would focus on techniques that follow a more traditional approach as you would find in any good drawing or sculpting book.
Start with a primitive shape and work into the basic details that define the proportions because everything else that comes later will be built upon those.
For example if you draw a head you start with the basic oval shape, then the centerline, eyeline etc.
I have a couple of videos up that are the first couple of lectures from my character modeling course. These will definately give you a good idea what Im talking about.
First go register at www.vfxcast.com
Then you can view these:
http://www.vfxcast.com/media/1055/Modeling_a_head_Part_1/
http://www.vfxcast.com/media/1056/Modeling_a_head_Part_2/

[zapper1998]

Inside LW7, LW8, by Dan Abalan are good referance books for head modeling also.....

[meshpig]

Try making a few independent eyes, ears, noses, and lips first. Larry is right you ought to consider the traditional methods for proportioning heads because they work for one and it isn't just a matter of this tool or that.

m

[SplineGod]

Ive taught character modeling, rigging etc for many years. In that time you come to quickly find out what methods people snap to. Ive found that theres a reason many drawing books etc follow a traditional approach and thats because it works. This prompted me years ago to develop methods that follow that same approach. Watch the videos I linked to and y oull see what I mean. :)

[meshpig]

Ive taught character modeling, rigging etc for many years. In that time you come to quickly find out what methods people snap to. Ive found that theres a reason many drawing books etc follow a traditional approach and thats because it works. This prompted me years ago to develop methods that follow that same approach. Watch the videos I linked to and y oull see what I mean. :)

Yep, nobody called Pablo Picasso an a**hole and he had traditional draughtsmanship down pat... that's also how come the figuration cum distortion worked so well.

m

[Stunt Pixels]

No offense, but the question is pretty silly. It's exactly the same as asking "How do i realistically paint a head easily?". The answer is practice. I have never seen someone who can model a realistic head well that couldn't also draw that head well. There may be people who can, but good 3d is an art form. It would be great if there were short cuts to make it quick and easy, but I've never seen them, nor know anyone who has.

Larry's advise is good, BUT, expect it to take a long time to be able to do good realistic heads.

[SplineGod]

True. Theres no substitute for study and hard work.
I actually find that I use a very limited set of tools when modeling characters. This is a good thing because I can focus on the artistic/anatomical aspects rather then thinking about technical aspects or tools. :)

[JMCarrigan]

After reading the various tips above (Thanks SplineGod, et al) I decided to model a head after all these years. Here's the result. I know, I forgot the ear shapes.

[JMCarrigan]

Added some ear shapes and fast skin. Borrowed MafiaGuy's hat. Thanks to who modeled that.

[hrgiger]

Inside LW7, LW8, by Dan Abalan are good referance books for head modeling also.....

Inside Lightwave 6 has the same head modeling tutorial in it that 7 does so if you cand find that one cheaper. I personally found point by point modeling easier to pick up when I was first starting out instead of box modeling. The head modeling tutorial in Inside Lightwave 6 and 7 is very good.

[hrgiger]

Also, these tutorials were very good. http://www.erraticimagery.com/extras/tuts.html They're done with Maya so you need to know the equivalent tools in Lightwave but I found them to be one of the easiest ways to quickly lay out the form of your model with edge loops, and they're free.

[Surrealist.]

I did every type of modeling practice there was for heads. I found box modeling the most frustrating and time consuming but rewarding in the end and I liked the idea of working with an over all mass and getting more detail. Spline was patching the least desirable to me, then point by point interesting but problematic and keeps you focused too much on detail. I like Larry's method best over all of them. But I think is is a good idea to try each one at least once. There is something to learn in all of it. I have since begun to develop some of my own preferences for working. Not good for everybody but works for me. :)

[UnCommonGrafx]

I haven't looked at the links Larry provided but his approach is pretty cool on getting your head to grips with all else you've learned.

Did Dan's first and it was instrumental in learning LW. I wouldn't model a head that way anymore. Yet, were I starting out now, I'd go to a local used bookstore to find all the old stuff I could. Dan's stuff is there and it is good for learning any version of LW.

However, it all goes no where if patience, PRACTICE and a study of anatomy aren't applied; they are imperative to accomplishing the answer to the question.

And yes, it is an overwhelming question.
The real answer, though, I bet for the user is: buy it.

[hrgiger]

I like box modeling a lot more now that I'm using XSI and Lightwave. The one thing that always frustrated me with box modeling with Lightwave was it's limited symmetry mode. You can't really add or delete edges and have it go across to the other half. I can't knife or bandsaw on one side of the model and have it carried across. And working with half a model and mirroring later doesn't really give you a good idea of the overall form or proportion. Now that I can do all those things in XSI, I find box modeling a lot more fun and intuitive and it flows much better.

[hrgiger]

then point by point interesting but problematic and keeps you focused too much on detail.

It all depends on how you work. I think there is a misconception that if you work point by point, you're working on on details areas and then moving outwards. Just as everyone develops their own way of working, I use my own hybrid approach when working point by point. There's no hardfast rule that says you have to put all the detail you need into an area from the start. Take the eye for exapmle, I can start by by only using a couple of extends for the eye making a basic diamond shape and then block out the rest of the head using a minimal amount of geometry. Then go back in and add geometry where you need to refine your shapes. It's very similar to what the common perception of box modeling is, only you get your poly direction pretty much right from the start. I never have to spin quads on a model I make, because I build all my edge loops first and so they're already laid down in the direction I need. If you focusing too much on detail, it's not the method that is causing it, it's just your perception of what the method should be.

[Surrealist.]

Actually quite true. Excellent points.

Interesting information about XSI too. It is true also you do wind up using parts of all these techniques to suit your needs, skill, preferences etc.

[Surrealist.]

Also an afterthought. Some techniques do sort of lead in a direction by their nature. You don't have to be a slave to that of course, but box modeling takes you in one direction, spline patching in another, point to point in yet another. In the end I wind up using bits and pieces of all of it and it all has its place I think. Just depends on the model. And I try not to find myself stuck in any one way of doing things. I am always looking for a faster better way.

[meshpig]

Actually, I was quite surprised at how, once you reach a certain threshold it all comes together easily. Over many sessions maybe but it isn't insurmountable first up by any means.

- I no longer think there is any difference between drawing in 3d and drawing period. ie. you can't draw in any case if you can't think in 3+ dimensions. The 4th being the affective.

[Stunt Pixels]

The most usefull tool i know in Modeling is Beveling, and i was wondering how i could use that to model a realistic head without having to learn many new functions.
Sorry, I just re-read the question....

I can thoroughly recommend Taron's The Secret of Organic Modelling (http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/tba01.html). It's incredible what that guys does with 4 main tools;

Extender Plus
Spin Quads
Collapse Polygons
Merge Polygons

[hrgiger]

Interesting information about XSI too.

The funny thing is, modeling this way in XSI is a workaround, it's not a feature that was designed to do this. But as like many things in XSI, it's a workaround that works exceptionally well. It works because XSI allows you to instance, meaning you can copy something in modeler and any change you make to the original object, the copy updates. So you just instance half of your model, flip it over the X-Axis, and now you have a whole model, one half original, the other half instance. So now anything you do to your original is updated so you're always looking at a full model but only working on half of it. You can even make the instanced half unselectable or change it's draw mode if you want, but it still keeps the symmetry going. When you're done, you can just merge the two to form one object.
I love to watch those videos of Bay Raitt or Martin Krol working in Mirai and always thought how cool it would be to be able to add and delete edges in symmetry and so now I can do that with XSI. I'm not as good as they are, but at least now I can use some of the same methods.
BTW, anyone unfamiliar with Maratin Krol can see some of his Modeling sessions on YouTube. Here's part 1 of a good one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzWAYZ-VOU8 A lot of people nowadays do their work now in sculpting programs like Zbrush or Mudbox but this is some good stuff too.

[Surrealist.]

Cool. Thanks for the info and when I get a chance I'll check out the video.

[JeffrySG]

I always liked these two workflows as well...

http://www.pixelandpoly.com/graphics/referenceimages/bodyworkflow.jpg
http://www.pixelandpoly.com/graphics/referenceimages/headsteps.gif

Cheers on those MK videos, hr! I love watching them!

[JMCarrigan]

Added some ear shapes and fast skin. Borrowed MafiaGuy's hat. Thanks to who modeled that.

Not 1 comment about my 1st ever organic humanish model? Not a table or room, but.... I know he's lumpy, but is it that bad?

[hrgiger]

Not 1 comment about my 1st ever organic humanish model? Not a table or room, but.... I know he's lumpy, but is it that bad?

I generally try to avoid the lumpy look. But without seeing your wires, it's hard to tell what's going on. If you're really interested in getting some feedback on your work, I would post it in the WIP forum.

[JMCarrigan]

Thanks, it was my first attempt so starting with a subdivided box I went along then finally decided just to monster it up a little to give it some character in 1 frame - not to be animated. I was happy. Here's wire. It isn't a wip yet. That will be next if I can slip it in.

It's already frozen at this point and I dragged on it for "character."

[JeffrySG]

I'm no organic modeling expert, but your mesh is way way too dense. You can get very good looking heads with much less polys than you have (1/5 or 1/6, etc). You really want to be careful not to add new loops to your mesh until the form is just right. Then slowly add them in where you really need some more detail. You might want to look at subdivisionmodeling.com also. They have some good discussions and free videos there covering head modeling. CGsociety.com has some good threads on this as well.

This is a very tough thing to model so don't give up and keep on practicing. I would just think about the form before you add all of that detail...

hope this helps a bit... :)


edit: just saw that you said it was 'frozen' already... can we see the original mesh?
also: why freeze it... kind of defeats the purpose of a sds model...

[JMCarrigan]

I saved early on and started a seperate version I went nuts with. I could see that I needed to take a closer look at various tutorials to get an idea how to continue.

But "play" has always been beneficial to me in early stages.

[JMCarrigan]

Oh! I froze it to get lotz of polys to dragnet around in my play mode.

[JeffrySG]

Yes, I would really recommend looking over a bunch of tutorials on subdivision modeling a human head. What you are trying to do is more like sculpting a head. You will not end up with good topology that way, although you might end up with a nice sculpt. You could always re-do the topology if you needed to. I'd still recommend starting with a good tutorial and keep it very basic until you get the proper forms down. :)

[JMCarrigan]

Thanky.

[JeffrySG]

It may be for a gremlin type of character instead of a human but these are a great bunch of videos by Greg Southern (http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2347). They use Silo but we can do all of the same things in LW. Tools might be called different things but it's all subd modeling in the end.

[hrgiger]

I don't think those links still work Jeffry.

[JeffrySG]

You know you're right... I have a combined version of all six movies. Not sure if it would be ok if I post it somewhere. It's about 300mb combined and recompressed.

[JeffrySG]

I'm uploading the files now. I had to split the file so it is in 3 parts each under 100MB. I used a freeware app to split it but there is a java app for any platform. I'll post the links a little bit later. Here's the link for the splitter / connector app. And yes, it will be hosted at one of those free hosting (lots of ads) site. srry!
http://www.freebyte.com/hjsplit/#java

If Glenn happens to be around here and he doesn't want these vids up, I will gladly take them down at any time. :)

Also, the video is a QT move using H264 so you'll need a current version of QT to play it.

[SplineGod]

I agree that the model is way to subdivided. The idea of starting with a simple primitive is that you can make sure that your model is as correct as it can be at every step in the early stages. If you dont fix whats wrong with the model when its simple it will only get exponentially worse as you go.
Make sure you have a good idea of what are correct proportions by using some sort of reference. You cant model what you dont know.
Again, if things look too boxy or the proportions dont look correct with a few polys dont move on until, at the point youre at with your model, things look as best they can be.

[JeffrySG]

OK, here are the three links. I will probably take these down after a few days as they are not my videos, but they were free publicly available clips from subdivsionmodeling.com. Again, these are all six clips combined into one movie (then split into three parts).
Please visit this thread for info on the clips: http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2347

joiner app: http://www.freebyte.com/hjsplit/#java
http://www.mediafire.com/?lzdyw5mlmjv
http://www.mediafire.com/?niwdzzzdj2u
http://www.mediafire.com/?zwntzwzfnwo

[hrgiger]

Thanks Jeffry for that, appreciate it. :thumbsup:

[JeffrySG]

Thanks Jeffry for that, appreciate it. :thumbsup:
No problem! They are great vids and Glenn is a wonderful modeler.

[JeffrySG]

Actually another good tutorial is one by Tony Jung who works at BlueSky now. It's another Silo tutorial but would work fine in LW. This one is pics and text not a video.

All the parts are listed here:
http://www.silo3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=97212&postcount=5

[JeffrySG]

http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235

Here is one more great tutorial series, by Thomas Roussel. It is a edge modeling as compared to box modeling. So it's a different technique all together. The entire tutorial is around 1GB. I think they are still live links...

63731

[Surrealist.]

Jeffry. Great resources! Thanks!

[JeffrySG]

:) I always forget about these tutorials myself so it's good when I have to find them again!

[hrgiger]

Thanks for that last one too. Downloading those as I write this.

Speaking of great resources...it's no secret that improving your drawing skills can help your modeling abilities. It really teaches you to visualize the form of objects. Has anyone else gotten this DVD set? http://thestructureofmandvd.blogspot.com/ I ordered it a few weeks back but have only gotten to go through a handful of lessons. They're very good and I recommend them highly.

[Surrealist.]

Yeah those where available for download on You tube a while back. Great series. I had not done them but recently went though Hogarth's Dynamic Anatomy and sketched the human structure from head to toe. Was a great thing to do for me. (My sig and of course a few samples on my website) Extremely painful for me because drawing is not my forte. I can do it, but it is painful. My plan was to then go through and do the same thing in 3D with all the muscle groups just for the study. But now I have some other pressing issues and it will have to wait.

But I agree it is a great thing to study the human anatomy.

[JeffrySG]

I never saw those videos, but I have four of Hogarth's books. They are pretty much what I always go to when I ever need to work on human anatomy or forms (as rare as that is). I also highly recommend going to live figure drawing classes.

[JeffrySG]

Actually the first part of the video is on YouTube... pretty cool stuff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFxHEZP_70c

[kyuzo]

I've not seen Hogarth's Dynamic Anatomy, but my bookshelf has copies of most of Andrew Loomis' books on anatomy and drawing. Not too long ago they were all available on the internet as PDFs...