fire in the house

[tortoro]

There's one month newtek propose to us to upgrade to L8 (without any overview of the upcoming new functions) with Dfx+.
After they expand their offer for another one month.

I think they are really scare about the new luxology app.
If you look at modo I think it's the basis of an all new package entirelly modular. And in the near future you could buy the animpation part and integrat all of the animation function into the modeler, same thing for the renderer and probably for a compositor(that was the explanation of the DFX+ deal).

All the function could be link to another one (a modeler function link to an animated function, or renderer , or why not a compositor function).

Newtek propose to us also more point release in a near future.
Look like they said to us "stay with us they re is really cool things in 6 or 8 months or in 1 year".

Really at this point I really don't know what I'm going to do.
Modo or wathever they call their suite, seems to be the lightwave 8 we have all wait.

It is ra really sad situation:confused:

[tortoro]

And now Avid decrease the price of softimage by 49%.
Look like the Luxology app is a storm.

[takkun]

hmm, Lux hasn't said anything about what the other programs they are working on or what the timeline is to release the other apps, it could be years or months.

I really think this is a great opportunity for Newtek, competition breeds innovation!

Lightwave 8 is very cool, it's animation tools are not just an enhancement like Chuck said a couple months ago, it's a whole freakin' new beast! And I love the direction that they are taking, right-click on something, a context sensitive menu pops up, edit it without opening a panel. This is great! What else can they take and put into right-click context sensitive menus?

But I hope that Newtek is already making plans for Lightwave 9, huge evolutionary plans. I never understood why a lot of people always requested that Lightwave should be rewritten from the ground up but now that I've seen Modo, I see and understand the benefits. :)

[Dodgy]

I think that's probably got nothing to do with it. I'm guessing they got such a huge response for the dfx+ offer, and so many complaints that it wasn't on long enough that they decided to extend it....

[tortoro]

If they done a total rewrite for lightwave we don't see it untill two years.

That's right, we don't know the release date for Modo and the others modules.

But I think it is closer that what we are thinking.
And if you look deeper at modo the core is totally open at third party develloper, and in their site they mention Joe Alter.

They said they used pearl as scripting language but that you can replace it by anything you want why not mel script or python and then connected it to messiah , blender , maya, max or whatever you want.

[tortoro]

Wish you're right Dodgy

[takkun]

Originally posted by tortoro
And now Avid decrease the price of softimage by 49%.
Look like the Luxology app is a storm. Whaa? Can you post a link? I just checked out the site and there's no mention of it.

[tortoro]

I read that on cgtalk

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=78568

[takkun]

ohh, it's a trade-in promotion, and it's "up to 49%" you probably will only get 49% off if you trade in Maya Unlimited. Not so interesting anymore...

[tortoro]

alias have done something similar with maya. A rpomotionnal offers and at the end it was the new price for maya.

[Hervé]

.... hummmm, and what if Lux does the same thing with LW users..... he he...;)

[sailor]

mmmm

well at least we can say that there is a kind of "overhaul" of the 3d market...if Avid drops their price is probably more to catch up with Alias (that BTW is not Alias / wavefroint but just "alias" another sign maybe?)

but things are changing pretty fast and the real question is if NT will have the needed ressources (financial, political and technological) to improve at the same speed...

as a conclusion competition is becoming harder than ever...and from my POV with the limited improvements in 8 it is starting to smell bad maybe it is the "smoke"? ;)

notice that some maybe newcomers to LW says that we can 't expect a rewrite before 1 or 2 years...well just remeber that i read some posts saying tha same when LW 6 was out !!!!

so u can imagine my dispapointement....

[Hervé]

.... indeed you look very disapointed.... but dont be too much ... there is still 2 days before the Siggraph closes its doors... then maybe an explosion... or nothing.... or you and everybody very happy... chances are multiple, like 3D apps.... he he...

But so far all this excitement look very bright for 3D.... (in general off course.... re he he)

later, Hervé

[tortoro]

I wish they do that Hervé.

Sailor, lightwave 8 is only an upgrade of 7 and not a rewrite.
I use lightwave since the 6 is appeared 3 years ago, and there is no ngons polygon like in modo.

There is 6 month I ended to build a human character and with this function I was able to reduce greatly the number of my polygon.

In second the normal map plug don't work with the displacement mapping so I can't use it to reduce the polygon on my character.
There is no history in modeler....etc

When I want a new usefull function (not like magic bevel)I must look at flay and pray.

And I don't talk about the 3dpaint in aura :mad:

[sailor]

Tortoro,

maybe my english is very bad but i'm saying the same than you

i know that LW 8 is "just" an upgrade and it has been since lw 6 that we are expecting a rewrite....

[tortoro]

:D My english is bad too.

Where you from?

I'm french

[jr_sunshine]

You guys are hilarious. How about NewTek wanting to keep the details quiet while building some marketing momentum.

I bet the same people who say NewTek is afraid of Modo were saying that the new Lux app was going to be a "motionbuilder" like app.

You guys have to take the emotions out of business discussions. MoDo is certainly going to be an interesting and powerful 3D market player. But...

Luxology is going to have to earn their market share. Just because they SAY something doesn't mean I am going to plunk down my money. I upgraded to LW 8 because NewTek said they have some interesting new features and WOW I could get DFX+ fror next to nothing. The marketing strategy worked. NewTek got my attention and even got me to upgrade before I even saw the details on LW 8.

Get real guys. NewTek seems to have more momentum than ever.

[sailor]

Paris , France :)

je disais la meme chose que toi differement tu bosses ou? moi je suis intermittent en vacances pour l'instant (d'ou la glande sur le forum :D)

see ya

[sailor]

Roy maybe the marketing worked on ya because you were happy with the DFX deal....

i'm a modeler so the DFX deal means nothing to me...of course its a choice from NT but knowing how many improvements (integration and tha blah blah) had to be done thsi DFX deal sounded like BS to me (and i'm afraid i'm not the only one) and when u say tha Lux still must earn their market...well they are doing it right now.....

:D

[tortoro]

je bosse à la maison, je suis a malakoff.
T'as de la chance d'etre en vacance je bosse ce soir 5je suis monteur pour bouffer actuellement).

[sailor]

monteur? ou ca?
moi je suis modeleur 3d LW / Maya

mais now en vacations

[tortoro]

A tps, rien de bien excitant.

Dis moi t'as vu ca ?

http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/index.html

J'ai une 5900 ultra et j arrive a avoir du 10 images par secondes en 640/480.

C est incroyable du rendu hdri en tps réel.

[sailor]

ouep il me semble avoir vu ca il ya quelque temps...masi je pense que c'est le futur de la 3d de tout facon les rendu hardware...Maya a deja quelques trucs en rendu Hardware qui sont interessants mais je n'ai pas eu le temps de bien explorer tout ca...

a plus

je suis sur MSn meteoro66@hotmail.com

ciao

[tortoro]

Je suis sur yahoo fremartin@yahoo.fr

A+

[jb_gfx]

/me votes for tortoro/sailor as #1 "french spaming team" :)

ça serait cool que vous utilisiez les messages privés pour ce genre de discussion, non?


Getting back on the topic:

Well for the moment the Lux's app is just a preview of a modeler while LW is a solid & complete package. Plus the offer LW8+DF is a real great deal, I don't see any reason to worry about LW's future at the moment. The [8] update looks more & more promising everyday that come.

[tortoro]

Sorry about that jb_gfx :)

Yes the dfx+ deal is great, but there is no enhancement in modeler, and no opengl improvment or directx9 implementation (and I don't talk about hardware rendering, did you see the link to the hdri harware rendering ?).

All the new features in layout are really cool, no doubt but they only fill the gap with the competition in this area.

I prefer new function in modeler and renderer than a free "digital fusion lite".

[colkai]

It ain't lite.
Not only is it the FULL DFX+ - it even has modules 1 & 4 thrown in for free. If you had bought DFX+ as a standalone - you would have had to pay separately for those.
Digital Fusion is a separate product, their 'top-line' if you like.
Kinda like Maya / Maya unlimited / Maya Complete.

If the other product is superior and Newtek are still only playing catch up, and the features you want aren't there, why not move packages? I would, I'm not mind you, but I would in your shoes, based on your arguments.

You say you don't want CA tools, or enhanced softbody/hardbody dynamics, you just want a better renderer and modeller.
Someone else says they don't want the new stuff, just an intergrated package. Others are gagging for the new CA tools.
Others still want who knows what!

Which direction should Newtek take? - we are not talking a huge company here - so to work on one task, means putting another aside. Us coders can't multi-task like our PC's you know! ;)

[jr_sunshine]

I have to say... I like the direction that NewTek is taking. They are considering those of us who do more than just 3D production. They are thinking big picture for their customers. They have said repeatedly in forums that what we are seeing at SG is "...just the beginning." That we shoud look forward to the good stuff coming in 8.x. You have to have priorities. The number of people who would be killing NewTek right now if the Layout features we are all drooling over were missing would far outweigh the user complaining about a lack of modeller features.

Also, you will have an alternative in MoDo. If you like it and it fills the needs you see missing in LWs modeller, then use your upgrade dollars for MoDo instead. Those who are clamoring for modeller updates say they could care less about the new layout features anyway... so go get MoDo.

[tortoro]

Good point for the lite version of dfx, but wich is the interrest of this 8bit version when you output at least in 16bit floatting point your images , combustion could handle that, after effect too. You can done better color correction. In second I think they offer dfx+ because they think you are going to upgrade for all the module, and after that why not upgrading for dfx4.

I'm sorry but in france nobody knows dgital fusion so I can't sell myself with this tool and I don't want to waste my money in it to get all the function you need in a compositing program(ex:roto-spline).

[tortoro]

jr_sunshine it is exactly what I was saying.
I'm waiting the middle of september to see what happen and after that I made a decision.

[hrgiger]

Um, unless this new Lux app has a button labled "read my mind and make the model I want" button, I'm not interested. Modeler works just fine for me so I don't see the point in wasting probably several hundred dollars for something that does the same thing that I already have in modeler just because it's the newest thing. I can't imagine how any of you actually get anything done when you're constantly wanting to switch apps every time something new comes out.

[tortoro]

Strange, before dfx newtek had promoting aura as their main compositing program, now tvpaint develop alone aura, they left the building like the programmers of lightwave.

After that newtek buy some plugins put it quickly into lightwave and say hey guy this the new lightwave 8 and you have a free compositing program.

Sorry but that smelt bad.

In the other side you have luxology, they show a new soft with a great architecture, this soft at the beginning, I think, was lightwave 8.

So do you think that everybody after 2 years of waiting are going to stay with a dead horse or are they going to jump in a new shiny car (if the price is good).

[cgolchert]

Originally posted by jr_sunshine Just because they SAY something doesn't mean I am going to plunk down my money. I upgraded to LW 8 because NewTek say they have some interesting new features [/B]

That made no sense. Why would it be ok to take someone's word for something when you point out that you shouldn't take someone's word for something?

[froggie]

Originally posted by hrgiger
Um, unless this new Lux app has a button labled "read my mind and make the model I want" button, I'm not interested. Modeler works just fine for me so I don't see the point in wasting probably several hundred dollars for something that does the same thing that I already have in modeler just because it's the newest thing. I can't imagine how any of you actually get anything done when you're constantly wanting to switch apps every time something new comes out.

You sure didn't read about modo. It's not just a copy of LW modeler, it's way more than that. It is for modelling, but it offer lots of new tools and you can customize and build new tools from current existing ones ones, that act the way you want, make tools presets, as the tools have a stack, you can change a part of the stack to act differently and save this as a preset. Not to mention the UV editing and perhaps later some new modules. You don't seem to realize how cool that sound, if it's as good as it sound i'll buy my copy ASAP. Modeller work for you, great, but why being blackeyed and refuse to see that PERHAPS it will be wayyy better than LW modeller? Perhaps only, but on papper it's a killer and knowing who is behing it i doubt we will be disapointed.

Modo is sure the best stuff from siggraph so far for me, being a modeller , mostly in games, but still enjoying to do some high res stuff to relax, it's like a really great surprise, especially if you can connect it to ANY other package. If it integrate seemlessly in a pipeline (and i have no doubt it will do as you can basically script everything or write connection, even new smoothing algorhythmes) they will have a winner. Think About how many comany use LW only for modelling and rely on maya for animation, and so on. Think how happy those companies would be to be able to avoid paying a WHOLE package when they can use modo, then integrate it into theyre pipeline, not to metion that they could hire anyone comming from any package, they could just load custom UI to facilitate the transition and let em do artwork. Should increase learning curve a lot. Not to metnion the reputation those guys have among great players in the industry. Let's not just talk about those hollywood companies that had already great imput on what modo should do and how shoud it work. Even maketing wise, it's genius. Everyone want to use the software that create Lord of the rings, they will have no pain to "sell" it if big players have it in theyre pipeline. Now it only stay to see the price tag and an actual demo of it to be sure. But it sure sounds great already.

[wacom]

Originally posted by tortoro
Good point for the lite version of dfx, but wich is the interrest of this 8bit version when you output at least in 16bit floatting point your images , combustion could handle that, after effect too. You can done better color correction. In second I think they offer dfx+ because they think you are going to upgrade for all the module, and after that why not upgrading for dfx4.

I'm sorry but in france nobody knows dgital fusion so I can't sell myself with this tool and I don't want to waste my money in it to get all the function you need in a compositing program(ex:roto-spline).

That's too bad as some of the DF team speaks french (since it's based in a good place in Canada)...DFX+ might only be 8-bit but it's MUCH better than AFX and in some ways better than Combustion. DF is great because you can make your own tools with the flow! You aren't limited to what the XYZ plug in does like in AF. If you move up to DF for $2,000 you'll crap your self with joy. You can use what ever bit depth you want...and more. It's the little features of DF that make it what it is- and that stuff doesn't make it into reviews or the product description. Just my two cents...

[hrgiger]

Originally posted by froggie
You sure didn't read about modo. It's not just a copy of LW modeler, it's way more than that. It is for modelling, but it offer lots of new tools and you can customize and build new tools from current existing ones ones, that act the way you want, make tools presets, as the tools have a stack, you can change a part of the stack to act differently and save this as a preset. You don't seem to realize how cool that sound, if it's as good as it sound i'll buy my copy ASAP. Modeller work for you, great, but why being blackeyed and refuse to see that PERHAPS it will be wayyy better than LW modeller? Perhaps only, but on papper it's a killer and knowing who is behing it i doubt we will be disapointed.

Sure I did. I read it. It didn't make me want to start saving my money to buy it or anything. Who cares if it's better? Then if another company comes out with modeler in 6 more months that's better then modo (dumb name by the way), are you going to buy that too?
Plus, modeler will probably get edges or a stack or any number of other things that modo will have evenutally anyway and then I'll realize I just wasted my money on an app that's not much different then the one I use now.
So, no thanks. If it were maybe $200 or less and I could use it alongside Lightwave, maybe. But I'm sure it's not worth a major purchase.
If you keep jumping from app to app because the other one always looks better, you'll never learn anything.

[froggie]

Noone talk about saving money yet, I want to see it work before thinking about buying it as well, but you can't deny how cool it sounds. I want to make sure it lives up the hype, and there is lots of hype about it, yes i am excited about it, alot. But i already saw too many stuff tourning out awfull. I am not dumb, but i can't deny i am way into it, just the fact to build tools yourself, without relying on scripting is pretty kick *** so far. Making the tools you want to use, not the tools you HAVE to use.
wait and see ;)