Zooming and blurring a DDR/ and auto switching

[bugcaster]

Hi Guys,
We are quite new to the whole tricaster thing, but we are having trouble doing something quite simple. We have the TC broadcast.

We have a 2 camera studio. We have a looping background which we want chromakeyed in the background of the camera inputs. However we want the camera with the tightshot to have a tighter view (with a slight blur) and the wider camera to be the regular background.

I can think of 3 ways, however my knowledge falls short on all.

USE DDR 1 and 2 to provide two different looping backgrounds (downside we loose one DDR and there seems to be no way to apply the backgrounds to the cameras so the cams and DDRs switch at the same time.

USING the Utilities I was able to get a Matte blur, which would be perfect if I could live scale it before the blur... but I can't seem to do it.

USING LIVE SETS
I can't for the life of me work out where to get the simple version of the set constructor. I hoped it may be possible to create a live set and scale the FX input to full screen on cam 1 and with cam 2 maybe 150% with a blur.

I thought this to be pretty simple... but I'm feeling pretty dumb...

Any help would be much appreciated.

Mick

[SBowie]

I'm having a little trouble following the exact goal you're after. Could you possibly post a mockup image showing the desired result (ideally with the different sources labeled?)

[bugcaster]

hey Steve..
In it's simplest terms we have two chromakeyable cameras.
One is Close Up.
Two is Wider.
I would like to be able to switch the 2 cameras but have the DDR background change and corrispond to the camera composition. IE the CU camera has a closer/cropped version of the background (maybe with a blur. The wider camera the original full screen version. The background has motion.

is that clearer? Can it be done?

[SBowie]

I would like to be able to switch the 2 cameras but have the DDR background change and corrispond to the camera composition. IE the CU camera has a closer/cropped version of the background (maybe with a blur. The wider camera the original full screen version. The background has motion.Trying to use two different DDRs and two different versions of the BG clip is the awkward bit. (Two different BG sources is do-able, but it would tie up two potential sources instead of just one, and maybe require a bit of dexterity to keep them both running - don't think that's necessary to achieve your goal).

Assuming the camera position is not altered between c/u and wider shots - it might be a lot simpler to build two LiveSet shots both using a single BG source. The BG in the close-up shot would be scaled, cropped and blurred on the fly by the LiveSet shot applied to that cam - rather than processed as a separate clip. Would that work for you?

[bugcaster]

Yes Steve, Exactly that. Providing that the DDR could be scaled full screen and larger (for the CU) and blurred on the fly.

However I don't know where to find the constructor software etc..... I'm suprised more people don't want to do this?...

I can't see us buying lightwave, aura etc to get it working... what are the alternatives..?

[SBowie]

I can't see us buying lightwave, aura etc to get it working... what are the alternatives..?"Phone a friend?"

All kidding aside, this is a fairly high end item, and it seems likely that authoring custom LiveSets will always require some more advanced apps. It's early days, so support is pretty much limited to Aura (or its 'near relatives') and LW for now. If that doesn't seem like something you want to get into, there are a few people doing this commercially hanging about. (Assuming all you want is as described, no real 'set', just a keyed FG and 2 BGs, someone might even undertake it for you as a favor as it's not a huge deal.)

[bugcaster]

So... That's a start... who should we talk to about this... I'm quite handy in 3dsmax and aftereffects, but have never played around with Aura or Lightwave....

To be clear though there are no virtual/3d elements in what I want to do..

We just want to scale/blur a DDR for the CU camera (CAM 1) and keep it standard and wide in the wide shot. (CAM2).. the DDR is just a slow moving splash screen (like a digitaljuice background)...We want to give a feeling that the camera changes somewhat reel, with the background being one large wall of video.

[bugcaster]

This is what I need... so frustrating knowing that I can make this in Aftereffects, or Digital Fusion...

I just spoke to the tech help guy at NewTek and he said that you need to have Lightwave or aura... which I can't believe as it seems like a really simple hurdle, ultimatte systems can do this in a flash... and it has to be a really common need for people.... A plugin for AE would be tops...

Can anyone help??

[SBowie]

which I can't believe as it seems like a really simple hurdle, ultimatte systems can do this in a flash... Sure it can, and you can do it in SpeedEdit or Edit Media easily too. In either of those, it's a simple keying job, just like AE, Fusion, etc. But -- you've been asking about LiveSet, a realtime technology, and switching between camera views to boot. If you're ok doing it in post, we're wasting our time with LiveSets.

[SBowie]

One more point on this - note that you can get a notion of the realtime blurring available by using the Matte+Blur Scene in Input Setup>LiveSet>Utilities. It sounds like all you really need is a wider shot without the blur to complement one of those shots.

[bugcaster]

Hi there,

No I definatley need to the keying live. It's just I was given the clear impression both from the dealer in Norway and LIVESET PDF that this could all be done from a free program available from newtek... which doesn't seem to be the case...

I don't want to use a scaled virtual camera. I want to use 2 real inputs.. different physical cameras.. That's why I find this so frustrating... because I just need the backgrounds to change... the framing up etc can be done after...

As I mentioned in the first post.. I have played with matte blurr, which is great.... but I need to scale the DDR/FX row to crop it... the reason for this is to acheive the feeling of depth of field with the close up..as you would in a real background.. where it would be thrown out of focus.... and also to avoid digitalzoom artifacts from the scaling.

Again can anyone help?

[SBowie]

I don't want to use a scaled virtual camera. I want to use 2 real inputs.. different physical cameras.. That's why I find this so frustrating... because I just need the backgrounds to change... the framing up etc can be done after...It's not really that complex, as long as you don't really need two different background clips. You just want to crop and scale one, which is simpler. The other might be possible, but the juggling of two DDRs required would be a constant pain, to say the least.

Again can anyone help?Check your email.