Landscape WIP

[fabmedia]

Well, it's not like I haven't done this before, but I thought I would get some feedback on a building that I'm creating for a backyard scene. There's no door and the siding is not done. This is going to eventually be a real b*tch to render because I have numerous trees, bushes, flowers, a shed, fence, and other things that will be polygon hell. This house will be a tad stylized, but I think only a part will be shown. How much? Too soon to ask.

SO, what do you think?

Arlen

[ingo]

>>SO, what do you think?

Well, to soon to ask ;)

And where is the landscape you mentioned in the title ? Overall it looks nice, but it will definitly need more texturing and surrounding to get a better impression. I only would avoid the strange camera perspective, but that depends obviously on what you will use it for, a character animation or a real estate picture. Keep us updated.

regards

ingo

[fabmedia]

Okay, I should have made myself more clear. I'm creating a landscape image for my mailer. it's going to contain a portion of the house with a sneak peak of "what's in the backyard". So far, i have a few things modeled but I thought because that the house is a work in progress, that I would start with this.

I'm creating this to target some architectural firms. I'm hoping to get texturing in the next day or so. I'm going to try to get this done over the weekend/early next week.

Arlne

[fabmedia]

okay, here's another. There is siding now, flashing, and a couple of other things too. I'll render out a better image. Have to go to bed.

A

[fabmedia]

A quick question that i forgot to add, should I drop the shudders?

A

[anieves]

Originally posted by fabmedia
A quick question that i forgot to add, should I drop the shudders?

A

I don't think so, I think they add character to the house

[fabmedia]

Zounds good. I just started thinking that it was too much. I live in an older holm and we don't have any shutters on the windows outside. But yes I guess they do add character.

Here's another with Interpolated 2 bounces...

Arlen

[adrian]

I love the shutters too.... I also love the tree. How did you do that?

Will look excellent when it's fully textured with a nice sky (maybe a sunset?).

Nice work,

Adrian.

[fabmedia]

A texturing I go....

Okay here is the next step. And boy is this taking a long time. I have what I'd like to think is a lot of generalized texturing of all of the white stuff. Now I'm not sure how to do it so I can just blast it out as one big texture. now I don't think I'll be able to do that, unless someone has any suggestions. But I'm wondering what the opinions are now....

Adrian, I created the tree using a plug-in from http://www.polas.net . I bought it because I had to make a whole wack of trees very shortly. I found that it was the best solution for the $$$ and the amount of time I had. It uses UVs for the trunk and the leaves are UV's as well. The trees look really good.

Cheers!
Arlen

[fabmedia]

and here's another... Any suggestions about the edge of the roof where the tiles touch?

A

[fabmedia]

Here's another, but I'm thinking that I'm going to create separate boards for the deck and the stairs. I think it'll look more coherent.

A

[Rory_L]

Good start. :)

I`d rotate a few of the shutters away from the wall a bit. At the moment they`re all too perfectly aligned: bit like they`re not separate mesh, but extruded from the wall!

R

[fabmedia]

Yes, I understand what you're saying. I'm not sure how to map the rest of the image. I've been thinking of losing the pealed paint effect and stick with something more solid and subtle. Are there any suggestions how I can surface the general trim in one foul swoop and how I can deal with the shutters without them looking like they are all the same?

Arlen

[ingo]

Looks very nice now. Creating seperate boards is a very good idea, it adds a lot to the image if you modell the boards and put some random placement or height into it. And for texturing the other elements i would take a walk outside and look how these houses look in reality.

[renatolazzaroni]

I am not sure you should loose the peeled paint look. I think that's what looks the best (how did you do it, is it hand painted ?).
Also, if the house is inhabited, the shutters should be latched open to the external wall. So it is normal that they all have the same position. BTW, are you planning to model the latches ?
If you want more "randomness" in the shutters you might show one that has not been latched, and that is only half open.
Anyway, this is great work.

Renato

[fabmedia]

Is there too much pealed paint? I've dirtied up the steps to the front door, but I think it's too much...

Arlen

[fabmedia]

Well, it's been a bit, but here are some images for comments and suggestions.

Arlen

http://142.173.125.22/house10.jpg
http://142.173.125.22/house10a.jpg
http://142.173.125.22/house10b.jpg
http://142.173.125.22/house10c.jpg
http://142.173.125.22/house10d.jpg
http://142.173.125.22/landscape.jpg

[karlito]

Hi,

I just got here, nice modeling. If I may, I'll just make a few comments about texturing or more precisely ageing surfaces. I've been working on (live) sets, and really, texturing 3d models and ageing props with paint are quite the same, when it comes to the reflexion behind it.

The problem you often see in 3d models is that all the dirt and ageing look like it's an even layer applied to the whole model (if you get my meaning), because most of the time, it's the case.

About the paint peeling off, you should take into account the shape and material of what's beneath, what I mean is the paint probably doesn't peel the same amount on the places that are more likely to be exposed to the sun or that are made of different material. In the same way, maybe the effect will be more pronounced around the edges of the boards & planks, you know, like when the paint started to come off at a certain place, it tends to do so more and more at that particular place... likewise, the steps of the stairs would be more used near the middle, 'cos that's where we walk.
All this certainly represents a lot more work, because you start thinking at the scale of the object, as if you were in it, instead of thinking of it as a detailed 3d cube.

Same goes with dirt, dirt is not only a layer of brown fractal noise applied to the object, but in order to be believable and realistic (and therefore useful), it has to tell its sources, or better, a story. On the posts of the stairs for instance, we could well imagine having a shade of (greenish) dirt going upwards and concentrated at the foot, because rain would produce such an effect when bouncing on the soil... Now the roof, which way goes the rain and where does it accumulate the dirt? ...get the spirit?
A lot of observation and analysis of our real life environment...

Well that sure was a long post, but when it comes to sharing the things that took me time to figure out...

Keep up the good work!

[pauland]

Looking great!

Paul

[fabmedia]

karlito,

I know exaclty what you mean! My god I will show you one of the items that I painted by hand. It's an arbour, and I still don't think it's up to par. Now I thought of how to quickly create this thing with minimal effort as I'm trying to pump this out for an additional piece in my promotional mailer. I'm not too sure how to finish this though. Should I be attacking each item as a separate hand painted map ( UV or otherwise )? I know that the effort does pay off but a small project turns into a huge one very quickly. Now realism is something that I'd like to strive for, but how can I minimize my effort for maximum results?

I have more questions, but not too sure where to start.

Arlen

http://142.173.125.22/Arbor_withVine2.jpg

[fabmedia]

Now I've been thinking of this now for a couple of hours. Karlito has made a really good point. Now would it be best to redo the textures and paint them by hand? If so, how do you think I should do this?

This is what I have so far:
1. 7 planks that make up the siding. There is one image map for the paint, with an image of a plank overtop with a dirtmap alpha, a gradient layer with another dirt map on top.

2. The boards for the deck are made up of 9 planks with roughly the same features but there is an additional dirt image with a dirtmap alpha that was created to simulate the traffic. Now this is not very noticable, but I will increase the opacity.

3. The roof is a custom UV map.

4. The door is like the windows but with an additional map for the pealed paint.

5. Everything else is a like #1 and 2 but is applied to everything else. All of which have been slightly modified because of the different surfaces. There are 5 different posts, the shutters are treated as one items with 5 different surfaces, the trim is all the same surface.... etc. You get what I mean.

It just started to get really tedious at the end and I have a bit of a deadline for getting my promotion out. So time is a factor. But I've been thinking that I should maybe create a new surfaces based on the following...

A) Separate surfaces for the 4 sides of the house with the whole area being one surface. this would be painted by hand and custom map for the pealed paint.

B) A continuous UV map for the the stairs and the deck which would be painted by hand.

C) The shutters would be treated as a s single UV map. There would be 3 different surfaces as to limit the amount of time taken.

D) Separate maps for the trim and such.

So what is your humble opinion? Should I just finish this for the promo, then revisit it? Or should I just do it? I need to get this done by the end of the weekend.

Are there any good tutorials online for going through the texturing process for achieving specific results? I do know that I would like to add some moss to the roof. and the siding, but not too sure how to do that. Maybe one day, I'll start to get okay with LW.

Arlen

[karlito]

Hi,

It's true that since your model is part of a whole set, if you're not going to see it too closely, the goal is then just to make it believable, not necessarily accurate.
From my point of view, I'd say just try to break the regularity of the dirt layers, by simply playing with gradient alpha channels, either parented to a null object (for surfaces you need to visually adjust) or dependent on altitude (posts, roof maybe...). Thus you could keep the textures you spent plenty of time adjusting so far, without wasting them by having that "glaze" effect (dunno the exact word, sorry, I'm French!) typical of 3D layers. If you combine a texture that is stretched vertically, plus a nicely tuned gradient alpha channel, would it produce like a rain trails effect?
About the traffic on the stairs and deck, on the last picture I saw, I'd make the effect a bit more subtle with having it fading away near the door (cos we step less at the exact same place around the door, it's a wider area). Also I'd think that the trail would be lighter than the rest because it's mostly the paint that has worn off, instead of dirt accumulating there (and making it look brownish).
In fact, the first question should be, is it supposed to be an old house, in which case, there you go with much tedious ageing work (that should also include moving each plank a tiny bit off in order to give life to the place), or is it a house that's just been built (with perfectly aligned shutters, hint hint), in which case tear and wear is not so much an issue... it all depends on what you want to show on your final pic (and the time you can afford spending on it). We tend to dig so much into details that we often forget to step back and stick to the main idea.
I think that you're a bit halfway between the two solutions there, and that makes texturing decisions particularly hard to make!

Well good luck with your deadline, and by the way, very nice job on the Arbor, that one does look like an object with a story to tell :D

[fabmedia]

do you have any suggestions on how to add a "moss" to the roof that hits the areas where the tiles connect? I would assume using the bump map, but I'm really not too sure about this.

Arlen

[fabmedia]

Please be patient. I'm going to have an update here in a little while. I'm working like a mad hatter on trying to finish this off.

Please stand by.

Arlen

[fabmedia]

few... I'm sweating in my basement. It's been quite warm the past couple of days.

I spent most of my day today creating UVs and making maps. I must say that i spent less time creating the maps my hand over trying to tinker with the other methods of mapping. I use a technique to create a UV along the Z axis using a morph map. It works quite well. None-the-less, I've not applied any bump, specularity, or diffuse maps so far, so bear with me for at least a tad longer. I'll have this done shortly.

But I do need some feedback... and suggestions if there are any (and always welcome) ...

http://142.173.125.22/homeUV1.jpg
http://142.173.125.22/homeUV2.jpg

Arlen

[karlito]

Hi,

Almost there, your house is coming out pretty nice.
A few more comments ? Here we go :)
The shade coming from the ground might be a little shy, I think you can stretch it a bit more to make it look even more natural. The deck is looking more natural now but the scratches on the posts are a bit sharp, either you can tone them down or add a little blur to them, or both.
According to the scale you seem to give to your image, I don't think you'll need to bother with any bump maps when it comes to adding moss on the roof. A nice hand painted color map should do the trick, you can still add a slight 3d effect directly by imitating shadows in the color layer, a bit like we do in video games textures, I don't know if I'm clear. It also depends on what type of moss you want to depict, if it's grown moss, like you find on the trees, or if it's just a "deposited" moss, a thin tainted layer due to humidity. I think the latter should be enough (and much easier to handle), you don't want your house to look derelict do you ?
And last thing, the finishing touch for the roof: add a gutter ;)

[fabmedia]

| add a gutter

Not much of an area for a gutter, but you're right. there definitely a need for one. Along the back, the other side of the front, then the deck.

I still have to do the vertical trim, shutters and the porch rails (banister). So there's still a bit of work to do and I'm going to try to try to lump some texures up together with the UVs. I stacked them for some of the trim and other items. This helped with the speed of creating the maps, and I also have a base design and I've simplied copied portions to the other areas. The bump maps will be easy to do and because I will be closer to the building, I think I'll need them. Subtle though.

So maybe I'll get this thing out yet....?

Thanks. I'll keep you posted.
Arlen

[fabmedia]

Okay, I've made some adjustments and dirtied up the trim and stuff. I found that it was too bright as compared to the deck floor...

http://142.173.125.22/homeUV1b.jpg
http://142.173.125.22/homeUV2b.jpg

I also gave the roof a green wash as well.

You can compare the new images with the previous URLs if you wish.

I've created gutters but haven't textured it yet.

Arlen

[pblacklock]

the only thing i see is that the two front ramp posts should have a endcap with a design on it or have the top railing fall longer than the post and reduce their height .

see image

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=deshurley.server101.com/Porch%2520and%2520Stairs%2520Railings%2520Pic%2520 17.jpg&imgrefurl=http://deshurley.server101.com/posts_and_beams.htm&h=528&w=726&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dporch%2Bstairs%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den %26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8


the other thing is to place empty flower box around the front porch near the windows sills and maybe even hanging baskets.


Paul

[fabmedia]

-----

"the only thing i see is that the two front ramp posts should have a endcap with a design on it or have the top railing fall longer than the post and reduce their height . "

----

Ah yes. I agree, that would be a really good idea. I think I can swing a hanging basket, but was thinking of possibly something off the windows up top. But not too sure if I have the time for that. Time is bearing down on me. I have the shed to UV map now as well. But that shouldn't be very long as I have the images already to use for that.

I do think that reducing their height is a good thing too. The ground, some grass, trees, shrubs, and some flowers maybe.

Do you know where I can find a fern or know of some presets for quick grass with Saskwatch?

Arlne

[pblacklock]

i would add the basket on the first floor cause i doubt the lady of the house would climb on a ladder to water her plants, more convenient and practical on the first floor.

the basic saslite grass settings should be more than ample for your ground. i have a fern here if you want it, just pm, and i will send it to ya.


Paul

[anieves]

I think this is looking really great. Looking forward more updates. Keep it up!

[IMarshal]

You're doing a terrific job on the texturing. I really like what I see so far.

But, would you mind posting more with the landscape to put the picture in a little better context?

Also, I'm curious what you think about the plugins you purchased from Polas. Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated. Oh, and is it possible to use his plugin for a forest or is that simply ridiculous?

[fabmedia]

Now here we go. Now that the house and the shed are almost done, and because of requests, here is the beginning of the landscape. I have put in a temporary fence that I built before, but I have to create one that flows with the ground. I have to bump map the ground and leave and texture the trees, add flowers, and grass.

So here it is... http://142.173.125.22/landscape1.jpg

Arlen

[karlito]

Nice setting, except maybe for the arbour (as nice as it is), I'm not sure you would find one at that particular place. It would be more likely to have a door on the fence where the path crosses it, but perhaps it's my european landscaping culture that talks... ;)
Otherwise, what is the main purpose of the final picture, I mean, what will it be showing eventually?

[fabmedia]

---- what will it be showing eventually?

Hmmm, well, uh... huh?

Good question. I've been so wrapped up in trying to do this. Initially it was going to be about the arbour, but now that I'm starting to put the scene together and lookiing at by inital drawings, there is something missing, not too sure what it is though. I know that there is a BIG space that appears to be missing, but I don't know if anything should be there. Maybe I can put Spaceman Zot™ or the SpaceJet™ there, but somehow I just don't think that that would be appropriate. What it really comes down to, is that this image is going to be used to try to sway local Architects into noticing what can be done with 3D other than using the traditional painting methods.

but the focus... hmmm

Arlen

[karlito]

:rolleyes:
mmm... so what aspects of 3D rendering are actually going to be of some interest for architects?
Not necessarily rendering speed ;) but realism for sure, integration into photographic backgrounds ("what is my future building going to look like, or how is it going to standout, in the environment it's planned to be implanted in?"), the possibility to change details/colors/lighting without having to re-draw the whole thing, multiple camera angles/walkthroughs... these could be good purposes for your final picture, to start with, if we're talking about a demo here.
My point of view is, there are many 3D artists on the market, many can be as good as you are, and many (more) not as good, but how can you make a difference? Everyone can acquire a good technique and render pretty pictures, but communication is a skill by itself, and having a strong purpose behind your images is the start of it, isn't it?

cheers

[fabmedia]

Again, I do agree with you. I do have a bit of an advantage. I am a graphic designer who has expanded his horizons. In Canada, BC especially, there economy took a bit of a slow down after 911. It wasn't too dramatic, but enough to start feeling the effects now. I've been dead slow and never really had to promote myself. Now since I've have a couple of paying 3D projects under my belt, I can at least put a "this is what I did" to potential new clients. I'm hoping that the stuff that I've put together is round enought to peak the interests of architects, design firms, and people who are needing some form of product visualization.

I'd like to think that I can pull this off in the sense of detail and realism, but then I'm not everyone else. And I have a hard time judging the value and quality of my work. I've got another image coming, so stay tuned.

Does anybody know what I should charge for doing a 3d ilustration?

Arlen

[fabmedia]

Here's the beginning of the last leg. I'm working on trying to finish this off by the end of tomorrow. So far here it is...

http://142.173.125.22/landscape3.jpg

So is it coming along? There's still some stuff to do to the trees (texture the leaves), add some flowers and bushes. But not too sure what else. Suggestions?

Arlen

[Rory_L]

Fab,

Thanks for4 the PM alert. Boy, you`ve been busy since I last looked!

Not really much to suggest now! You could try putting a gradient on the vertical porch beams, ramping down to dark, stained/rotten wood at their base; with a fractal pattern streched on the Y to simulate the effects of dry rot, moss and so on. It just depends on how beat up you want the house to look!

renatolazzaroni is right about the shutters, up to a point. (:D ) However, nothing in the real world is snapped to a reference grid or tidied up in some cosmic Numeric panel! Those latch hooks may be different sizes and be screwed into the wall to different depths. If so, the shutters will be angled from the wall differently to each other.

Well, even if the real world house were perfect, the model would look `realer` by putting a bit of randomness into it. It`s for the same reason that we put `dirt` on spaceships where there never would be any in reality.

By the same token, it wouldn`t hurt to knife through some of those long, straight polys and jitter the resulting points a little.

Cheers,

R

[ingo]

Hi Arlen,

nice to see how your project developed over the last few days, looks very good and has a nice atmosphere, maybe some dirt where the base connects to the ground will help to make it more real.

BUT, if you want to use it to attract architects, i guess your doing something wrong. This maybe a nice picture for the gaming industry, but an architect never wants to look his NEW house like the one on your picture. I'm now nearly eight years in that business and the clients always wanted to look their buildings nice and clean and better-than-real, since they have to sell it in any way. So dirt maps are definitly not allowed, not even graffity :-( Try to make your lighting look real and the whole scene believable, and all what karlito said was right too, than you are able to attract architects or real estate people.

That doesn't mean that your nice picture is bad, its only not usable for getting architects as new clients.

HTH

ingo

[wongchoy]

I think architects will be able to appreciate the patina of the house but not the design. For real estate people it will be the reverse.
:D

[fabmedia]

Hmmmm, welll said. I would figure that realism, ability, attention to detail, and potential would sell. I have other pictures as well as this. You can really see the improvement over the last couple of months of some of the things that I've done. But you are right.

The final image will be an Interpolated GI render with an HDR image. So that should pump up the realism.

I'll think about this one.

Arlen

[fabmedia]

Okay, it's been a bit, but I had to get some stuff done. This is what I managed to come up with for the final image. All critiques are welcome. I do know however about the hill in the background is too sharp, but BE DREADFULLY HONEST....

http://142.173.125.22/landscape_web.jpg

Thanks for your support people...
Arlen

[pblacklock]

if you are trying to land a job as an modeler & designer for architects firms then you should listen to Ingo.

make this house the best looking scene possible for architect firms not for a demolition crew. keep this one for a before shot then beautify house with new siding and windows, clean up the yard to show how nice if someone would have it remodeled, put people sitting in front porch or walking around the yard, anything to make it an attractive home for potential buyers.

when i first read this thread i thought it was for fun but it never crossed my mind that it was used to build a portfolio to get a job at an architect firm.

you got talent, fast and probably can create any work thrown in your way if they gave you a whole city block full of buildings, betcha it would be done in a night or two.

keep up the good work and good luck,

Paul

[fabmedia]

I'm not looking for a job per say, but for contractual work. I'm self-employed. But that's a different story. I have an initial "clean" version of the home which they can look at. So hopefully they can appreciate the image as it is.

Although I have one question. There is one firm that wants to see my work, now I have about 1.5 weeks before the meeting, should there be anything in particular that I should have for them to see?

Arlen

[pblacklock]

find out all what you can about the company, who does what, direction of company, type of contracts they had in the previous, check out their work, can you contribute in the same style as they tend to offer their clients, would you be a fit in or more than we always have to check up on him.


i'm sure Ingo here will add some strong points to help you out unless he's gone riding on his BMW. lucky bum :d

check if you can find these three books:

Starting Your Career as a Freelance Illustrator or Graphic Designer
by Michael Fleishman

Successful Freelancing: The Complete Guide for Establishing and Running Any Kind of Freelance Business

Artist's & Graphic Designer's Market: 2100 Places to Sell Your Illustrations, Fine Art, Graphic Design& Cartoons
by Mary Cox, Candi S. Cross

Good luck,
Paul

[ingo]

Hmmm, since Paul forced me now to answer, i have to. Although he told you everything you need to know. So print out and prepare you portfolio, from my last visits i have seen that a printed portfolio is still the best way to present yourself.
Another advise i can give you, since youre no architect ask them about their job and what they expect from you, that way you get a good basic understanding. Since youre a self-employed guy anyway, i think you don`t need more tips. And keep us informed.
And of course use the force, err the web. For example look at the website from David Wright's company www.artmaze.com, they are a Lightwave based company too.

HTH, i'm now out on my bike ;)

ingo

[fabmedia]

WOW! Artmaze! WOW! I'd only dream of being able to produce such beautiful stuff. My question is here, how do you light a scene that makes it look like it's lit with global illumination?

That's some really good material. You know, I really appreciate the feedback that has been given and the great tips that have been sent my way. I'm in debt to you all.

Arlen

[wongchoy]

The final image looks great.

Something that you may consider in working with architects is the notion of precision. Archs are concerned with and liable for precise building processes. Showing how your image evolved, like you have done here, would be helpful so they could understand how changes and variations could be made within a time-span. In most cases you will have to visualize from CAD drawings which use a language particular to the construction indie , so you might want to glance over a few books like “Arch. Graphic Standards” to become familiar with some terminology. If you have the time, compositing a wire frame on one of the images is sometimes useful in showing or implying that you can read a plan and a section well. I hope that helps. Good luck.

[pauland]

It's really looking great.

I have one *small* comment. At the base of the porch, the side panel meets the ground. It is perfectly straight and clearly sits over a textured plane. I think in reality the ground wouldn't be perfectly even or there would be some small obstruction so I wouldn't be able to see that perfect straight edge.

As I said, a very small point indeed. Thanks for sharing this journey with us.

Paul

[fabmedia]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I noticed that one too. But it's really funny that nobody else noticed that except people who have been involved in this post (3d imaging individuals). Infact, I had run this image past an architect the other day, and he really went over it to give me his opinion, and he overlooked it. I thought sure as hell he'd see that.

Arlen