The new mobos?

[IMI]

Just a couple of (probably) silly geek questions:

In shopping for a new mobo for my next machine, I see now "PCI Express 2.0 x16" in addition to the (I guess now 'old') PCI Express x16.

Ok, well, am I correct in assuming that a video card requiring PCI Express x16 will not work in PCI Express 2.0 x16?

Seems also that now we have DDR3 memory slots, which, again, I'm assuming won't run DDR2 memory.

Here's the deal though - I want to run a quad core Intel, Q6600 or up (probably more like the Q9550, by the time I actually start buying parts), one nvidia 9600 or maybe 9800 (not in SLI), with at least 4 gigs of DDR3 to start with.
Obviously I need to match these well with a good mobo. 64 bit, of course.
(I'm sure DDR4 and PCI Express 3.0 will come out as soon as I'm finished. ;) )

And I have to admit I'm really baffled where it comes to PSU's all of a sudden. reading the reviews, they seem to be kind of hit or miss in terms of quality, which is a concern, but I need to make sure I have enough juice to run this stuff, along with at least four HDD's and two DVD burners, plus of course, room for USB devices. I don't mind shelling out 200-$300 for a *good and reliable* PSU that has more than I need - I'm mostly concerned about not getting a dead unit, or one that's going to crap out after a month.

I'm also not concerned about overclockability (if that's a word), but it would be nice to be able to OC just a little.

I haven't done any research at all into this new stuff yet, just wanted to see what some of you might have to say about these items, particularly concerning using with graphics apps.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them, particularly recommendations regarding PSU's.
Thanks . :)

[Cageman]

Hmm... expansionports such as AGP have been backwards compatible. They had new functions/speeds that older cards couldn't take advantage off, but worked. I would have to assume that older cards will work but not being able to take advantage of the new features.

DDR3 will not run DDR2 memory.

I have to say I'm as much in the dark as you are when it comes to PSUs.

Price, it seems, doesn't have to be a factor. When I built my old dual AMD, I went for a 600W PSU that cost about $60... It lasted for over 4 years! It was the only one with that kind of power that was below $120.

EDIT: That machine was on 24/7 for several months in a row (several times) doing heavy rendering.

[Mitja]

All depends on your budget. I'm not sure whether DDR3 would give you a big performance boost, since you can find DDR2 modules that run at 1066MHz (supported by an appropriate mobo), while DDR3 run at 1333MHz. Price differencies between these two setups are wide.
60-100 bucks for a PSU is quite enough imho.

[IMI]

Well the thing is, it seems the new mobos have DDR3, period. And it seems if I want to take advantage of the newer nvidia cards I'm going to need a mobo with PCI Express 2.0 x16.
I'm not really concerned about what I can get away with, that is, see how much of my current hardware I can use in a new machine, I want all new stuff. Trying to keep up with the new developments and all.
Money isn't really too much of a concern to me where it comes to buying computer stuff. (although my wife might disagree. ;) )
Well, I'm not going to go crazy here and spend thousands for the best of the best, but I do want to build a new bad@$$ gaming/rendering machine.
At the same time I don't want to screw it all up or match the hardware incorrectly and create something unstable or compromised.
I'm planning on researching all this until I thoroughly understand it all, before I buy anything, but I was hoping to see if any of the PC gurus here had any advice. :)

[Mitja]

I would look on ebay what sort of machines are they selling (those in your budget), and then serach for single components. This way you can be sure there are no incompatibilityes.

[AbnRanger]

I was reading an article on Tom's hardware guide the other day, and they were saying that most new MB's are NOT DDR3 because the manufacturers know that DDR3 is currently too cost prohibitive for most consumers.
So I would look to find the best board with both the new PCI Xpress 2 and DDR2. By the time DDR3 becomes affordable, we'll be looking at 8+core CPu's

[IMI]

I'm not sure what you mean by "affordable". I have a page in newegg's memory catalog opened right now and the prices seem to be about what DDR2 was a year or so ago.
As for the mobos using DDR3, yes, I see now that most of them still are DDR2. Those that are DDR3 are considerably more expensive at the moment. No doubt that price will drop sharply.
But it all really doesn't seem as if it will be that far in the future before DDR3 is the norm.

I'm not doubting what you say, and I do appreciate the advice, but, cost aside, would there be a good reason for me to avoid DDR3 right now? is it something current programs or Windows might have trouble with?

"the manufacturers know that DDR3 is currently too cost prohibitive for most consumers."
Yeah, um, I think if the manufacturers were interested in changing that they could. That whole planned obsolescence thing and all. ;) The mobo I got last year is nearly a hundred less than it was when I bought it, and my video card is about 150 less than it was 6 months ago...

[AbnRanger]

Well, the word "affordable" is always a subjective term. A loaded BOXX may be affordable for a small to medium studio, but be beyond the budget for a freelance artist. So, I was implying that it's not as affordable as the current market norm (DDR2). If cost is not an obstacle, go for it. Is it worth the extra cost...probably not (the percentage of cost vs performance).

Sure the MB manufacturers would like to make their current DDR2 models obsolete, but they know that if they PUSH DDR3 models on the public who isn't ready to spend the cash for high cost DDR3 memory...they'll end up eating a lot of those boards. Past experience has probably taught them that lesson.

[Cageman]

Yeah...

Actually, the game-market is somewhat similar. When Crysis was released, it required computers and GFX cards that were state of the art; very expensive. One of the reasons why Crysis havn't sold that well. If they would have waited and released it today (with all the marketing etc), I'm quite sure they would have had a much better result.

Oh well...

[JonW]

Running off at a bit of a tangent, some info of whats in the pipeline - Intel Nehalem bench marks, unfortunatly no Lightwave here, but in should give some indication of rendering speed.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3326&p=7

[jin choung]

not sure about the pci-e ports... a quick google search ought to get you a definitive answer... but i think the pci-e 2 IS backwards compatible...

you're right ddr3 will NOT work with ddr2 mem sticks... i HATE the fact taht they keep changing this up making you upgrade mobos but alas... what're you gonna do.

ddr3s are CONSIDERABLY more expensive right now (up to couple hundred discrepancy for the same amount of ram) and i would definitely do some research to see if it's worth the price premium.

generally with ram, the first implementations of the next number up (from ddr1 to ddr2 or ddr2 to ddr3) end up actually SLOWER than the best of the previous because of higher latency... and this is only compensated for by really amping up the bus speed... but that comes later in the product cycle.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

biggest consideration is CHIPSET. i got a p35 earlier in the year and that's the most mature tech but it's just about to taper off into the p45 and p48 chipsets... you'll have to do some research to see how well these chipsets handle in comparison to the p35s but early buzz is good. and most of these i think are starting to come with ddr3s... so be prepared.

p45 will be the standard and the p48s will be the "enthusiasts" models. faster but more expensive. but there will be a lot of compelling p45 options that make p48s look like overkill if it follows the p35vsp38 pattern.

as for psu... eeesh, you don't intend on running SLI or CROSSFIRE are you (double vidcards only usable for games, not CC apps)? cuz if not, you should be able to get a 600w to 800w that will more than do ya for 100 or less.

and i can't talk about hardware without throwing a recommendation for these babies http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=TopTechSTD

i'm actually using one as my "case" right now and i'm loving the fact that i can tinker to my heart's content without knuckle scraping and mimicking a contortionist on the floor... and as for dust, no moreso than in a case... just in a case, you can't see it.... and there actually might be LESS dust.... certainly doesn't look like what i see when i usually open my cases.

but not if you have kids or pets or have a clouseau-esque penchant for spilling things into the most expensive piece of live electronics within arm's reach.... : )

jin

[frantbk]

The easiest path to take is to go to the manufactures website, see if you can download the manual and start there by reading the motherboard specs. The manufactures manual will have much information then posting for everyone's view about which is the best motherboard.

[IMI]

Well, again, I appreciate all the advice. :)

Yeah, Jin, you showed me that case before and I do love it and I've been seriously considering it ever since. I do have a cat though, and she does like to get into things, which is my only concern - I'd have to make sure she stays out of this room, but when I close the door she sometimes sits out there and whines and moans til I let her in. Might not be a good idea to get that case unless I can figure a way to cat-proof it.

No SLI, no. I'd like to, for games, maybe, but I've read you can't use two monitors if you have SLI. Have to disable one of the monitors or one of the cards, or something like that. And of course, I know it only works for non-windowed apps, only for games. And there's no way I could ever again do without two monitors.

[IMI]

I'd rather upgrade my single card more often.


Yeah, I agree there, for sure. I'd be all for SLI if it could be used with multiple monitors and regular OGL and DX programs and not just for games, and if it offered a significant performance boost, but...
Well, the nvidia 8800 GTX seems to do quite well on its own. ;)

[jin choung]

actually, not sure if they started this yet but i read about something that was a neat half-step to sli... using an integrated graphics chip on the mobo to work in concert with the add in card.

normally, the integrated stuff was for super low end boards but i heard they were gonna enable an sli kinda deal and THAT sounds cool.

might want to see if that's available yet. i think it was nvidia that was heading up that development so you might need to get an nvidia chipset for it....

jin

[King Rygar]

Hey guys, I hate to be a buttinski but I am currently in the "dreaming" phase of building a new pc for my 3D work and gaming.

I was actually considering one of those newfangled 3-SLi jobs, mainly because this PC will eventually be driving a 1920x1080 projector system with a huge screen, so I was thinking that triple SLI would help with that insane resolution and detail is really important when you are blowing up games on a 100 inch + screen!

Am I wrong? I have been out of the loop for so long...

What would be you guys dream machine for LW and GAMING?

[IMI]

What would be you guys dream machine for LW and GAMING?


I don't know how to dream that big.
For LW art, first off, I'd need something with a cpu with a better imagination than I have. :D

[Titus]

What would be you guys dream machine for LW and GAMING?

I had nightmares with this recently:

http://helmer.sfe.se/

[King Rygar]

:heart: Why did you have to show me that??? Now I will never be happy with the rig I build... :D

[Mitja]

I had nightmares with this recently:

http://helmer.sfe.se/

A genius!!!

[mattclary]

I would REALLY not buy a motherboard or CPU in the next couple of months if I were you. Nehalem will be out near the end of the year, and it looks to kick some serious buttocks. Most of the mobos that it will run on will probably take DDR3 from what I recall.

[TheDynamo]

I've been running mine for a while now and it's rock solid. It also comes with a DDR combination setup where you can run DDR2 or DDR3 (in different slots of course).

-Dyn

[jin choung]

that's MSI right?

jin