Adding bones

[akstylish]

Ok, I converted skelegons to bones and organized them in schematic view, which took me quite long. Then I found out I need more bones to animate the character properly. Looks like I can make bones in layout, but it's much harder to put them in place than in modeler. And if I make new skelegons in modeler, I have to convert and organize them again. What's the best solution for such a situation? And why can't I make bones directly in modeler?

[prospector]

use 'update bones' plugin

[SplineGod]

Actually I think that dealing with bones in layout is as easy as skelegons and they dont have several of the 'gotchas' you get with skelegons.
You can draw bones in layout adjust the joints...in short, everything you can do with skelegons. The other advantage is that you dont have to jump back and forth to make adjustments which can be a real pain if you have IK, expressions etc already setup.

[akstylish]

I guess I'm just not used to manipulating stuff in layout then. Can you convert bones back to skelegons?

Btw, did you read my email yet Larry? ;)

[SplineGod]

There are scripts to go back and forth but theres just some things you cant do with skelegons that you can do with bones and test immediately. Sometimes for example Ill pull the tip of the parent bone away from the root of the child to effect deformations. I can see the result immediately. Any tweaks you do with skelegons will not have that advantage and will always be slower.

I did get your email but have only had some time recently to give it some thought :)

[JBT27]

There are scripts to go back and forth but theres just some things you cant do with skelegons that you can do with bones and test immediately. Sometimes for example Ill pull the tip of the parent bone away from the root of the child to effect deformations. I can see the result immediately. Any tweaks you do with skelegons will not have that advantage and will always be slower.

I did get your email but have only had some time recently to give it some thought :)

.....yeah.....I tried that last week and it blew the mesh apart.....deformation definitely.....just not what we were after..... :D

Julian.

[SplineGod]

Typically if you tweak the bones in some way and the mesh wigs out try going to your rest pose on frame 0, select all the bones and hit the r key to rerest them.

[JBT27]

Typically if you tweak the bones in some way and the mesh wigs out try going to your rest pose on frame 0, select all the bones and hit the r key to rerest them.

Thanks Larry - I can't remember how we fixed it, but we did.....it wasn't an easy fix but it wasn't your suggestion either - it will be next time! :)

Julian.

[adamredwoods]

My vote is for Dodgy's update bones plugin:
http://dodgy.ghostoutpost.com/Lscripts.html

I use skelegons in modeler, because I tweak bones all the time to fix a rig. I like the symmetry. The Layout tools offer no undo, and frustrate me more than the benefits. Rotating skelegons in modeler is awful, but use the tool "Edit Skelegons" instead of "Rotate Skelegons".

Both ways have strengths and weaknesses. Best to choose a method that can help get your work done. Sometimes its a blend of both.

[SplineGod]

For me what bothers me about skelegons is having to rely on scripts to go back and forth.
Skelegons create the bank handles perpendicular to the viewport which is not intuitive at all. Bones do it the opposite. I see this get ppl all the time especially on skelegons that change directions. Its hard to really figure out how its going to end up. In the end most ppl have to tweak the bones anyways to get it right.

Skelegons also are not parented unless theyre welded. This is another thing Ive seen bit ppl all the time. You either forget that theyre not parented or when you reparent the bones in layout you have to rerest or even change the rotation orientation on the child bones. It ends up creating more problems then solving.

The lack of undos with the bone setup tools has rarely if ever caused me issues simply because its extremely easy to fix.

My experience has been that doing the 'boning' and rigging and deformation testing in one place is a much more efficient and productive workflow.

[Giacomo99]

Slightly OT (and with all due respect to other commenters who may have books or DVDs out ;)), I'd highly recommend Jonny Gorden's "Lightwave Cartoon Character Creation" books, especially Volume 2. Gorden's exercises are the clearest and most helpful material I've yet found about the relative benefits and drawbacks of setting up bones (and weightmaps) in Layout vs. Modeler. Unfortunately, Skelegons are covered in Volume 1 and Layout bones are in Vol. 2, so you'll need to acquire both to get the full picture.

I really flailed in the "bone wilderness" for several years before discovering those books a few months ago, and they have made a world of difference in my Lightwave practice.