LW help - Need to model this unusual building

[Ade]

Hi guys,
back to lightwave specific questions.
I have my first real job with lightwave and I am to model this building.
I'm having troubles with techniques on where to start.
Is this a boolean job? An import eps extrude job etc.
What I have started to do is draw every individual shard from the side
view and place them extruded
into LW.
The results havent seemed to
be of help?
Need some pro's point of view.

[Ade]

.

[Ade]

So far I have this by individually drawing the pieces using the
illustrator side (middle) view and extruding them in LW and placing them in a circular top view array.

Arrgh help me my lightwave friends!

[Gui Lo]

Hi Ade,
First I think you should try the Tricks & Tips section so you have more people to look at your problem.

But here is my 2 cents.
Construct the rectangles from the plan. Extrude with lots of segments.
Construct a negative shape to form the 'American Football' shape and Boolean.
Merge points and clean up model, removing 1 point and 2 point polys.

Use the side elevations for to make the other negative shapes and also Boolean.

The final result will depend upon how clean the stages are before they are booleaned.

Good luck and I'm very interested to see the result.

Gui Lo

[mlinde]

What if you build a single object with points all the major spots, kill the polygon and reconnect the points in the correct polygonal arrangement?

Or, even simpler, just import your images into the backdrop, add points at all your major intersections, then go through and connect to make the correct polys?

A final suggestion would be to model the central polygon, then clone it in modeler, adjusting points as you go along, then repeat for each sub-section.

[munky]

I don't do too much complex modelling as the broadcast stuff I do has to be knocked out in hours rather than days. But if you have the plans for this building then could you not scan the planes and import the illustrator templates and extrude them. But hey you might just have the drawings youve shown us. One tip I can offer as it seems your building is symetrical is to only make one half so you can see what you are doing much more easily then mirror it at the end.

hope this helps


regards

paul

[eblu]

i think you might have too much data in your cross sections, (its realy up to how "real" this needs to look, and how you are going to treat it with the camera)

but having said that, I would kill the polygons that you have and patch them by hand. You've already done a good deal of work, no sense in throwing it all away.

random tips:
hide what you dont need to see (those points get entirely too confusing).
try finding a way to leverage Sub-d modeling, so that you dont have to make that many polys.
definetly have reference pics on hand.

o yeah, almost forgot... what kind of surface does this "building" have? is it a smooth mirrored surface, a complex surface with balconies etc..., that stuff is very important.

plan your camera work on the model that you already have, then build only the parts that you Need to, doing test renders With your final camera work.
of course never do full rez render tests.

need a sharp edge in subD modeling? dont use the sub patch weight, and dont use smooth shift. You can get a sharp edge by cutting polys out and pasting them back in, for architecture its very helpful, but not so in Character modeling. (unweld does the same thing but it tends to be a little difficult to manage at times)

I would stay away from booleans, the shapes you would need are just as difficult to make as the building itself, and booleans can go wrong.

told you they were random tips.

[Ade]

I'm reading all the tips, many say boolean some say stay away from them.
What I have done is disected the sides from the side view and created 30 individual progressive shards and extruded and imported them in modeller..(killed me)...

Trouble is in the front view how can I get the weighted bulge it has unlike mine (compare 1st front view from the eps to my front view here).

Guys your help is what keeps me going, its 5am now.. I am determined.

[Ade]

Sorry double post..

Heres the update.

[eblu]

heres an idea:
build half of it, then mirror it (half the work eliminated!)

and to get that bulge, perhaps you can manage it with the scale tool (lowercase h) and turn on the falloff, in the numerical panel.

I would still try to find a way to do it with subD modeling, its an organic shape and would take much less data/work/tweaking to do with subDs.

i was just looking at your ref images, and I need a sanity check. I originally took the ref images to be contour illustrations meaning that the surface of the building is supposed to be unbroken. Is this the case? or is this a building made up of multiple thin, shaped, vertical extrusions?

[Ade]

Eblu what sort of falloff do i use in the pulldown?

[eblu]

make copies, experiement.
my guess is that its not going to be perfect.

i'd start with point radial falloff, from the top of the building, to get that point. Maybe one of those other Xform tools could help too.

[Ade]

Im having troubles, do u guys think it would be more accurate if i started with a football shape and booleaned other shapes out of it?
I need a cleaner way, when I falloff size it I get annomolies and stuffed up dirty polys in the renders as u can see.

[Karl Hansson]

<<< do u guys think it would be more accurate if i started with a football shape and booleaned other shapes out of it? >>>

Thats proabably what I would have done. I'm eager to try it.

[Ade]

The way I did the recent was individually use the sides from the side view and create every shard and extrude them, i dont like the outcome as u can see, the polys get dirty when stretched.

Can someone point me in the right direction to start boolean?

[Ade]

I will now try a boolean version of it..
Hey what do u guys tyhink of spline nurbs in lightwave for a project like this?

[eblu]

i was actually considering a rail extrude, but I realized that it wouldn't get the exact correct shape.

there is also magicbevel, might be easier to manage.

[Ade]

Do you guys think i should model an egg shape then extrude the top view and boolean it out of the egg?

Spline nurbs?

[mlinde]

Why not try using one of the stretch tools (pole or taper) tool to modify the shape of the existing object, rather than remodel it? You may need to knife in a few extra segmens to make the curve work, but that seems simpler than remodeling from scratch again...

[Ade]

I did use your method and adjusted the falloff to suite but got dirty polys as u can see in the render.

[paintboy]

i dont think any method is gonna give you all "clean "polys?
this is a tough shape, the only thing thats gonna build it right
is time and patience.... :rolleyes:

[riki]

I think it's just one of those trail and error jobs.

[wacom]

Ok...what are we up to? I think we have 52 cents by now and we need a buck...so I guess I'll add my two cents.

This may seem out of left field but I'd make the football shape, then make more "Shards" like you have- only I'd use the shards to take away the "simple" and constant negative space. AKA use the shards for a boolean operation. Does this make sense?

The "foot-ball" shape would be made by extrusion and then turning it into a sub-patch 'till you got the shap you wanted, then I'd freeze it or sub d it and turn sub-patching off. This is all before the good old boolean. For the rest of the shape (such as the back edge cut) I'd come back with diffrent little boolean shapes made out of the football shape to get the right cut at the right angle.

Just my two cents...:confused:

[Ade]

Updated:
I tried nurbing the egg and boolean the negative space from it but the nurbs didnt like it, I started out with a box to model it..
Anyway now I have made cuts to get the definition and am trying to get the bottom bulge happening.
I have made points for the bulges shape, it looks like a smiley face, but now dont know what do, to get it bulging, anybody?
Bueller? Bueller?

[Gui Lo]

Hi Ade,

I had a try with Booleans and it worked ome. I will post my stuff when I get the process straight. Essentially I used the plan view with the ovals to determine the eliptical spheres(?). I placed all these shapes into their own layer.

Then I simple boolean them and use boxes to produce the correct sliced angles. I have yet to figure what shape will produce the main curve when cut.

Finally I hope to have a solid that follows the curves. Then its a matter of re-producing the plan of all the slices. Cut and then clean up the edges.

Sorry if this sounds confusing or just plain stupid. I hope to have a description image up tomorrow.

Gui Lo

[Ade]

Gui and everyone thanks soo much.
Gui I guess once i see your post pics i will understand mor ewhat u said, do u think my attemp is worth going on with?
Also MOST IMPORTANT the front view (3rd view) doesnt give much information by looking at it, it has caused me heaps of probs.


*cant wait to see yours.

[mlinde]

Ade, I think with appropriate lighting the front view will pop out well. That's going to take a bit of work on it's own, but that will solve your information problem.

[Gui Lo]

Hi Ade,
Big big sorry it has taken so long to reply.

I did this a couple of days ago.
Quite messy but with heacier models and a decent clean up it should work fairly painlessly.

More info to come

Gui Lo

[Gui Lo]

Another image

[Gui Lo]

Hi Ade,
The work ended up being quicker and easier than I had thought.

Here goes and explanation:

First draw solid oval(in layer1(L1)) to the shape of the main body.Copy. Tripple.

NEXT LAYER(L2)
Then Paste and resize from the centre to form a body that we can make the lower cut-away form.

NEXT LAYER(L3)
Draw a box and rotate it correctly.

Boolean(Subtract) cut Box(L3 in background) from oval(L2 in Foreground). Now we have a truncated oval.

Merge Pojnts and make sure that shape is a solid, welding points if need be. Also Triple

Then place L1 in the background and cut away using boolean again. Clean up, make solid and triple.This now gives us the back section.

Copy L1 into L4 and resize smaller from the centre. A Boolean cut gives us a thick 'eggshell' effect.

In L5 construct the cutting tool we will use to give the main angular curve. Do this by creating a polygon using the points derived from the reference images. Extrude to from a solid. Clean up and triple.

Boolean subtract L5 from L1. Clean up and Triple.

Now we have the larger portion of the building as a solid.

Finally reproduce the rectangular pieces from the plan and extrude to cover L1 and L2. Use Boolean(INTERSECT). I had L1 in the Foregraound and L5 in the background. Then repeat for L2.

Note to save time: since the building has symetry only half the shapes need be used and then mirrored.


Copy L2 and Paste into L1 to give use the stripy building.

Copy and paste to L6 and reduce the size and postion to give the smaller section.

Clean up may be very intensive(killing polys and deleting points) but this gives the rquired points very quickly.

I hope this is clear enough but the main thing is to ensure you are using solids then Boolean will work well.

The .lwo should be attached.

Gui Lo

[Ade]

Gui thank you sooo much I cannot wait to get home and follow your tute, everyone here are pure PRO's and thats why I love lightwave because of the community. Actually i think ill sneak out and go do this now those renders are superb GUI I will have to find a tute on setting up a scene to take an object to render that clean.

[Ade]

Update -
Cant seem to work out why I have dirty burn marked polys and how to rid them?

[Ade]

Was really fired up until i got the dirty polys in the render when in modeller cant see em.

[Ade]

Followed GUI's advice, made alot of sense, learned heaps.
Heres another view -

[ponder_it]

This is a perfect oppertunity to use the spline guide. Create your model in Layer 1, of the boxes(in this case it's boxes with a radial array or clone). In layer 2 create a basic spiline of the curve that you need to follow (follow the contour of your building that's in your picture). Put layer 1 as the current layer. Then open spilne guide and then open the numeric pannel to activate it. Really cool way to model this too. With tweaking you should be able to create this model in 10 minutes or so with the spline guide.


Cheerz.

[trentonia]

I'd be willing to bet that the 'dirty' polys are a smoothing issue. Do you have smoothing on your surface? If so, you need to lower the smoothing angle or make the flat surfaces with a different name.

[Ade]

I tried adjustin the smoothing angle to no avail, didnt try renaming, that ill try now.