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View Full Version : Real world comparisons of SpeedEDIT and Vegas 7 projects


ScorpioProd
07-01-2007, 12:13 AM
OK, I've been using SpeedEDIT and Vegas 7 since the beginning of the year, time to post some comparisons. There are certain advantages and disadvantages to each of course, and I will point out what I've found. I definately feel fluent enough in both to post on this topic, and I hope you all find it helpful.

The best way to showcase the differences is to talk about two projects I've done in the last week, one in SpeedEDIT and one in Vegas 7. Basically, I am currently doing about half my projects with SpeedEDIT and half with Vegas 7.

This week I had a week long conference to do for GE, I had to shoot about 25 hours of video during the course of the week, AND have a 15 minute highlight recap ready for Friday morning.

I chose SpeedEDIT for this project. One of the main reasons being, having used VT-EDIT and SpeedEDIT for so long, I knew I could use it even when half asleep, like I knew I would be during the nights of this project, which was my only time to edit.

Obviously no time to transfer 24 hours of video from tape to the computer, next time I'll have solid state or optical disc media. So, lots of scanning the tapes looking for interesting stuff and capturing it into SpeedEDIT, all DVCAM and DV format.

Opening fancy titles made with Bob Tasa's Oasis and Mirage. Used some multiple crawling words on the screen at once, offset in start and end times and position, fading and blurring in and out at the beginning and end, all VERY easy to do in SpeedEDIT. Simple backgrounds and still pictures all in PNG format, just a little bigger than video resolution. I always batch scale them with IrfanView. SpeedEDIT automatically knew their aspect ratios, of course.

For part of it I needed the stop sign on a slide on a screen in the video to pop out and come full screen. So, I captured the still, took it to Mirage, cut the stop sign out of the slide, scaled the brush up, stamped it, and then recreated it with Mirage using the original as my template. Then I saved that out, brought it into SpeedEDIT, and the I animated it so that that clip starts with it over the actual stop sign on the slide, and then rapidly expands to full screen and just as rapidly to back on the slide in size and position, all with automatic ease in/ease out in SpeedEDIT. It was very quick and easy to set up and very effective to what I wanted to achieve.

Music Bakery "Motivation" theme music was used under the whole project, it took about 3.5 full songs. There were some video clips with sound bites, but mostly just music. Anyway, I put it all together, then rendered it out to DV so I could get it to TMPGENc and then through DVD Workshop 2 and RecordNOW Max 4.5 onto a DVD. Very tight time on getting it all done, but this worked out, as it always seems to.

Overall, SpeedEDIT worked great for this job, and I'm happy I chose it. It did live up to its name in what I needed to do.

But, was it perfect, no, it wasn't. I did hit two problems. The first was that I had to render to DV to get it to TMPGEnc. Because it was a short-form project for me, this was acceptable. For long-form projects, it would not be, as shown in my next project.

The other problem I hit is frankly even more serious, because I can't group or lock clips in SpeedEDIT, at some point I inadvertantly moved my first background music track 10 seconds further than I wanted it. I then set all my other tracks relative to it. I never caught this till I watched the DVD, there wasn't time to fix it, so I let it go, since luckily an opening voice over was happening at that point, though I will fix it for the final final version. This is simply a BAD deficiency not having the ability to prevent this in SpeedEDIT, and I just don't understand why we can't do this. This is bad.

Now for the other project. The other project was a riddiculusly long dance recital. So long that it would be on two 2.5 hour DVDs. This I chose Vegas 7 for for two distinct reasons. First, even though the word "speed" isn't in Vegas name, this bread and butter type job would, without question, be much QUICKER in Vegas 7 than SpeedEDIT, since I don't have to render to DV before going to TMGPEnc.

The other reason is that Vegas 7 lets me GROUP my clips together, so what happened in the above project can't happen here. This is critical here since each DVD would have FORTY dances on it, all with a CG for each dance, and the fat taken out between dances. Also, I have to have TWO channels of audio, with one offset by 2 frames from the other to take care of speed of sound versus speed of light issues (shotgun at camera and sound board). In Vegas I simply set this up once, group the clips, and I am totally safe for my entire edit. There is no way to do this in SpeedEDIT. If you do this in SpeedEDIT, you better put a lot of markers on your clips, cause as soon as you put the first crossfade on the video with the "attached" audio clip, the other clip won't move and you'll be out of sync.

I made a fancy opening with Bob Tasa's Oasis and Mirage. Used some BackTraxx under that, then used the native CG in Vegas 7 and a BG still under it for each title. In previous years I had done the opening with India Pro CG, but nowadays I use Oasis more than it for this.

The regular CG is a change also, both Vegas 7 and SpeedEDIT make you do your CG on the fly, while with the old CG Designer in VT[4], I would have made up all my titles ahead of time and saved them as PNGs, ready to go. I'm surprised to find I don't really mind this change. And to make it easier, at the end of each song I would simply copy the background still and previous CG from the previous song, and then modify it. Very quick and easy in Vegas 7, and it would be in SpeedEDIT as well. Actually, I like the CG in SpeedEDIT better, it is more powerful. But I have gotten used to the Vegas 7 one and can use it if that's the better NLE for a particular project, as it was for this one.

I had to do a fancy pan and zoom on one of the dances, since a girl started puking and I really didn't want to put that in the video. So, using the pan/crop tool and keyframes, I easily set this up. I also set "smooth" for the keyframing to enable the equivalent of SpeedEDIT's ease in/ease out. I do wish that Vegas showed the actual graphs like SpeedEDIT does, but that's not how it is set up, but I can get used to it.

I set my audio levels, threw a soft limiter on my master bus just in case, and then used Satish's Debugmode FrameServer to serve the project directly to TMPGEnc. Authored in DVD Workshop 2 and burned with RecordNOW Max 4.5. The final product turned out fine.

So there you go, two different projects, and different reasons to pick each NLE.

tonybliss
07-01-2007, 06:47 AM
Thank you Scorpio :)
VERY useful to me

omeone
07-01-2007, 09:39 AM
Indeed, thanks ScopioProd. One slightly different experience for me though - I've had no luck with png's - I always need to reset them to ignore aspect and assume square pixels.

ixlor8
07-02-2007, 07:58 AM
I have been using Speed Edit for about three months. I have been a long time Premiere user and use Premiere Pro 2.0.

I am using an Intel Centrino Duo processor with 2 gig of ram with Windows Vista.

Over the weekend, I was working on a project for the Porsche Club. I have track events, social outings, video of 20+ Porsches on the road and still images.


Premiere Pro 2.0 took several minuets (5-6) to render a 10 second image pan with keyframes. SpeedEdit was no waiting.

I forgot quickly about the old days with Adobe Premiere rendering effects and complex transitions. Backround rendering is fantastic. This is a feature that sold me.

Most of my projects are less than 15 minuets. At this point, I can not see using Premiere Pro 2.0 on a regular basis. I do import DV files in Premiere Pro 2.0 and create DVD’s.

I would like to see some type of intergraded DVD Authoring as a bundled product or built in.

Any comments?

SBowie
07-02-2007, 08:04 AM
Indeed, thanks ScopioProd. One slightly different experience for me though - I've had no luck with png's - I always need to reset them to ignore aspect and assume square pixels.What resolution are the PNGs?

ixlor8
07-02-2007, 09:36 AM
3504 x 2336

JPEG

72 PPI

Pixel Depth 24 Million

16 Million Colors

The video of the image pans look great with SpeedEdit with the above file sizes.

SBowie
07-02-2007, 10:15 AM
Aah, ok - there's your reason then. I wondered why it would be necessary to force a 1:1 pixel aspect for a PNG. I thought maybe you were using a resolution that corresponded to one of the standard def sizes, and that SE was inferring rectangular pixels. But you're not really dealing with that. All that's happening is that any oversize imagery is auto-scaled to project res on import.

There's really no way around this at present*, but a toggle for "scale imported images to project res" in Prefs would be a nice idea for those who do this a lot (for montages and the like.)

*of course there are ways to 'batch reset' imports.

omeone
07-02-2007, 10:28 AM
What resolution are the PNGs?

They're exactly the same as final output. It always for image sequences rendered from LightWave, not something I could be expected to correct manually. For now, I have to convert them to SpeedHQ avi's using RAD Video tools, then I can just edit the whole clip.

For me as a LWer it is a bit disappointing how much SE is directed at TV outputs, 99% of my animation is for PC playback, I'm amazed NT seem to have ignored this medium.

SBowie
07-02-2007, 10:54 AM
They're exactly the same as final output.Hmm. That's odd - your situation is different than the other fellow in this thread.

AFAIK, PNG doesn't retain pixel aspect ration info in the file header, but I just dropped a standard def PNG into a standard def project, and it auto-scaled perfectly without any intervention, which is what I would expect. What is your project res?

ixlor8
07-02-2007, 10:58 AM
Image Panning with SpeedEdit

Even with the large file sizes, SpeedEdit did almost an instant playback with the JPG files. The image size was about four times the size for SD TV playback. It allow the video to be flawless in quality.

Premiere Pro 2.0 had a real problem with these images. My computer was crying for life support.

I have been very happy with SpeedEdit. But, it is missing several items that Premiere Pro 2.0 has.

Rick

ixlor8
07-02-2007, 11:08 AM
I use the standard SD setting.

When I drop an image into the Timeline it will automaticlly scales the image to the correct size.

I use Control Tree and enable "3D Position" and "Size". I adjust the image starting point with keyframe and set mutiple keyframes for the effect I would like.

It works for me.

omeone
07-02-2007, 11:14 AM
Project Settings:

RES: 640*360
FPS:24.00
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (or 'ignore')

Now add an image that is 640*360 and it will give black bands top and bottom (until you reset the image from 'auto' to 'ignore').

SBowie
07-02-2007, 12:01 PM
Project Settings:

RES: 640*360Oh, that helps - thanks. You're using a sort 'home-brewed' 16:9 equivalent.

The PNG format can retain pixel aspect info, but often doesn't. SE has to 'guess' when it doesn't find pixel aspect info in the file. I tested this, and it is mis-judging this particular combination (looks to me as though it may be assuming Cinemascope aspect.)

OTOH, if you use any of the standard 16:9 formats, it works just fine. If your LW project was 720x480 w. pixel aspect of 1.2 (DV anamorphic) for example, there is no issue (even full frame 720x480 loads correctly into 640x360, technically an error in my view - but that would be annoying to work with in LW for a 16:9 purpose.)

(Both of those sizes load correctly into a 720x405 project as well - but the same problem surfaces again when you drop an 'ersatz' 16:9 file into that size project.)

I think SE's 'guesstimation' has an issue with these formats. But you can sidestep it by using a 'legitimate' 16:9 format.

omeone
07-02-2007, 01:31 PM
There should be nothing 'illegitimate' in the world of PCs though? ;)
OK, 640*480 and 320*240 are 'more normal', but this setup is to give me the option to render 640*480 letterboxed, for the likes of youtube etc.

Actually I've just tested 640*480 and it works properly, from there I could render cropped out to 640*360, but that would make life that little bit more awkward when designing stills and titles.

Of course, I'd be happiest working at 1280*720 and then downsizing as needed, but it's not worth if you consider that will quadruple LightWave render times.

SBowie
07-02-2007, 02:14 PM
Gotcha - but why not simple render (at 640x480) with the letterboxing already done? Surely YouTube would respect that, and I know MyToons would.

John Perkins
07-05-2007, 08:55 AM
I'm 99% sure that these images will correctly default to square pixels after installing the SE 1.2 update.

We tweaked this a bit for most odd resolutions, but you may need to right-click in the filebin and select "Remove Temporary Files" so that we recompute the aspect ratio for these files.

Actually that's always a good idea after an update. It rewrites the NewTek Info folders.

omeone
07-05-2007, 09:11 AM
they do!

nice one :)

ChrisFar
07-05-2007, 10:09 AM
Eugene please help me understand this, if I have a 2 hour project on my timeline in SE I can not just create a MPEG2 file and author in DVD Workshop, I have to convert to DV then use TMPg???
Thanks Chris

John Perkins
07-05-2007, 10:21 AM
No, you can render to MPEG2 with no problem, including exporting a list of markers as chapter points. Eugene just loves to use TMPG.

ScorpioProd
07-05-2007, 11:22 AM
Eugene please help me understand this, if I have a 2 hour project on my timeline in SE I can not just create a MPEG2 file and author in DVD Workshop, I have to convert to DV then use TMPg???
Thanks Chris
It all depends on what speed and quality one wants for one's MPEG-2ing.

I'm doing this as a business, my quality is critical to me.

I wouldn't still use TMPGEnc if I didn't have a good reason.

I strongly encourage everyone to do a simple comparison of the two methods and see what you see, or don't see.

But hey, there are people happy with what they can do directly in SpeedEDIT, just as there are people happy with the quality and speed in DVD Workshop 2's encoder.

So go for it and be happy.

5butlers
07-09-2007, 07:40 PM
I have been using Sony's software along with the Newtek products since VT2. It has been always easy to edit in vtedit and awesome to now use SpeedEdit. Now I only use the DVD Architect 4.0 to author my DVDs after rendering it to mpeg2 in SpeedEdit the render time is 1 to 3 with my 6700 quad core machine. then the DVD authering process has always been no more then 15 minutes.

Bobt
10-27-2007, 08:14 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I made a fancy opening with Bob Tasa's Oasis and Mirage. Used some BackTraxx under that, then used the native CG in Vegas 7 and a BG still under it for each title. In previous years I had done the opening with India Pro CG, but nowadays I use Oasis more than it for this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks for the mention Eugene!

DONT FORGET I still have 2 more copies of Mirage with Oasis TitleFX
for 399.

Get it before its gone.

Whats Oasis do?
http://www.bobfx.com/OasisDemoReel.wmv
http://www.bobfx.com/OasisDemo2.wmv

If you have not seen Mirage. WOW
go to www.bauhaussoftware.com/products_mirage_tour.php