Toaster 4000??

[DavidDB]

Hi

I recently bought an amiga 2000 toaster system with what I thought was an original Video Toaster Card. The label on the memory daughterboard is labeled Video Toaster and not Toaster 4000. I was examining it today and comparing it to photos at amiga.resource.cx and www.amiga-hardware.com I noticed that except for the label the hardware was Video Toaster 4000 and not the original Video Toaster. The system came with Video Toaster 3.1 installed but the 3rd frambuffer doesn't work. There is an identical card to mine listed on Ebay right now so I know that my card is not unique. Does anyone know anything about this? Is this an early Toaster 4000 card with labeled with "Video Toaster" instead of "Toaster 4000"? Does this card have most of the Toaster 4000 hardware but only enough memory for 2 framebuffers?

[tonyvdb]

The Video Toaster 4000 seen here:

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/display_photos/toaster4000_3_sm.jpg

and the original Video Toaster seen here:

http://www.amiga-hardware.com/display_photos/toaster2000_2_sm.jpg

Are almost identical in looks the only big difference is the video inputs/outputs are mounted directly on the one board where as the 4000 they are pluged into it as seen in pictures. Plus the 4000 has support for the Flyer and the added support for 24bit transition effects (wipes)

As far as I know there were only two versions of the Toaster released on the market. Both will work in the Amiga 2000 but the VT4000 requires an Amiga 4000 to use the 24bit effects.

As far as your frame buffer not working have you tried to reinstall the software for it?

[tonyvdb]

Hi

The system came with Video Toaster 3.1 installed but the 3rd framebuffer doesn't work. .....Does this card have most of the Toaster 4000 hardware but only enough memory for 2 framebuffers?
Now that I think of it, There are only two framebuffers in the Toaster 2000 and 4000 the 3rd (DV3) is for black or a solid color screen only is that what you mean?

[DavidDB]

This card is definitely Toaster 4000. It has the movable BNC board and all the other parts are Toaster 4000. The only thing it doesn't have is the Toaster 4000 label. Some Toaster 4000s must have been produced that way. The one on Ebay is a real bargain right now. The same seller has a Toaster 4000 with the label and it's going for twice as much.

[tonyvdb]

One other thing to make sure its a "true" 4000 is look at the slot that slides into the Amiga's riser (seen in picture) if it has 3 sections not just two then thats a good indication its a 4000.

[DavidDB]

It has

[DavidDB]

Here is the one on Ebay:

http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/90/6c/646e_1_b.JPG

[tonyvdb]

My guess is that someone has swapped the piece on the VT card with the toaster 2000 and I really do not know if there is a difference between the two as they mount the same way on both cards. I would send an email to Newtek or call them to confirm.

[DavidDB]

I just got a Flyer card with a manual and the photo of the Toaster 4000 in the manual has the Video Toaster label. Some Toaster 4000 boards were produced this way it looks like. These are probably early production run boards.

[mysticpixels]

Hi David,

I just won a Video Toaster on Ebay, maybe the one you are refered to. I too thought it was a Video Toaster 2000 and so did the seller. Just like yours it does not say Video Toaster 4000 in large print. But in small print next to the patent information it says video toaster 4000-mom. It says this on both boards. I also noticed next to a JP2 jumper it says A4000, Finally it has a third small connector at the bottom for which the is no corrisponding socket in the A2000 video socket. It came with a 4.1 CD.

[DavidDB]

Hi
Its definitely a Toaster 4000. I took mine out of the Amiga and was looking at it yesterday and noticed the Video Toaster 4000-mom in microscopic print on the backside. I also have a Toaster 2000 now so I can compare the 2. I could have saved myself some trouble if I had looked there first. The 4.1 software is for the Flyer as well as the Toaster. I don't know if it includes the 3.5 software on the CD. The 4.3 version I'm using lets you install both versions. 3.5 is better for switching but the Lightwave and Toaster Paint programs that come with the later versions really rock--especially Toaster Paint. The earlier version looks just like Digi-Paint with Toaster functionality added but the later version stands out on it's own. I just bid on and won an Amiga 4000 Toaster and one of the motivations is so I can use Toaster Paint in it's full ham-8 glory. I'll also have another Toaster 4000 board for comparison.

[mysticpixels]

Wow! After all these years I finally get a Video Toaster and it turns out to be toaster 4000. What a nice suprise. I am glad you mentioned the 3.5 software, I had forgotten about that. I was thinking it jumped from 3.1 to 4.1. Do you know if I need to get 3.1 as well as 3.5 software?

My Amiga 2000 has been sitting in the closet for the last few years, waiting for it's victorious return. That day is here, an so I am getting reacquainted with it and it feels good. All of my 1080 monitors died in the last two years, so purchased a 17" NEC Multisync but don't have the vga adapter yet. I plan on getting video toaster compatible sync strainer but I was wondering if the Cybervision 64/3D card is comaptible with the toaster? Especially with the genlock. One last question does anyone know how well OS 3.9 works with the Video Toaster?

[DavidDB]

The 3.5 software is just about the same as the 3.1 software with lightwave 3.5. There is also 4.0, 4.2 and 4.3. I just checked my CDs and only the 4.3 cd has both versions of the software and lets you install both with no incompatibilities.
The Toaster is very particular about it's video and you might need a sync strainer if the cybervision card has an input that lets it pass through Amiga video. On the other hand, the Toaster does marvelous things to the Amiga 2000's monochrome video output quality and the software is designed to work with it so all you need to work with the Toaster on an Amiga 2000 is a 2 composite video monitors. I use the video input of my LCD TV for the Amiga mono and a mini DVD player with a video in for the Toaster out.I have a Merlin rtg card and it works with everything but the Toaster and I have to use the mono out when I'm using the Toaster. A sync strainer is supposed to cure this.

[tonyvdb]

...Do you know if I need to get 3.1 as well as 3.5 software?
3.5 was an upgrade to 3.1 so you need to have the 3.1 installed first before you can install the 3.5 disks unless you have the version 4.3 software CD.
The Video Toaster software version 4.3 was the last upgrade and by far the best. It gave you the ability to install both 3.5 and 4.2 virsions of the software at the same time thus giving you the best of both worlds if you intended to use the toaster as a live switcher or with the Flyer.

I plan on getting video toaster compatible sync strainer but I was wondering if the Cybervision 64/3D card is comaptible with the toaster? Especially with the genlock. One last question does anyone know how well OS 3.9 works with the Video Toaster?
The Cybervision will not pass through the video toaster output so you will still need at least a 1084 monitor and as the Cybervision requires the use of the video slot and so does the video toaster you will not be able to use them both as there is only one.
The sync strainer may not work with the NEC monitor but you will have to give it a try. The toaster requires a feedback signal form the monitor in order to function The Syncstrainer was designed to be used with a Commodore 1960 monitor that did not have this signal built in.
I am using OS 3.5 with my system (3.9 was just some bug fixes) and it seems to work just fine but make sure you continue to use the FFS file system as I recently upgraded to SFS and I am having issues.

Hope this answers your questions.

[DavidDB]

With an Amiga 2000 you won't need a 1084 monitor. The mono out will work fine. One advantage that the Amiga 2000 toaster has over the 4000.

I was just playing around with my 1084s and it's really a strange beast. I much prefer my LCD flat panel but the composite video in on the 1084 really rocks. I hooked up a video camera to the composite in and the video really has a presence. I like it much better as a composite video monitor than as a computer monitor. On the other hand it takes up a lot of space and it makes the hair stand up on the back of my hand from the high voltage from the screen--there's something like 60,000 volts on the inside of the monitor. It also hums. LCD monitors are much quieter and use a lot less energy. Mine has vga, composite and s-video(y/c) inputs. Very handy for the toaster. I just have to switch to composite in when I start the toaster. I can't sync to Amiga video with the VGA input but the Merlin card converts the Amiga modes to s-video which has just about as good a quality and much better than the 1084. The only thing it fails at is the Toaster. I bought a sync strainer which should arrive this week so I will soon find out if it works. According to the theory of it's operation, it should.

An the 4.3 version of the Toaster software is the best. Get it if you can. There are 3.5 CDs. I've seen them on Ebay. My Toaster came with 3.1 installed and I've since reformated the drive and reinstalled the operating system and put the 3.5 version on it and the only noticeable difference is that you have the option of using either lightwave 3.1 or 3.5. The 4.3 flyer software gives you the choice of lightwave 4 or 5.

[mysticpixels]

I think the lcd tv is a nice way to go, I was considering getting a 15" or 17" one and using it as a preview screen. I have been looking on Ebay a for Video Toaster software by itself. it comes up sometimes but not as often as with the boards or systems. There was some recently but I was not able to bid on it. Is there another good source for Amiga Video Toaster software besides Ebay?

[mysticpixels]

amigakit.com is selling a DCE Cybervision 64/3D which uses a Zorro II or Zorro III slot. so hopefully I will be able to switch back and forth with the native Amiga video for the toaster if neccessary. What type slot does the Merlin rtg video card use?

[mysticpixels]

A question about timebase correctors. Is it neccassary to have one for your input? Say for example you are using a digital camcorder with S-Video or composite out as one source and a DVD player as the other source, would they need to be synced the way analog tape decks have to be?

[mysticpixels]

Before my 1084 monitors blew out I always liked the composite side better than the rgb side too. I used them as Televisions alot when I wasn't using them on the Amiga. I look forward to your review on the sync strainer.

[DavidDB]

The sync strainer came yesterday. It does the job, but doesn't really do it that well. It is jittery and unstable on the main switcher screen and the setup up screen in the 3.1 software and the files screen in the 4.2 software are completely unstable. These are much better in monochrome. The saving grace is that it works well with Toaster Paint--seems to like ham mode video. It is also stable with Lightwave--it also likes interlaced video. These are sceenshots of it in action:

Amiga workbench with the sync strainer in passive mode
http://daviddbaca.googlepages.com/PIC00088.JPG/PIC00088-full.jpg

Toaster main switcher
http://daviddbaca.googlepages.com/PIC00108.JPG/PIC00108-full.jpg

Toaster main switcher in mono composite
http://daviddbaca.googlepages.com/PIC00097.JPG/PIC00097-full.jpg

Toaster files screen
http://daviddbaca.googlepages.com/PIC00099.JPG/PIC00099-full.jpg

Toaster Paint
http://daviddbaca.googlepages.com/PIC00102.JPG/PIC00102-full.jpg

Switcher wigged out
http://daviddbaca.googlepages.com/PIC00107.JPG/PIC00107-full.jpg

I forgot to mention another peculiarity of the 1084s monitor in my last post: It uses composite sync and not the horizontal and vertical sync signals which the Toaster turns to mush when it is active. That is why it works with the Toaster. The sync strainer takes the composite sync signal and "strains" the hsync and vsync signals from it when the Amiga is in genlock mode--ie when the Toaster is active. Like I said, it does the job, just not all that well. I hope it works better with the Amiga 4000 and AGA chipset. It might also work better if directly connected to a monitor. I don't have a 15khz multisync monitor to test this with.


The Merlin card is a Zorro II/III RTG card. They are fairly rare. There were made in Germany and very few were sold in the US. Mine came from Finland. If you wanted one you would have to search German and Dutch Ebay. They are very quirky. They have to have a couple of hardware mods to be stable with most Amigas. The Amiga to composite/S-video conversion is done entirely in hardware. The merlin software has only one screen mode that works in S-video but all the amiga modes come out the composite and s-video ports when they're passed through the input. They also come out in PAL video even though my Amiga is NTSC. All of this with no drivers installed. I am using it like this now because I don't plan on using the Merlin with this Toaster permanently. It will go better, I hope because there are possible incompatibilities, with the Toaster 4000 that should be arriving soon. The Amiga 2000 Toaster will strictly be for video and I'd like to add a v-scope card and a y/c plus card to it. That and the Flyer card I'm trying to get working with it will be more than enough. Mono composite will be fine for what I want to do with this system.

Ebay seems to be the only consistent source of all things Amiga. And it definitely has it's down side. The best deals are from sellers who just happen to have an Amiga or Toaster or other amiga item. The dedicated Amiga sellers are wicked. They like to chop working amiga systems to pieces and sell the parts for more than their worth. Most of them have lot's of negative feedback. Any when you're shopping, you have to compete with these same sellers who are looking for more amigas to cannibalize. It took about a month of bidding to finally win an Amiga 4000 for a reasonable amount of money. You can also try Craigslist. Depending on where you are, you might be able some great deals locally. Doesn't work here in rural New Mexico but in an urban area it's worth checking. Toaster software is pretty specialized and usually comes with a toaster. It does show up on ebay a lot. One of the most regular sources was one of the worst sellers and she was so bad that she finally had her account suspended.

Software hut also has these cybervision cards. They don't seem to have the optional flicker fixer card. EGS and Picasso cards are the other possibilities. Picasso IV cards go for outrageous prices but you might get an EGS spectrum or Picasso II for a decent price if you looked hard enough on Ebay and they're both Amiga 2000 compatible and you can download the software for them if you buy a card without software.

[mysticpixels]

What brand of sync strainer did you get? If I understand you right you need to switch back and forth between the merlin card and the sync strainer? Or do you pass the out put of the Merlin card through the sync strainer and switch video modes/settings? I always understand these things better when I am actually looking at them.

[DavidDB]

There is only one brand of sync strainer made by PreVue technologies. They go on Ebay for $25-$40 usually.

The sync strainer plugs into the Amiga RGB port and the output of the strainer is connected to the input of the Merlin with a vga cable. The monitor is connected to the s-video out of the Merlin. The switching and conversion is done automatically by the Merlin in hardware. Once I connect everything, there's nothing more to fuss with.

The Amiga video also comes out the Merlins vga out but the monitor can't sync to this.

[tonyvdb]

There is only one brand of sync strainer made by PreVue technologies. They go on Ebay for $25-$40 usually.

$25-40? I have sold 3 over the past 2 years (I had bought several used ones after they went out of production) and all of them have gone for more then $80US. I have one left that is used. New they were over $130.

[tonyvdb]

Software hut also has these cybervision cards. They don't seem to have the optional flicker fixer card. EGS and Picasso cards are the other possibilities. Picasso IV cards go for outrageous prices but you might get an EGS spectrum or Picasso II for a decent price if you looked hard enough on Ebay and they're both Amiga 2000 compatible and you can download the software for them if you buy a card without software.
The only issue here is that the Toaster requires the use of the video slot and because most Amigas only came with one (the exception being some A2000's and 4000Tower they had two) you cant use any of the Cybervision EGS or Picasso cards with the toaster in other Amigas due to this even if it usese the zorrow slots because the toaster will not passthrough video to that card. Also if I remember right the toaster requires a monitor to be connected to the built in Amigas video out in order to function due to a feedback signal required from the monitor.

[DavidDB]

Paid $36 for mine with shipping. Got outbid and lost one for $26 to the infamous and now ex Ebay seller Boogiegail. She won one another one for around under $40 that I bid on but I wasn't #2 on that auction. This is all within the last 6 weeks.

Ebay is like that. A similar Toaster 4000 to the one I just bought went for twice what I paid. I've seen DKB megachips go from between $40 and $200--I paid $200 for my Amiga 2000 toaster with a DKB megachip, Gvp accelerator, network card ,tbc card and Toaster 4000 included. You might have done a better job with your listing than the seller I bought it with. I am both a seller and a buyer on Ebay and there is a definite art to both buying and selling succesfully on Ebay. Someone asked me recently if I play computer games and I responded: "Not very often, Ebay is enough.

[tonyvdb]

Someone asked me recently if I play computer games and I responded: "Not very often, Ebay is enough.
:i_agree: :lol:

[DavidDB]

My Amiga 4000 Toaster arrived last week and it was in beautiful shape and everything worked except the Toaster 4000 Board--labeled Toaster 4000 this time. Not only did the Toaster 4000 board malfunction, it dragged down the whole zorro bus with it and I couldn't get any other zorro cards to work when it was installed. I was so glad I had another Toaster 4000 board on hand.

And so now I have an Amiga 2000 Toaster with a Toaster 2000 board which has a much better mechanical fit than the the Toaster 4000 board and also lets me run the Toaster 2.0 software as well as the newer versions of the software, and I have a Toaster 4000 with a working Toaster 4000 board that can be used to it's full capacity.

[mysticpixels]

The only issue here is that the Toaster requires the use of the video slot and because most Amigas only came with one (the exception being some A2000's and 4000Tower they had two) you cant use any of the Cybervision EGS or Picasso cards with the toaster in other Amigas due to this even if it usese the zorrow slots because the toaster will not passthrough video to that card. Also if I remember right the toaster requires a monitor to be connected to the built in Amigas video out in order to function due to a feedback signal required from the monitor.

My understanding from a contact at Softhut, you can use a monitor switch box between the 24 bit Video card and the Toastscan. I would think you could do the same with the PreVue sync strainer.

[tonyvdb]

My understanding from a contact at Softhut, you can use a monitor switch box between the 24 bit Video card and the Toastscan.
Nope, You must have an Amiga monitor or an Amiga compatable monitor connected to the Sync strainer. A PC monitor will not work as they do not support the low 15kHz NTSC refresh rates. So you will need two monitors (one for the Amiga and the other for the graphics card). and only if the graphics card doesn't use the video slot.

[mysticpixels]

Nope, You must have an Amiga monitor or an Amiga compatable monitor connected to the Sync strainer. A PC monitor will not work as they do not support the low 15kHz NTSC refresh rates. So you will need two monitors (one for the Amiga and the other for the graphics card). and only if the graphics card doesn't use the video slot.

Right, however some pc multisync monitors do sync down to 15kHz, which I am hoping mine does once I can test it.