Beware of iDof 'crack and keygen'...

[jeremyhardin]

Hi all. Just thought I'd drop a quick warning here. I've recently seen iDof come up in a google search as cracked on a couple of warez sites.

The zips include .exe files, which are certainly NOT iDof. Oh, and a keygen for something that doesn't take a key. Hmm.

In short, the files are probably spyware or malware. Use it and you'll likely get what you deserve for trying to crack a $20 plugin that has a free demo. :devil:

[Lightwolf]

Ain't that the truth... US$49 exrTrader has been cracked as well, some people have no shame...

Cheers,
Mike

[Phil]

I'm aware that FF4 and Dynamite have also both been cracked. Pathetic, really. Both have demos. There's no excuse.

[Thomas]

Hi all. Just thought I'd drop a quick warning here. I've recently seen iDof come up in a google search as cracked on a couple of warez sites.

The zips include .exe files, which are certainly NOT iDof. Oh, and a keygen for something that doesn't take a key. Hmm.

In short, the files are probably spyware or malware. Use it and you'll likely get what you deserve for trying to crack a $20 plugin that has a free demo. :devil:
Haha!
Well, if I had been you, I wouldn't have said anything. Those that use warez should suffer. :devil:

But you should probably feel a bit proud though...

The plug looks really nice, going to my plugins-folder soon methinks :thumbsup:


Regards
Thomas

[Thomas]

Ain't that the truth... US$49 exrTrader has been cracked as well, some people have no shame...
I find this very disturbing.

Sorry to hear that. :thumbsdow


But, hehe, methinks it's coming to my plugin-folder pretty soon...

(The LEGAL way that is...) :)


Regards
Thomas

[Sensei]

EasySplit demo, plug-in that was at that time for $30, was also converted to half working cracked version but without time limits.. The result was removing demo version entirely from downloading.. My advise for other 3rd party developers - don't make demo versions and always ask for LW dongle id using specialized software like ShowSystemInformation..
http://www.trueart.eu/Products/Plug-Ins/Files/ShowSystemInformation_1_1.zip
http://www.trueart.eu/Products/Plug-Ins/Files/ShowSystemInformation_1_1.sit
Using this software I had to refund $5000 just in 2006 year because customers that purchased my plug-ins stoled LightWave and had illegal copy.. There is less chance that somebody that has legal copy of LightWave will risk giving it to cracker for making cracked version, thinking there might be special check marks showing who they are..

BTW, Jeremy do you have Skype account? I, LightWolf, K-Ray author and others are exchanging information about illegal dongle id.. So, chat to me "senseiek", if you also want to know who is legal and who is illegal, or other LightWave programming things.. :)

[Lightwolf]

My advise for other 3rd party developers - don't make demo versions and always ask for LW dongle id using specialized software like ShowSystemInformation..
We thought long and hard about it. However, we believe that giving away functionality for free (which both of our plugins do) outweighs the disadvantages.
Heck, the cracks will show up anyhow. We try instead to provide the best possible support (forum, skype, e-mail, phone, ICQ...) and to make the registration process as painless as possible.

I'd hate to see that approach fail...

Cheers,
Mike

[Phil]

EasySplit demo, plug-in that was at that time for $30, was also converted to half working cracked version but without time limits.. The result was removing demo version entirely from downloading.. My advise for other 3rd party developers - don't make demo versions and always ask for LW dongle id using specialized software like ShowSystemInformation..


Errr. I tend to think very, very hard about dropping cash on a plugin without a demo (especially for ones priced at $100 or more). Of the plugins I picked up in 2005/2006 :

Cheap ones like exrTrader, IFW2 and iDof were easy decisions. For the others :

- HDInstance has no demo version, and is pricey. It was a leap of faith based on reports from users and an established history of being reliable.
- FF4 was a leap of faith after extensive communication with the developer. It had no demo version then, but does now.
- Maestro had a demo, otherwise I would not have risked it. I think it is a superb product, and the support is wonderful.
- IFW2 has lite versions that give you an idea of the capability of the full version.
- infiniMap and exrTrader have demo versions (lite versions, essentially).
- Dynamite, too, has a demo version. I'm a little pissed that the developer appears to have vanished and taken my bug report with him. The plugin works, granted, and gives good results, but it's not without problems.
- CR2Loader was a leap of faith, with some background information that aided me.

Honestly, if you are pitching some at $100 or above, I will be either expecting really detailed and honest answers to a large number of questions about your product, and may still walk away, or I'll be wanting a demo version (and will probably email you anyway).

You can ask me for a dongle ID for the demo. You can push out a crippled, but representative demo. You can compile my details in if you are sufficiently paranoid, but a demo is increasingly important when you start wanting $100 or more. I'd also like to have the license be available for more than just one platform, but that's not a deal breaker in most cases.

I'm likely awkward in this way, but I spent more on addons for LW in 2006 than at any time since 1995 (including all the plugins just mentioned, as well as others). Probably something like 90% of them (in monetary terms) on the basis of demo versions.

[connerh]

I also have a lot of trouble investing in programs with no demo. When I first got Lightwave, I had used an install from a friends disk and just ran it in Discovery Mode before buying it. All the other software that I've bought, I've demoed (except for Vue and LWCad, but I got those bundled with the 9.0 upgrade). If there's no demo, I almost always look for other programs that do the same/similar things but also have a demo available. If it's a $30 plugin, however, I can understand the lack of demo. In that case, I'm generally satisfied with ample screenshots/videos showing the interface and the functionality. I think that most people who are going to pirate a program really have no intention of buying the program in the first place, and those who take advice from pirates on what to buy or not buy without taking said advice with a grain of salt probably weren't seriously interested either. So, in my opinion, demos (even limited ones) outweigh not putting out anything. Piracy and cracked software are things that won't ever go away, and as software developers you must accept this as a fact of life, however unfortunate.

Also, maybe an odd question, but if you're the sole writer and developer of a program, and release it with a disclaimer that states that you may not reverse engineer the software etc, and you pirate your own program, could you essentially sue yourself? :P

[Lightwolf]

I think that most people who are going to pirate a program really have no intention of buying the program in the first place...
Actually, the problem is the web-shops that sell cracks as "OEM" copies at a fraction of the price. Which in the end means: as a customer only buy from a shop that you're sure sells legit copies (usually linked from the manufacturers homepage).

And there ain't much you can as a developer if said shops are in countries with a ... hm, lesser developed legal system.

Cheers,
Mike

[tonybliss]

Well as 'wrong' as it sounds, I used to 'try before I buy' programs learn it and once profitable I definitely bought it.
classic example- 3 years ago I was a licensed 3d max 4 user and someone suggested LW to me. I got hold of a pirated copy of LW 7 and was way impressed with my comfort level in the program. Today I am the proud owner of LW 8 and 9; I also administrated the order of ten edu seats for where I started a 3D course and we just recently received our LW 9 upgrades.
I also encourage my students to BUY their copy of LW. If I do company training they DO buy copy(ies) as needed.
to date i have bought 'all' my major commercial software and plugins.
As a multimedia developer and content writer/creator it WOULD hurt me if someone stole my stuff or shared it withoutot the proper creditations, etc.
so I am one who condemns pirating but from experience would disagree that people who pirate have no intention of buying the actual program.

[Lightwolf]

We actually haven't used exrTrader yet, but hopefully soon we will.
We hope so too ;) (Mind you, our plugins are designed in a way that you can still load, save and render the scenes with unlicensed copies of the software - a feature that would be lost - or hard to maintain - if our registration process would be more restrictive).
I've always followed the same rules at my own studio, no pirated software, even if it means not being able to accept a job (because we couldn't afford the tools for it).
I can't say that all studios handle things the same way, but if they stay in the biz they do.
I also can't stress the importance of good support, especially when you're using a product in production, you're in crunch and things don't work as expected (I rate eyeon _very_ highly in that regard).

Cheers,
Mike

[Elmar Moelzer]

We have been seeing cracks for VoluMedic as well. Given it is expensive, but we have a fully working 30 day demo.
Anyway we contacted the responsible people and they wont crack it again ;)
We really felt the cracks becoming available. We got waaaay less demos of VoluMedic out since the crack has been available.

CU
Elmar

[tonybliss]

Hey i am considering recommending Volumedic workstation to a large private medical institution here in Trinidad for their medical visualisation and scanning/output. INNOVATIVE software.

[Captain Obvious]

People cracking 3dsmax or Maya, I can understand. They're highly expensive, and the demo versions are very limited. But cracking a cheap-as-heck plugin? What's the point?

[Thomas]

I've always followed the same rules at my own studio, no pirated software, even if it means not being able to accept a job (because we couldn't afford the tools for it).
I got a job-request last year that would involve software I didn't have at the time. When asked for a price I calculated half of the cost of the software into the price for the job. They took it and the software has since paid for itself a few times over. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't :D


Regards
Thomas

[gjjackson]

The original place I worked for use pirated copies of LW for the PC as well as the Amiga.

Not long ago our company was audited for Legal software. There was a push in that direction. Don't know if it is still. It's harder to accomplish with individuals. Cracked software sure goes back a long time. I'm looking forward to FF going to dongle check. I especially like that route because I'll try out something on different computers and can just carry the dongle.

[pixelinfected]

and old challenge between the software developer and cracker...
most of craker write in their comment "if you like this software, buy it"
i remember the old times when custom plugins come in the crack market...

actually most of software have demo, and most of software are 30 days + 30, or limited version, there are no excuse to use cracked version of software.

i spent most of my money in software, update of software and movie, and i hate to see that demo are stopped be cause there are people that never will buy software, but to collect (exactly the word collect) all software developed.
like people that download all movie that can download, but often not see that...

in past i used crack version of some software that are not avaible like demo, but usually if there is a demo i prefer to test it, i can understand if work fine, with a cracked version you cannot understand if problem is from crack or from a bad developed software.

a develop a bit, and i know that there is a lot of work under a simple software, that mean hundred of hours that you must pay to developer or he stop to develop it...

my preferred way of protection is that like use butterfly netrender or maestro developer use, you have a limited demo on line, and you can test the product, but final real product is codified and sended only to user, that mean developer can understand if some his clients send to cracker the software, and usually who pay for a product not like to spread like gift to people that wann't to pay for it.

[Dave Jerrard]

Anyway we contacted the responsible people and they wont crack it again ;)Ouch. What did you contact them with? The front of a fast moving truck or the business end of a baseball bat or something? :hammer:


He Who Will Be Careful About How He's Contacted By Elmar Now. ;)

[tonybliss]

Hehhehheh :D

[jeremyhardin]

BTW, Jeremy do you have Skype account? I, LightWolf, K-Ray author and others are exchanging information about illegal dongle id.. So, chat to me "senseiek", if you also want to know who is legal and who is illegal, or other LightWave programming things.. :)

Sounds very useful. Yes, as soon as I get my home computer online (stupid NTL takes a month to schedule), I'll give you a skype-ring.

My advise for other 3rd party developers - don't make demo versions and always ask for LW dongle id using specialized software like ShowSystemInformation.
Why use specialized software? What are the benefits of that over just asking the user flat-out for their dongle ID?

[Elmar Moelzer]

No I figured out, who they are and wrote them an email, where I told them the truth that this is important for the survival of a small company and that it would be nice if they did not do it again...
They were actually quite nice in their reply.
Still if they decided to release a crack again, there would not be much that we could do. The crack for version 1.0 is out already anyway and spread over various warez sites. We usually sacrifize a couple of hours a week to contact providers and all that to make sure it is removed (which is not always possible due to them being in some dubious countries, etc).
The weird thing is that our software is targeted at professionals in all it does and the usual crack collecting geek does not have any use for it anyway. I was expecting less cracks being used in our target userbase. Thats one reason why we did not waste much time with a sophisticated copy protection and rather spent the time on features...
Thats another way how warez hurts the legal end- user, IMHO. If there was les warez, developers would not need to waste time with copy protection.
CU
Elmar

[kilvano]

It may sound like a stupid thing to say but a LOT of people esp at uni use illegal versions of LW. I still get surpirsed even further when they have the cheek to post on the official forums looking for tech support cause their copy of LW isnt working but thats another issue.

A lot of those people obviously cant give a dongle number and therefore cannot purchase the plugin legally. At the end of the day Crackers with crack anything for the reputation.

A simple way would be for LW to call home every so often to check dongle IDs against the reg number. Its a bit Big Brotherish but it would stop the illegal use of the software...until it gets cracked

[Sensei]

Why use specialized software? What are the benefits of that over just asking the user flat-out for their dongle ID?

You can use checksum to be sure that client didn't enter any number of head, after realising that otherwise he/she will be recognized to have illegal copy.. In my case usually pirating people just does not respond to registration mail with ShowSystemInformation plug-in..

[jeremyhardin]

You can use checksum to be sure that client didn't enter any number of head, after realising that otherwise he/she will be recognized to have illegal copy.. In my case usually pirating people just does not respond to registration mail with ShowSystemInformation plug-in..

Right. I see. Thanks. I've only just added dongle-checking to this version. So I'm still a bit new at beating the pirates. :o

[Phil]

A simple way would be for LW to call home every so often to check dongle IDs against the reg number. Its a bit Big Brotherish but it would stop the illegal use of the software...until it gets cracked

And that's when I start thinking very carefully about staying with LW. I'm not a fan of activation or phone-home applications. At all. What happens if NewTek lose/corrupt their database? If you are running an old version of LW that relies on the phone-home to work, you'll probably be screwed. If the server goes down, or the company folds, you'll also be screwed. What's to stop them charging a subscription fee at some point?

I paid for my stuff, so resent it enormously when developers work on ways to treat me like a 'criminal' before the fact. The utmost I will tolerate, and only just, is the system in use for PointOven and (currently, but soon to change to dongle) Fiber Factory. Without the developer's cooperation, you cannot reinstall and use this software without an activation key, even on the same machine. If your system died abruptly (or got stolen and replaced), well you're just completely out of luck unless the developer cooperates. If the developer goes bust, you're also screwed. This despite the fact that I *own* one or more licenses....I'm not renting the **** thing.

I was irritated to discover the licensing control in use by both PointOven and Fiber Factory. I'd expected them to be dongle-tied, and have repeatedly bitched to the developers about the system. Fiber Factory is changing, thankfully, although I expect the crackers to do their worst almost immediately.

Aside from anything else, one could probably emulate the server (just like the infamous Chinese server that activates ripped off copies of Windows Vista).

Develop a good product, on as many platforms as you can (for which LW is available). Provide documentation and be responsive to support/feature requests. Lock the addon to the dongle. With all of that, you'll stand the best chance of getting my cash.

[pixelinfected]

guys, i can suggest you a solution like other dev do.
demo limited (not unlockable from user) and final plug locked to dongle and a serial in the plugins, that allow you to understand who give its plugins to a cracker.

try to see if there are a crack copy of maestro or butterflynet render or similar product?

and see how fast going the cracked copy of worley plugs, that are avaible for download... there was a period that cracker build a keygen for worley product, and was a very bad thing. personally i thought is not useful be cause without wornderful gift that steve W send with its plugins you cannot live ;-P but this kind of plugins are pretty unsable without documentation.

fprime, which is first are not avaible for download need many times to find its place in the warez market.

actually the good polician is to have a contact directly with newtek to check the list of actual working dongle of lw, the reason? a guy that have a dongle like usb superkey pro can request and buy from you a plugin locked to a dongle.

think to digital fusion that use same kind of dongle of lw... and if you use a dongle for dfusion and one for lw, only one application can work at time, be cause that kind of dongle software not recognize two dongle at same time...

last year i see that exist a license gen for lw8, never i saw that, and i use lw from version 3.5, i saw every kind of cracked version of lw (every friends that saw lw at my home or studio immediately want to try it) but never i saw a license gen, that allow a guy with a simple dongle usb or parallel to run full lw8-lw8.5 without risk of instability...

warez is difficult to fight, developer can work hard to do a good protection, but i think that is better to educate people to legality, it will be more productive.

[pixelinfected]

It may sound like a stupid thing to say but a LOT of people esp at uni use illegal versions of LW. I still get surpirsed even further when they have the cheek to post on the official forums looking for tech support cause their copy of LW isnt working but thats another issue.

A lot of those people obviously cant give a dongle number and therefore cannot purchase the plugin legally. At the end of the day Crackers with crack anything for the reputation.

A simple way would be for LW to call home every so often to check dongle IDs against the reg number. Its a bit Big Brotherish but it would stop the illegal use of the software...until it gets cracked

not confortable, for user and for developer.
you cannot complex the life of regular user to fight the illegal user.
an example?
i have a notebook where i not have a firewire, and i add a pcmcia firewire card. if i extract the card, computer understand that like a net address change, and that cause a problem to my software locked to a notebook, what mean?
zbrush-maya 7-premiere pro 1.5-soundforge-photoshopcs2 and more are all locked, until i not call all producer and unlock them, or connect to internet and request unlock code....
holy sh*** is not possible that if i'm a place where i not have internet and i have only a mobile phone, for zbrush i must do an inter continental call...
when i'm in travel i must keep with me a keygen for all software that i pay (and not two bucks but a lots of bucks) and i'm not allowed to use for a theri lack on a protection system, and illegal user can solve the problems in a few seconds....

LightWave and Newtek found a great solution, i wrote on box the license key code and in my usb pen, if i need i can put my usb pen, my dongle in anywhere computer, and i have all lw and plugins working (ehm not all plugins.. most of them to be honest) with my custom configuration...

Maxon do a similar solution with numerical code sended from developer, and you can move from a computer to another, be cause also c4d not need to install....

please Developer think first to honest user, then to illegal user, be cause most of illegal user are collector not real user, and are not a lost money but only annoyed people that collect plugins like album that never ear and movie that never see..

[starbase1]

A simple way would be for LW to call home every so often to check dongle IDs against the reg number. Its a bit Big Brotherish but it would stop the illegal use of the software...until it gets cracked

Lightwave DOES call home, at least according to my firewall...

I have no idea what it is doing, and nothing seems to stop working if you don't let it through.

Nick

[Lightwolf]

Lightwave DOES call home, at least according to my firewall...

No, it calls localhost (which is the box it runs on). The Hub uses TCP/IP to communicate with Modeler and Layout.

Cheers,
Mike

[jeremyhardin]

Lightwave DOES call home, at least according to my firewall...

I have no idea what it is doing, and nothing seems to stop working if you don't let it through.

Nick

Are you sure it's not just calling the hub through TCP/IP? Or is this different activity that the firewall picks up?

[kilvano]

Yeah...i checked the firewall on my wireless router...no out going from lightwave.

Its just using TCP/IP to communicate between the Hub, Modeller and Layout. This sometimes crashes the hub cause my firerwall is a pain in the ***.

[Dave Jerrard]

There's no place like 127.0.0.0


He Who Really Should Get That T-Shirt.

[starbase1]

OK, that sounds like the explanation.

I must say though I do find that the LW approach to this is generally fair and relatively painless - it lets me treat the program like a physical object, i.e. one working instance that I can move around as I see fit, without needing their permission.

Nick

[kilvano]

I quite like the Maya approach to piracy.

Make the prog soooo hard to install correctly that any pirate will give up! Well that was one i tried a few years ago that just wouldnt install. It was only the PLE version for god sake!

[Wonderpup]

A great example of how not to do copy protection was how EON handled the Vue/lightwave bundle- the sheer frustration of dealing with about three different sets of reg codes at various stages, plus the lack of direction from eon themselves created such a negative impression on me that I've barely touched the thing since.

It is kind of ironic that someone using a cracked version can often be up and running faster than a legitimate user- so there is probably a law of diminishing returns here; if being a legitimate user involves jumping through multiple hoops and accepting severe usage limitations, people may turn to cracks not for financial reasons but simply because it's an easier and more flexible way to get up and running.

I think the best way to handle this issue is to offer online 'carrots' to legitimate users, stress the 'benefits of membership' angle.

[starbase1]

A great example of how not to do copy protection was how EON handled the Vue/lightwave bundle- the sheer frustration of dealing with about three different sets of reg codes at various stages, plus the lack of direction from eon themselves created such a negative impression on me that I've barely touched the thing since.


And then when you registered it, after jumping through those hoops your $50 content voucher dropped to a $20 voucher...

[GCL]

And then when you registered it, after jumping through those hoops your $50 content voucher dropped to a $20 voucher...

Amen to that statement. Also the inability to buy what you really desire with your voucher. That is, tutorials and items created by users not accepting vouchers (Web store *should* accept all vouchers and reimburse sellers).

[art]

After I received an email from eon stating that my voucher would soon expire I decided (finally) to spend it on some trees. I found out that the tree species I was interested in could not be bought with my voucher. I tried different foliage and I received the same message.

[Lightwolf]

Hah, cool, we have to think about introducing that kind of useless vouchers for our customers as well ;)

...not! (obviously, I am kidding).

One things for sure though, this thread really announces the fact that there are cracks for a variety of plugins out there ;)

Cheers,
Mike

[don_culbertson]

A great example of how not to do copy protection was how EON handled the Vue/lightwave bundle- the sheer frustration of dealing with about three different sets of reg codes at various stages, plus the lack of direction from eon themselves created such a negative impression on me that I've barely touched the thing since.

And this is why I won't waste time or money on their upgrade to Vue 6.

[JamesCurtis]

For my Vue stuff, I used the credits for Buildings and a few other things. I recently had bought Vue 6 Infinite and had $35.00 to spend. Still have $15.00 left so I plan on getting a few other things too. BTW, Cornocopia has quite a few free models if you go through ALL of the categories.

But yeah, its a real pain to install. I'm trying to install my upgrade to another machine and have had plenty of difficulty getting it to work. the install keeps ashing for my old vue5 upgrade serial and my LW one - even though they have told me it is not neccesary to have Vue5 installed. Gotta see about that one.

[starbase1]

If you are not planning on getting much, or getting into Vue, maybe get some atmospheres - it's nice and easy to make big sky images and export them for use in LW...

[fyffe]

- HDInstance has no demo version, and is pricey. It was a leap of faith based on reports from users and an established history of being reliable.

Eh? It's always had a demo, albeit a slightly feature crippled one:

http://www.happy-digital.com/instance_demo.asp

Glad you like it anyway :D

[Phil]

Has it? Oops. Never noticed :)