Setup Possibilities for School

[brians0105]

Hi, I'm a college student majoring in Radio/TV at Bradley in Peoria, IL.

I'm also helping my highschool completely re-design their studio and equipment with grant money. I saw the Tricaster in use at NAB05 and really liked it. Plus the Newtek Educational use prices are a plus.

I am asking you pro's here what your advice is... VT4 or Tricaster? If VT4, what computer system?

What we need:
3 cameras (4 if we go w/ the VT4)
Digital video playout from within the Tricaster/VT4
Breakout switcher controler

It seems that with the educational prices, we might just want to go with the VT4. I would like to do some live sports events. Is the VT4 better for this?

If we do go with the VT4, I am new to SCSI and dual core terms. I can build PCs, but haven't had SCSI drives or dual core systems.

Thanks for any advice you all can provide!

[rbartlett]

Tricaster would seem the best legacy to leave your college - considering that however adept you are with computer engineering - you may not be spending the length of your professional career at the college.

There is a recipe for a VT that you could follow. More usually the state purchasing requirements mean you need to buy from a PC vendor or shortlist of integrators/dealers. This forces some folks down the Dell and B&H path where a focused NewTek dealer would come in better and more often than not cheaper. Building a realtime-all-of-the-time video workstation is a lot more than you might think. I wouldn't like to compromise your educational career with PC support being any significant diversion.

As you'll see in the min requirements, SCSI isn't mandatory. Switching needs some uumph for DDR and live-recording, especially concurrently.

Based on your camera requirements being a bottom-up design (ie dependent on what NewTek product you have an interest in , 3 for TC, 4 for VT) - it is difficult to guide you to a regular TriCaster outfit with enough certainty that you'll be satisfied with 3 inputs.

I'd lean towards affording 2x Tricaster for an academic institute rebuilding on grant money for live. Make a copy of the recovery discs for yourself - just in case the lab technician loses or breaks their local copy. Then get on and enjoy the fruits. This is your/your-college's edit suite though!

2 TriCasters would allow you to take 5 feeds, 3 with slightly extra frame/field delay and have operatives contributing to the program flow and dynamic sports scoring updates and the likes. You will also be able to quickly fashion this solution into an outside-broadcast/on-road setup if necessary. VT can do the same but the entry costs are higher. The money does buy you more options (full VT-Edit, LW, Aura, better plug-in opporunity), assuming this is within the scope of this application.

[vanderwielen]

My vote is the toaster. You'll run up against limitations for connecting tape decks, cameras, dvd players. Don't forget that you can also use the PC to manipulate images (with Paint, Photoshop...etc). Tricaster is great if you can definitively pre-define the use and are aware of its limitations. At an educational institution, your imagination needs a larger horizon.

[Jim_C]

If you can get the funding than VTx is a winner by a LONG shot.

Remember Tricaster is pretty much a closed system. No plugins, no real tinkering under the hood. It's very powerful but also rather rudimentary.

Made for the 'I can teach a 5th grader' kinda thing.
Again tho it is uber powerful in what it is made to do...
But it's made to do what it can do and that is it.
No to mention that the editor included in Tricaster is not nearly as robust and powerful as VT-Edit/Speed Edit.

But for a college that would need expandibility options, ability to write your own scripts, plug in 24(sorry typo I had 64 at first) cameras if need be, upgrade upgrade upgrade the platform it is in, VT all the way.

Just thumb thru the VT-Script section here or the Community section and check out the skins, scoreboards, and assorted plugins made for the VT, you'll see what I mean by expandibilty.

Jim

[rbartlett]

Yes, considering what your majoring in. VT is the whole 9 yards.

It seemed to sit quite well for someone who wants the power of NewTek kit but not the responsibilities of saying what can and can't be done with that PC by the IT-squad who might want it to be on the campus network, antivirus'd and the likes. A TriCaster has an appliance orientation, but really it costs less and is less than a dedicated workstation with VT on it.

2x Pizazz VT2Go (Rackmount/portable, VTPro, SX84, RS8) systems would be optimal. 1x VT and 1x Tricaster would be rocking, 2x Tricaster maybe a quality solution.

Where a VT is part of the solution, I'd add:

NewTek's 3D ACT bundle and any ammo plug-ins (ex ToasterDudes)
Bobs : Multicam, LWConnect, 3rd channel,
vtworx.com 's: toybox and
YoungMonkey.ca 's: ScoreKeeper/Data Overlayer

If TriCaster Pro was within budget:
YoungMonkey's TemplateMaker Pro looks beneficial. I think some VT plug-ins have been made TriCaster friendly - they are applied using USB memory "dongles" afaik.

However we don't quite yet know of the scope of this/these machine/s duties? Perhaps brians0105 could elaborate on current activities, forecast and wished for roles for such a system.

[brians0105]

Hey guys! Thanks for the input. A little more information and clarification:

This system will actually be for the highschool that I attended. I go back a couple days a week and help with the already established TV program. They already have the machines to edit on and they work fairly well. So the NewTek system would just be for live switching and video playout.

They edit on P4 systems using Pinnacle Studio 9.

My vision is that they can go tapeless from the edit systems to making it to air. Will something like this work?
-Edit on pinnacle
-Export to AVI/MPEG
-Transfer to VT4/Tricaster via Network
-Air to school on VT4/Tricaster

I am also leaning toward the VT4 mainly for live sports. Is this the overall suggestion?

Money is AND isn't an issue since they got a grant, but we're also looking at new studio cams and teleprompters... so I don't want to overkill with the switcher.

Maybe the VT2Go is the way to go.

However, if I built a new system myself, I would probalby use a Dual Core or Dual CPU Athlon XP 3.0+GHz. 500GB+ of space and probalby 2.0+GB of Ram. Would this be acceptable?

[vanderwielen]

I'd suggest standardizing on MPEG2 production, since studio 9 easily does this. You could also use a hauppauge win-tv to ingest MPEG2 on the fly and then use a non-destructive file cutter like the one made by womble media to trim the front, back and middle of the MPEG2 files.

I know the VT can play MPEG2s, though I think it does it somewhat less than perfect (plays 10 meg files but not 1gig on my toaster). So, I'd buy a XCARD from Sigma designs (99$) and install it in a separate PC. The XCARD integrates directly with winamp and you can merely stack MPEGs in the winamp media player and the XCARD converts them to composite, YC or Component NTSC video.

Therefore, you could run the MPEGs to air without the Toaster leaving it available for production.

Simply click 'repeat' on the winamp player and go home. Or you can build playlists ahead of time then use windows scheduler to fire them at predetermined times.

Sounds simple doesnt it? I own 2 commercial television stations that do this and have for 4 years.

[Zane Condren]

If you need scheduling ability I would use this plugin for VT4 http://www.pizazzme.com/shop/proddetail.php?prod=DigitalBroad&cat=12
Its much more powerful then winamp

[vanderwielen]

perhaps true, but a typcially television playlist in a calendar day is nearly 800 files. winamp allows the files to be laid in while on the air and removed. the use of this approach allows the station to be independant of the toaster. plus, playlists are created on separate computers, moved to the playout computer and windows scheduler fires the playlists at appropriate times. Dont get me wrong, we love our toasters, but it's not really a video server. It's a great production tool...nothing else like it...but it has limitations in this particular matter.:D

[brians0105]

Thanks again. We don't have any need for scheduling as it will just be used for a daily live program... not for a 24/7 station.

If I were to go with the VT4ToGo, could I easily hook up an external mouse and keyboard? We would use the VT4ToGo when we do sports, but possibly hooking up an external mouse and keyboard in our studio would be best.

[Jim_C]

I know the VT can play MPEG2s, though I think it does it somewhat less than perfect

I would hold off on judging the VT's ability to play files until SE is included within it.



The VTtoGo is completely and totally a brain child of Jef and his crew at Pizazz. You will want to confer with him directly on it's ability.

Jef is one of the best when it comes to customizing top notch VT systems of any and every kind for just about any and every use.
He!!uva guy too..

He's one fo those doods who has an email machine wired to his central nervous sytem so send him a note and he'll get back to ya...

jefkethley@pizazzme.com

Jim

[rbartlett]

However, if I built a new system myself, I would probalby use a Dual Core or Dual CPU Athlon XP 3.0+GHz. 500GB+ of space and probalby 2.0+GB of Ram. Would this be acceptable?

If this was just for your evolving edit bay at home, where any problems could be fixed in time, then I'd say yes to your question. OK, you may be able to source components cheaply and if they don't work as hoped, be able to return them for a restocking fee. However I cannot emphasize enough on the value of a product and the support you'll get from a dealer. I'm not a dealer of VT nor am I affiliated with one.

Processor this, on chipset that with wanna-these-gfx-cards and wanna-these storage controllers and this-set-of-drives will get you up and working. You don't really want bleeding edge (with unstable/emerging native OS drivers) you want a proven platform. The dealers do all the research for you and if you do nothing else, get a quote from one against a homebrew solution. They also have educational pricing and if one is more local to you,..... well.... who knows.


The (ideally Xeon/1333) Core2Duo are significantly advantageous but a lesser system can work for you. A multiple bus architecture is recommended (for it's parallelism). More recent southbridges can supply this for performance level SATA functionality, as you are probably already aware.

How the PCI or PCI-X slots are presented (and what else shares that bus) is very important in what components the integrator of a VT system selects. This type of design is usually very new to folks irrespective of their IT/building background. I'm trying to put you off the idea, rather than say it can't be done. If you look through the forums here and elsewhere you will get yourself a parts list - but it will take almost as much effort to tune-out all the unnecessary fluff that will be installed by XP. Folks continue to use VT, including for Live! applications with quite modest system specs, but invariably they did some qualification that the machine would work before they ordered. Those that didn't often say that they will next time because of one thing or another. It is so easy to get taken in by a board makers marketing blurb or a tomshardware review. One day they may include VT in their evaluations, but until they do, assume that WMEncoder and TMPGEnc performance figures are only part of the story ;) .

VT has a very strong force behind it to squash any bugs or failings in the software/firmware. However if you're the only one with a particular issue, with a unique system, then you may feel left out there rather if you can't get the fault repeated elsewhere and fixed for you. 'nuff said.

What about the IT department in your faculty or campus? Will they want to adopt this machine into their support program? Although there might be some benefit in bringing in work from the campus network - I'd be reluctant to put anything other than sneakernet access to this machine in place.

Despite all of the above. This task and how it becomes a diversion for you could work out to be a very rewarding experience. I wish you the very best whilst you work out the specifics.

On the subject of the other equipment you need to order. You might not go far wrong to run through some of that purchasing here too. Perhaps something for a new post/thread.

[PIZAZZ]

Thanks for all the kind words guys. I am finally finished with a 5 system build for the NCAA and have a little time to catch up here.

There are so many variables to consider here. Brian emailed me and we are going to talk more about his unique situation.

Again, Thanks for your support my friends.

[billmi]

They edit on P4 systems using Pinnacle Studio 9.

My vision is that they can go tapeless from the edit systems to making it to air. Will something like this work?
-Edit on pinnacle
-Export to AVI/MPEG
-Transfer to VT4/Tricaster via Network
-Air to school on VT4/Tricaster


Yes, that will work. Something worth mentioning, you have only talked about the VT in a switcher role. If you did not already know this, it has a very fast to use, powerful, realtime editor (VT Edit) as well. So when it is not seeing use as a switcher, it is another edit bay.

As for the build or buy configured, I built my own and am very happy I did - but I spent months researching before I did. Especially in a school environment where you as the system builder may not be available whenever there is a need for reconfiguration or upgrading, it is really worth working with an authorized NewTek dealer.

[jsanfilippo]

[QUOTE=vanderwielen] So, I'd buy a XCARD from Sigma designs (99$) and install it in a separate PC. The XCARD integrates directly with winamp and you can merely stack MPEGs in the winamp media player and the XCARD converts them to composite, YC or Component NTSC video.
QUOTE]

I'm very interested in this XCard for use in addition to my VT.
I searched the Sigma designs website (http://www.sigmadesigns.com/public/index.html)
but couldn't find anything about it. Can anyone give me more info. Do they not sell it anymore?

[vanderwielen]

http://www2.shopping.com/xPO-Sigma_Design_REALmagic_Xcard

[tlucio]

Hi Brian -- Jef definitely is the guru to talk to in regards to your situation. As far as VT and TriCaster are concerned for HS live broadcast, it really depends on how advanced the instructor is (does he/she know VT and have time to teach VT to students?) and how far the HS wants to take this program. Also, you say it's live -- will the broadcast also be streamed via Internet? If yes, TriCaster might be a good fit. TriCaster is also a good fit for a beginning program since the learning curve is relatively minimal. Bottom line, both are very good at achieving your goal, it just depends on how much time and money you're willing to invest in the program. Give me a call if you want -- 210.370.8218 and I'll give you some "case study" examples on different high schools using both VT and TriCaster. T.