dissolved-looking object edges

[illusory]

Does anyone know how to create the following effect:

Make an object render so that its outer surface is kind of 'foggy', fuzzy, or not crisp.
I guess another way to explain would be if a dense cloud took the form of an object, it's surface would be more indistinct than the center. The effect I want is not so extreme as that, but more like the object is dissolving at its surface -- this would appear to be the object edges when you look at the object. Am I making sense?

I've tried playing with transparency and edge effects in G2, but am getting nowhere.

Any suggestions?
NJ

[stevecullum]

I guess you tried an incidence angle tranparency then?

mmm.. I think if I was doing this, it might be a case of doing it in post with a blur filter on the edges, if I couldn't get the effect within LW.

[illusory]

yeah, I've been trying the incidence angle gradients -- even copying and inverting them for specular, etc (to make sure there are no specular effects where it is transparent). And still, there is always a very definite edge. Even with every channel off but transparency, I can't get rid of the edge with the gradient.

Post is not going to work in this situation, i don't think.

thanks,
NJ

[stevecullum]

Can you show me the object your trying to get to dissolve?

I'll have a go with a basic cube for now...

[stevecullum]

mmm... without seeing your object its difficult to tell what the best solution is, but you might also try the distance to edge node if your using 9.

[illusory]

Unfortunately the object is logo-like, with a shallow curve to the surface -- will try to send a piece of it.

I've been testing it next to a sphere, pasting the surface to the sphere. Sphere is kind of ideal because it has a continuous curve away from the camera -- so incidence angle stuff shows up well. So I found out that the same surface which looks pretty good on a sphere, doesn't show up so well on an object with a shallower curve away from the camera.

Maybe need to deal with something with actual volume. Distance to edge node sounds ideal (i have 9 but not too experienced with nodes yet). Problem is I really need to be able to use Fprime, and it doesn't seem to work with nodes?

thanks,
NJ

[stevecullum]

Sadly, not until Worley sorts things out :(

But, where there is will, there is a way :)

If you can post up a section, thats great so I can look at the surface style in question. I've got a second idea that uses a duplicate, smooth scaled version, but I need to test it out first. Maybe tomorrow morning - sleep now its 2.20am!:sleeping:

EDIT: Could you also post some reference of what your after?

[illusory]

Thanks, stevecullum, for your help. Here are 3 objects, two spheres and a piece of the letter/symbol-like objects I'm working with. The Object and one of the spheres have the gradients I've been working on, to create more transparency at the edges, and less specular and luminosity at the edges. You can see it works better on the sphere, because the incidence angles are greater and more gradual. The other sphere has a G2 experiment on it -- i don't know if you have that -- but pretty much the same problem when applying that surface to the object. I'm looking for an 'inner glow' type of thing, with dissolving edges. Don't have a reference for it because it's only in my head at the moment. :)

I'm thinking maybe it is node-time for this part of the project, if there are some more volumetric textures available there, and if i can figure it out ;).

For environment i've been using a sky gradient (texture) and background radiosity with Fprime.

Thanks!.
NJ

[connerh]

How about spraying points in one layer (very densly) and then performing a booleon intersect using the logo as the background layer? Once you do this, you can apply HVs to it and get good volume...

[illusory]

That's a very cool technique you describe, but I don't want to go to hypervoxels for this -- rendering time is an issue for what this goes into.
But I'm filing this idea -- looks real interesting...

thanks!
NJ

[stevecullum]

Thanks, stevecullum, for your help. Here are 3 objects, two spheres and a piece of the letter/symbol-like objects I'm working with. The Object and one of the spheres have the gradients I've been working on, to create more transparency at the edges, and less specular and luminosity at the edges. You can see it works better on the sphere, because the incidence angles are greater and more gradual. The other sphere has a G2 experiment on it -- i don't know if you have that -- but pretty much the same problem when applying that surface to the object. I'm looking for an 'inner glow' type of thing, with dissolving edges. Don't have a reference for it because it's only in my head at the moment.

I'm thinking maybe it is node-time for this part of the project, if there are some more volumetric textures available there, and if i can figure it out .

For environment i've been using a sky gradient (texture) and background radiosity with Fprime.

NP - I'll take a looky a bit later :)

[stevecullum]

its quite difficult to visualise something without knowing what it supposed to look like :D

This is what I have so far, but the edging is still visable.

btw - Is this going to be animated?

If you have access to a compositing package, it could be your best friend with this...

[stevecullum]

Here:

[illusory]

Hey that's pretty close! I've been remodelling everything to get a more gradual incidence angle. Combine that with whatever you are doing and i may get somewhere. No matter what, that dang edge is still there in my renders, though, even with the sphere. Your edge is definitely looser than anything I've got, which is great. There's a dark line halfway to the edge though -- if that goes, this would work nicely!

Yes, it will be animated, other wise, yeah, photoshop. And it will be behind some things, so would be getting complicated for my compositing skills with DFX.

what did you do?
thanks!
NJ

[stevecullum]

What I did there is in Photoshop, but can easily be replicated in Fusion or DFX.
I render a turning model and see if I can elimate the dark line. If it becomes a post fix solution, I'll let you know the flow!

[illusory]

Thanks much!

[stevecullum]

Had another go and got rid of the edging, but maybe some of the definition is gone too.

If you like that, I'll post my simple Fusion flow, up for you.

[illusory]

This is very good! I would love to see the Fusion flow -- I can load it into DFX+, right? I don't have the upgrade to Fusion, but I do have the full set.

I appreciate your help on this very much -- I will put this project through DFX+ anyway (pretty much a beginner with it), so if this can help me learn more about using DFX, then all the better!

This is a non-profit project by the way, so many thanks for your contribution to it!

NJ

[stevecullum]

The control is really simple actually :)

First I got rid of all surface atribs other than luminosity which is set at 80%

Then the main control is two guassian blur layers. The first controls the outer glow, and the second how much edge blend there is from the second layer.

The fast noise mask isn't really needed, but adds a subtle fluffy edge, but that was lost in compression :P

EDIT: All I ask for is a mention in the credits - if there are any :D

[illusory]

Is there any chance to send the actual flow? Otherwise i'm likely in the dark, for instance, i don't know what 'controls the outer glow' means (what glow, how does it control it,etc) , howthis manages to apply to just the edges, etc, etc. In other words I'm still pretty clueless what you are doing.

but thanks,
NJ

[stevecullum]

I can do, except I have Fusion 5 and I don't think that is backwards compatible.

Your have DFX4 right?

I think F4 saves in the same format as DFX4, so I could convert it to F4 flow if that would help....should be able to fit that in tomorrow :)

[illusory]

DFX4, yes. That would be great if it saves out a DXF4 file. I'm knocking my head against this texturing problem in LW and getting nowhere so far..

How do you like Fusion 5? worth the upgrade cost?

thanks,
NJ

[stevecullum]

Yeah F5 is great and gives the extra channel support for the new OPEN EXR plugin.

I've attached the flow, so I hope it works ok. Just replace the loader with the files of your own. Blur 1 is your outet edge and blur 2 is the blending blur. Adjust to your liking :)

DFX/Fusion is a great package and while I've always used layer based comping apps in the past, nodes rock! :rock:

[illusory]

thanks very much stevecullum. I look forward to learning from this.

you rock :rock:

[stevecullum]

Hope it helps dude!

:goodluck:

[psychostyrene]

well you could do a number of things, an incidence based edgevalue is the most obvious, id also imagine you could use some kind of volumetric shader like G2 and turn off the surface entirely if you wish, and then of course theres the brute force method, facetted subdivide EVERYTHING and use weightmaps to determine transparency etc......

[illusory]

you could use some kind of volumetric shader like G2 and turn off the surface entirely if you wish......

I'm afraid I don't get this one, I use G2, but not sure what you mean here. If you mean the edge settings, i've been trying that. If you got something else in mind, please tell.

BTW, stevecullum, just FYI, i'm not a dude, i'm the other gender -- not that there's anything wrong with that :)

thanks,
NJ

[psychostyrene]

my sujestion in that regard is simply to make the object 100% transparent, BUT give it internal volumetric opacity.....

[illusory]

That sounds great -- but how? I haven't seen that in G2, and as far as i know, the only way to get a true volumetric texture in LW is through hypervoxels.

'scuse my ignorance...