1997 Ford F150

[JeffRutan]

This is the start of my first attempt at a 3D sub-d project (my 1997 Ford F-150 Lariat).
I have been using Carrara for part time industrial product design for 3 years, but all solid spline modeling.
I am a full time systems/software engineer by day, so I don't get that much time to play with this fun stuff.
I decided to step up to better tools and more realistic renders and bought LW and started learning it this past December 2005.
I was inspired to do a car after watching the Vehicle Modeling video from KURV Studios this past week.
The 2D backdrops I found online are not accurate enough (perspective distortions), so I am having to take measurements and tweak stuff a lot.
http://smcars.net/forums/index.php
I know I need to sharpen all the edges, but I am making all the basic body panels first.
I will post my progress here. Your comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
-Jeff

[Nicolas Jordan]

Looking good so far! :thumbsup:

[Lewis]

It's very nice model so far. I did F-150 few years ago and i can say you are right on target :).

Only thing what would I change is mesh density. You have way too many polygons in some areas (i.e. doors and roof right now). use BandGlue for merging some rows 'coz in straight plane areas you really don't need so many rows of polys and it won't be visible on rendered image but it'll affect your Render time (noticably) and your OpenGL speed in Modeler (when you add more details later it'll go slow).

cheers

[JeffRutan]

Lewis - OK, thanks! I did notice other car models here have fewer polys.
I would like to see yours too after I finish.
I am just doing splines and spline patches so far- trying to keep consistent poly size and fit all around. I will do the BandGlue trick after I get all the spline patches done- along with the extender and band saw to sharpen the edges.

[riki]

Looks good so far, keep us updated.

[JeffRutan]

Just a couple of pieces added today...

[Gettarobox]

what are you using for reference? I keep thinking about modelling my WRX but haven't got around to starting. too many other things pop up. darn clients.

[Nicolas Jordan]

Looks like it's coming along very nicely :thumbsup:

[JeffRutan]

I took about 100 photos of my truck, but found the 2D backdrops here:
http://smcars.net/forums/index.php
Have to register, but it is free, and they have all kinds of stuff there, maybe your car too.

Others at:
http://www.suurland.com/
and
http://blueprints.onnovanbraam.com/

The only problem was that the 2D backdrops still had 3D perspective distortions. I used PhotoShop to touch up and stretch / reproportion the 2D images, but still things did not match or were wrong, so I had to take measurements and improvise. Some cars have better blueprints available than others.
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Tailgate...

[Bog]

That's really looking like it's going in the right direction.

I'm not certain about the "too many patches" comment, as there don't seem to be many genuinely flat areas on the bodywork - there are a lot of fairly subtle curvatures all over the shop.

It'll be interesting to see how the panels seam when you start building the interior faces and the panel-end lips.

[Lewis]

Hi Bog !

I said Too many polygons or better to say too many ROWS of polys in some areas what are not changing too much. Trust me (I've modeled more than 70 cars in LW) when things become more detailed it's BIG differece if you have 35K polys in subds or 20K 'coz modeler is starting to "crawl" when you work with lots of subds :(.

I'm just in middle of modeling subpatched concept car and I have more details modeled/added now and less polygons than this car ;).

It's good but all editing and adding detils it's easier on less polys.

JeffRutan - Don't get me wrong, your progress is excellent and it's looking good but i was just suggestiong to loose some polygons now when it's easier to do it thant later when things become more complicated :). But if you have Quadro FX4000 GFX card, 3.8GHZ CPU maybe you won't experiance such slowdown (when working wiht subDs) as I do on 3GHz and Nvidia 5950Ultra GFX :).

[JeffRutan]

Lewis,
Trust me- I believe you- I know you are right- and I will do dramatic optimization in the second phase of this. Right now I am focusued on getting all the splines reasonably accurate to make the spline patches with correct flow for all the major surfaces.
This image (just the splines) is really all I am focused on so far (I may redo all the patches before I start phase 2)...
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Bed liner...

[Lewis]

It looks accurate. No need for redoing patches. Just use "bandglue" tool to merge tight rows together and you'll optimize it 30-40% at least :).

[JeffRutan]

Lewis,
I still need to do the bumpers and the wiper stop, then I will start optimizing the individual pieces.
The bottom of the bed liner is perfectly flat, but it will have lots of straight line ridges running front to back later. I played a little removing some polys (you can see some reduction in the middle compared to the side wheel well). I would like to get rid of most of the polys (at least the side to side ones), but I still need to have the side edges match around the wheel well and corner posts.
Any advice on this? Should I make a bunch of 3-point polys by welding into center points in from the sides? I try to avoid 3-point polys becasue they usually dont work- I get dark gray triangles in the corners when I make patches and I have to delete them and manually generate each triagle poly in the corners.
Thanks,
-Jeff

[Lewis]

You can have Tirangles if they are on FLAT surface (let's say trunk bed) it won't cause any problems. I can post wireframes of my F-150 so you could see how much dense it is. I have small screengrabs of shade on my WEB but i can post you wireframe when i get home.

http://www.lewis.tomsoft.hr/portfolio/ford_1.php
http://www.lewis.tomsoft.hr/portfolio/ford_2.php

[JeffRutan]

Lewis,
Thanks, for advice! I would rather NOT see your wires yet because I don't want to be influenced into just copying yours. I want to know that I can figure things out on my own with a little general help from forum members and tutorials - but not specifically exactly how to do any given step.
Thanks,
-Jeff

[Lewis]

hehe good choice Jeff :). Looking forward to see how you plan to optimize parts.

[JeffRutan]

Decided to detail the bed liner this weekend...

[Bog]

Wow. Not short on RAM then!

If you're keeping the same detail density throughout the model, that's going to be quite the asset when you're done.

[JeffRutan]

I am doing this all so far on a 1.67GHz G4 17" PowerBook with 2GB RAM and 128MB ATI Mobility Radeon 9700. So far not bad performance.
I have a Dual 2.5GHz G5 Power Mac with 4GB RAM and 256MB nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra if I need more power later. I also have a 3.2GHz P4 WinXP Pro with 2GB RAM and 128MB ATI Radeon 9800 in case the Macs have any trouble.

This is my first Sub-D model, and only my second LW project, so I don't know how things will get later on with rendering and such.

-Jeff

[Bog]

In my experience, Macs deal with very high RAM loadings better than PCs do, but most of my high memory usage work has been using lots of very-high-res image maps - your mileage may vary. That's a very clean mesh for a first-timer - holding those curves through three dimensions can be tricky going.

[Lewis]

Looking excellent :). I like that you give so much attention to details. BUT for next time if you won't have any close zooms to trunk bed you could just STICK in ribs to flat polygon (as separate part) at bottom instead of welding it complelly on floor :). That's like "cheating" but it'll make your life much easier and it won't be any visible difference on renders if you aren't doing extreme close up shots of THAT area ;).

[JeffRutan]

Bed liner almost complete...

[Lewis]

Almost there ;)

BTW turn OFF "Spline Guides" in views so that you have cleaner screen grabs without those tiny blue lines :).

[JeffRutan]

Thanks for the tips Lewis and please keep them coming!
I am very interested in ways to speed up the productivity as I progress.
Right now I am really getting into learning how to making the subtle curves and edges do exactly what I want. This will be very important for the type of work I usually do (product design) where the clients and manufacturers need to see all the details accurately with lots of close ups and exploded views.
I realize this is overkill for this truck, but I am more interested in the learning experience than the final product. Lewis, your tips will be remembered in projects where I am more focused on efficiency.
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Thanks again Lewis! I tried to turn those off before, but I guess I didn't have the right viewport selected. The display options seem to do weird stuff when you only have one view displayed. Apparently you have to make display option adjustments only in quad view?
-Jeff

[mcaa666]

hey great modeling sofar man keep it up.
nice to see you doing the same car Lewis did a while ago.
BTW great to see you again lewis.
not to hijack this thread(sorry) but anything new from you Lewis?

Keep up the good work.
Hope to see more cars on this forum again.

Cheers

[JeffRutan]

Rear bumper...
I took Lewis' advice this time and made the treads on the bumper as seperate objects instead of trying to extrude them out of the surface. Did save a lot of time trying to get all the quad/tri polys to match and doesn't look too bad.
Thanks!
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Rear bumper details nearly complete...
Had a real hard time trying to get the form right on the trailer hitch part. Still not happy with that part, but I will come back to it later.

[Lewis]

Very nice. BTW how's polycount coming, how much in total you have now :)?

[JeffRutan]

I still have way too many basic polys in the body panels that I have not yet started to optimize and detail. However, I now have 9827 polys total, 1070 in the rear bumper, and 5867 in the bed liner (mostly the corrugations).
I will probably do the front bumper next.
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Front bumper...

[JeffRutan]

Mesh density reduced on body panels...
Better Lewis?
Next step is to fine tune edges.

[Lewis]

YES much better but now you'll need to ADD couple of rows on doors to be able to have enough density for door nabs ;).

[JeffRutan]

Some grill details...
Thanks for the help Lewis! I get the extender now.
Making this grill mesh work with sub-d was really time consuming and tedious.

Question: What do you do in the end to hide stuff on the inside that can be seen through wide seams and grill, etc.? I don't want to model all the insides. Is there a standard way to fake the inside/interior and underneath?

Thanks,
-Jeff

[Lewis]

Hi !

Heheh on extender thing ;).

As far your other question answer is to go behing logic of how real cars are constructed. Extend some edges to make soem thicknes so it won't be visible on renders, or model black polygons on areas wher eyou would see gaps and move them few milimeters to inside so that they block any light leaks. Underside of car must be modeled if you want firm shadows under car 'coz other way shadow will be bright and not belivable when you render it. You don't need to model parts on underside but main shape needs to be made preferably black and connected with wheel wells - just like on real car. AFAIR I showed that on my Cobra tutorial so check that area aslo.

[JeffRutan]

The only vehicle video I have seen is the Chevrolet SSR from KURV.com - the one that inspired me to try this project. Actually, I have only seen volume I, will watch volume II after I finish the body and as much as was done in volume I.
Where is your Cobra tutorial Lewis?

[JeffRutan]

Front fender / wheel well and F-150 logo, finished/unfinished parts...

[Lewis]

Hi Jeff !

My tutorial is on LWG and it's written long time before Geralds video (which is great tutorial btw ;)). Here is direct link to new version which is redesigned (slightly) after LWG site was recovered from Hack attack. Tutorial is made in 2001 but i still answer to questions posted on tutorial tread :).

http://www.lwg3d.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14554&highlight=cobra+99

cheers

[JeffRutan]

Tailgate details...
Lewis - looks like a great tutorial but very long to read all that. Can you give me specific section numbers that would be of most help to me?
Thanks,
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Finished bed sides with back wheel wells...
Had to make some adjustments to the bed liner too.
Very slow but sure progress on my first sub-d project. I think I am about half done modeling now with about 17000 polys (over 5500 of those in the bed liner) in just under one month.
Doing a significant project is sure the way to learn!
Thanks Lewis for all your help!
-Jeff

[Lewis]

Hi Jeff !

You are doing just fine :). Trust me but i don't remeber on what page is what 'coz that "new" version was put up after recovery so all pages are different and i have PDF version (it was sold on CD-R due many requests of users directlly by LWG) so page numbers from PDF wouldn't fit ones in tutorial :).

If you stuck somewhere specificaly i'll try to find some time to answer here ;).

[Bog]

Doing a significant project is sure the way to learn!

The only way, really. Nothing like a Trial By Fire to get you up to speed...

[JeffRutan]

Gas cap cover/hole was hard to get right without disrupting the smooth flow of the bed side, but this actually works even though the wires look funky.
The cap cover also follows the curvature of the side panel.

[JeffRutan]

Cab back and roof plus many bed refinements so no more invisible/visible areas...

[JeffRutan]

Sliding rear window & frame (bed light still to do along with head lights and tail lights - I need to learn some tricks to do those later)...

[JeffRutan]

Side doors (front and back) with windows, frames, side molding and handles...
Still have a problem with the flow on the front doors where I made the hole for the handle - caused the curve of the door panel to deform slightly. I will fix that next, then on to the windshield, wipers, and side view mirrors.
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Finished wiper stop- another tedious piece. Also fixed door handle flow, sealed the bottom and engine compartment, and generally refined, optimized, and I redid hundreds of nasty tris. I still have a few hundred tris, but they are mostly very small, non-adjacent and not affecting the most visible areas. Just over to 20000 polys now. Rotating and moving the mesh with everything on and all sub-d, is getting fairly jerky (1.67 GHz PowerBook G4 17" w/2GB) but still manageable. Performance is great with everything on and sub-d all off, or with just a few major layers selected and in sub-d.

Windshield, wipers, sprayers, side view mirrors, tires, wheels, headlights, taillights, bed light, and antenna yet to do to finish the exterior!

I still have not decided if I will do the interior or not- maybe just black windows. I also have a short list of optional accessory details that I might add outside too, but I may get tired of this project before all that gets done. I still need to learn about surfaces and lighting and rendering too!

-Jeff

[Lewis]

Hi !

It's looking very very good and you've made fine progress from last update :). IF you are going to render it and aim to realism then i'd strongly suggest you to do interior. Atleast low details interior but just to be able to make semitransparent windows (tinted but not 100% black) and that will give you much more realism to renders than just tinted windows :).

[JeffRutan]

Well, Lewis, with your encouragement, I may just do that! I really do appreciate your taking your time to provide professional input and I would gladly accept even minor detail critiques! The Internet is so great when we can have friendly relationships with like-minded folks half way around the world! I don't get a lot of feedback here, but I can't beat the quality from Croatia!
Thanks!
-Jeff
P.S.: I see some boasting that their models are tri-free... Lewis, do your models have any tris when you are done? What is your typical poly count on completion for a well-detailed vehicle?

[Bog]

Another vote here for at least *some* kind of interior, even if it's just the vague shapes of seats and a lump for a driver. The exterior's come along so beautifully, it'd be a crying shame to just have mirrored or blank windows.

(Says he who has a minor conniption every time he's faced with modelling enclosed environments)

[JeffRutan]

Peer pressure! OK, OK, seriously considering and thinking about how to do a rough interior.
I know this is not much of an update, but it took me a long time to get this windshield right (mostly the frame tweaking to seam with the surrounding components and the non-distorted smooth curvature). I really like the way it is starting to look with it finally almost all enclosed.
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Last of this past weekend updates- windshield wipers!

[Lewis]

Hi Jeff !

About Triangles free models that's not needed in Car modeling. If model is going to be deformed (liek arms/legs of human or so) then Quads only is more important that on Flat Surface of CAR. It can cause some rendering glitches if is on "wrong" place (let's say if is on curved part then it'll make problems but if is on flat surface 99% cahance is that all will look good and you'll get to level when you recognize in modeling process which one could cause glitches and which wont before you render it :)).

Things where triangles can casue unwanted effect on render is where car skyline is reflecting some backgorund and you have it broken slightly (pulled down/up) by triangle who is pulling down some point (let's say around door knob or similar). But these things BIG percentage of (I'd say 80-90%) of 3D guys won't notice and 99% of "normal" people (ones who don't do 3D CGI) won't notice without side by side comparison (same part with Quads onyl or Mix). If you are worried by Triangles they always can be reshaped and cut to make all Quads but it's tedious process and often no difference other than higher polycount :). If you definatelly want it to be 100% Quads then Hit "shift+d" and use Metaform to "freeze" at level 2 and get all Quads a 4x times more polygons :).

There is no general polycount how much I get on car model 'coz there is lot of different shapes and requests for details. If you model tire threads in SubDs (I've don that few times and it's real PITA) then you can have about 100K SubDs just for all 4 tires/rims :) while rest of car would maybe have 25k polys :). I've done Car headlights/tail lights for Print work which had 25000-100 000 SubDs JUST for headlights or tail lights ;). In Broadcast level of details there are some polygon limits due fact of render resolution (PAL/NTSC) but in PRINT resoulution model (which will be rendered in 3000-4000 pixels) only sky is limit ;).

I wish i could show some of those projects but NDAs are very strict :(.

cheers

[JeffRutan]

Thanks Lewis!

I will not worry too much about the tris- at least until I start learning the rendering. I can tell in the textured screen view when a tri deforms a surface too much, but I expect to find many more problem surfaces in the renders.

I know how it is with real work, some of my best stuff I can't show because of NDA, but usually I can show stuff after its initial production press release. I am taking time off to learn now, so I get to post everything as I go, but that will end when I get back to real work. It really is fun and motivating to post here!

Lewis, I know your work is great just from some of the samples on your website! I have been paying a lot of attention to headlight and taillight details as I drive around, and I can imagine all that prism details can get really tedious! I am leaving the headlights/taillights until later so I can learn more and have more time to decide what level of detail to use for them.

-Jeff

[Lewis]

Hehe Yes headlight/taillight some time can take up to 15 hours of work just to do them "right" liek on real car wiht all those tiny details ;).

BTW about NDAs - I have few of them which NEVER Expires :(.

[JeffRutan]

Lewis,
You obviously have much higher end clients. My product design jobs have all been for third-party Mac accessory products plus a set of speakers for Fishman Transducers, Inc. I assist with the design process with the clients and manufactures all the way to production as well. I am hoping that engineering service combined with 3D industrial design / visualization will generate a niche where I can succeed at turning my part time passion into full time freelance work. Lots of competition out there, but it is my dream!
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Side view mirrors, antenna and wiper fluid sprayers done.
Tires, wheels and lights to go on exterior. Rough interior to follow.
Considering optional detail items:
Trailer hitch / hookups?
Tie-down loops?
Exhaust pipe?
Rear springs?

[JeffRutan]

Man Lewis you were right about the tires- thanks for the warning or I may have freaked! This is a fairly simple tread with 5646 polys per tire. For some reason it takes much longer to sub-d these than the whole rest of the truck! I started with a more complex tread, but that brought my system to its knees, so I simplified it here.

[Bog]

After all the work you've put in, I recon you need to find yourself source materials for a few cylinders approximately 15 centimetres tall with a double-chamfered end, and a ring pull, containing a dozen fluid ounces of malt, hops, barley and a volatile clear liquid known as ethanol. You've earned it!

I'm really looking forward to seeing some renders of this. Have you given any thought to your end scene? I know you're more approaching this from an engineering visualisation perspective than a VFX angle, whereas in my game it's good practice to "model for the shot" - as you can tell my the fact that my meshes look crappy where they don't face the camera ;)

[JeffRutan]

Wheels!
These were fairly quick and fun.
Bog, Thanks! - I did this project to learn LightWave and how to model using sub-d. I just did the bare minimum of rendering in Carrara, so I will have lots to learn rendering here. I have not given that phase much thought yet. I still have the lights/lenses and interior to model! I will be fishing for tips on surfacing and rendering big time in a few weeks!
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Well, I decided to try some rendering even though I still haven't modeled the headlights/taillights/bed light. I was hoping to get that realistic clay model look that I have seen several people do with close to default settings. I am not happy with my results... These look much more flat/cartoonish than I expected to get. Obviously I have a lot to learn about Layout setups, lighting, etc. I really need some advice!

Mine looks more like an Adobe Illustrator drawing. I want something more like this:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=25269&d=1134556573

I used anti-aliasing level 5, a large area light at 65% intensity behind and just to the left of the camera aimed at the center of the truck, and the default surface on everything with smoothing at 30 degrees. In global illumination I enabled Volumetric Lights, Shadow Maps, and Shading Noise Reduction. The ambient Intensity is at the default 5%.
What should I do?
Thanks,
-Jeff

[Bog]

Jeff,

Rendering is a whole 'nother suite of technologies that are pretty disparate from modelling. Eventually, after many bloody years of learning, you can start to get holistic about the whole process.... couple of things to bear in mind.

Area Lights: Their intensities "blow out" massively compared to the other light types - they're basically area arrays of point sources - this is how their soft shadows are calculated. Also, this means that spread of tight shadowing at source to spread shadowing at a distance is a function both of the size of the Area Light, and it's distance from the lit object. Looks like you've got your light kinda close - back it off a ways.

Secondly, that kind of render is commonly either a Radiosity Render or an Ambient Occlusion render. This yields the subtlety of shadowing and light-bleed across surfaces, at the expense of mammoth render times - however, the results are truly yummy. You'll need Shadow Tracing enabled in your Render Options panel, and also switch on Radiosity in the Ambient Lighting subpanel of your Lighting Properties. Monte Carlo mode is slower, it's actually calculating energy propagation and absorbtion by surfaces - "Backdrop Radiosity" is using either Gradient Backdrop (Compositing Panel) or an environment map (Image World or similar in the Compositing Panel)

Have a play with the settings for a while, and if you get brainstrain we can triple the length of this thread :D

*edit* You can lose Volumetric Lights - that's shafts of visible prominence cast by light-souces, like spotlights in a smoky club, or God Rays (aka crepuscular rays) or that sort of thing.

[Lewis]

Hi Jeff !

It looks good (model) and YES you need to work more on renders. Just let me know is THIS (I'm attaching image from one of my older WIPs) test render similar to want you want to get? IF YES then it's pretty easy. Setup SINGLE point light (just for shadow direction). Turn down ambient light to 0. Use ray trace shadows (rest is not needed for clay look). Go to background properties and setup background image to Grey<-->White gradient (or other color you want) and turn on BACKGROUND Radiosity. Let it cook for few minutes and it's there (shouldn't take more than 5 minutes on 3GHz and 1024*768 res).

P.S. You will "waste" too much of time if you constantly render while you model, i prefer to finish modeling and surfacing in modeler and then tweak surfaces and render setup in layout after that ;).

cheers

[JeffRutan]

Thanks for the tips Bog! I did turn on Radiosity once but it took forever and didn't look great with the other setting I had. I need some good basic training on this so I don't waste so much time on trial and error.

Lewis, Yes I agree about modeling first... I had planned to finish all the modeling first. However, I may have to start some real work next week, so just today I wanted to see if I could do anything at all in Layout (first time there for the Ford). I guess I will have to go back to Carrara for rendering for my real work until I get Layout figured out better.
Anyway, I will try your setup suggestion. Yes your shots are exactly like what I wanted to do. I really appreciate the details in those tires!

Thanks,
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Well, this is a little better using settings Lewis suggested, but it still lacks that character that makes you think you are looking at a photo of a clay model like I see in other work like the one I referenced above. I think the shadows are too sharp with this single point light, and it still just looks like an illustration.
Any more tips? I really have no clue what other parameters I should be tweaking.
Thanks,
-Jeff

[Bog]

What you want to do is turn all lights and ambient light off and make your backdrop white. Turn on BG only radiosity and render.

Definately the quickest way to get that "untreated clay" look, yeah. Good shout.

[Lewis]

Yes you can turn all lights off but then you might need to boost radiosity to over 100% and you'll have weak shadows under car (that's why i suggested to leave point light). I had all lights off but i don't have flat plane under car to cast shadow on it :).

[JeffRutan]

Bryphi77,
Talk about less is more! This is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! Thank you so much!
I don't really understand this (how does it know where to put the beautiful soft shadows?), so I need to study the subject much more, but thanks for getting me over that hump! It was really bumming me out that I have spent all this time on the model and couldn't make even a half way decent basic clay render. I spent a lot of money on LightWave (product and training materials) to step up my production quality and I still had better results in Carrara.
Much more to learn, but I can go back to finishing the model now WITHOUT feeling like I will never be great at this stuff and I should have stuck with Carrara.
I still might bump up the radiosity as Lewis suggests next time to brighten it up, but for now these look fine to me and show a couple of areas I need to improve in the model.
Thanks again! And to Lewis and Bog too!
-Jeff

EDIT: Hey! What happened to Bryphi77's excellent advice post above here??? His input was a major educational breakthrough for me, and now it is gone?

[JeffRutan]

I tried rendering at 3000x2250 with the 8x24 and 110% radiosity on my Power Mac, and it used 4 threads (only 2 processors?), but it also broke the render into 9 segments and did the anti-aliasing on each segment individually. That produced a faint but visible horizontal line between each of the 9 segments in the render. Very bad for print! Is there a way to fix that or force it not to segment or force it to anti-alias after it has all the segments done? If not, this looks like a huge problem for print artists?
Does it do the same thing on a PC?
Thanks,
-Jeff

[Bog]

Gahoyyaahhh! Jeez, Jeff! *laughs*

Anyway, the setting you want is the Segment Memory button in your camera properties. If you really feel the need to render the planet in one pass, then the rough math is horizontal res times vertical res times 24 bits == RAM required for a one-pass render in bytes. That may be the Old Formula, but it's always worked for me

[JeffRutan]

Thanks Bog! (and bryphi77 too!) As it turned out, the lines vanished when I printed it at 7.5 x 10 inches on 8.5 x 11 inch Epson Premium Photo Paper with maxed output quality printer settings from PhotoShop. I wanted exactly 300 DPI, and I am VERY pleased with the printed results. You can see all the details including the edges of the lettering on the F-150 logo!
Of course this was just a test for future output when I get further along on the project.
I often do this size render for print as final deliverables for my product design work. I never had a problem with it in Carrara, other than taking hours to complete. The quality from LightWave is at least an order of magnitude better than anything I ever got out of Carrara!
-Jeff

No reflection in this model yet, and I did not have that render option turned on yet either. I will use it after surfacing, and I also want to try an HDRI backdrop.

[Bog]

Heehee! My expletion was just that when you decide to go for a render, y'don't mess about do you? :) My record for print-size is A1 at 300dpi. It fair made my heart catch in my throat with the local Kinko's put the test print in front of me. Then again, show me an artist who isn't an emotion junkie, eh? ;)

It's strange - active display surfaces can be a lot less forgiving than passive reflective surfaces, and yet there's a whole world of learning between the glowing pixel, and the colour responses of paper media.

That's one of the things I love about this gig - there's always something more to learn.

[JeffRutan]

Taillights with back reflectors, inner prisms, and lenses...
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Bed light with reflectors, inner prisms, screws, and lenses...
Also another view of nearly complete exterior wires.
-Jeff

[Bog]

You've raised the bar for me, Jeff. Thank you.

[JeffRutan]

Bog,
I don't know if you mean your thanks as nice or exasperated, but I will take it nice- thanks! ;-)
Actually both you and Lewis have challenged and inspired me to do more detail than I originally had in mind. Hopefully I can learn enough surfacing and rendering tricks to make these details pay off!
I am collecting a list of minor details that I need to go back and fix, but only the headlights left to go on the exterior!
-Jeff

[Lewis]

Detail Bar for modeling, NEVER can be AT END 'coz you always can find soemething more to do ;). So Bog you always can RAISE it for Jeff ;).

[Bog]

*grins*

Between the three of us we'll be working at molecule level next time! ;)

Jeff, it was congratulations and thanks both. Not an iota of negativity in there. One things I find eternally wonderful about this job is that there's always a horizon, and always a frontier. Nice one, man.

[Captain Obvious]

This is coming a long really nicely, Jeff! :thumbsup: The sheer amount of detail is really impressive!

[Medyo Bastos]

I pity myself compared to your work. I do want to model someday a car. but right now, all I can do is create stairs, tables, pipes and offshore oil rigs. MEaning straights and planes and primitives. I am intimidated by metanurbs but I will get the hang of it I know, when I get the time to play with them. Trust me, I am drooling over your progress, Jeff Rutan dude.

[JeffRutan]

Medyo Bastos, Thanks for the compliments! However, I am certainly not one of the best here at this stuff. This is my very first subdivision surface (sub-d) project, and only my second project in LightWave. My first was all straight polygons (the General caliper shown in the attachments here). Before LightWave my only experience was with solid geometry spline modeling in Carrara. I bought LightWave and some training videos and some private lessons to get started this past December. The concept of working with individual polygons was totally new to me. I spent a lot of time (and still do) studying the wires in this and other Work In Progress (WIP) galleries and noticed that most people were using these sub-d surfaces. Then I just started this project to learn how to do it. I think doing a significant project is the only way to really learn. Just take some time and look closely at the wires in all the posts in this forum. If you see something you don't understand or can't figure out how they did it, ask for them to show you the wires before and after sub-d. Folks here are really friendly and helpful! Then just find a project that interests you enough to stick with it for a while and dive right in! Post your progress here and don't be afraid to ask for help. You will be amazed at how many people are willing to give you really useful advice - even if you start out with next to nothing!
Welcome to the forum!
-Jeff

P.S.: What country are you from? Just posting your street address in your profile doesn't help much ;-)

[JeffRutan]

Headlights with reflectors, inner prisms, and lenses...
Also another view of nearly complete exterior (just a few minor tweaks remain before starting the interior).
-Jeff

[Gorky]

super detailed work
keep it up

[JeffRutan]

Updated the clay renders to clearly identify my problem areas before I move on to the interior...
-Jeff

[Bog]

Tight work, Jeff. I know folk who've been using LW for years without a hope of making that kinda mesh.

Slianté!

[Captain Obvious]

This is turning out more and more impressive!

[JeffRutan]

Thanks for the complements and encouragement from Gorky, Bryphi77, Bog and Captain Obvious! This really helps me keep motivated to finish!
However, I will probably not have any updates for a few days since I have a lot of my regular work to complete and also my grandfather's big 90th birthday party is this weekend!
I did find images of the first two simple objects I did to start learning LightWave this past December, so I will post them here so this thread now has a complete record of all the objects I have done in LightWave so far.
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Bog,
Speaking of raising the bar, take a look at this:
http://www.cg-cars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1174
There really is no end to the detail one can model given the time, talent, skill and motivation!
-Jeff

[Rich]

Bog,
Speaking of raising the bar, take a look at this:
http://www.cg-cars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1174
There really is no end to the detail one can model given the time, talent, skill and motivation!
-Jeff

Wow that guy is doing some insane detailing on that engine.

Your truck is looking great Jeff! I'm looking forward to seeing this baby finished. :D

[Bog]

Parties are always good excuses for downing tools for a bit :)

That car model is quite astonishing. I was doing some work for A Sizable Car Manufacturer, and the CAD models that they had of engine blocks weren't that much more detailed looking. Stunning.

[JeffRutan]

I finally got some time to finish tweaking all the little problem areas on the exterior and put a little more detail into the tire treads. I am still not happy with the taillight, but I decided to move along since it takes so long to render and it looks fine in the modeler views. Maybe it will look better after texturing or I may figure out how to fix it later. This weekend I intend to start the interior.

I just noticed I messed up the front grill! Going to have to go back and fix that too! I put in an extra loop to fix one thing and it broke something else! It looked fine in modeler! Grief this is time consuming back and forth with rendering!

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

I only have one security dongle. Is there some way to render on a second machine without uisng a dongle while I am modeling on another machine?
Thanks,
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

OK, fixed the grill, now on to the interior!
-Jeff

Note: Images for this post not recovered, but they are repeated in my next post with photo overlays.

[Seraph77]

hi,

nice model and excelent sepia image. But I found couple differences to real car. Below you will find my suggestions but I'm not an expert so don't worry :).

cheers

Seraph

[JeffRutan]

Seraph77: Thanks for your precision input on my project, and welcome to this forum! I very much appreciate your attention to detail and the time you took to present this to me. I have studied your suggestions and I took a closer look at my own truck. I took some pictures of my truck from a point of view very similar to my renderings. I think your observations on the back door, side and the side view mirror are just a function of the viewing angle. However, your observations around the front grill and headlights are certainly accurate. I will have to make some adjustments there. I also noticed that the antenna angles back about 10 degrees (my model has it straight up), so I will have to change that too.
Right now I am working on the interior, but I will go back before I am done and fix those items.
Thanks!
-Jeff

[Seraph77]

hehe, true, the line I have seen seemed to be trick of light. Great model though. Is it king of payed freelance work or just for fun? I have no patience to read whole thread ;)

cheers

Seraph

[red_eyes23]

You are doing a good job with this vehicle Jeff.

[zapper1998]

Totally Aweome Work..
You can do a Network Render using Screamernet, for individual frames, Create scene, render it out, using the network..

[JeffRutan]

Thanks red_eyes23 and zapper1998!
I will have to look up how to use Screamernet. What do I have to have running on the other machine? Do I have to do some configuration on both machines first?

Seraph77: This is my first sub-d project and only my second LightWave project. I am doing this truck as a learning experience (started end of February and work on it a few hours each week). I have used Carrara for the past 3 years doing part-time product design work using only solid spline modeling. I am a full time systems/software engineer by day. I bought LightWave this past December to step up to more professional tools and to learn polygon and sub-d modeling. I will go back to freelance paying projects after I finish a few more learning projects (or sooner if an unsolicited project comes in).

The interior is going slow as I learn how to connect and shape these things right. Here is a small update...

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Inside of back doors...

[Seraph77]

for learning model it looks extremely well, I did something about 30 cars already, and tons of furniture, even plants with subdivision - I can't imagine living without it :) I admire your determination. And I want to see more your models.

cheers

Seraph

[JeffRutan]

Seraph77: I would like to see lots more of your work too! Do you have a website? 30 cars wow! At my current rate that would take me 5 years! Hopefully my speed will improve greatly as I get more experience with this. I am still doing lots of trial and error but doing much better than when I first started this project.

All of my work in LightWave so far is included in this thread (a security remote control for my wife's car and an iPod Shuffle were my first week of learning, and a General caliper was my first multi-day project- all in straight polygons). After I finish this truck (my first sub-d), I am planning to do a series of my dad's airplanes all in sub-d.

In Carrara I did lots of Apple products and guesses at future Apple products for a website called SpyMac.com, but all that old content is all missing now (though some of it is still at TheAppleCollection.com). From my posts for fun at SpyMac, I attracted the attention of a third-party Apple accessory vendor who paid me part time to produce product design visualizations and to work with Taiwanese manufactures to develop the products (about a dozen went to market, some are still pending). I also did some house remodeling plans, some 3D floor plans and I roughed all of the furniture in my house.

Most of the best commercial work I have done I can't show, but I will include a few samples here. I plan to make a website with a gallery to market my freelance business later this year, but nothing up yet.

Included here:
1. Some of my product designs that were produced.
2. My guess 1 year ahead of the Mac Mini announcement.
3. My guess 1 month ahead of the Power Mac G5 announcement.
4. My first Carrara project (2003)- a future Modular Power Mac.
5. Interior door panels on my F-150.

-Jeff

[Seraph77]

hi, I can see some good models here. Shame sometimes we cannot show our best work. I have many visualizations of interiors and 3d-real time presentations (Quest engine) and I cannot show them to the world.

You're surprised with the count of my cars, but I have to tell you I'm seriously working with lightwave for 10 years already, and I started my 3d adventure 14 years ago (Amiga600 + accelerator motorola 030/25MHz + 6MB RAM; Real 3D software, next Imagine3d and then LW 4.0), I've started playing with cars when I've bought LW 7.0, I think it was in 2003, but I'm not sure. Some o my models you can find here (http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/Index.cfm?INTFILETYPE_3=0&INTFILETYPE_1=0&BLSHOWCATEGORYSELECT=false&INTRATINGCOUNT=0&ISTSEARCHKEY=3dbarrel&INTFILETYPE_2=0&INTCATEGORY=-1&INTBUNDLEID=&ISTINCAUTHOR=&ISTEXCAUTHOR=&FUSEACTION=ProcessSearch&FLTRATING=0&DATEBEFOREPUB=&INTMEDIATYPE=-1&STGBOOLEAN=L&INTMAXPRICE=&STGTYPE=&DATEAFTERPUB=&BLSEARCHGAMEREADYONLY=FALSE&INTSTARTROW=1&ISTEXCKEY=&INTMINPRICE=&stgAD=15J244404040441&stgOrderColumn=0&intSortOrder=0&blViewType=1&blViewTypeTip=y&intMaxResults=200). I have my own website too, but it's out of date, I have determination to make the new one this month. It supposed to be multilanguage, my current site is only in polish, so you may find hard to understand something: www.seraph.prv.pl. We also have out team site, still under construction: www.3dbarrel.com

Now I'm working on Citroen C4, sill too much to do... so I'd better get back to work.

btw - that interior of F-150 looks very good - sometimes I find hard to fit the interior to existing exterior, I prefer making whole model at once.

cheers

Seraph

[JeffRutan]

Seraph77,
Great collection! Do you make a living selling these spec pieces (models built for no particular client), or do you do other work too? I have been thinking of trying to sell some stuff at TurboSquid.com, but I wonder how many people really buy stuff there or from other similar sites? Probably not enough to make a good living just from that even if you are very prolific?
I notice your models are marked for several different 3D packages. Do you have to build/tweak for each one, or can you just output those formats from LightWave?
Thanks,
-Jeff

[Seraph77]

Hi,

well, there are people who make models only for sale, but I think I couldn't survive this way. I'm an architect, so mainly I work in architectural studio - we're making desing projects of houses, churches, office buildings etc. Privately I'm taking visualization jobs and, as you know, I'm freelance modeler too. Am I working too much? Anyway if you want to sell something at TS you must be patient - hard to sell something in first month from publishing asset. And hard to make huge money there. It's rather nice addition.

You can export from lw to .obj .3ds and .fbx (plugin needed) formats, but I'm using DeepExploration software - It's much better and faster method. Sometimes textures need to be done once again. If you have more questions about TS or other shops - just send me PM and we can talk via e-mail.

cheers

Seraph

[zapper1998]

wow awesome looking Quad G5, cool

I would like one please. just kidding, awesome looking model...

[JeffRutan]

Well, I finally got back to this and finished the rough dash. I was having trouble getting the feel for this piece from my reference photos (hard to get good shots in the close enclosed space). So, I just took my laptop out and sat in the driver seat last night until I got a reasonable dashboard shape formed. I don't plan to do a lot more detail on this piece since it will barely be seen through the windows, but I wanted the basic shape to be fairly accurate. Sitting in the truck while modeling seems really weird, but it was efficient, so I may do the same for some other interior details. My truck is in a private enclosed garage, so I don't have to worry about the neighbors wondering about my mental state- at least not over this particular behavior! ;-)
-Jeff

[Bog]

*snort*

I've been dealing with one of the biggest ad agencies in London the last few days (that's not a brag, just to scale things), and their major designers were - every few hours - edging away from me and looking at me like a Pod Person for coming out with terms like "Dynamic range", "Pixels per polygon" and "backscattered radiosity".

My point is that it's not your neighbours you need to worry about, it's the people who're paying for your time, and you scare them with perfectly normal industry terms!

Thanks for sharing those other models, Jeff - that's very (I'd say ****, but the forum ****s it out (oh it just did)) work. I like the Quad G5, that looks like proper "Warning! Danger Geek!" kit!

Perfect for scaring my clients with - they find the hot spot on the desk when I move my laptop bad enough! ;)

[Seraph77]

Hi, the dash look nice, however I couldnt work in car... Maybe that is because of my hate for laptop computers. Weird keyboard, too small screen, too slow (my laptop which was buyed to get rid of my wife from my pc is much slower). Now I think I have made horrible mistake buying it - when I come back from work she is glued to the laptop... and where is the dinner? :)

Jeff - Im about to send you that tail light now.

cheers

Seraph

[Bog]

My laptop'll take a dual 1.8GHz Mac G5 in a dead heat, thank you very much! Though it does have a trio of 60mm fans on the underside, and makes a jim-dandy paint-stripper if I play it's exhausts vents up and down a doorjamb.... ;)

[JeffRutan]

Bog, You always make me smile and occasionally LOL! Thanks! ;-)

Seraph77, Thanks so much for sharing your taillight! I will study that carefully before finishing this project.

You got the laptop to get your wife off of your desktop, but mine is the opposite. My wife does video editing and SLR photography, so she often kicks me off the dual 2.5GHz G5 and 30" display! My 17" PowerBook does just fine and I can work wherever it is comfortable or convenient. However, I do plan to get another top-of-the-line desktop Intel Power Mac / Mac Pro within a year so we will not have to share. She also has her own PC and 17" PowerBook. The only machine we share now is the Power Mac. I have my own PC too, but I prefer to work on the Mac since I work on a PC all day for my regular work.

Here is a small update, the back seat.

-Jeff

[Seraph77]

nice one, I mean back seat. About computers - well, I'm glad my wife is a doctor, so she mostly uses her notebook for on-line shopping, chats with friends and learning to her medical exams :D. I'm thinking of buying some Mac, I'm sick of these PC's. I have started with Amiga, very similar to Mac computers.

cheers

[JeffRutan]

So your wife is a doctor and she goes to school and she does the shopping and she uses a computer and you still expect her to cook dinner for you? ;-)

My wife and I both need both Macs and PCs for different things. I like to use the Mac whenever I can. The newest Macs will run Windows too full speed, so may make the ultimate travel laptop for me next time. On the desktop I like to have separate machines for each.

Here is an update of the front seats...

-Jeff

[Seraph77]

those seats are looking very good, can't wait to see dashboard ;)

about my wife, yes I do expect especially when I'm hungry like a wolf... and she is learning at home, she finished her studies, but now she has exams. Our doctors have to learn whole life... I'm glad I'm only architect - I have one exam at the end of this year and that's all.

cheers

Seraph

[riki]

Heaps of work, but it's coming together nicely.

[JML]

it looks amazing :thumbsup:

question,

in lightwave, there is this cool feature called "bump map"
I thought I let you know when I saw you modelling the bed liner, lights and
other tiny details in subpatch. :D

are you going to model the engine and all the mechanical parts under the car too ?

[JeffRutan]

JML, I am just learning LightWave since December of last year. This is my first sub-d and only my second project (actually all of my LightWave work is shown somewhere in this thread). I did only solid spline modeling in Carrara for 3 years before this. I know about the concept of bump map but I have not used it in LightWave yet. I did not know you could use it for significant features other than subtle texturing of surfaces. I did see someone use it for tire treads, but I really need to learn more about the limits of that technique. Thanks for the tip! Do you know any good tutorials that show how to use bump maps for making structure details in hard body models? I really want to learn more efficient ways to do things so I can become faster and more productive!
Thanks,
-Jeff

P.S.: I will not do the engine or any details underneath (like the drive train, etc.). I originally did not plan to do the interior, but folks here encouraged me to do it to have something to see through the windows. I am only doing a rough interior, no fine details (my goal is to finish this project this month). However, Seraph77 may get me to do a little more detail in the dash. His cars look really nice and they have just the right amount of detail inside.

[JML]

if you are looking for tutorials, this site is pretty good :
http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials%20/Main_Menu.htm

I was just joking about the bump map, your stuff looks great.
I'm amazed that this is your first sub-d model.. really well-done
it makes me want to model a vehicule too.

[JeffRutan]

Well, everyone who posts to this WIP gallery inspires me to do more and better work so I am glad I inspire some to do stuff too! I learn so much from looking at the wires and reading constructive critiques of others as well as of my own. Every suggestion makes me think and every new technique that I observe makes me want to try something more. This forum is a great way to learn and keep upping the quality of everyone's work! I was determined with this project to make an order of magnitude leap from the quality I was doing in Carrara, and I think I am getting there. However, my speed needs some major improvements.
Here is a small update, the center fold-down console with cup holder.
-Jeff

[Seraph77]

I've tried to find some bug to make a constructive crit but I can't... the mesh looks very very good. Now get back to work, but do it faster!!! :D

cheers

[JeffRutan]

I was out of town this weekend for nephew's birthdays and mother's day, so I didn't get much modeling done. However, I did some basic coloring of components...
I know I still need to fix the front bumper and grill, and I still have a list of interior parts to model and refine.
-Jeff

[Bog]

It's always fun figuring out the IOR for the lenses on the indicators. Getting the total internal reflections and lens luminosity right is also a challenge.

But a fun one. I think so anyway. Then again, I get excitable when I get a caustic reflection through my pint in the pub. In public. Around people.

[kurv]

Jeff, just found this thread, and I have to say... AWESOME work man! Glad to see you putting the vehicle I video into practice!

Thanks for sharing it!

[BaseZero]

Jeff,

Thanks for posting to my NASCAR thread. I stumbled across this one and I'm quite impressed, especially if it's your first car. Keep up the fabulous work!

Any relation to Burt Rutan?

Jim

[JeffRutan]

Bog: Yes, the lights on this vehicle are the part that scare me the most as by far the biggest challenge to get to look right in the end. I will appreciate any advice I can get here as I progress on that. Seraph77 already graciously sent me a file to study on one of his taillights.

kurv: Yes, that fantastic Vehicle Modeling video from KURV studios inspired me to start this project right away even before I started watching volume 2! Anyone interested in modeling vehicles should definitely buy that video set!

BaseZero: Thanks for comments on my truck! Yes it is my first sub-d model and my first vehicle. It is by far the most complex 3D project I have ever attempted. I just started learning LW in December, but I used solid spline modeling in Carrara for 3 years before that. All of this is part time and mostly for fun since I am a systems/software engineer by day. I hope to make a full time freelance product design and engineering/production service soon, but I am taking time to improve my skills now.
Yes, Burt Rutan is my father and I am very proud of his work and very excited about the private space program that he is helping to start.

No updates to post today since I flaked out last night. Maybe some more interior details tonight.

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Rear seat shoulder straps...
-Jeff

[Lewis]

Still looking good :).

[Bog]

Your prior spline modelling experience really shows with that belt. Just the one slice in it at the exact right point for where it bends around the cross-piece of the buckle. Smashing stuff as ever.

[JeffRutan]

Thanks Lewis & Bog!
Seatbelt receivers...
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Back window and back side window hardware/latches...
-Jeff

[Seraph77]

lovely detail!!!

[JeffRutan]

Thanks Seraph77! I am really trying to get this finished- on the home stretch now! Other real life stuff to do tomorrow, but more Sunday.
Finished back seat interior:
Dome light, coat hooks, door handles, armrests, door pockets, and seat support frame.
-Jeff

[Bog]

I really like the economy you're working with. Divisions where they're needed, plane surfaces where they're not. Are you Weighting any of your vertices at all, or just letting them flow?

[JeffRutan]

Bog, That is what I am striving to learn with this project and I am improving as I go along. No weighting, just straight sub-d geometry as efficient as I can make it without spending too much time on each part. I try to avoid tris and 5+ edge vertices, but I don't go crazy trying to get rid of all of them unless they really hurt the flow. I learn from looking at all the other fine work in this WIP gallery that flow is everything. This project is interesting to me because of all the details and all the complex curves (not to mention that I like my truck).

I started using spline patch modeling for the body panels, but I am using box modeling for most of the details. I select some points and start with n-gons from those points when I am trying to match a surface (like from outside to inside panels). So this project has given me a variety of experience to learn from. I think I now understand the basics of sub-d, and I am working on improving my speed. I still hope to finish this by the end of this month, but I only have a couple of hours at a time to work on it. All I have left in modeling is detailing the front seat area and then general tweaking for accuracy here and there. Then I will work on the surfaces and rendering (probably spilling into next month, but an entirely different learning experience for me- like a whole other project).

Thanks for your input and looking forward to lots of suggestions during the surfacing and rendering!

-Jeff

[Bog]

Jeff, it's a pleasure. I'm not being a flatterer when I say how impressed I am with how you've picked up SubDs. I've been playing with 'em since the first time they arrived, and my meshes rarely flow so well - I think the prior time of poly-only modelling is something I need to make a concerted effort to unlearn. It's always really enjoyable to see someone doing well with something they're obviously enjoying, and the fact that you're using my favourite modelling software is just gravy :)

One of the enduring pleasures of the LightWave community has been how free everyone is with information sharing, and how the common knowledge pool is very open. It's kinda like the Open Source movement but less strident :)

[Sarford]

Hi Jeff, been going through this thread... man, you blow me away! Incredible for someone who is doing this for the first time.

REALY impressive!!

[JeffRutan]

Bog, Yes, I am enjoying this. I have found 3D modeling to be satisfying of both my creative and engineering / technical sides. I used to find this fulfillment in computer programming. Although system/software engineering still keeps bread on my table, the last few years have not held the passion that I had for the first 20 years. I hope to push 3D and industrial design engineering into my career so I can again mix my business with pleasure.

I failed to take advantage of the user community for the first 3 years of my 3D modeling. It is a tremendous benefit to have so many enthusiasts and professionals here that are so willing to share their work and their critiques and tips without charge. This community has certainly accelerated my learning and kept me dedicated to my project.

Sarford, Thanks! I am enjoying your flying briefcase project too! You must have a lot of patience to read all the way through this thread! If I was faster there would be fewer and more significant updates and this thread would be much shorter. However, through the encouragement and comments here I have kept motivated to keep with it and do much more detail than I originally had in mind. I have learned the most about sub-d by studying the WIP projects in this and other forums.

Here is a small update, the front seat seatbelts...

-Jeff

[paulhart]

Just want to chime in and commend your work, nice flow and clean use of poly-density where needed. You must really like that truck.....
Keep up the fine work, I enjoyed talking to you are the recent training. Perhaps you will join us at the next SDLWUG, next month.
Paul

[JeffRutan]

Thanks Paul! Really enjoyed your classes and talking to you too!
I will try to make the next meeting.

Front seat supports and center console frame...

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

I have 78,619 modeled polys in 40 layers in my truck so far. At the prompting of anouther member, I tried sending it to Layout and the statistics there say 1,351,593 pollys! All of the polys in my truck are sub-d, but I thought that only made 4 polys out of each modeled poly? Obviously it makes a heck of a lot more than that! In fact the mesh is so dense that I can't tell for sure, but it appears that everything is in tris? I have been using Bounding Box view since it draws much faster.

Am I doing something terribly wrong to get over 17X polys in Layout? It could be that I have lots of complex curves with lots of non-planar polys (13,891 when sub-d is turned off).

I have been trying to keep the poly count fairly low but still have lots of reasonably accurate details. I don’t worry too much about non-planars or tris or 5+verts unless they disrupt the flow.

Any advice on this? I read somewhere that you can adjust the level for sub-d. Where do you set that?

-Jeff

[eidetiken]

Hey Jeff, You set the subdivision patch level in Edit/General Options. I'd like to know the answer to the rest of the stuff as well.

[Sarford]

Hi Jeff,

You can set the subpatch level of objects in layout. Select the object and go to properties (hit p). Under the geometry tab you can see two subpatch values:

Display subpatch level and
Render subpatch level.

The Display subpatch level is the subpatch level for displaying in layout. You can set this lower to speed up refresh rates, the detail will go down but affects only the display in Layout.

The Render subpatch level is the level the object is subpatched to for rendering. The higher the number the more polygons and the smoother the surfaces.

The polycount comes from subpatching. If you set subpatch level to three, each poly will be divided by three horizontaly and three verticaly. So in short, one polygon will become nine polygons.

The changing to tris is done to solve the non-planar poly problem. I don't know if the tris are counted in the total polycount though.

[JeffRutan]

Thanks eidetiken and Sarford! Great that the display and render are separate! I had been displaying in Bounding Box only since all other modes are too slow to move anything. However, it is hard to get things positioned just right because bounding box usually goes outside the real edges. I have been switching to Vertex display mode momentarily to check positions, then back to Bounding Box to adjust. I will experiment with lower sub-patch settings to see if that helps. I will be buying FPrime soon to improve rendering performance. I assume that FPrime will NOT help at all with this scene arrangement in Layout? Does 9.0 improve this performance significantly?
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Front door inside details: arm rests, pockets, handles, buttons, locks...
Nearly done, but have another job to do first, so will not finish by the end of this month. :-(
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Just a test render with very rough color surfaces.
I had to do another project for a job (my first using LightWave), so no modeling updates this time.
Yet to do:
Details on dash, steering wheel, rear view mirror, sun visors, and pedals.
Adjust or attach seams between interior and exterior panels.
Some accuracy refinements including front grill/bumper.
Lots of surfacing, lighting, HDRI, rendering and finally a turntable.
-Jeff

[Bog]

..and watch all that detail pay off. I'm really looking forward to seeing this wrapped in the texturing that the model truly deserves! I know it's just a quickie, but the antenna really needs a bit more anti-aliasing. If only one part of a still render is causing AA problems, don't forget you can render a Limited Region and plop the higher anti-aliased patch into the final image. We all do it. Nobody will think less of you.

Congratulations on your first paid LightWave Gig! Kinda like Crossing The Line for a seaman, that! Don't forget, at least 90% of the proceeds from your first job has to be converted into alcohol and consumed uproariously. It's tradition, don't'ch'a know? ;)

Are you using Nine? (Now that we can ask that of each other as the NDA's been lifted). There's a boatload of stuff in the new Nodal shaders that makes for lovely emulations of the multilayered nature of a car's paint job.

[JeffRutan]

Thanks Bog! No I am not using 9 yet. I plan to wait until the official release.
The more AA I did on the antenna the worse it got, so I will have to try something different next time. I need to get FPrime soon, but hoping they will have a deal and/or a new version when 9.0 is released, so still stalling on that purchase.

This may be heresy, but I tried some test renders in the new modo 201...
-Jeff

[Intuition]

F-Prime will help alot in he rendering dept. definintely.

Make monte carlo radiosity GI renders go from hours to seconds.

Great model Jeff!

I've been hoping a new f-prime will come out when 9 is released. I do hope it does since 9 has alot of new stuff that would be great to render at f-prime speeds.

Again, great work, keep it up.

Oh BTW, I love Space Ship 1!

[Seraph77]

the model looks good, but I thint I dont like those modo GI shadows - look at the wheels - they look like they dont touch the ground. Compare it to the clay render (your previous image). How much time did the render take anyway?

cheers

Seraph

[JeffRutan]

The tires are embedded into the stage just a bit trying to fake a little flattening from weight on the tires. I think maybe that is not working very well. I am really ignorant of shading and rendering techniques, so it is not fair to judge anything from what I do. The render performance of modo is at least twice as fast as LW 8.5 render with similar settings (for me on the Mac), but I think FPrime will be much faster than either. Once I get closer to what I want in modo, I will transfer the settings to LightWave and run more of a fair comparison of speed and quality.
-Jeff

[sliceadjust]

I think a better comparison would be between Modo and Lightwave 9. I am curious to see how Lightwave stacks up against Modo's new renderer. Great modeling by the way.

[JeffRutan]

What is the deal with 9 now? I thought the Beta was over? Can anyone who paid for 9 get it now, or do we have to wait for the release now?
Any clues when the release will be?
-Jeff

[sliceadjust]

This should clear things up for you Jeff: http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51419

[kurv]

Jeff I can not believe your doing this well so soon, man your a natural! you gotta send me some image we can use o KURV to show off your work!

Thanks!!

[JeffRutan]

Wes, Thanks! I would love to show my stuff on your site and endorse your great videos that inspired me! Feel free to copy any of the images in this thread for use on your site. If you need something specific from me or if you want some original exclusive / different shots, or something in writing, please send me an email ( jeffrutan at mac dot com ).

I have been working on surfacing/lighting/rendering using modo 201 since I was getting frustrated with the render speed in LightWave 8.5. I have been putting off buying FPrime hoping there will be a good deal and a new version once LW 9.0 is released.
Here are my latest renders using modo 201. I am fairly happy with the look. I will try to duplicate these using LW 9.0 and FPrime when I get those products and do some speed and quality comparisons. Remember, I am a beginner at LightWave and just started playing with modo, so don't judge anything about these products based on my work.

Still to do:

* Finish detail modeling interior dashboard, steering wheel column, sun visors and pedals.
* Miscellaneous modeling accuracy tweaks (including front bumper and grill/hood line).
* Render views from back of truck and interior looking forward (dash details).
* Try to do a cool turntable animation.

-Jeff

[L_RZA]

dude that looks simply fantastic .. Im real impressed mate ..

simply lightwave - simply awesome ..

[Captain Obvious]

I'm impressed, Jeff! :thumbsup:

[Bog]

Did you actually model all those crenellations in the lens interiors, Jeff?

[JeffRutan]

L_RZA and Captain, Thanks!

Bog, Wow- I had to look that word up (crenellated- notched like the battlements at the top of a castle)! Yes, I modeled the prisms inside the headlights/taillights/bed light and since I got the materials right it is now paying off as I had hoped it would- very close to the appearance of the real thing.

Here is a link to my headlight modeling found earlier in this thread (page 6):
http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=34489&d=1152900806

-Jeff

[Sarford]

Wow Jeff, this thing is realy spectaculair!!

Just seems like the numberplate and the Ford-logo ar a bit low res compared to the rest of the truck.

Man, you should put this model on turbosquid, you could easely get a hunderd bucks per sold model I guess...

Realy great model, in the right enviroment it could pass for a photo...

[Bog]

There seems to be a Chevy truck of similar style for $120, and it's listed as 75,000 polygons. I think that's probably the number of patches used for the interior of the flatbed on this model. I suppose, though, at least things can get sold multiple times. I always wince a bit thinking about the prices on TurboSquid, though - my brain's still in the habit of thinking "well, this took me three weeks to do, and my day rate is $whatever, so this model should cost $thatmuch"

Anyhoooo.... Lookin' forward to seeing your truck out of the showroom and on the road, Jeff!

[JeffRutan]

Thanks Sarford and Bog! I really didn't plan to take this model out of the show room. I want to get it finished and move on to my next project!

I have thought of maybe trying to sell this on TurboSquid. I will have to look into how that is done and how to convert to different formats. This was a learning project, so I have no hope of recovering for the time I invested in it, but it could be fun to try to sell it. I will be happy to share this model with anyone here who has helped me significantly with this project. Just email me (jeffrutan at mac dot com) and we can figure out a way to send it to you). Maybe one of you would like to try making a more realistic scene using it? That would really be cool to see someone with more experience make my truck into something photorealistic!

An update: bump map and sharper image on license plate, cleaner and sharper Ford logo, more accurate headlights, sharper tires and Michelin logos, lighter background, a touch lighter in general, and more deliberate glare on the windows.

Plus a green version that is kind of hideous, but I wanted to try a different color real quick.

I tried some other HDR images and got some better results in terms of color and less weird distortions, but none in the collection that came with modo 201 are as dramatic and pleasing to me as this one. I will keep looking online to find a better one.

I also tried using displacement instead of bump for the Michelin logos, but ended up going back to a stronger bump for this view. The displacement does look better for close-ups, but not so good at this distance. Also, the displacement added a large amount of render time and memory usage. I set it up so I can switch back and forth easily for different views.

-Jeff

[Bog]

That's really getting there. It's strange how much of a difference just tuning up a few maps can make! Though "hideous" is several thousand percent too harsh, to be honest.

Dunno if you've come across this particular HDR resource:

http://www.debevec.org/Probes/

(Gotta love the term "Light Probe". Proper mad scientist stuff, that...)

[Andyjaggy]

Amazing man. I have currently been going through the Kurv Studios car video myself and it really is a truly great tutorial. I'm hoping that I can do something as good as your Ford when I am done with it.

[Bog]

I'm hoping that I can do something as good as your Ford when I am done with it.

I'm finding myself both challenged and energised by the fact that this is JeffRutan's first SubDivisionSurface Object in LW.

His first. Lordy.

One of the reasons I've been so active in this thread is because he's been helping me - though his work - ditch my Very Old Preconceptions of what is possible with LW's tools in the amount of time avilable. I came in via the Amiga, before even MetaNURBS were available, let along SubPatches. And, as he's said, this is his *first model*

It's an education. It really is time to throw away conceptions of what one can do in 3D, and embrace the fact that one can do anything. I'm doing my darnedest to chuck out my old timescale models in light of new reality, and it's tougher than I thought it would be. I've started to identify times when I've shied from detail levels because of a habit of limiting polycounts and surface definition counts to the times when the systems wouldn't support them - but they do these days. This is a very important thread to me, on a great deal of levels - I needed a boot up my arse to get my out a rut!

But the bottom line, Andy, is what LightWave's been about since day one.

"Can Do."

Cheesy? Yes. Hoary? Yes. Jaded? Yes.

True?
Yes.

[JeffRutan]

Andyjaggy: That video is a great learning and inspiration tool! I highly recommend it to anyone here!

All you need to do a great 3D project is the following:
A project that you have some passion for.
A belief that you can do it.
A commitment and determination to stick with it.
And the support you get when you post your work to this forum!

This project is by far the most complex and ambitious 3D project I have done, and it has taken me a long time and is still not complete, but that video inspired me to start, and this forum helped me realize the goal with better results than I dreamed possible when I started.

Bog: Now you are just embarrassing me! ;-) I hope that my work here will inspire lots of users to take on a significant project and post it here!

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

The guys at the modo forum would not let me off the hook until I made the headlights look more realistic and narrowed and darkened the tire sidewalls...
-Jeff

[Bog]

"He said it again!"

"I don't want anyone stoning anyone else until I blow this whistle, even if they do say Modo!"

</python>

;)

Those headlamp lenses are starting to look very cool indeed.

[JeffRutan]

Relax Bog, and please don't take it so personal! ;-)
When I get my released version of LW9 and FPrime, I will move this project back to rendering in LightWave, but for now my LW8.5 is just way too slow rendering this large model. I am still doing all the modeling in LightWave.
-Jeff

[Bog]

Ah mate, don't take me so seriously! I just saw a chance to paraphrase a bit of Life of Brian! ;)

[zapper1998]

WOW thats all I can say is WOW Awesome model

[Sarford]

Wow Jeff, these headlights are just spectaculair!!

[L_RZA]

I am sorry to say this Jeff as this has been a pleasure watching you build this model, but I feel that the wheels/rims let down the great detail that you have put into this model ..

Now, I will say that I have no idea what theyre meant to look like but I do feel that they dont look particularly flattering considering the rest is so perfect ..

[JeffRutan]

Zapper1998 and Sarford: Thanks for complements! I have seen many headlights that are much better, and I think I have learned some new things from looking at those that I can do better in the future, but I am satisfied with these for this project for now.

L_RZA: Thanks for the crit- I really do appreciate those! Also thanks for saying the rest is "so perfect" although I know it is far from that ;-).

Here is a reference picture of the tire and wheel, along with my wheel modeling. Do you think I need to tighten up the model and/or add some grime to the surface?

-Jeff

[Scazzino]

Hi Jeff,

Excellent job on both the modeling and rendering!

Well done!

[JeffRutan]

Scazzino: Thanks! Enjoying watching your movie come together too!

Here are some wire renders I am playing with:

-Jeff

[ShawnStovall]

Maybe this will explain what I mean:

<Problem Uploading 2nd image but it is bending Left in the second one>

[Bog]

Mmm.

As to Shaun's "bending", I'm not sure sure - but it looks like you could take a Bandsaw to the median line of the wheel-hub from smooth/flat to smooth/inward-curving with no ill effects - the curvature boundary could do with just a smiiiiidge more definition for verisimilitude.

Hee Hoo knows full well it's easier to crit other folk's work than to improve one's own...

[JeffRutan]

Thanks for input guys! OK, I think I get it... The sweep of the holes around the hub are not sharp and distinct detailed enough and need to sweep around more? I think I got it about right in the straight poly mode, but sub-d smoothes it out too much. I will work on that. The clockwise/counterclockwise is only because the photo is of the left front wheel and the model is of the right front wheel.

I will do this and more modeling details in LightWave this week. My wife and I took most of the long American Independence Day weekend off, so not much 3D done over the last few days. I need to finish this soon because I am booked to present this project to our local San Diego LightWave User Group on August 15th. I hope to redo final renders in LW9 and FPrime before then too.

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Well, since all the old images were trashed, I decided to repost a few samples from this thread.

February 26 to April 18, 2006

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

April 3-18, 2006 Details.

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

April 29 to May 29, 2006 Interior.

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

April 29 to June 1, 2006 Early Renders (LightWave 8.5).

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

June 2 to June 14, 2006 modo 201 Renders.

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

EDIT: Apparently NewTek is now allowing us to edit our posts here to restore our lost images. Thanks NewTek!

So I went through and restored all the images that I had posted in this thread. It took a lot of time, but I think these WIP threads are valuable educational resources worth keeping.

I hope others will take the time to restore their threads too if they can- especially the more complex projects with lots of wires.

My last few posts in this thread now have redundant images, but I will leave them as a summary since they all fall on one page.

My next work will be more interior detail modeling and accuracy tweaks, followed by final renders in LW 9.0 and FPrime!

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Back to modeling! Here is the radio, air controls, and a couple of vents.
I could do lots more details, but I am keeping the interior fairly rough.

-Jeff

[Lewis]

Still looking better and better :).

[JeffRutan]

Thanks Lewis! The details on the dash are really hard and time consuming for me because of all the sweeping curved lines and off axis stuff. Here is an update.
-Jeff

[Lewis]

Hehe i know what you mean when you say hard to model interior :). I've modeled dozen of interiors and i have one in my collection where front part of interior (front seats, headliner, dashboard+steering and front door interior it's 123 000 SubDs only for that ;). I wish i could show it to help you but sadly it's under NDA forever and i've done it more than year ago :(.

But you are doing great job on your own anyway ;).

[JeffRutan]

Not making much progress due to other distractions, but here is an update (first loaded into the new 9.0).
There are lots of areas I need to tweak on this dash still, but I am trying to get all the details I want in first.
-Jeff

[Bog]

Now this is a prime example of a brilliant test-bed model for Catmull-Clarke sub-Ds. Jeff, if you have a chance (New copy of 9, launch party tomorrow. Some chance. ;) ) can you switch this over to C-Squared SubDs and let us know if you find any significant slow-down with your work?

Oh, and welcome to the club. Word to the wise? If it's not that way to start with, in both Layout and Modeler slap ALT-F10, go to the Presets drop-down and switch over to Production Studio style menus - it brings 9's grunt-power right up to the top so you can see it easily. Big Learning Step.

Still looking stunning, sorry to suggest using you as a guinea pig :)

(Oh, and you really want to try a few renders through the new Cameras. They are Way Cool)

[JeffRutan]

Well, I have been busy with other things (including a guess at the Mac Pro to be announced next week) and just today got back to this project. I finished up the level of detail I wanted to do on the dash. Next is the steering wheel/column, followed by pedals and sun visors to finish the interior, then a list general tweaking for accuracy here and there.
-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

Maybe not Monday, but soon?

This is an update of my Mac Pro guess reflecting the newest rumors of a 40" 3840x2400 display with built-in tilt-able iSight camera (including microphone and IR remote sensor).

The top graphics cards with dual channel DVI interfaces all support 3840x2400, so someone has to fill this void! ;-)
I expect around $5000.00 USD as a premium workstation for video production and 3D animation. The top workstation cards will already support 2 of these!

-Jeff

[Scazzino]

Maybe not Monday, but soon?

This is an update of my Mac Pro guess reflecting the newest rumors of a 40" 3840x2400 display with built-in tilt-able iSight camera (including microphone and IR remote sensor).

The top graphics cards with dual channel DVI interfaces all support 3840x2400, so someone has to fill this void! ;-)
I expect around $5000.00 USD as a premium workstation for video production and 3D animation. The top workstation cards will already support 2 of these!

-Jeff

Hi Jeff,

That workstation looks great!

I can't wait to get my hands on one... ;)

I'm currently running a DP G5 with an ACD 23" and 17" monitor.

[Andyjaggy]

Can you imagine working on a 40" screen! Wow, at that resolution it could display an entire 100% view of a picture out of my DSLR. That would be heaven.

[JeffRutan]

Here is some stuff on Quad-HD (3840x2160):
http://hdbeat.com/search/?q=cmo
Final Cut Pro users will need this soon.
This may not be introduced until next year, but it is coming!
There is even a Super-HD (7680x4320) already working and coming in a few years.
-Jeff

[Ramon]

Hey Jeff, thanks for reposting all the images to the thread, I am truly enjoying them!
Congrates man! Really awesome job on the truck! LOVE THE DETAILS - especially the headlight geometry on the headlight glass!!! SHHESH! I imagine that most people would use a texture map (bump) for that but, that's so cool that you actually modeled it out true to the real truck.

You and Lewis inspire me to step up to that level of detail!
This is a great thread filled with great info contributed by all the guys here!
One question I have though is about modo. I am curious about your feelings towards LW vs. Modo and also curious as to why you didn't render it out in LW as you did with Modo. Just curious. Lewis, if you care to also respond to whether you are using modo and if so, to what capacity.
THANKS
Ramon

[zapper1998]

awesome looking truck model
how many polys again??
Wow just awesome

[Bog]

how many polys again??

Most o'them, I think ;)

[JeffRutan]

Ramon: Being inexperienced at this, I modeled just about everything even if bump map textures or displacement mapping would have been more efficient. I did use bump maps for the license plate lettering and for the Michelin logo on the tires, and I will put a subtle bump map texture on the bed liner and parts of the interior.
I am happy that my work and the comments of others here are inspiring! That is a great value of this forum! I started using modo 201 to render this project because the LW8.5 performance on my PowerBook got unusable slow with this big model (over 95K raw polys before sub-d and all of them in sub-d). I still intend to go back to surface and render this in LW9 before I call this project finished, and I am still doing all of the modeling in LW9. Actually, I hope to get FPrime and a Universal Binary Mac OS X version of LW before I complete the LW surface and render final steps (or I may just finish it on my PC if I must).

Zapper1998 & Bog: over 95K raw polys so far (yes- all of them in the render, but I can only work with a couple of the 40 layers at a time when in sub-d because the OpenGL performance on Mac is unusable in LightWave with all of the layers visible at the same time).

I will be presenting this project (1997 Ford F-150 Lariat) to the San Diego LightWave User Group at CryWolf Computers this Saturday (August 19, 2006). The meeting is from 11 am to 2 pm, and I will be the first presenter.
http://www.sdlightwave.com/next-meeting.htm
Please come if you are in the area. I would love to meet more of my fellow 3D enthusiasts! I will focus on modeling in LightWave and try to avoid references to modo in this presentation.

-Jeff

[Bog]

40 layers!?! Blimey. If you were to take this particular thread and blogify it (I would, it's been a great journey), I'd post a picture of that layers window.

Have fun with the presentation, it's a cracking example of uber-detail Subpatch work.

[JeffRutan]

Just for you Bog, Layers and Stats...
My presentation will be sort of a verbal blog of this project with slides (I added this image as one of the slides).
-Jeff

[Ramon]

Hey Jeff,
It looks freakin awesome man! I'm impressed. :thumbsup: Keep on truck'n (pardon the pun). Love to see that LW render in comparison to Modo 201's. If you had that new Mac pro quad proc. and LW universal that would absolutely fly!

[Matt]

I love this type of modelling, I just wish I was as accomplished!

[JeffRutan]

Matt,

I have not seen much of your work, but you certainly have been around here for a while and have some good ideas, so I am sure you are better than you are letting on.

This thread is not about a display of skill. It is about sharing a significant learning experience (my fist sub-d project). I started with a little training and got inspired by a KURV vehicle modeling video and just jumped in with the determination to finish it even if it took a long time (it has and is still not completely finished).

I think with some inspiration and lots of perspiration anyone who really wants to can do this stuff.

I am presenting this project to my local LightWave user group this Saturday, not because I have anything to teach the others in the group (they are all much better and more experienced than me), but just to share the story of the journey and lessons learned with all the great help and encouragement I got in this forum.

-Jeff

[Bog]

This thread is not about a display of skill. It is about sharing a significant learning experience (my fist sub-d project). I started with a little training and got inspired by a KURV vehicle modeling video and just jumped in with the determination to finish it even if it took a long time (it has and is still not completely finished).

I think with some inspiration and lots of perspiration anyone who really wants to can do this stuff.

And with that self-effacing, simple and honest comment, the chap goes and proves himself to be a prince among men.

Jeff, you really get it. When I first saw you join this forum, I was excited that the son of the bloke who built SpaceShipOne - and many other wonderful airframes besides - had joined our little community, but when I read that post I feel very, very proud that you are here. Nothing to do with your dad - just that a decent man stands among us.

As is tradition, and grinning,

"One of us. One of us. One of us!"

*edit*

We're on a journey, folks. CGI is coming of age. There's very little we cannot do. And the quality of a journey comes from our fellow travellers, as much as from what we see and do on the way.

Call me sentimental.

[iconoclasty]

That was Beautiful Bog. Truly.

[Bog]

That was Beautiful Bog. Truly.

Heh. If it's beautiful, that's only because of what it's reflecting, not 'cause of anything I brought to the party.

*edit* Sorry if I embarassed anyone but myself with my over-enthusiasm. I just love this darn community, and I get all emotional sometimes and it was saturday night and Sue and I had celebrating putting a new floor down and and and oh well ;)

[JeffRutan]

Now girls it is getting a little too sappy here! ;-)

Still great to be considered one of the gang here!

I am visiting family this weekend, so not online much.
My presentation to the San Diego LightWave user group was not what I expected since there were not that many there, and a couple of guys were new to LightWave and new to the concept of sub-d, so I actually did spend a lot of my time explaining details (with help from others in the group). There were so many questions that I ran out of time before I got to the demo portion of my presentation. It was still fun, and I enjoyed the unexpected opportunity to do a little teaching.

After me, we had a nice presentation from Larry Shultz (via web conference). He explained Nodal surfacing in a way that we all finally understood what the big deal was. He showed some really cool animation effects produced with just a simple ball and creative combinations of nodes feeding into each other. Lots of fun! I am looking forward to seeing some of this used on Sci-Fi TV shows like Battlestar Galactica!

-Jeff

[JeffRutan]

In putting together my presentation for the San Diego LightWave User Group, I found my first software program that I wrote. It was a 3D drafting system that I wrote for the Apple II computer back in 1982-1983. It was derived from an original concept and some BASIC code that my dad had written earlier to pre-visualize aircraft concepts. I developed it into a marketable system (in 6502 assembly language) and I produced and sold it through microcomputer trade magazines for a short time.

The tutorial in the manual was a passenger car- representing my very first computer-generated 3D vehicle. ;-)

The registration card requests a self-addressed-stamped envelope for responses to user questions (before Internet and modems were generally available and affordable).

Fun to note the system specifications, especially the extraordinary capacity in full floating point precision (600 points and lines per file or 1200 if you use symmetry)! You could load multiple files one at a time and add the wire frame renders to one final image for theoretically limitless point/line capacity! ;-)

-Jeff

[Andyjaggy]

:oye: :oye: I am all teary eyed now Bog, that was beautiful. So wait Jeff you are the son of the bloke who built SpaceShipOne? If that is the case no wonder you said you had a special place in your heart for airplanes!

[Lewis]

Lewis, if you care to also respond to whether you are using modo and if so, to what capacity.
THANKS
Ramon

Hi Ramon !

No I don't use modo. I tried it few times but it was always to much unstable for me to work in it (Nvidia) :(. I played for some time with it and there is many good things but Spline Patching isn't one of my favourites in Modo and i mostly spline patch cars so it's important to me. Since Lw9 come with Edges/SubDs CC i really don't see any benefits of modo for my workflow (i don't need 3D paint) and price is too high IMHO (i can pay for it no problem but i think price isn't fair when comparing to LW which is full package). It's great looking app and customization is fantastic but i'm faster in LW than i modo (Does it now alow add to slection with MMB or still shift+LMB only) no matter that they have similar tools LWmodeler is much more stable for me than modo ever was :(. Maybe it will be better in future but as long as they have similar tools and i can make all what I need (actually what my clients need)in LW i don't see reason to switch app.

cheers