dumb question about hardware - cpus specifically

[maxxwv]

Ok - I haven't really thought about upgrading hardware in quite some time, and apparantly I've completely lost my grasp on processors during that period. So, now I'm shopping for pieces and parts to build a new system, and I'm looking at AMD processors. Boxx systems has its' 3200 series, AMD Athlon processors and my question is this - they offer the Athlon 64 and the Athlon 64 x2. Is the x2 a different generation cpu or do they mean that the system has 2 cpus by it? Because in the 5100 series, they offer Single and Dual Opterons. So, needless to say, I'm confused.

Also, which is actually the better processor - Athlon or Opteron?

Sorry for the base idiocy of the questions, I've searched here and CGTalk and didn't find anything directly comparing the two sets of processors or talking about the 64 x2.

Also, I'd like to build the new system on a 64 bit base and run regular 32-bit XP Pro (and software) until all the soft catches up to 64 bit operation. I understand that 64 bit processors won't barf on 32 bit applications - correct?

Thanks in advance for any/all advice and comments.

[MiniFireDragon]

Not sure on the x2 but I would guess Dual Core.

Difference between Athlon and Opteron

Opteron has alot more cache memory then the Athlon which makes it a faster CPU and more expensive.

[maxxwv]

Excellent - thank you!

I hate the fact that I've gotten so ignorant about a basic tool of the trade...

[Captain Obvious]

The X2 has two cores in it, like MiniFireDragon said. A single X2 performs about as well as two Opterons running at the same clock speed. The Opteron and Athlon64 are basically the same processors. The only real difference is that the Opteron can be used in multi-processor setups. Thusly, the question if one or the other is better is somewhat irrelevant. The Opteron costs a lot more, but if you want a quad-processor box, you can't go with Athlon64s. If you want a dual system, you could go with either a single Athlon64 X2 or two Opterons. The latter probably costs more, and it doesn't perform better.


I understand that 64 bit processors won't barf on 32 bit applications - correct?
Both the Athlon64 and Opteron can do both 64-bit and 32-bit code, side by side. In other words: yes, that is correct.

[MiniFireDragon]

Captain Obvious forgot to mention that pay close attention to the Athlon64's (especially dual cores... akak X2) one set has 512kb(non X2) cache another is 2x512kb cache there is the 1mb cache version (non X2), and another version is a 2x1mb cache where is seems all Opteron's have a 1mb Cache.

Don't forget the FX processor set which was designed around Nvidia's chipset.

[Celshader]

For what it's worth, 2cpu.com's A64/Opteron FAQ:
http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37128

I run a dual-Opteron at home. It requires registered RAM, which is more expensive than the unbuffered (unregistered) RAM that A64's use.

I built that machine last year. It's served me well, but if I had to build one again this year, I'd probably go for a cheaper X2 system.

I'd love a quad-core setup, but dual-core Opterons cost a lot right now. I think the A64 X2's currently offer the best value -- cheaper boards, cheaper RAM, cheaper processors! :thumbsup:

[maxxwv]

Thanks for the info and links guys and gals! I appreciate it greatly. Sounds like Athlon x2 is gonna be a more cost effective way to go for right now... I mean, I'd love a quad system, but I just don't make that much money. :D So, one processor that does the work of two sounds great.

[Captain Obvious]

Rumour has it Apple might release a dual dual-core PowerMac G5 any day now. It may just be rumours, but there has been a lot of evidence pointing towards them releasing something with four processors cores... If they do release it, it might be cheaper than a quad Xeon or Opteron setup, and it would probably perform about as well. I suggest waiting a day or two.

[kilvano]

Im having the same dilema as you.

I have about £500 - £600 to spend on a new Mobo, CPU and maybe a new graphics card although i can stick with my current one for a bit longer if i need to.

Do i go for:-
2 x Xeon Necona
2 x Opteron
1 x Pentium Dual
1 x Athlon X2

Xeons are getting quite cheap these days and they have 2mb L2 cache on the 64-bit Nocona versions. Only problem is that the Mobos for these are expensive. Ive been looking at the Tyan.

I think im going to go for:-

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ S939 512KB - £255.98
Gigabyte GA-K8NXP-9 - £109

OR

Intel Pentium 4 Dual Core 2.8GHz - £179.86
ECS PF5 Extreme mobo - £90 (This months PC Pro said it was awesome)

If i get the Pentium i may be able to afford a GeForce 7800 256mb also.
I think i may also need to update my PSU for this stuff.

Can you guys give me opinions on which you think i should go for. I also need help on GFX cards cause ive been out of the loop for a bit. Should i go for a 3D card or a gaming card. I dont game very much...spend too much time on LW.

Cheers in advance.

Chris

[Lynx3d]

AnandTech tested the Athlon64 X2 3800+ against the Pentium D 830 (3.0GHz), just see yourself which one got the recommendation:
http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484

[kilvano]

Point Taken

Think ill be buying an AMD

Cheers for that

[Captain Obvious]

It should be pointed out that they never tested Lightwave. 3DSM's renderer is probably quite different from Lightwave's, and performs differently.

[Lynx3d]

Unfortunately it is very hard to find X2 3800+ benches with Lightwave where the tester didn't make obvious mistakes like not even finding the thread settings...let alone naming the scene they tested...

The only one looking "correctly" done to me was done with LW 7.5 and is italian...
at least comparing with blanos 7.5 results indicate that threads were set to more than 1. But with LW 8.5 this may already look different, and no one can predict how it will perform with LW9.
http://www.hwupgrade.it/articoli/stampa/cpu/1335/
That one looks pretty strong in favour to AMD...you'll also notice how much the missing HyperThreading impacts performance when comparing Pentium EE 840 with the Pentium D 840, because those CPUs are identicaly otherwise...