Guess what I've made?

[Chruser]

It's a HEAD! :D

Actually, this is one of my first attempt to do organic modeling, so any help/advice would be appreciated. I was just about to add the eyelashes/eyebrows when I thought the skin looked a little strange in some way along with parts of the modeling.

So, go ahead and give me some advice if you want to. :)

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/22-32975_tn.jpg (http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/22-32975.jpg)

Besides, I got a bit extra time on my hands, so I thought I could spray a silver coat over his face and give him a Ronald McDonald hairstyle, so here's a more stylish version of the character:

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/22-33041_tn.jpg (http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/22-33041.jpg)

:D

[Dave3D]

u need to work on the shape, i bet it was made by the box modeling route, i hate that way so much they always turn out crappy

Dave

[Zarathustra]

I think what Dave means is that your face is flat, indicative of newbie box modeling.

I don't like box modeling either, but to each his own. It works for many.

Dave - why white type over almost white for your site navigation?

[Chruser]

Originally posted by Dave3D
u need to work on the shape, i bet it was made by the box modeling route, i hate that way so much they always turn out crappy

No, in fact, I made it poly by poly by using the extender tool fairly much. And thanks for your advice, but it's not really going to be of much help to me. :(

[Zarathustra]

Don't start whining like Dick Ma. You can infer from his comments that your face looks too flat. Obviously you didn't notice it was, or else you wouldn't have posted the images. Therefore, he did help you.

[Chruser]

Sorry, I'll take it into account. Ironically, I just finished reading through the comments in Dick Ma's thread, and I'll try to take everything as constructive criticism. I'm just not very used to being extremely straight-forward, but I think I'm beginning to like it... :)

[Zarathustra]

Excellent!

If you whine, you only empower your antagonist. Silence him by making better work. Conquer him by making him appreciate, and ultimately, envy your work.

"That which does not kill me makes me stronger."

[Chuck]

You were doing fine, Chruser, not whining, and the critiques departed from being on point and appropriate when they made assumptions about the modeling method, editorialized on it, and then castigated you for whining when you weren't - you just had not yet sorted out the useful from the irrelevant-but-distracting in their comments.

[Hiraghm]

Ahh, I disagree, Zarathustra. Dave3D made an absolute generalization ("...they always turn out crappy",) which can and should be refuted, and is borederline criticizm at best. The rest of his comment "looks like box modelled..." etc is criticism, but that part of it wasn't necessary... sometimes "whining" isn't whining.

But the part that is BS is when you said:
Silence him by making better work. Conquer him by making him appreciate, and ultimately, envy your work.


Lemme tell you a little story about making "better work". I used to have this brother, see. He was 10 years older than me, and we both worked for my father laying brick, back when we were young. I could say my work never suited him, he was always critical of it, even when our father wasn't, but that wouldn't quite get the point across. He would criticize my work and belittle my effort for no other reason than to make me work harder/faster. Even though I was better at it than he was (I didn't know it at the time, of course). The reason was that he was a sadistic horse's backside who criticized everything that wasn't done by him, and he delighted in making me exhaust myself trying to satisfy him. Yes, there are people like that out there, who will find an excuse to criticize ANYTHING. Dave3D isn't one of them, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you can't make someone acknowledge the quality of your work simply by trying harder, unless that person is being impartially critical. You've seen some members here who will criticize anything, just to get off on belittling someone.

You have to temper the criticism with your own judgement. Not just whether the criticism is sincere, but also whether it's valid.

I've seen box-model head tutorials, and they look just as good to me as the spline-model head tutorials I've seen.

Dang.. broke another soapbox...

[Zarathustra]

Chuck - I wanted to stop this outbreak of nonsense where everyone's feelings are hurt by critiques. Chruser is doing fine and doesn't need you or anyone else to hold his hand.

Hiraghm - The difference here is
1) No matter how unreasonable a critique is, there's always some truth there and you can ALWAYS do better and use seemingly ridiculous critiques as fuel for improving
2) This being a community, eventually people who post negative comments JUST to be Aholes will be singled out, ESPECIALLY if the work you post is REALLY good and most people congratulate you for it.

Sometimes you have to set impossible goals (like converting your enemies) to give yourself a perpetual impetus for improvement.

[Chuck]

Zarathustra - I'm the admin here. I'm open to input form the users on admin and moderation, but I'll make the decisions and handle any moderation issues that arise - just as I was doing in suggesting that you review your behavior on this thread.

To make my points a little less subtly - your comments weren't hugely out of line, just a little abrasive when they didn't need to be, especially given that Chruser's response was not in fact whining and you had no cause to react by telling him not to whine. Referring to another user of the board as whining was also just plain not necessary. Reiterating what the relevant points were could - and should - have been done diplomatically.

[Zarathustra]

:rolleyes:

[groodwanderer]

okay a few things i noticed were his forehead, his nose, and his eyes. The forehead just above the eyes there is a line going across it that shouldn't be there. Look at the nose, there is a crease right where the face and nose meet try smoothing the transition. And the eyes, the wrinkle under the eye lid doesn't look logical. Try looking in a mirror and seeing where your eye creases begin and end. Oh i noticed a few more things. Okay his cheeks need more definition and shape. At the moment they look like raised squares. His nose has a good start but try giving that more detail as well. Define the nostrils a bit more. I don't know if you wanted ppl to point out texturing or not. but just in case you didn't know it, there is some bad stretching going on.:)
Those ears are killer. Love em. :cool: you did some superb work on those.:cool: well hope this helps you a bit.

-tim-

[Chruser]

Originally posted by groodwanderer
okay a few things i noticed were his forehead, his nose, and his eyes. The forehead just above the eyes there is a line going across it that shouldn't be there. Look at the nose, there is a crease right where the face and nose meet try smoothing the transition. And the eyes, the wrinkle under the eye lid doesn't look logical. Try looking in a mirror and seeing where your eye creases begin and end. Oh i noticed a few more things. Okay his cheeks need more definition and shape. At the moment they look like raised squares. His nose has a good start but try giving that more detail as well. Define the nostrils a bit more. I don't know if you wanted ppl to point out texturing or not. but just in case you didn't know it, there is some bad stretching going on.:)
Those ears are killer. Love em. :cool: you did some superb work on those.:cool: well hope this helps you a bit.

I think I could fix the forehead and cheeks quite easily, but the wrinkles under the eyes are tehre because I failed to attach the top of the nose bone to the forehead. I tried to stretch the points out and spin the quads around desperately, but I just can't get it to look good. And the bottom of the nose contains fairly few polygons, so making it realistic is a tad difficult as well. In normal polygon mode, the head has a total of 1002 polygons, so maybe I could increse that a bit to be able to fix the nose.

I just like to work with fairly low to medium amounts of polygons, and I'll see what I can do. :)

Thanks a lot for the help, and I hope I haven't managed to cause any too serious conflicts with this. Like someone said, everyone has their own taste in everything, and art is certainly not an exception. Oh, by the way, I used a spherical map, and I've noticed some even more serious stretching on the top of the character's head. I was thinking about using a cylindrical UV map, but I realized it would be tricky to paint on that one, as some polygons seemed to stretch in a weird way. What do you guys usually use for organic projections? :T

[Zarathustra]

What do you guys usually use for organic projections?

Follow this thread:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3447

scroll down and you'll see that topic has been kicked around pretty good.

You didn't cause any problems. There are just some people here that are immature and oversensitive.