2nd Published image... the Golden Axe

[Rikturscale]

This is the Golden Axe. It is a title belt for the X-treme Dungeon Crawl League. The book it is in, The Guild Sourcebook, comes out tomorrow. After a really long story, I was given a couple of hours to do it.

http://members.aol.com/rikturscale/private/goldenaxe.jpg

I promise I will not be numbering all of my images that are published. I just put these up that way.

[Rei]

Thats a nice image...

The runic is rubbish though. I can understand Dwarvin Runes, Elvish, and Ultimer Underworld Runic.

Rei

[Capel]

Hmmmm....... How long have you been doing 3d?

[Hiraghm]

I like the bump-map effect on this one.

[Rikturscale]

Originally posted by Rei
Thats a nice image...

The runic is rubbish though. I can understand Dwarvin Runes, Elvish, and Ultimer Underworld Runic.

Rei

I had to use original "Runes" because I didn't have time to investigate real ones, like Celtic, The Elder Futhark, The Anglo-Saxon Futhorc, Viking Runes, Etc.

Anything that is listed as Dwarvish, Elvish, etc. is usually under copyright and I would have been flirting with a cease and desist order if I used them.

[Capel]

again, how long have you been doing 3d?

[Rikturscale]

Originally posted by Capel
again, how long have you been doing 3d?

A couple of years as a hobbiest. I model and render in my spare time (of which there is not much.)

I am about to have to do a ton of original spaceships and parts for a project I am working on, as well as more items for the X-crawl guys, so the gig has picked up a bit. I am really looking forward to doing a fantasy creature like a dragon and the like.

[JoBlo]

Have you ever done any organic modeling before? Cuz if you've been doing 3d for a couple of YEARS, i'd think you'd have moved on to bigger and more....... complicated things. I'd say your stuff would be good for someone who's been doing 3d for a few months, maybe. But YEARS??? Even if it is "off and on" and "in your spare time", y'know. Just my humble opinion.:cool:

[pixelranger]

JoBlo: What's your point?

[JoBlo]

My point is, if anyone has been doing 3d for more than a few months, and they're still doing that kind of work, they need to pick a new profession/hobby, cuz they're not progressing... Honestly, i'm sure most of us can say that the image above reminds us of the FIRST THING WE EVER DID IN LIGHTWAVE.

[Rikturscale]

Originally posted by JoBlo
My point is, if anyone has been doing 3d for more than a few months, and they're still doing that kind of work, they need to pick a new profession/hobby, cuz they're not progressing... Honestly, i'm sure most of us can say that the image above reminds us of the FIRST THING WE EVER DID IN LIGHTWAVE.

Wow, you're completly useless aren't you. Do you also heckle children at class plays? Maybe poke fun at the handicapped, too?

Post some of your own work. I do not care how long someone has been doing ANYTHING, there can always be room for improvment. Your kind of critisism is useless drivel that isn't critique at all, but the cries of a bully with serious issues that is best left to a therapist who can explain that pesky attraction to your mother that you have.

Thanks Hiraghm. I kind of liked it too. It helped break up the reflection nicely.

pixelranger... It is on his head.

[MorituriMax]

I like this one a lot.. as for the runes being rubbish, who made you the resident expert on imaginary languages that don't really exist?

Good bump mapping..

[MorituriMax]

Originally posted by JoBlo
My point is, if anyone has been doing 3d for more than a few months, and they're still doing that kind of work, they need to pick a new profession/hobby, cuz they're not progressing... Honestly, i'm sure most of us can say that the image above reminds us of the FIRST THING WE EVER DID IN LIGHTWAVE.

Perhaps you'd care to amaze us with some work of your own.. using the "WE" there at the end seems to imply you've had professional work published of your own..

Any links, or a personal web page we can see your stuff at?

[JoBlo]

I don't remember mentioning that i'm attracted to my mother. I bet you got really mad when you read my post. Why else would you have used such harsh words? My point..... is on my HEAD??? How could you say something so cruel??? And all just because I didn't like your work..... Would you rather I lied, maybe said something like, "Good start, Riktur. Perhaps you could tone down the bump on the ground plane a bit... Keep up the good work, little bear." I prefer truthfulness as opposed to fluff and ***** kissing. And why the request to see some of my work? What does that have to do with yours? Do i somehow need to be better than you for my opinion to matter? Reply.

[JoBlo]

MorituriMax: Did you really mean that?? "I like this one a lot." Compared to what, your little sisters finger paintings? And what's with your guys's incessant need for, "Hey, let's see some of YOUR WORK, man." What would that prove? I know crap, sheer talent and everything inbetween when i see it, just like all of you and anyone else with a pair of eyes. I don't need to be a CG god to have a valid opinion. Y'know, friend? :D

[hrgiger]

If you don't like the work, and you don't have anything helpful to add, you should probably just not comment JoBlo. Your comments were totally uncalled for. If you don't like something, you should probably just move on to the next thread.

[Rikturscale]

Originally posted by JoBlo
MorituriMax: Did you really mean that?? "I like this one a lot." Compared to what, your little sisters finger paintings? And what's with your guys's incessant need for, "Hey, let's see some of YOUR WORK, man." What would that prove? I know crap, sheer talent and everything inbetween when i see it, just like all of you and anyone else with a pair of eyes. I don't need to be a CG god to have a valid opinion. Y'know, friend? :D

Shooo, go away fly. I would rather people who know what they are talking about critique it.

[Rikturscale]

Originally posted by JoBlo
... Would you rather I lied, maybe said something like, "Good start, Riktur. Perhaps you could tone down the bump on the ground plane a bit... Keep up the good work, little bear." I prefer truthfulness as opposed to fluff and ***** kissing. ...

I would rather you say something USEFULL. Anyone with a mouth has an opinion, doesn't make it worth anything...

Originally posted by JoBlo
... Perhaps you could tone down the bump on the ground plane a bit...

Something like this... USEFULL. other than that all of your posts are full of mouth excrement, aka Useless Opinion.

[Rikturscale]

Originally posted by Rikturscale
Shooo, go away fly. I would rather people who know what they are talking about critique it.

And that doesn't mean you have to like it. Though I am sure anyone with a clue knew that.

[MorituriMax]

Originally posted by JoBlo
MorituriMax: Did you really mean that?? "I like this one a lot." Compared to what, your little sisters finger paintings? And what's with your guys's incessant need for, "Hey, let's see some of YOUR WORK, man." What would that prove? I know crap, sheer talent and everything inbetween when i see it, just like all of you and anyone else with a pair of eyes. I don't need to be a CG god to have a valid opinion. Y'know, friend? :D

The point is, if you aren't capable of producing ANY 3d work of your own, don't set yourself up as a judge of someone else's work.

Compared to anything you have done so far, his work is Van Gough..

[Rikturscale]

Originally posted by MorituriMax
Compared to anything you have done so far, his work is Van Gough..

Yes, Neither has ears. :)

[Rei]

People, please tone it down. No flaming here.

Yes, I would be the local expert on fictional languages. And i think thats its an OK image. Could be better, could be much worse.

Rei

[MorituriMax]

Well it's not Lord of the Rings, so I think people can cut the guy some slack for doing a good job of creating what everyone seems to recognize as a rune based language...

Since he did it on the fly without the time to, as Tolkein did, create the entire language, history, culture, and world to go with it, it looks pretty darn good...

Keep up the good work with your modelling.. you can only get better..

[Chuck]

Originally posted by JoBlo
..... Would you rather I lied, maybe said something like, "Good start, Riktur. Perhaps you could tone down the bump on the ground plane a bit... Keep up the good work, little bear."

Yes, if you can provide specific suggestions for improvement of the work, that's what you should do, and without the condescension per above. If you intend nothing more than to insult the creator of the work, you'll need to find another venue - we'll remove your account here and ban you from the board.


I prefer truthfulness as opposed to fluff and ***** kissing.

Their is nothing truthful, honest, or even reasonable about pure nastiness, which is what you've displayed so far.

[Hiraghm]

"A skunk is better company than a person who prides himself on being 'frank'". - Robert A. Heinlein

Whose side are you on, JoBlo? We're all here to become better artists, and in exchange for being made better artists by peer review, we offer "critical encouragement". This doesn't mean flattery, or "*****-kissing" as you so vulgarly put it, it means we realise that different people have different levels of experience, skill, and talent; that there will always be artists better than ourselves; that even someone of less skill, experience or talent can offer useful advice and encouragement. We also realise that critical encouragement will motivate an artist to improve his work far better than belittling criticism. Browbeating someone because the result of his effort doesn't meet your standards is more likely to encourage him to quit, than to try to learn and become better.

"That stinks" is to "That's good, but try this to make it better" as "you can't" is to "you can".

And it's a far better feeling to see someone achieve something, even something you can't, because you encouraged them to try harder, than it is to see someone fold up his tent and give up because of your brow-beating. Unless you're an insecure, self-centered sadist.

And I'm only explaining this to you, because I'm trying to critically encourage you to be a better member of the community.
;)

[Rei]

Well spoken Hiraghm.

Rei

[JoBlo]

You've changed my life, Hiraghm. ..........Thank you........................
..............................Thank you.

[Hurben]

I think your lighting setup needs some work.. can you give us some details on what light rig you have setup?

[DragonAngel]

Come on guys, can't you see that JoBlo is just one of those "finger" or what was his other nick? Anyways, he will end up getting so frustrated and spilling his hatred all over the forum again and he will once more get kicked out.

[Hurben]

I believe his name was 'ModelMonkey'.

Now about that lighting setup....

[Rikturscale]

Light Setup was a simple Spot with a small fill light.

It is a "Title Belt" for a Role Playing game inspired by Professional Wrestling and set in a modernistic D&D world, called X-Crawl. The Idea behind the game is that all of the Dungeons in the world have been explored, the world is "safe" and the people are getting bored. So the powers in charge bring to the people the D&D version of Roman Bread and Circuses... The Extreme Dungeon Crawl League.

In this world Goldburg, Sting and the Rock wouldn't be in Pro-Wrestling, but fighting Gnolls and Ogres in prefabbed Dungeons for "FABULOUS CASH AND PRIZES!!!"

Had I the time, this pic would have been laced in gemstones, too. It is supposed to be cheesy, like a Pro Wrestling Belt.

That is why I used a Spot instead of the full rig, it is supposed to be on display.

All of that being said, I know it could be better. I am not too happy with the surfaces I did. I wish I could blame them on the prefab Surfaces, but my Lightwave Program has decided it does not like loading surfaces anymore so I am having to Guess-ti-mate most of the surfaces.

Here is a Radiosity version of it I did for fun...

http://members.aol.com/rikturscale/private/GA_RAD.jpg

My system Crashed in the middle of messing with it, so it looked a little different than this one.

I am having to retool this and my Trophy for 9600x12100 for the back cover of the Supplements that feature these awards in the game.

[Rikturscale]

The above pic took 18 1/2 hrs to render...

Thank for all of the help.

[Hurben]

18.5 hours! sh|t

I say turn down your Ray Recursion Limit to around 3 and your Rays Per Evaluation to 3x9. Also turn off raytrace refraction (This is all if you haven't already).

I like this last one way better.. it has context, well some, I think it could do with more.. even if only a gradient or blurred background image. (is that the skydome I can see?, the white?)
and if it is, how many polys does the skydome have? theat'll increase your rendering times heaps.

Also if it's a wrestling belt shouldn't it have more of a curve along the horizontal axis so it can fit to the body?

Are those axes in the middle modelled, or just projected on?

[Rikturscale]

Originally posted by Hurben
18.5 hours! sh|t

I say turn down your Ray Recursion Limit to around 3 and your Rays Per Evaluation to 3x9. Also turn off raytrace refraction (This is all if you haven't already).

I like this last one way better.. it has context, well some, I think it could do with more.. even if only a gradient or blurred background image. (is that the skydome I can see?, the white?)
and if it is, how many polys does the skydome have? theat'll increase your rendering times heaps.

Also if it's a wrestling belt shouldn't it have more of a curve along the horizontal axis so it can fit to the body?

Are those axes in the middle modelled, or just projected on?

It is the Skydome that you can see. I have to leave it blank usually so they (The Publishers) can add their own background if they want. For the cover I am going to try to Model the "belt", maybe use a blurred background image of a crowd of people and I am going to want a HEAP of gems, coins and the like for it to sit on. (Anyone know any shortcuts to doing a pile of coins and gems?)

It is Technically a Trophy, making it a Buckle to a belt was my vision (instead of another Trophy with a cup and all), but the Publisher liked the Flatter shape and is considering having me design some belts the characters would wear in their Dungeon Crawl.

The axes are modeled in halfs and their other "half" is the reflection off of the surface of the Belt. I really liked that effect of having the surface of the belt reflect the other half of the axe and stylized dragons.

[Rikturscale]

I have just ran into a weird problem with this one...

The Wireframe of the model is showing through the textures...

http://members.aol.com/rikturscale/private/GA_Prob.jpg

The Blue is an overlay of the wireframe and the Gold running through the silver texture is not supposed to be there.

[Cassanovastein]

There's been some flaming on this thread and I don't want to step on any more toes here but...is someone paying you for this? I mean, I'm usually a pretty easy grader but there are so many things that scream amateur animator with this piece. A piece you've posted in the "Finished Works"
section no less.

Here's some suggestions for improvement:

1. Nothing cast, born, or forged is as perfectly contoured and shaped. The only thing that is - is hypothetical geometry. Even a cast gold/platinum belt buckle will have several flaws in it. We EXPECT to see inconsistantcies.

2. Uniform textures + uniform treatment of bump maps don't help sell the illusion of this being a real object. The angular line towards the bottom makes the object angle out and the bumps look like one continous sand stone texture. Vary your density of diffuse and bump maps to help sell this as something that was made out here (in the real world) instead of modeled in LW.

3. That table is the resting place for the Grand Belt Buckle of Shecky the Speckled? It looks too pedestrian - like someone could eating their lunch off of it 5 minutes from now. Pile all the perfect jewels and sapphires on it and it will still look wrong. Try making a better table or doing away with it all together and using the coins and junk for what it rests upon.

4. The lighting is anything but regal or royal. It feels so generic - like it just a shadowspot like any other. Look at the way the 2oth Century Fox Logo is lit. It gives you a feel for the spectacle.

Crap, I really think you owe it to your client ( and yourself) to make a quality image here. And if you think what I've said is off base - hey no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to listen.

[Hiraghm]

Making the table rough-hewn like something medieval would be a good idea, especially if you're going to pile jewels on it. However, you did say it was meant to have a certain amount of cheeziness to it, so I dunno.

[Rikturscale]

Originally posted by Cassanovastein

Here's some suggestions for improvement:

1. Nothing cast, born, or forged is as perfectly contoured and shaped. The only thing that is - is hypothetical geometry. Even a cast gold/platinum belt buckle will have several flaws in it. We EXPECT to see inconsistantcies.

2. Uniform textures + uniform treatment of bump maps don't help sell the illusion of this being a real object. The angular line towards the bottom makes the object angle out and the bumps look like one continous sand stone texture. Vary your density of diffuse and bump maps to help sell this as something that was made out here (in the real world) instead of modeled in LW.

3. That table is the resting place for the Grand Belt Buckle of Shecky the Speckled? It looks too pedestrian - like someone could eating their lunch off of it 5 minutes from now. Pile all the perfect jewels and sapphires on it and it will still look wrong. Try making a better table or doing away with it all together and using the coins and junk for what it rests upon.

4. The lighting is anything but regal or royal. It feels so generic - like it just a shadowspot like any other. Look at the way the 2oth Century Fox Logo is lit. It gives you a feel for the spectacle.

Crap, I really think you owe it to your client ( and yourself) to make a quality image here. And if you think what I've said is off base - hey no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to listen.

Yes I was paid, and the client was happy with the piece.

1. It isn't perfect. There is a dent in the frame on the left side of the original (Small I know, but it was left in so that the contour was not perfect, but not so noticable that the fictitious people would have replaced it as damaged. Had I more than 4 hours to do the project again (which I am doing with the cover peice) I will add little things to hopefully add realism.

Any suggestions or settings that might help break up the chrome look of the frame?

2. (Uniform textures + uniform treatment of bump maps) I did not understand what this meant. All of the maps in it were done in Photoshop in that 4 hour period I had to start and complete this.

The Angular Line on the surface is an "Old Style" Dwarven axe head silhouette in memeory of the olden days of battle. I took the idea of angled structure from the LOTR movie series. The smooth line of the contour of the model is the "New Style"... all curvy and smooth, a real thorn in the side of the elder dwarves.

So, they are supposed to clash, but how can I get the same effect and have it look more real?

I am also working on some grime maps for the surfaces. The cover will be in color and bigger than 1/4 page.

3. As bizarre as this might be, that would be a $1500-$2000 end table in the real world. Heavy grain is HUGE in furniture. Though I do feel the finish needs to be more obvious. I would rather have just a pile of jewels and coins on the cover piece though.


4. Lighting was what the client wanted and was in flavor with the book. It isn't supposed to be the 20th century fox Giant logo, but a promo pic of an award. It could use work obviously, but it also doesn't need to be overworked either.

as for the "crap", I agree, I do owe a quality image. The client was happy and he is giving me more work. I am getting better as I go and you guys are helping quite a bit, thanks.