Head

[Limey]

Head that I am currently working on.

Still needs alot of tweeking, around the eyes and the genral shape of the head.

Have attached the caracage body for now for design purposes.

Crit welcome.

[Limey]

And Another

[Limey]

Front one

[Cassanovastein]

Looks really great. It's hard to find much to crit - it's really well modeled thus far.
That nose and those lips are very well defined, Limey.
The things that seem just a little loose are the distance between the eyes and the odd gaps where the outer eyelids meet the upper nose. Also, the cheeks and forehead seem a little generalized. Right now, they are all a contiuation of one round shape instead of a series of shapes in a bone structure. And the ears seem like they are set too far back on the head, too.
Overall I'd say it's an easy couple of steps to really have a breath taking model.
Good work.

[Limey]

I thought the ears looked too far back my self, i was working off a picture of Angelina Jolie, but i think i will adjust it by eye.

Thx you for your comments.

[Limey]

Had time today to reshape the face a bit more, the cheeks i think need more work, paying attention around the mouth

Also i think the jaw is a bit wide.

What do people think?

Help and crit appreciated.

[Limey]

I think the nose probably needs some attention too.

[groodwanderer]

Whooo bring that jaw line back in. That jaw line is way to wide and promenint for a womans head. Maybe bring in the jaw line and define the cheek bones a bit better. Just an idea. The nose looks good to me. I would work on the ears next.

[Doug Nicola]

Yes, bring the jaw line back closer to your original. Something about the lower ear looks off, around the lobe where it connects to the outer rim of the ear. This area needs to be smoother somehow. Right now it seems to have an unnatural crimp there.

Also, the area of the forehead just above the eyes (the name escapes me) needs more definition/bone structure. I think this is what the other post meant when saying that it looks like one continuous (too smooth) shape. Otherwise, looks great!

[Limey]

Thanks for the replies.

It's supposed to look like Angelina Jolie, but it looks more like a combination of David Coulthard and Sophie Ellis Bexter.

Cheers, i'll post the changes soon.

[m_luscombe]

Well, if you are aiming for Jolie, you've got a bit of work ahead, not too much, but a bit =)

But, don't give too much creedance to the Church of Andrew Loomis. Their disciples lurk behind every corner ;)

I think the jaw looks better larger than smaller. Not more like Jolie, but more human. I was going to comment that they forehead looked a little strange, but that has cleared up as well.

[Limey]

I Adjusted the cheekbone, and narrowed the jaw a little.

Do you think it looks Better?

[Limey]

Do you think that the outer corner of the eye looks pulled back to far?

[Limey]

Quick 360 (Divix 5.0.3)

[Doug Nicola]

Thanks for the rotate anim, Limey.

The front view jaw line looks much better now, just right.

The rotate shows some other things. The top of the head looks too flat, and the overall head needs more roundness, I think. Right now that part looks masculine. Overall on the side view, the ear looks too far back. I noticed this a bit from the front, where the ear didn't look visible enough. The side view shows why. The ear should be more centered on the side of the head. This would shorten the jaw as well, which would improve the femininity. (I just noticed you already commented on this earlier, so I guess I'm saying you're right...)

Also the side view jaw line reveals that the jaw line angles up to the ear much too sharply. Right now it's at almost 90 degrees, which looks quite masculine. I think a feminine jaw line should be angled closer to 45 degrees here.

And yes, the eye is pulled back too far in the outside corner. The bridge of the nose is out a tad too far as well.

Looking really cool overall!

[m_luscombe]

Side View (http://www.trcomm.net/tombraider/images/ajwp/Angelina-Jolie02.jpg)

front (http://www.trcomm.net/tombraider/images/ajwp/jolie4g.jpg)

Thought some images would help. Regardless of what is considered "feminine", Angelina Jolie has a wide and sharp jawline.

Here's a whack of images that may help.

image archive (http://www.trcomm.net/tombraider/ajgal.php)

It's counter-productive to start applying "ideal" forms to a portrait. If it doesn't look like the person in question, it doesn't matter how feminine it is.

[Doug Nicola]

That image archive is a great resource for this project!

She definitely has a strong, but still distinctly "feminine" jaw line, I believe. I would refer especially to the second row, fourth image from left profile shot. The angle of the jaw below the ear is distinct, certainly, but not as abrupt as the jaw line from the model we're critiquing. It really is much closer to 45 degrees in Jolie's profile shot (if you can mentally put an angle on the curvature).

I think you can apply a "feminine" vs. "masculine" description to a look without being unfairly general. It's seems like a "hard" female jaw line like Jolie's is still distinctly feminine in its overall look.

For me, the masculine aspect of the critique model just jumps out intuitively as not quite fitting the look Limey's going for, but maybe I'm seeing a more abrupt angle than is really there.

Just my impression!

[Rory_L]

Hello!

The general shapes of your model are very attractive: I`d love to see a wireframe. Bet it`s clean! Nice eyes, too.

However there are a number of points where the model diverges from the real Jolie. That jawline everyone`s talking about, well the angle you have it coming down from the ear at is fine, but it`s angling in the wrong direction! When I paused the anim. at the side frame I saw a jaw that actually pointed backwards before it sloped forward again. That`s where the masculinity`s coming in.

Still looking at the profile, I may be wrong, but I think that the distance from eyebrow peak to base of nose should be the same as that of base of nose to under the chin, at least that`s how it looks in the side view photo; but your model`s proportions give a more generous length to the lower face.

If you wouldn`t mind one last little point...

I think that the front part of the cheeks` foremost point comes lower than your model suggests. The hollow below the eye socket ought to come lower, which would give her more depth to the nose. It`s hard to tell from the small anim. but maybe the nose might benefit from being just a fraction less ski sloped.

Hope this helps, :)

Cheers,

R

[Doug Nicola]

Yes, that part about the jaw pointing backwards was exactly what I was trying to get at.

[Limey]

Cheers for all the comments.

Just got in from work, may try and work on it some more or may go down the pub, and play some snooker.

Thanks for the link to the image archive, nice hi res images there will come in handy when i reach the texturing stage.

Thanks for all the responses i wish to get the final result as photoreal and accurate as possible.

In the end she is going to be converted into an elf for a short animation that i have just started, but a friend said why don't i do some corny Lara Croft shots so i have taken his challenge.

I attached some wire captures

[Limey]

another Angle

[Limey]

Without Sub-Patch

[Limey]

Did a few upgrades, when i got back,
Mostly the forehead, chin, lips a bit on the jaw and so on.

And now it's 01:29 in the morning and time for bed.

Cheers

[Limey]

another one.

I think it is actually begining to look like her know, does anyone else agree or am i deluding myself.

[Hemp]

...Who's Angelina Jolie?

[Limey]

Hemp, you from around here?

Model with primary base colour map, but now i feel the model still needs alot of work.

I think the whole bottom of the face needs to be reworked including the chin, nose and lips.

And i think there is still something iffy about the brow, plus she looks cross eyed for some reason even though the eyes are looking straight forward.

So any help would be appreciated?

[Flat]

I think she's a little too 'squared', meaning her face doesn't show enough relief.
The cheeks look wrong when compared to a photograph, I've been sweating a lot over these parts and finally got something better when I tried to match the model to a photo taken at an angle (like this one : photo (http://www.trcomm.net/tombraider/images/ajwp/Angelina-Jolie49.jpg)), first by placing the eyes and mouth and then taking notes of where the model doesn't match the photo.
Nice skin, but it might be a tad brownish depending on the light color.


Phil, still messing with his own Angelina ;)

[Zarathustra]

I think she looks cross-eyed because the outside corners of the eyes are pulled back too far, giving the illusion from that angle that the eyes are looking at the nose.

If trying for Jolie, then yes, bring in the edges of the jaw. Otherwise, she's just a square faced woman. Not every woman is a perfect oval.

[Limey]

This is the reference image i am working from, i'm in the middle of changing the face and will show my update soon.

[Vank]

Aren't eyes just a nightmare to get right?

I'm guessing this is your first female because it looks like the one I'm currently making but how mine looked 3 months ago. All I can say is keep at it and everything does eventually fall into place.

You have picked an extremely difficult subject. Firstly modelling a female head is hard simply because in essense you are trying to capture beauty. Modelling a demon is a doddle because there is no right and wrong. Modelling a man is much easier too because they don't demand perfect lines and millimeter perfect geometry to look right. However modelling a female head, especially one who is meant to be attractive is a very difficult task. I can tell you from experience that the tiniest detail can make the difference between attractive and ugly.

Then you go and make things yet more difficult for yourself by trying to capture the likeness of a real person who everyone knows. This means you have absolutely no room for error. Anything that isn't exactly as it is in Jolie is going to be a mistake and that's hard. I started out trying to capture a likeness with my model and eventually decided to just let the model go free and take the shape it wanted to. It made the whole process far less frustrating and let me learn far more quickly.

Anyway, onto some help and advice and some good news. Jolie has a very distinctive face and this makes it easier for you to capture a likeness. However you need to really study her face and understand what makes Jolie look like Jolie.

Her most striking and unique feature is her lips and you haven't got them yet. Examine the flow of the line where her lips meet and the general contours of her lips all over. Jolie's lips bend and curve more than just about any woman I can think of. Your model appears to have lips like you think they should be rather than how Jolie's are. The same goes for the area between the lips and the nose. It is very prominent and deep in Jolie's face.

Also check her upper eyelids and how deep they are under her brow. This is unusual for an attractive woman but it's another very striking Jolie feature.

That's enough from me for now. All I can tell you is you still have a long road ahead of you, and you will no doubt tweak and rebuild every area of that face a dozen times before you are happy.

Good luck man, and don't give up. If you can get that model to look like Jolie, you will never have a problem with another head again.

[Flat]

Aren't eyes just a nightmare to get right?

...YES ! :rolleyes:
I've also been sweating a lot over the eyes in my version of the same, plus they are indeed very peculiar.

[artmarci]

looks like everyone is digging angelina jones again :P i wonder what c things about this...if you guys keep this up and use it in animations she will lose her job :P...hehe..ok enough bull keep it up and it looks good i think i will 2 make her if i am done with my work

[Vank]

Eyes are such a git because there are so many factors that need to be right before things fall into place.

There is the shape of the eye itself, then the eyelids, then the shape and size of the eyeball. You also need a reasonable ammount of geometry to get the lines to look natural and not stretched, and then there is the depth of the eye in the head. Not to mention the rotation of the eye. Are the corners properly positioned both horizontally vertically and along the Z axis. Or how about the position of the eyeball in the socket. Too far forward? To far left, up, down. Eeek.

Then the way the eyelids flow into the face can drastically alter the eye, so can the shape of the eyebrows, and how they meet the nose and cheeks. Eyelashes also change the look of an eye dependant on shape.

They are a nightmate because there are just so many factors that need to be right and if you overlook any you end up with buggy eyes or just plain unnatural looking eyes. Then you alter one thing and 5 others that were previously right now look wrong.

I found the hardest areas of the eye to get right are the upper eyelid, how it curves under itself when the eye is open, and then the way it blends into the temple. It's much easier to get this area right if you let your geometry flow across from the eyelid to the temple and not let it wrap around under the eye in a curve.

I've been working on a near photorealistic full female model now for around 3 months and I can't tell you the ammount of times I've had to rework the eyes, and each time I change the eyes it makes the nose look wrong. The shape of one directly affects the proportional accuracy of the other (that is if you are trying to work an attractive face.

Just yesterday I actually modelled the moisture that runs between the eyeball and the eyelids. BTW, that makes a big difference to the look of the eyes for anyone else out there trying for photorealism.

But get those lips right dood. You have missed the most obvious curves of her lips and it's her lips that make her look the way she does. I once did a 4ft square painting of Michelle Pheiffer that was photoreal and I just couldn't get the final piece to fall into place to make it look like her. I stared at that image for like 2 hours looking for what was wrong and couldn't see it. Then it just struck me, It was the shape in the centre of her top lip. Take a look at her face and you will see she also has a very unique lip shape, and I hadn't quite got it. On a four foot square image I moved her lip by about 2 millimeters and bingo, it suddenly looked exactly like her where it really didn't before. I suppose the point I'm making is when trying to do a likeness you absolutely must get the unique bits in place before everything else. Those key unique features will get you a likeness even if other areas are wrong.

[Rory_L]

That is the knack caricaturists have. Gerald Scarfe could draw Margaret Thatcher as a hammer or pair of scissors and still make it a `spitting image`of her.

Stick at it Limey: You`re almost there. If you have three quarter view photos they`ll help to place the features and give you a kind of `z-depth`check that the front and side views don`t afford you.

R

[groodwanderer]

yeah i never thought of that. I always wondered how those caricaturists did it. Hmmmm something to take into account for when I try to make a model depecting somebody.

And vank holy cow would love to see this model you are working on.

Limey keep at it I really don't have much else to say. Just to agree with what has allready been said.:D

[Limey]

Thanks fir all the interest, i haven't had much time to work on Jolie, so progress lately has been a little slow.

But i have a week off work coming up, so i shall work on it then.

I have already adjusted the eyes, the jaw, the cheeks, and i'm working on the nose at the moment.

I want the model to look like her with no textures, and i think i am getting very close now.

I will post a picture maybe later tonight or tommorow.

Thankyou for all your help and interest.

[Limey]

Another rotation, any help will be appreciated.

This is taking much longer than i wanted, but hopefully it will be worth it.

I am wanting to move on but something still bugs me.

Cheers.

[Limey]

The rotate animation is divix 5.0.3

Here are some pics

[Vank]

Hi again,

Is her neck really that chunky? That's a man's neck and a big man at that. She looks like she could head ram a wall and come off the better.

As for your comment that it's taking you longer than you really wanted. Well, that's the nature of the game bud. Hehe.

If that was my own model, and I was trying to capture Jolie, I'd consider I'd got the basic geometry in place, that the likeness was starting, and it was now time to really fine tune it. I'd consider my work about 50% done. It's a horrible thing to hear, I know, and I'm not saying you have done a bad job by any means. It's just I know from experience the ammount of work involved in doing something like this.

However, I'd move onto the next thing, and give yourself a break from the face. Work on the hair, or the rest of the body, or whatever else you can. When you come back to the face later, errors will suddenly scream out at you because you are looking at it with fresh eyes again.

With my own models I look at the entire modelling process in many stages for each area. First there is getting the geometry down. Then a bit of heavy tweaking to get a more accurate rendition of what I'm after. You have done these stages already.

Then it's time to start really fine tuning one area of the geometry at a time. I might spend a day on the eyes and nose, or the chin and mouth, and I'll not be satisfied until it's near perfect. I'll do this across the entire face for a few days. This is the stage you are at now and if it's frustrating you, then leave it alone for a while and come back to it. Otherwise you will go around in circles.

However, even after the above stage is complete, you still wont be where you want to be, you will continue to tweak and fiddle with that face until you go insane, hehe.

I think the best advice I can give you is just be patient. It will come, you are doing nothing wrong, you just need to keep working on it. This last bit, just finishing it off, will take as long as the rest of the work put together.

BTW, I'm no expert, but if there is one thing I know it's what it takes to capture beauty in a female face. It's tough. Making a female face isn't too hard. You have done that already. Making an attractive female face is really hard, because everything has to balance perfectly and there are no rules as to how. And, as I said before, trying to capture a specific female face, well, that's just the biggest ***** of them all.

Good Luck and don't lose patience.

[Limey]

a front.