PC's for Render Farm

[PC Docs]

One of our clients has asked us to create a render farm for them, I have the following questions:

1) Is it neccessary for the Node PC's to have big processing power or is memory more critical?

2) Which processor would be best for the node pc's AMD or Intel?

3) How difficult would it be for novice like ourselves to configure Lightwave to use the render farm (we have IT experience)?

4) Are graphics cards critical in the nodes or is it more important in the workstaition PC?

5) Would performance be better with 10 single nodes or 5 dual processor nodes?

I am thinking of rank mounted PC's (Nodes) connected via a KVM switch for maintenance with the Workstation standalone.

As I've said we have only a basic knowledge of lightwave but we would very much like to take on this project as it would be something different from out daily work of dealing with Microsoft servers and XP issues.

Thanks in advance for your replies. :D

[kopperdrake]

1) You need a decent chunk of memory, almost as much as in your main PC, if you're going to render large scene files. If your main PC has 1Gb and your scene files use all of this then your nodes are also going to need it! Otherwise they'll hit virtual memory and your hard drives will take a helluva knocking!

CPU...the faster the better, but you have to weigh up how much you want to spend. One of the best ways is to pick up second hand stuff for dirt cheap. Or old CPUs being given away for silly prices! If you spend £300 on a 3.6GHz Intel, when you can get 3 3.0GHz for the same price, then it looks better to go for the 3x3.0GHz. Bear in mind that you'll need a box for each of these CPUs too. Here in the UK a basic 1Gb 3.6GHz box will set you back about £700 inc TAX, a basic 1Gb 3.0GHz box would be about £500 inc TAX. That works out at £195 per GHz for the 3.6GHz option and £168 per GHz for the 3.0GHz option. You just have to do these kind of basic sums for each type of setup. Of course, it's a basic method but then we're not all computer whizzes.

2) AMD or Intel? I'm sure people will give reasons for going with either. AMD seem faster at rendering Volumetrics, whereas people seem to recommend Intel for raw number crunching. I don't think there's much in it tbh, but probably best to ask around more for more on this. I do know you can mix them in a network with no problems :)

3) Quite easy if you're using basic ScreamerNet II (well...I managed it and I'm not exactly a tech-head) ;) There are numerous network rendering managmement systems that are meant to make it all even easier :)

4) Graphics card only critical in the PC you're using to move geometry around on-screen. The nodes can have the most basic card in :)

5) For space saving then 5 duals would be great, but remember you'll have to double the RAM installed for a dual setup as it's split between 2 CPUs. Personally I'd go for 10 single CPUs if space isn't a premium. If one dies you've only lost 1 CPU :) You can control them all via VNC so monitors aren't a problem :)

Again, rackmounted is nice :) If you've got 10 nodes I'd seriously consider some kind of VNC setup though...much cheaper than a 10 node KVM! (Can you *get* 10 node KVMs?)

I'm sure there are people out there with loads of basic knowledge. I only run 5 PCs on a basic routed network. 1 is wireless in another room, 1 is the master, 2 are wired nodes on a KVM to the same monitor setup as the main PC, and one is controlled via VNC, sat in a corner :) I use basic ScreamerNet II (comes with Lightwave) but if I had to do loads of animation sequences then I'd definately consider a 3rd party piece of network rendering management software. I'm sure someone here will ive you advice on which one. They can pick up on missing frames and reassign them, kick in on machines when their screensaver kicks in, only work whilst the CPU is not busy etc. Much more intelligent than the out-of-the box ScreamerNet II :)

Hope this helps :)

Dunk

[Lightwolf]

Dunk basically said it all ;)

I've recently bought 5 quite cheap dual Athlon MPs (note, there basically not being manufactured anymore, and boards are hard to get), but they are much cheaper than Xeons, and not that much slower than my Dual Xeon 3.06GHz ws.

BTW, you can get KVMs that cascade, to up to 256 boxes ;)

Cheers,
Mike

[kopperdrake]

Ooh...I'm piecing together specs for a new main PC in the new year sometime and was wondering if it was worthwhile going for a dual PC. Athlon MPs? I hadn't even considered that! I'm pretty much thinking of a single 3.4 PC (for plugin compatibility), duals didn't seem worth it, but it'd be great to have something like those MPs for rendering out to! I'll have to keep my eyes open :D

Dunk

256 switches!!

<drool>

[trick]

...BTW, you can get KVMs that cascade, to up to 256 boxes ;)...

Why KVM's, just use RealVNC (http://www.realvnc.com) or TightVNC (http://www.tightvnc.com) , works fine for me... :)

[kopperdrake]

Because buttons with flashy lights are so much nicer :D

On the subject of VNC apps though, any recommendations? I've installed WinVNC, but I'm so new to this I could have installed a pigs-ear for all I know ;)

Dunk

[trick]

I don't know about WinVNC, but with Real- or TightVNC you can also control your farm over the internet very fast and easy. You can put your farm somewhere on the northpole and double clock your p4 3.6GHz to something like 7GHz :D :D

[Lightwolf]

Why KVM's, just use RealVNC (http://www.realvnc.com) or TightVNC (http://www.tightvnc.com) , works fine for me... :)
Of course it does ... until either the VNC server crashes ... or the box does. And you'll never know which of both happened unless you have a KVM to double check ;)

Cheers,
Mike

[trick]

In that case you'll always have to do a hard reboot, and if that does not help you'll have a headache anyway :D

[Lightwolf]

In that case you'll always have to do a hard reboot, and if that does not help you'll have a headache anyway :D
Actually, I've had cases where VNC was away for s couple of minutes or failed to connect, or nodes ran perfectly for many more days even though VNC was gone. A KVM is just a good physical backup to have...
Then again, our farm is on another floor, and we only have the KVM upstairs, so VNC keeps me from running around the building all the time :)

Cheers,
Mike

[JML]

YES MIKE
I know how you feel !
we have winvnc, and sometimes, vnc server crashes or vnc takes too long to answer because of a heavy render..
and I hear some people in the office trying to view the computer , "the computer crashed again" and I'm like "so how come I'm still rendering an animation on them right now?! "

99.99% of the time, the stupid vnc crashed but the boxx itself remain fine and working..

the renderboxxes are win2000 and I was trying to find out if we could use
windows remote desktop connection, but win2000 can't work with that. (I think)

my boss is going to get a switch boxx to "truly" see all those computer. that's going to be very nice.

[PC Docs]

Many thanks to you all for your help. Its proved invaluable.

[Jure]

I currenty have 4 computers in a farm and control them with a remote desktop connection in WinXP.

I think no one yet mentioned a possibility of having diskeless render farm. So you'd only need to buy mobos with processors and you save money on hard drives and OS software. I have been thinking of doing that with my render farm but then you also need to have giga switch and it must all run on linux. Don't know if LW8 screamer works on linux yet though.

Other than that, I would strongly recommend having 3rd party app to manage your renders. I'd suggest ButterflyNet render which is in my experience the most easy to set up and has the most features.

[Lightwolf]

I have actually though about a diskless farm, but I run other apps on the farm as well (Digital Fusion), and sometimes it is good to have some hd space to swap out to.
Also, HDs aren't _that_ expensive, especially since you don't need a large hd.
GB switches aren't a problem anymore either, and don't add much to the price (8 port for roughly 100€ or so).

Cheers,
Mike

[Lamont]

The replies you have gotten so far are on par with what I would have said. But I vouch one more time for ButterFly Net. I wish I had it 3 years ago...

[Draven]

I wouldn't go with AthlonMPs because their lack of SSE2 support makes them slower in LW.

With the impending release of 64-bit extended XP and LW to run on it, I'd build Athlon64/Opteron systems.