Human Model WIP - Hayrettin

[hesido]

This is my second head, and first ever body. :)

I have been mainly active in the feature requests part so far, but with all those suggestions I make there, I felt obliged to share what I'm doing with LW so I don't sound like a 3d-disabled who wants everything done by the software :=)

http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrettin-rendera.jpghttp://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrettin-rendera2.jpg

update:
http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayripose3.jpg

[Kreck]

where is his bolls ???:DDD

[Kreck]

i'm just joking works is grate !!! i like it

[Night--Hawk]

are you sure this is your first body? looks really great!

[hairy_llama]

nice work.
If that is your first body ever then you are beyond genious. I assume its your first in LW but not in other packages?

[hesido]

Hi thanks for your encouraging comments!

@kreck, he has no hands, and I am not giving him things he can't handle :)

@night--hawk and hairy_lama: It actually is my first body :) I am familiar to CG from the Amiga days, lot of DeluxePaint, Brilliance experience :) And I used Imagine to make a few mirror speheres on a checkered ground :D (and a custom car for the Skidmarks game, that actually worked :) )

I am in no way a genius but a bit obsessive! (And I can be quite dumb at times when solving modelling problems, but that's between us!) Hence, this is taking so long, for example, I finished the feet in 12 work hours spanning 3 days. (My next one may be faster but then, but then I am not so sure!) (good think I can alter the same feet for my next trials ;) )

[adrian]

That's excellent. The only thing that stands out as not quite right is the ridge going up the centre of his calves.

To get the rest of the body looking so good I'm assuming you have studied anatomy to some degree?

Adrian.

[hesido]

I am a medical faculty graduate, did some anatomy lessons which helped (at least I have a basic understanding of muscles, tendons and bones left, after some years, you forget.)

Then, keeping a Sobotta Anatomy Atlas handy is always a bonus!

edit: thanks for pointing out about the line in the calf.. I realized it shouldn't go all the way up, maybe half way thru..

[adrian]

Yep, half way up to give it that nice horse-shoe shape... just like mine if you don't mind me boasting - well I'm getting into serious shape for skiing in Feb :)

Adrian.

[hesido]

@adrian: Have a nice holiday :)

"Fixed" the calve.. edit: and tweaked the front muscles of the leg..

http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrettin-rendera3.jpghttp://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrettin-rendera4.jpg

[jamesl]

I agree. His balls are missing.

j

[Skunk]

Well, he doesn't need any balls (or a penis) unless we'll be seeing 'em in the end (now I know some of you'all out there want to, but for the rest of us.. ;))
-SKUNK

[jamesl]

unless we'll be seeing 'em in the end
-SKUNK


Ha ha! Seeing 'em in the end! What are YOU thinking about?? You're funny!

j

[hesido]

Hi guys :=)

Hayrettin is back, this time he's got the whole bunch, erm, all except but, you know, the hot topic in this thread, lol

http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrettin-renderb1.jpg
http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrettin-renderb1b.jpg
http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrettin-renderb1c.jpg

The arms look fine from behind and top, and directly from front, but sth puts me to shame on the front-right view, and I don't know what that is :)

I can leave it as is if someone cannot point it out the way I understand, I'd prefer a photoshop edit, I am not that good in understanding people hahah..

[Skunk]

Ha ha! Seeing 'em in the end! What are YOU thinking about?? You're funny!j
As in: if he's gonna wear clothes, why model a penis? the 'bulk' he did put was good, otherwise he'll look like a girl, but any precise modelling would be superflous (O.o, big word!)
Great model, btw, ppl. are **** hard.
-SKUNK

[hesido]

Thanks everybody for the comments :) I am surpised at the controversy surrounding the stand-in geommetry for the penile area!

Here are the finalizing renders..
Finalizing renders.. (http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrettin-rendercomp1.jpg)

I may move onto rigging him, but that will be too much of a task for me. Maybe I make myself a real simple model to learn rigging.. But then, what would be the best approach to rig this? Any resources you can share? Help would be appreciated!

[Skunk]

Nicely done. Would you mind sharing your lighting/set technique. It's very nice.
-SKUNK

[hesido]

Hi Skunk thanks..

The lighting is all radiosity dependant, and it is very simple, with a single distant light, and a backdrop light blue to lighter blue gradient , and a ground similar hue to the backdrop colors, with fog (non-linear 1, havent checked others :) ) using bakground color option on.

The radiosity is monte carlo , 2x6 , single bounce, the enhanced medium AA compensates for the noise, while leaving a tad small noise which makes the image look nicer I guess :)

For the skin, I just put TB's Fake Skin with not much playing, just to ensure the guy doesn't look extra plastic, temporary solution of course ;)

After this, erm, I do some photoshop level adjusts :=) I have standardized it, I press a single button for it, and then play with the opacity of one of the extra (duplicate) layers if need be, to mix between the orginal render and the level adjusted layer :)


Update: Reduced shoulder size, fixed albow angle...

http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrettin-renderb3.jpg

Any ideas for rigging him???

[mbunds]

How did you do it? Sculpting someting like this by manipulating polys, with such exact detail, is a frightening prospect in the least, to me anyway! You are truly a Michelangelo among digital sculpters!

[hesido]

mbunds, thanks for your really kind words :) Wish I was good enough to justify what you say tho :) There are "insane" guys doing real crazy modeling work, be in this forum or in other forums that puts this model to shame...

[ThriJ]

I must say you have impressive modeling skills. I think there are more models that this one puts to shame then the other way around.

But, it is hard to really judge the quality of this model without seeing the polygon mesh.

[hesido]

Thrij, thanks..

Here is the poly mesh, hope it doesn't ruin the "magic" :=)

http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrinfwire.png

I have used loops at bending places so he will be easier to rig, speaking of which, I still couldn't get an opinion on how I should go about rigging him :)

[ThriJ]

Excellent work, the polygon flow is outstanding. At this point in the modeling there is not much one could criticize. None of the proportions seem to be over exaggerated. I can’t say any thing is off because someone out there could have such a form, so any adjustments would be a matter of preference of style.

With that said, to me the chest seems a little flat in proportion to the shoulders. Even someone with little chest definition would have more rounding in connection to the rest of the body. The hands still need some defining. Right now the over all form looks good but be careful not to over accentuate the muscles. Remember the figure should be in a resting neutral state. Some people get a little carried away when they get to the detailing process and forget they are modeling a human and not a bulk of anatomy stuck together.

Considering how accurate this model is I wonder what references you or using?

I can’t say much more then that because I have never modeled a complete male from head to toe myself. What experience I have comes from modeling the female form, non-humans and a few human heads.

As far as rigging goes weight maps are a must. Some call them tedious, but they are also precise which is a must for a high polygon model like this. Another must is smart skinning which is also tedious. But, smart skinning is the only way to get accurate muscle movement. And a good IK setup is important as well. However, all that is obvious and easy to say, but difficult to setup.


Anyway keep up the great work!

[hesido]

Hi Thrij,

Thanks for your kind words..

I will consider your advice.. I may not play with pectoral muscles anymore tho, I'll see how it goes in an "internal test" ;) . I understand about the muscles having to be relaxed, maybe the muscles in the upper leg seem to contracted, with a morphmap I can give some rest to those... The problem with the hand might be that it is in full extension and may go away when rigged (or there are other problems that I couldn't understand)

Thanks for the tips with IK.. I am scared already, and may not start it at all, I feel exhausted...

For reference, I used Sobotta, an anatomy atlas, a Loomis figure for the base proportions displayed in the background (b/w pic with no shades, no detail) , and many bodybuilder pics I found on the internet for the detail.. Of course Hayrettin wouldn't be as muscular as they were, so I ommitted the off the charts hypertrophies! For the hand I looked at my own hand, didn't lay out any photos of it tho.. One hard thing was to check out many different variations of musles at different angles, none of which were in neutral posture.. I begged for a 3d.sk membership those times.. I can register any time, I heard they have nice reference photos.. For the flow of the geommetry, I used my own logic of how skin folds, tried to keep the flow parallel to skin folds at all times.

For the base stance, I took the advice from a friend who is doing modeling for a feature film (the 45 degree arms, not fully extended elbow, and hand looking down), but I wouldn't know how that would result in a LW rig. (Tho, the 45 degree arm seems a good idea because the shoulders start leveling up just only afterwards)

I hope I have the courage to rig him. I don't want to texture him because I might want to change the geommetry or simply the poly flow to overcome problems I could only face while rigging him..

I may give her a virtual girlfriend anytime, they'd be looking eachother really stiff tho, if not rigged!

[ThriJ]

Have you had any success with rigging? You haven’t posted any new updates lately.

[hesido]

I am experimenting. I have chosen to make skelegons following the famous 18 lesson tutorial by digiwonk (www.digiwonk.com) , I am having pitch - heading problems with some bones as I have arbitrary angles for arms and fingers unlike the T-pose in the tutorial, and RPR causes problems so I am experimenting workarounds (adding extra small inactive parent bones etc.). But this is not a problem really.

Also, the shoulder deformation is proving to be a real challenge for me and I am trying out solutions for it.

Also I hear 8.2 has some bugs which I really can't tell as this is the first time I am ever rigging so I don't know what goes wrong where (like split bone, I didn't know it was buggy so I found a work-around for it thinking it was my bad, I learned it was just fine in 8.01 :) )

It is good to know you remember him, thanks Thrij :=)

I'll post some updates next week. I am not hurrying :)

[Alex Rooth]

Great model. My only comments/suggestion re the anatomy would be that maybe the arms are a little short and there is not enough bulk on the palm of the hand (particularly in relation to the mass of the elbow joint). But, really good work...

Alex

[hesido]

Thanks Alex :) I'll consider making those changes..

I am working on the bones setup, and boy this takes quite some time, trying different settings, bones etc.

http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayririgprev1.jpg

I made him wave for the moment. Uses as single weightmap for the arms, I'll add one for each leg and work on the current weight map. I think I nailed the positions of the bones for the arm (that shoulder deformation was making me crazy) but I feel this one is ok, as the characters often don't stay hyper-extended like this one.

[ThriJ]

That’s looking pretty good. Weight maps can be a real pain sometimes. I have got the best results by only using them as filters for the bone deformation, it’s precise with less pain. Have you had any trouble with Smart Skinning or Joint Morphs? If so, I have developed a method that makes the process a lot easier.





Wish I could have responded sooner. :(

[etobiason]

Umm... are you gonna give him eyes...?

[mgreenway]

Very Nice work.

[hesido]

Thanks guys..

I have ditched the weightmaps altogether, And started using some muscle bones using custom simple expressions to get those pecs working.

I can't devote time for him tho anymore. Future updates will be very scarce, if not never.

I know I should have dealt with the eyes already... But I haven't, and I don't have an idea when.

http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayriarmtest3.gif

I know it is nowhere near perfect.. But it will get the job done, that is to learn some rigging.. Dealing with realistic deformations for a realistic object is too much work for an obsessive guy like me, but I am learning when to decide "this is is the most you can do for the time being."

@Thrij: I'll try adding morphmaps, if I have a problem, you're the first I'll ask help for :)

[hesido]

After letting him stay in my harddisk idle for months, I decided to finish the rigging (well, sort of)

From my last post I redid the shoulder at least 3 times. I added simple bones for the rest of it. The torso/leg connection was one hard thing to tackle, I managed to get it done at acceptable levels. The rigging is not up to the standards of the model but it saves the day. So here he is:
http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayripose3.jpg

[14 and famous]

His knees are bit thin

[Doran]

Interesting... It looks pretty great to me except for the collar bone which seems to bend at the end of the arm lift. If you put a shirt on him no one would even notice. :O)

[hesido]

Hi thanks for the comments.

That arm lift gif anim is now obsolete. I now use a morphmap to 'dissolve' the collarbone so that effect is less pronounced. I know it looks silly that way :) I should put a new animgif. But I am afraid you will find more problems :D

I need a morphmap for knees and elbows also but I stop here, had enough of rigging :=)

I don't see the knees being thin as a big major problem, I consider it a personal reference, or is it really anatomically impossible? I hope it should be possible to have knees like him.. I hope :=)

[Chrisstian01]

whatever that is so not your first model, give me a break!

[hesido]

Calm down. I didn't say it was my first model. I had done a head before. But this is my first human body. I had earlier done a soccerball out of a tutorial, a robot arm with an original design (non-organic), one male head (organic).

So I know how to push an pull points, I am familiar with human anatomy (I am an MD), I had all the time in the world to do it (e.g. the hands took more than 3 days), I like to observe, I like to know a program inside out before I move on to doing something, I knew just about every modelling command I needed to know before I started this. edit: + I used to draw A LOT with pencil on plain paper, human figures/faces mainly.

And if this is going to make you happy, this is just about my limits. If I ever do my 10th human, it is not going to be 10 times better than this.

edit:
My advise to you is to observe if you ever want your models to look good. If you don't, it doesn't matter if you do 200 human models. You'll get really fast by the 200th, but it will still look wrong.

[hesido]

Update:
http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/hayrinewposes.jpg

very important disclaimer: I have some idea on lighting and photoshop post processing for colors. I had earlier done a head, fully textured. Tho this doesn't have any textures, my earlier experience really helped me to get a render like this. This is not my first lightwave render. This is my first rig but I have worked countless hours on it, and for the record, it can't do all the moves. :rolleyes:

[Chrisstian01]

I would very much like to see your method of modelling and how you accomplished it. I am an engineer and have been working in lightwave for over 4 years and am just now able to make something that even holds a little human resemblance. How did you accomplish this?

[hesido]

As much as I'd like to post a tutorial, I haven't that time anymore. I'll shelve my CG hobby for the next 4-5 months to provide space for studying.

To explain a bit, I used poly-by-poly modelling for most of it, the face, body, arms, legs. Only for hands and feet I used box modeling.

Poly by poly modeling is very, very staight-forward. I start by putting some poly's around the eye, and afterwards did lots of open-edge extrudes, instantly getting new polygons from edges of old polygons. After I have a basic shape, I start pulling pushing points around. I check the creases on my face / body and then arrange the polygon flow with lots of spinquads. If necessary, I add detail either by getting 1 polygon row connect to 3, with no triangles added, or 1 polygon row connect two to by adding some triangles, where appropriate. Just standard poly-by-poly modeling.

I use a LOT of scaling / moving / rotating with fall-offs. (See numerical panel). They can instantly fix proportions without going thru hundreds of points all by hand.

For the basic proportions of hayrettin, I used a Andrew Loomis male figure in the background (only for the basic proportions). Then I tweaked them using falloffs.

I always keep a hand mirror by my side, I check how parts connect with eachother. Best is to keep two mirrors so you can see back of the head too or comfortably look at yourself from all directions.

I searched the net to find tons of body builder photos and kept my Sobotta Anatomy Atlas handy for all occasions.

I have found an anim gif I did earlier displaying the finger modeling process, but it follows box modelling principles. I can do a time-lapse animgif for his face later, but I checked I have overwritten the mouth modeling part. Normally I keep all the crucial steps as seperate objects. Saved my life quite often.

http://www.hesido.com/display/cgtalk/handanimwip.gif