Request List For Architectural Visualisation

[ali]

A request list specified on Architectural Visualisation would be nice here.
By the way, I will look for a way t ochange my LW licence with another package, unless Newtek doesn't ignore ArchViz users until LW9. Maybe they consider this list. I also use Autocad, Autodesk Viz. And these have many features that I can't be without, especially in big projects. I don't think the wishlist here needs a miracle. Because, some of these features are included even in some free 3d applications.

Here is the list:
-Instances
-Blocks. (You select objects and convert them to block. You can place hundreds of this block. Whenever you rearrange your block, hundreds of copies change also)
-External References. (Imagine you import an object file into your LWO file, and copy it several times. When you change the source object file, all the imported copies of this file change.)
-Orthographic Rendering (This can be done in Blender 3d that is freeware)
-DWG Import. (Also Alias included DWP Import in Maya)
-DWG Link Manager. (A link manager would be nice, as in VIZ; any modification in cad file, and the changes can be uploaded to your LW file easily)
-More Interactive tools.
-Parametric objects are where 3d industry are going to. Maybe Newtek has to rewrite LW. But I think if NT ignores what CAD applications are today, LW will be a midrange software in five years.
-And many more I can't remember now...

Alias Wavefront (Maya), Autodesk (VIZ, MAX), Maxon (Cinema4D) see the way 3D softwares have to go. But Newtek doesn't. Newtek should make many improvements for architectural visualisation. Or make an explanation that they are going to be an advanced character animation package and ignore Arch Viz in the next versions, and we should stop waiting.

[Silkrooster]

I agree on some of your list. I think Newtek prides it self on layout more than modeler. At least that the way it seams. Take for example the manual, layout is always first. Anyways, I was thinking some people may not understand some of your lists, unless they have used some type of cad program before.
Blocks - These are a reference to the orginal object, by using references, you save space on file size by using only one object and all copies or blocks are pointers to the original object.
External references - Lightwave already does this. When you load an object in layout, that object is updated when changed in modeler.
DWG import - Your right this is a definate need. Layout should import any 3d file including CAD that can be thrown at it. After all Layout is a renderer.
Before Lightwave can handle CAD files, though it may be necessary to rewrite the renderer to be able to handle solid objects. As far as I know Lightwave is only a surface renderer.
Silk

[Hervé]

DWG import... ! Nice , but I am afraid it would cost an eye for NT... :)

[ingo]

......... LW will be a midrange software in five years.
.........

Alias Wavefront (Maya), Autodesk (VIZ, MAX), Maxon (Cinema4D) see the way 3D softwares have to go. But Newtek doesn't. Newtek should make many improvements for architectural visualisation. ....

Well, Lightwave IS a midrange software already, comparable to the overpriced Cinema4D. And the last thing we want is an LW that is as complicated as 3DS Max. So if you like the other programs more, just buy them, no need for Newtek to follow everything and everyone (i still use FormZ for modelling btw). My only wish is that Layout and Modeller are one program so that we get a more streamlined and easier to use app.

[Exception]

Although I am all for improvement of LW for arch-viz, as i am an arch visualiser myself, I don;t really see many suggestions of you that are actually tuly beneficial or lacking. Let me explain:

-Instances

Isnt that more or less what a clone in Layout is? Only problem is that you can't change surface parameters of individual slones, but that will soon come, I'm sure.

-Blocks. (You select objects and convert them to block. You can place hundreds of this block. Whenever you rearrange your block, hundreds of copies change also)

That is what an object is, sin't it? When you place an object in layout 100 times, and change the object itself, all the copies in layout change too, correct?
I would not like to have Autocad's extremely outdated mideaval object and drawing hierarchy in Lightwave. Autocad is actually wuite seriously outdated, being passed left and right by Vectorworks, solidworks and so on.

-External References. (Imagine you import an object file into your LWO file, and copy it several times. When you change the source object file, all the imported copies of this file change.)

This already happens.. I don't really see the difference between the previous two either...

-Orthographic Rendering (This can be done in Blender 3d that is freeware)

Yes, true, should be in. Although free plugins available that do this, and easy tricks possible too (cam far away).

-DWG Import. (Also Alias included DWP Import in Maya)

Why? Use Accutrans 3D. Much better than a LW importer could ever be. Complete control over detail and resolution... all that for 20$.

-DWG Link Manager. (A link manager would be nice, as in VIZ; any modification in cad file, and the changes can be uploaded to your LW file easily)

Hum... I don;t think that is too handy is it? I mean, extreme amount of import export plugin writing and database things, only for people who work with Autocad... I don't know... Autocad files and LW files are so different you usually build them up from scratch anyway.

-More Interactive tools.

Such as?

-Parametric objects are where 3d industry are going to. Maybe Newtek has to rewrite LW. But I think if NT ignores what CAD applications are today, LW will be a midrange software in five years.

Lightwave is NOT Cad!


I would rather suggest things like the following:
-Radiosity solution-to-3D-mesh, radiosity solution saving
-Faster radiosity, more methods...
-Adaptive polygon tesselation for special Lightscape-like render capabilities
-Ability to individually turn on and off direct and indirect light from a given light source
-Dynamic booleans in Layout for Sections
-Parametric bumps (for edges of brick walls)
-Better large resolution rendering, screamernet single frame distribution
-Bevel saves (for windows and doors), or door and window maker
-Light attenuation controleable by graph (such as fog now)

[spud_q]

Hi Exception,

If you want dynamic boolians go to flay.com and search for Shifts boolian texture or something like that. It works great!

[theo]

-Instances

Isnt that more or less what a clone in Layout is? Only problem is that you can't change surface parameters of individual slones, but that will soon come, I'm sure.



You are so off base here it isn't even funny Exception. Instances are THE thing with almost all types of graphics and animation software from Adobe Illustrator to Flash. And to not have instancing within Modeller is a crying shame. Instancing would theoretically allow for a vast number of similar objects that take up the space in memory of just ONE. As well as dynamic updating of the instance field based on changes to the MASTER instance would translate to incredible time-savings.

Clones in Layout are just WAY to limiting to be viewed as real instancing.

Here is a basic example. Let us say that you have spent several days modelling a complex building and have built custom door frames throughout many of the offices based on the architects specs. Well, the client insists that the door frames have the wrong profile on the molding and the architect has made an error. Well you come to the rescue and within a matter of minutes update the MASTER instance with the changes and tada all of the other instances in the field are dynamically updated. This is a SIMPLE example.

Instancing would AWESOME for special and quite complicated surfacing in other realms of modelling as well.

[Ade]

There have been much more thorough posts on archi features for Lightwave. one was a pain staking summary of averyones suggestions..Does anyone know the url of it?

[ingo]

.........Here is a basic example. Let us say that you have spent several days modelling a complex building and have built custom door frames throughout many of the offices based on the architects specs. Well, the client insists that the door frames have the wrong profile on the molding and the architect has made an error. Well you come to the rescue and within a matter of minutes update the MASTER instance with the changes and tada all of the other instances in the field are dynamically updated. This is a SIMPLE example. ....

That is actually what the clone tool does, the only difference is that every clone requires memory like the original in Layout, not only the original object.

[Ade]

Save render calculations like in vray where u render in a test and then when u render at a higher res the calculations are already done...

Best way you could add arhi features to lw - give us vray.

[Exception]

You are so off base here it isn't even funny Exception. Instances are THE thing with almost all types of graphics and animation software from Adobe Illustrator to Flash. And to not have instancing within Modeller is a crying shame. Instancing would theoretically allow for a vast number of similar objects that take up the space in memory of just ONE. As well as dynamic updating of the instance field based on changes to the MASTER instance would translate to incredible time-savings.


AH, Instances in MODELER, noone mentioned that...

Clones in Layout are just WAY to limiting to be viewed as real instancing.

Well, they are exactly what you describe, right? It is one object file on the harddisc that you can iterate thousands of times and when updating that one object, all instances will change accordingly... it also saves a lot of memory. Exactly what you just described. I know the clones are not perfect, but to say they are not even close to instances is not true.


[QUOTE=theo]Here is a basic example. Let us say that you have spent several days modelling a complex building and have built custom door frames throughout many of the offices based on the architects specs. Well, the client insists that the door frames have the wrong profile on the molding and the architect has made an error. Well you come to the rescue and within a matter of minutes update the MASTER instance with the changes and tada all of the other instances in the field are dynamically updated. This is a SIMPLE example.


I would see more in parametric modeling or a modifier stack for that kind of stuff in modeler.
If you can't be bothered to put it in an object and clone that window or doorframe in layout then it must not really be so important. If you do it like that, you have exactly what you are saying. The downside is the placement possibilities in layout are a bit less exact, but good enough anyway.

[BeeVee]

And the clone tool in Layout doesn't require the same amount of memory for each clone. Each one does take a little yes, but not the same amount as the original object.

B

[Lightwolf]

And the clone tool in Layout doesn't require the same amount of memory for each clone. Each one does take a little yes, but not the same amount as the original object.

This only seems to be the case when working interactively though, not when rendering (unless this changed in the last few releases...).
Otherwise there would be no reason to use HDInstance...
Cheers,
Mike

[kopperdrake]

Having just spent a few days in modeller, I would like to see cursor guides that follow the cursor, which can snap to points already lain down. Sometimes it's a pain to have to go into a point's attributes, copy its x position, then back to the point you want and set value to that position.

Unless there's an easier way?

Also integrated cad tools like rotation. I know there are various plugins, but I'd like to see realtime visual feedback by way of these cusor guides (not sure what the correct terminology is here? Helpers? Guides? Funky bright blue lines that move and let things snap to things, and perhaps yellow funky lines that show what will happen when you finally do ove something?

I know...ramble, but it's be nice :)

Oh, and thanks to Newtek for the Limited Region rendering - that's solved the lens convergence problem as far as I can tell :)

Dunk

[Ade]

Intergrate Vray, network scene modelling, Photon mapping, faster LW GI, instances, DWG file support, Modelling Gizmos's, able to edit an object with numeric info long afetr its creation, History, ngons, micro displacment mapping support.

[Hervé]

NOoooo, instances are mucho better than clones... try a chicken run loosing 2000 feathers on his way.... totally UN-Managable...!

With 3,000 clones... (I've tried on a dual proc. with 2 GB Ram) selecting one object takes then 1 min., or better open scene editor, select 500 of them.... 10 min. Open surface editor... 5 Min.... and so LW becomes a "no working" solution...

feature request again.... emitters can emit simple objects... please... (feathers, snow flakes, rain drops (F-prime), etc... :D

[Lude]

I don't know about you guys but I would buy an expansion pack if there was one say LightViz or something.

And when you installed it you got loads of new architectural based tools and render options.

Many might think this is a terrible idea – but there’s only so much u can get in a $1695 program and I could stomach say another $400-$500 if it meant we could get new features in the next 9 months or so.

But I mostly just need the usual faster GI and AA options.

Lude

[Hervé]

... and I 'll follow U on that one Lude... :)

Lightwave 8.3 + the ArchiLight-Pack 1.0 = winning combo ! Get it Now for only $499.. !! You wont regret it !! No deposits & no return... :D

[toma]

I would prefer generic tools, instancing is good for doors, leaves, grass, spaceship, anything…

but I think that archiviz is a good place to experiment because it needs everything CGI needs, and although it's not very sexy, it's very common to deal with huge database, high res rendering, complex compositing, photoreal lighting and so on…

toma

[toma]

BTW, even better than object instancing, something I would love to see is "scene instancing" :

imagine you have a tree. it is a big tree so you spilt it in 2 layers (trunk + leaves), you want him to wave in the wind so you set up a simple rig , and it works with some nulls (lets say 3), for rendering purpose you exlude it from radiosity and you make a custom light rig for this tree (8 lights)…

now you need 10 clones of this tree… and you have to deal with 80 more lights, 30 nulls and so on…

wouldn't it be nice to just load the original rig and put placeholders in the scene you want those trees ? those "scenes in the scene" would appear in the scene editor like objects, and maybe there would be a way to edit there subobjects…

it would work the same for cars : why having a total control of the weels when you just want them to follow the road ?

cheers,
toma

[Hervé]

Toma... are U moving your tree branches and leaves with a bone rig...? I advise U to use a simple procedural displacement controlled by a null + a nice falloff for the trunk to stay stable.... but I got to say I used that rig technique before too.... but if you have lotsa tree, it makes the scene consuming more ram....

Procedural displacement is better coz if u have many trees, the wind wave goes thru them well... windy well... like nice waves, but you can go wild as well... if you need a storm... he he :D

remark, I've learn that trick from the Pawel Olas tree designer site

www. polas.net

Cheers Toma
Et hop , un p'tit coup d'gnôle... ahhh c'est pas d'refus...! ;)

[toma]

hello Hervé !

I use the displacement for the leaves and "general waving" too, but in this exemple, I was thinking of a bend deformer and it needs two nulls, so I can make the tree wave and bend in the wind !

but maybe tree is not the better exemple because there is no need of precise movement, the car's weels may be a better case because you need a hierarchy of 5 objects per car although the 4 weels could just have a "sub-object" statut…

cheers (avec du café ce matin ;))
toma

[Hervé]

i see what you mean... i was just saying so...

il te reste une tasse pour moi...? :D

[toma]

encore une petite cafetière et hop, au boulot !

I'm a bit lazy en ce moment…

toma ;)

[3dworks]

what i really would like to see is a sort of 'RPC for the poor' (and for mac users!) built-in feature. in architectural viz many times you map people, trees or car images on a plane, set the texture up with a clip map, and orient this textured plane to the camera (billboarding). a lot of steps are required to accomplish this, and you have to do it for each single map. any sort of streamlined built-in function to support this would be awesome!

the way i could imagine it: an 'add image mapped plane' dialog where i can choose size, orientation and texture maps! cross planes for better faked shadow rendering are generated automatically, you may have to choose between 4, 6 8 planes. all image mapped planes are handled as simple objects or inside a special browser with a small preview of the used image (maybe a subset of the scene editor?). this would allow a fast placement or replacement and would be extremely useful in the case of people crowds or complex vegetation setups.

another interesting feature would be automatic geometry generation of the image shapes with or without (using a color or luminosity threshold dialog) alpha maps. the shape of a tree or of any image mapped object could be generated as a 2d-mesh with variable density. no need for clip maps, better visual feedback and more shading flexibility would be the big advantages of this feature!

i hope really this suggestion can make it into a future LW release!

markus groeteke

[3dworks]

....
-External References. (Imagine you import an object file into your LWO file, and copy it several times. When you change the source object file, all the imported copies of this file change.)
...

well thought, that's one thing missing inside the LW workflow: a sort of 'replace object but keep surfaces please' option :-)

as a result of the general workflow in the visualization process many times there are last minute changes to the geometry of objects. in lightwave, objects and surfaces are embedded into one file - which is good and bad at the same time. it's bad when you change thegeometry inside an external modeler (we use formz) and reload it into the scene: all surface settings are lost. of course i can store the surface as a preset and re-assign it, but it's a great mess to change dozens of surface settings in the last minute. that's why it would be great if we could reload or change the geometry without touching any surface settings! maybe...??

markus groeteke

[toma]

well thought, that's one thing missing inside the LW workflow: a sort of 'replace object but keep surfaces please' option :-)

if you use the exact same name in FZ and LW, you can replace the surface this way :

in modeler, close all objects and then load the modified object (the one with the good mesh). change your surface editor to scene mode and load the old object (the one with the good surfaces). all you have to do is to select the first surface in the surface editor and press the down arrow untill all the surfaces have been updated.
now your new geometry has the same surface settings than the old one.

2cts ;)

toma

[3dworks]

if you use the exact same name in FZ and LW, you can replace the surface this way :

in modeler, close all objects and then load the modified object (the one with the good mesh). change your surface editor to scene mode and load the old object (the one with the good surfaces). all you have to do is to select the first surface in the surface editor and press the down arrow untill all the surfaces have been updated.
now your new geometry has the same surface settings than the old one.

2cts ;)

toma

toma, thanks for this tip :-)

anyway, if you work with separate LWO files for each project layer (we do and normally we have around 20-30 layers) it becomes little bit messy...

i might add that i'm used to the electric image workflow, where the materials are basically defined inside the scene file and the geometry is stored as separate files. the nice thing in EIAS is that is possible to store materials inside the geometry files too, but within the scene you can override these settings.

markus