books: Inside Lw8 vs. Killer Tips & others [Archive]

FranK10

09-02-2004, 05:38 AM

Hi to all. I'm new to LW, and want to learn more, specially in Characters-Humans. So I want to buy some books, but I would like to know more on them (I have already read the other threads).

1) I want to buy
Inside Lw8 (I read that it is the more complete one)
and I want to know if
Lw8 Killer Tips (always from Dan Ablan)
contains more information on Lw or if it is not worth buying it having the Inside one.

2) Same question for the other books:
Lightning
Texturing
1001 Tips
Will I learn significantly more with these also, after Inside one?

I know answer these questions is hard, but any help in my choice would be very appreciate.

Definitely I don't want to buy so many books if they have redundant information.
After all, buying all the books, I would spend near 200 € (near 200$) here in Europe, from Amazon-France.

Thanks
Francesco

chromatic

09-02-2004, 05:52 AM

Why don't you just read the manual? :P

There's a wealth of information on the Internet out there. I've bought a dozen books about LightWave the last couple of years. I came to the conclusion that it's fun to read them all but that you can also get similar info from the Net. Most of the books contain step-through tutorials. One of my favorite tutorial writers definately is Dave Jerrard.

I'm at a stage where I don't want to buy anymore books. I wanna try it out myself. If I get stuck with something hard I'll just post it somewhere on these forums. Some of the authors even mention to just play around with LW inbetween jobs. Kinda like an exploration trip :)

Hell, I've been toying around with the Surface Editor and it still amazes me what kind of effects I can get with it!

If I where you I wouldn't buy any of those books. Browse around on the Internet. Find some online tutorials (there are some really good ones out there!)))

Edbittner

09-02-2004, 05:55 AM

Frank10,
Although I do not have the texturing book, I would HIGHLY recomend Dans book, Inside LW 8, and the 1001 Tips & Tricks. I've been reading Dans books since LW5.6 and they just got better and better. And if you don't get what you need from those,(doubtful), LW8 KillerTips gives a LW user everything that should get you started with an efficient workflow.

retinajoy

09-02-2004, 05:58 AM

Inside Lightwave 8 is a great all rounder and IMO should be your first purchase, as it covers most things in LW and does it well. A lot better than the previous Inside LW books and the 1st few chapters are great for total beginners.

The Lighting book by Boughen is great for beginners to advanced and I highly recommend it as lighting is very important in 3D. Leighs book on texturing is perfect for those new to LW, or anyone who has holes in their texturing knowledge.

I gave LW8 Killer tips a good check out, but personally I would get 1001 tips instead which I have found to be useful.

Plus if you have any dosh left over, 'CGI Filmaking - The creation of Ghost Warrior' is inspiring.

Happy spending :D

FranK10

09-02-2004, 06:35 AM

If I where you I wouldn't buy any of those books. Browse around on the Internet. Find some online tutorials (there are some really good ones out there!)))

Maybe because you have already the basis & you are confortable with LW also because of your dozen books...
Anyway it's true there is something very interesting in the Net, but it's a lot spending time to search & find all you need.
Is there an exahustive list of these sites-tutorials out there?

About the manuals, I find it some reference material, not very useful to learn 'how to do'.
Besides, all that content material (enormous) that come with LW8 where is explained? Do you need to try and try to know something?

Ok, It seems I'll check out Texturing & Lightning, (with Inside).

I'm not sure with the two ones with Tips:

I gave LW8 Killer tips a good check out, but personally I would get 1001 tips instead which I have found to be useful.

Yes, that's more logic also because they are different authors,
but is there anyone that bought both Dan's books to say if they are complementary or Inside is sufficient?
Best answer from Dan himself :)

Francesco

retinajoy

09-02-2004, 06:40 AM

Is there an exahustive list of these sites-tutorials out there?

Francesco

A popular good list is here:

http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials/Main_Menu.htm

mattclary

09-02-2004, 06:50 AM

Kurtis

09-02-2004, 10:01 AM

kurv

09-02-2004, 11:09 AM

Frank10

Haven't seen Inside LightWave [8] yet, but I am currenlty in the process of reading Leigh van der Byl's LightWave 3D [8] Texturing, and would highly recommend it to any and everyone.

If you haven't seen it already, you might want to check out this thread for info on a special Wordware is offering on all their LightWave books right now.
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=27460

Thanks Kurtis, if you have any specific questions about our books (Wordware's) please let me know... I produced them here and might be able to answer a question or two ;)

Thanks!!

WilliamVaughan

09-02-2004, 11:21 AM

kurv

09-02-2004, 11:33 AM

You can never have too much learning material....buy as much as you can afford.....If you are just getting started I would say Buy Inside LW8 and LW Essentials.....

Then move to specialized books and the Tips books.....

Francesco, William is being a little modest here :) He was a major contributor on the 1001 Tips and Tricks book by Wordware contributing over 100 tips himself of the 1300 in the book...

Thanks William!!

Also, if your wanting to learn how to model, there is nothing like a great video on it...

Be sure to check out the Vehicle Modleing Videos (http://www.kurvstudios.com/lightwave/vehicle_modeling.php) from KURV studios. There is more than 8 hours of instruction per video for less than 35 bucks!!

You can find a TOC, demo videos and such at that link as well...

Happy waving!!

SplineGod

09-03-2004, 02:20 AM

Hi to all. I'm new to LW, and want to learn more, specially in Characters-Humans. So I want to buy some books, but I would like to know more on them (I have already read the other threads).
Francesco

I would also suggest looking at video training material. I have a professional character series on CDs that covers the material in great depth. Its got over 70 hours of quicktime movies plus unlimited on support. The courses are self paced. This is what I do for a living in Hollywood. Ive done character work at several major studios including Warner Bros. Youll definately learn how to do it. You can also check out my free videos on my site or at www.kurvstudios.com. Those will give you a good idea of what to expect.

FranK10

09-03-2004, 03:11 AM

A popular good list is here:

http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials/Main_Menu.htm

Thanks a lot retinajoy, for that link: it seems very interesting collection of tutorials!

If you haven't seen it already, you might want to check out this thread for info on a special Wordware is offering on all their LightWave books right now.

Kurtis and Kurv, that offer is very interesting for US! One question: is it valid also here in Europe? And, if yes, how does it cost the taxes and shipping?

If you are just getting started I would say Buy Inside LW8 and LW Essentials.....

I'm not at the very beginning, anyway... What do you mean with LW Essentials? The new one that it isn't ready now? When will it ship?

Also, if your wanting to learn how to model, there is nothing like a great video on it...
Be sure to check out the Vehicle Modleing Videos from KURV studios.

Yes I want to learn more on modeling BUT only for organic-human-animal characters, also nature and landscapes, not other topics.

You can also check out my free videos on my site
I will do.

BTW what do you think guys about learning from videos or from books. Which is the pro and con's of these two learning styles?

kurv

09-03-2004, 09:45 AM

I will hit the ones I can ;)

Kurtis and Kurv, that offer is very interesting for US! One question: is it valid also here in Europe? And, if yes, how does it cost the taxes and shipping?

It is valid in Europe but the shipping will make the deal not worth it, sorry... Amazon is a better bet as you can save some money still and shipping is much cheaper, nothing we can do about shipping charges.

I'm not at the very beginning, anyway... What do you mean with LW Essentials? The new one that it isn't ready now? When will it ship?

Well then the Essentials book may not be for you... but if your interested in character design our new Cartoon Creation books might be a good fit for you. You can read more about them here, www.wordware.com/cartoon. If you do order, be sure to use the coupon though, or wait till October and order from Amazon...

Yes I want to learn more on modeling BUT only for organic-human-animal characters, also nature and landscapes, not other topics.

Okay, Larry has some courseware on that over on his site, www.3dtrainingonline.com, the best material available for this.

BTW what do you think guys about learning from videos or from books. Which is the pro and con's of these two learning styles?

I would personally say that is a question only you can answer. Myself I learn more from videos, but that’s because I have a short attention span and constantly open LightWave while reading to try small sections out... this causes me to not take the information in. With videos, I can watch a 15 - 25 minute section which equals about a half of a book chapter and I get it...

But that’s me, again you will have to be the judge of this one.

kurv -

lesterfoster

09-03-2004, 09:43 PM

I prefer to learn by video's. much more than books. I have lot's by Dan Ablan. and other soon to arrive

Silkrooster

09-04-2004, 12:25 AM

So far i received Inside Lightwave 8 and Lightwave 3d 8 texturing. I highly recommend both books. They have help me greatly in modeling as well as texturing. I wish Dan could have spent more time with the modeling to more or less drill the point home in my head. A few pointers I kinda had to guess at to make it look right. But I think that he was trying to make the model your own. Also I beleive Dan was on a 1000 page limit. In both books the pictures are in black and white. I think that color would have helped more, even though the color pictures are provided on the enclosed CD. It seams like extra work just to see what they are trying to show you. But other than that both authors really give a lot of excellent advice. These books help get your feet wet and ready to try more.
I keep hearing about character modeling I beleive is from wordware. Does anybody know when that will be available. Amazon had it listed, but decided to drop it. I think it was for modeling comic characters. Sound very interesting.
Silk

SplineGod

09-04-2004, 12:44 AM

General purpose books are going to typically end up being much more basic. Thats whats kept me from buying a lot of books over the years. Ive liked Dave Jerrards stuff in the past because he tends to delve much more deeply into things.

I like that Wordware has taken what would have been chapters in other books and made complete volumes out of the material. I also like that Wordware had 30 or so authors contributing to the 1001 Tips and Tricks book. Its definately an interesting read. :)

dablan

09-04-2004, 02:11 PM

Hey Frank,
the more training material you can find, the better.

However, if you're trying to decide over a book or videos, perhaps then my "Inside LightWave [8]" book is just what you need. Not only is it geared towards beginners right from the start, but quickly and easily ramps you up to more advanced topics. It contains every possible modeling method tutorials from splines, to box, to point by point and subdivisions. The fact is, most of the professional animators working on movies and television shows using LightWave have learned from my books. The bonus is that you'll get a DVD-ROM with the book which has an additional 5 plus hours of video tutorials to take your learning even further.

LightWave 8 Killer Tips is a great desk reference, and unlike any other LightWave book, it's full color. The tips are easy to follow and fun to read. It is not a tutorial book, but rather, a compliment to other training resources.

The "Inside" LightWave books have been the standard learning resource for schools, students, and professionals in 6 countries for the past 7 years. Inside 8 is the best edition we've done, so do yourself a favor and check it out. Email me if you have any questions.

Good luck!

hrgiger

09-04-2004, 04:37 PM

I like both books and videos in their own right but I generally prefer videos if I'm just trying to brush up on a subject since trying to learn everything from a video is a little cumbersome as you have to keep flipping back and forth between the video and the interface you're trying to learn. Generally I'll watch a video all the way through and then try to apply that but I don't like trying to learn everything while watching a video.
Books on the other hand are great if something is completely a new subject to you and you're trying to do a complete walk through. You can have your book open in front of you while working on the computer at the same time.
I agree with Proton that the Inside Lightwave book is probably your best bet. That or essentials.

dablan

09-04-2004, 11:00 PM

agree with Proton that the Inside Lightwave book is probably your best bet.

Thanks hrgiger!

Here's a link to Amazon to check out our recent reviews:

Inside LightWave [8] (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0735713685/ref=ase_danablandotcom/002-2513290-3906404?v=glance&s=books)

Silkrooster

09-04-2004, 11:19 PM

Dan,
I have a question for you. I already have ver 8 of your inside books. Is there anything in any of the other inside books that is not covered in the ver 8 book that would make a well worth purchase.
Silk

dablan

09-04-2004, 11:24 PM

Thanks for picking it up!

I think the head modeling tutorial by Stu Aitken in Inside 7 is always a great one... as well as the Skyscraper tutorial, and the other various tutorials. Try to head on down to your local Borders books and check it out. The Inside 8 is selling like mad I just found out - but Inside 7 is still moving as well. Stores carry both. Inside 6, eh... you're not going to see that much. It's still out there for sale, but hard to find except online.

Leigh

09-05-2004, 07:41 PM

Silkrooster

09-05-2004, 09:55 PM

One thing that I noticed with a few videos is that the author is moving at a pretty fast clip. Also they use the shortcut keys. To someone that is just learning LW, they would not know any shortcuts. So I beleive that in video everything should be showed and perhaps even twice. It's one thing to make something for yourself and it is totally different when showing someone else.
I beleive that the best teaching system is the combination of reading and viewing videos. If someone created a book and at the end of the section or chapter the reader was told to now watch video #X then the reader would be able to see why the author had told the reader how to do something. Also these videos I have seen on the net with no audio, come on, how is that going to teach any body anything. If you can't type up a pdf to go with the video or write a book then the video had better have audio. These techniques need to be explained why and how.
I love it when I see somebody make a mistake in a video, not only does it show the viewer that the author is human, it also teaches the viewer how to correct a mistake.
Silk

colkai

09-06-2004, 04:52 AM

I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for Dave Jerrard's books, as it was his "LightWave 5.6 Applied" castle tutorial (while using Inspire 3D) that prompted me to make the jump to LightWave.

Amen Brother! - That book was a real eye-opener for me in many ways.

Also a big fan of the "Inside LW" series, can't wait to get the new one.
I've got all the Inside series, and the 'Power Guide', they all are very useful, even if you have the newer book, the older ones also have plenty of gems in.

Got to say 1001 tips and tricks is super as well, also, as others have said, Lieghs texturing book and Nicks Lighting book, (all from wordware). These, apart from Dan's latest opus, are my most recent additions.

colkai

09-06-2004, 04:59 AM

I agree with Proton that the Inside Lightwave book is probably your best bet.

Agreed 100%, Dan just seems to get better with each book.
The wealth of experience in writing and doing tutorials really shows, plus I love the way they are written.

Plus, don't forget, when you get the latest "Inside" book, you get a shed-load of training VTMS on the DVD as well, plus Dan has said he intends to put additional related stuff on his site.
Really, it's a no brainer, you just have to buy it. :D

dablan

09-06-2004, 10:03 PM

Leigh,
thanks so much. And for anyone wanted really good texture info - Leigh's book is a must. I ordered it and paid extra for Saturday delivery!

And Silk.... there are some videos that go too fast, like a demo. I've seen them. There are also those that take f o r e v e r to get to the point. But, I think you should check out Inside LW 8 - not only do the chapters take you through cool tutorials, you're then told to watch the videos on the enclosed DVD to get to the next step. Just what you're looking for!

And btw - if anyone has tried emailing me in the past seven days, email me again - I lost them all.... long story...

Thanks,
Dan
:(

Silkrooster

09-06-2004, 10:21 PM

Dan,
I guess you forgot already I have inside LW8. I love the book and I have viewed the videos. I have to admit between you, Splinegod and Proton, I start drueling over the videos. All three of you I concider to be the "pros" of the field. Keep up the excellent work I definitely will be getting your next inside LW X book.
Silk

dablan

09-06-2004, 10:28 PM

Cool - thanks.

I forgot - I was so hot about McAfee SpamKiller eating all of my mail, well....

Enjoy the book. We had record sales in June and July, so thanks everyone.

kurv

09-07-2004, 03:38 PM

I beleive that the best teaching system is the combination of reading and viewing videos.
Silk

Please also take a few minutes to check out KURV studios. We have a new series of Vehicle Modeling Videos that are fantastic at teaching you to spline model. Each video is over 8 hours of instruction broken up into 15 - 30 minute sections so you can watch and learn at your own pace.

Let us know if you have any questions.

www.kurvstudios.com (http://www.kurvstudios.com )

adrian

09-07-2004, 04:19 PM

Dan,

This maybe a stupid question but I'm going to ask it anyway as I'm like that:

Even though I only have 7.5, could I still follow most of the tuts in your Inside LW8 book? Leigh's book (which I think is great too) says LW8 in the title, but it works just fine with 7.5...

Are you working on a follow-up to your advanced courseware? You were once talking about a character modelling one (some old hag on a broom with a big wart on her nose if I'm not mistaken?!).

BTW Dan, did you check out my WIP Millennium Falcon? The only reason I mention it here is several modelling techniques I learnt using your courseware I used /am using to model it (link below for updated version - ignore the render error on the right!) - so I would be one to definately recommend video learning even if some people wouldn't agree. I guess it's different strokes for different folks.

I will be using the texturing techniques learnt in Leigh's book to make it look.... total crap!!!! (well, you know... beaten up and shot to death).

Adrian.

http://www.adrianskingdom.com/render7alt.jpg

kurv

09-07-2004, 04:27 PM

My publisher may murder me for saying this, but.... Personally I would recommend Dan Ablans Inside LightWave book. In my most humble opinion, beginners are better off learning from books as opposed to videos because they are not yet familar with the programs interface (which you kinda have to be to follow video tutorials), and also because it's easier to go back and double-check something in a book than it is to find that particular part in a video.

Dan's Inside LightWave books have always been great. I learned from one myself when I first started using LightWave :)

Once you're comfortable with the software, then go for tips books and specialised books if you feel the necessity :)

No worries Leigh :) I have Dan's books as well! Nothing bad to say here at all, all these resources are great for newbie's... get them all!!!

and get them cheap (Wordware coupon - "SIGGRAPH-04-WW" for 40% off Wordware titles and "kurvstudios" for 20% off KURV studios training videos).

Sorry, I could not leave without posting the specials...

www.wordware.com/lightwave

www.kurvstudios.com/lightwave

kurv -

Silkrooster

09-07-2004, 05:44 PM

Please also take a few minutes to check out KURV studios. We have a new series of Vehicle Modeling Videos that are fantastic at teaching you to spline model. Each video is over 8 hours of instruction broken up into 15 - 30 minute sections so you can watch and learn at your own pace.

Let us know if you have any questions.

www.kurvstudios.com (http://www.kurvstudios.com )
Kurv,
Yeah I did see your web site. Looks interesting I am not sure if I am ready to model cars yet. A little shy I suppose in tackling such a project. I noticed that you plan on adding other tutorials. Im glad you made a deal with splinegod. Hopefully you can make a deal with some of the other great legends in the LW community.
When I am ready I am sure I will be heading your way to try your tutorials.
Silk

kurv

09-07-2004, 08:45 PM

Kurv,
Yeah I did see your web site. Looks interesting I am not sure if I am ready to model cars yet. A little shy I suppose in tackling such a project. I noticed that you plan on adding other tutorials. Im glad you made a deal with splinegod. Hopefully you can make a deal with some of the other great legends in the LW community.
When I am ready I am sure I will be heading your way to try your tutorials.
Silk

Thanks!! Before you say your too shy, head over to our forum, www.kurvstudios.com/forum John in there is modeling his first car and he is doing amazing work!!

Good luck Silkrooster, the community is behind you!!

Hypershade

09-09-2004, 01:13 AM

My publisher may murder me for saying this, but.... Personally I would recommend Dan Ablans Inside LightWave book. In my most humble opinion, beginners are better off learning from books as opposed to videos because they are not yet familar with the programs interface (which you kinda have to be to follow video tutorials), and also because it's easier to go back and double-check something in a book than it is to find that particular part in a video.

Dan's Inside LightWave books have always been great. I learned from one myself when I first started using LightWave :)

Once you're comfortable with the software, then go for tips books and specialised books if you feel the necessity :)

I have a question regarding your book

I do not need help creating uv maps, although learning new ways couldnt hurt, but rather I am looking for is a step by step tutorial on painting color, specularity, bump, and diffuse maps in a painting program ... do you have a tutorial in your book covering this process ... from the beginning [ creating the canvas ] to painting the details all the way to the end ... not a walk - through but rather a step by step tutorial

If so, what type of object do you it for

dablan

09-09-2004, 08:29 PM

There is this information with Inside LW 8. There's a video tutorial or two on the DVD showing you how to create textures for the book cover's model - the scary old dude. So yes, it's step by step.

Thanks

Leigh

09-09-2004, 09:15 PM

I have a question regarding your book

I do not need help creating uv maps, although learning new ways couldnt hurt, but rather I am looking for is a step by step tutorial on painting color, specularity, bump, and diffuse maps in a painting program ... do you have a tutorial in your book covering this process ... from the beginning [ creating the canvas ] to painting the details all the way to the end ... not a walk - through but rather a step by step tutorial

If so, what type of object do you it for

Yup, there are two sections of the book that deal with that :)

Firstly, there is a general chapter on painting textures for each of the properties, from color to diffuse to spec to ref, etc. Each one uses one to three different types of surfaces as examples and shows the types of details that go into each.

Then the last section of the book is a section with just practical tutorials - there are sections for metal, organic, wood and one or two others... each tutorial goes through the steps of creating the different maps needed for each in a painting program.

Not all of them are "step by step" as such though as I didn't want to alienate intermediate level users, so it's a combination of step-by-step ones as well as "making-of" style ones which are more of a commentary type affair.

I hope this helps...

I would have liked to dedicate a lot more pages to the subject of painting textures but unfortunately the book had to be limited to 500 pages.
However, this is something I plan to explore specifically in the future ;)

Hypershade

09-10-2004, 01:52 AM

Thanks for the information

From your response I can not tell if you have a detailed tutorial for painting maps on an organic object, whether it be a full character or even just a head ... can you tell me this please

Just to clarify, I know how to use pshop to make wood from scratch, eventhough, if I needed a wood texture I would probably use a photo ... what I want to learn is how to paint on organic objects, namely characters, sci - fi objects, fantasy objects like castles and towers

Leigh

09-10-2004, 11:35 AM

There are two organic tutorials in the book - one on an eyeball and the other on human skin (a face specifically). The skin one was actually printed in Keyframe magazine... so if you read that you'll have seen it already. They're pretty detailed.

Painting skin is like painting any other texture though. The same fundamentals apply no matter what kind of texture you're creating because it's always simply about observation and logic. If you can paint one kind of texture, then it stands to reason that you can paint any kind - as long as you know how each surface property works, and to me that is far more important than any step-by-step painting tutorials, which frankly I believe teach absolutely nothing. I only did a few step-by-step tutorials in my book because I felt I had to - personally I think they're completely pointless and don't teach people how to be innovative or problem-solving at all, two traits that are vital for successful work in this industry.

lede

09-10-2004, 07:07 PM

I have Leigh's book and let me tell you it is very infomitive. I've been reading and re-reading the UV map section because it isn't a step by step section and more theory of why it is done that way. Her book also does have some really good exaples of how to paint every aspect of a skin surface.

I also have the ISLW8 book which btw Dan great work! In the past year I have devoured more LW information and Proton is right you can never have enough reference materials. Heck Dan turned me onto reading about other packedges and their techniques. Reference material is always really good so get as much as you can afford. Be it video, book, web tutorail try it all. Don't be afraid to experiment.

Good Luck
-Lee

Silkrooster

09-10-2004, 09:16 PM

Leigh,
I loved your book. It really took a lot of the mystery out of the surface editor. I am using the gradient editor and procedurals more and more. Hopefully you will take the time and write a new book.
Silk

Hypershade

09-10-2004, 09:49 PM