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sketchyjay
10-17-2003, 05:50 PM
I am hoping to compile a complete a list as possible of all the various modeling methods and to put links to examples (wireframes), tutorials, VTM(video training) and any other resource that might be related. These will not all be LW specific but I will list the tools to achive the same results in LW (if tools don't exist in LW I wont list them.... I've yet to run into this problem however.)

I'll keep this 1st post updated with resources as we find them.

There are two general schools of thought on where to start when modeling. Volume modeling and detail modeling.

The goal of either method is to generate a clean mesh that deforms well for animation. These notes are for modeling and should be considered for any modeling method

Bay Raitt on efficcient modeling
http://cube.phlatt.net/home/spiraloid/tutorial/

Here is a list of general info on topography of a great mesh
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38469

http://www.metagons.com/wiredepot01.htm

Here is an old newtek forum thread that had alot of pics and info on various 3d topography

http://forums.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/17979.html?1028046416

Notes on correct mouth topography
http://www.3dluvr.com/setherial/tutor/mouth/tutor01.htm


VOLUME MODELING
Also known as box modeling, sub-d modeling, metanurb modeling rarely. The benefit of sub-d modeling is that the detail is localized to exactly were you need it.

For all box modeling you will use alot of the smoothshift rightclick then size tools or the edge tools (http://www.dstorm.co.jp/dslib/modeler.html look for edge tool) Spin poly is used alot to get the flow right. Either way you also need to get familiar with symmetry mode, knife and Drag tool (a must know) and using bandsaw.

Ambient-Whisper's set of VTMs that show a full figure modeled using the box method. Done in Mirai the tools are available in LW. Smoothshift, bevel, bandsaw for most the most part. Edge tools and jigsaw would also come in handy for following these.
http://cglove.isp.st/zboard/view.php?id=community&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=12

good foundation but some errors
http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/
If you have been to this site they have a slight error on the subdivision modeling tip page. Once you have the form you do not subdivide to start detailing. that destroys the whole point of sub-d modeling, localized detail. What you do is cut in detail only were you need it. You subdivide only at the end to polish off your finished model.

Yoda box modeled. A mirai tut but putting imges in backgound of your windows would work. The edge tools or jigsaw (check www.flay.com) would emulate most of the techniques
http://www.brilliant-creations.com/yodatutp1.htm

GENERAL BOX SHAPE
The most common starting point

start with subdivided box
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/contests/dec-02/winners/tutorials/model/Guldoni_Davide/index.html

3x3 subdivded box (userdelta)
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/modeling/head/index.html

box
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/modeling/headmodeling/index.html

Box model whole body head to toe (part of a book that is shown as same site)
http://cal.jmu.edu/ratner/tutorials/

box model whole body tut - for 3dsmax, but if you know LW tool set you can bandsaw and smoothshift alot of this with no problem. Edge tools would also be of great use with this (check flay.com)- BTW the head is a point by point method
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/joanmenu.asp

ALT SHAPE
Using spheres, cylinders or other primatives.
Starting with a cylinder
http://www.stickman.de/content/stuff/process/tutorials/tut_select.htm
CUSTOM SHAPES
Some people use prebuilt shapes or entire bodies to build models from. Usually made by one of the other techniques. Some people will build a rough structure first then begin to sub-d details on to it.


ByteHawk's Box modeling Tut using what I call a complex box head
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/modeling/boxhead/index2.htm

Todd Grimes uses a semi Loomis head for those who have his DVDs
A Loomis for those who don't know was an illustrator in the 40s that put out great training books that broke down head measurements into the 5 eyes wide head and 8 head tall bodies we commonly refer to. He basicly divided up the head into a sphere and divided it up to show skull placement then extruded down about half the height of the sphere to form the jaw. these basic proportions are the staple of his heads. His books are mostly out of print but people keep copies alive on the internet. (see reference below)




DETAIL MODELING
Also known as point by point modeling or detail out modeling. In essence you start with a single tiny poly that begins as part of the eye and is extruded out using extender (http://www.davidikeda.com/) to form the eye then building outward until the head is done. The main benefit of this method is that an experienced modeler can build the exact flow he wants. To use this technique effectively requires knowledge of the head's volumes and a understanding of the flow of polys.

SINGLE POLY SHAPE

Point by Point head model. Extender is a must to follow this tutorial.
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/joanmenu.asp

example #2
http://www.0nd.org/eng/tutorials/orc_modeling/blueprint_setting_1.htm
point by point method. use the knife or di's extender (http://www.davidikeda.com/) again to make rows of polys.

Xtrm3d did this animated gif to show his technique.
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=899158#post899158

PREBUILT SHAPE
others are use poly chopping. take a poly then knife and weld it into shape.

others have custome shapes (the guy with the 8 poly doughnut shapes he uses to start eyes and mouth with)

EXTRUSION MODELING
This modeling technique begins with a flattened shape. There are two general methods used to get to a final model. One is to use a flat polyshape and begin carving in the contours. Once that is done it is extruded to the rough size then finally shaped. This method is almost like making a custom primitive the one thing to note about this technique is that it leaves all the shaping until the end. The other method is to begin with poly and shape and carve as you go. The benefit of this modeling technique is that is starts with almost a drawing of the face that is then shaped making it easy to understand for most beginners. Understanding of the volume of the head is necessary to making a great model.

A poly outline of head divided by contour then extruded before shaping.
http://www.thehobbitguy.com/tutorials/polymodeling/index.html

building the entire face flat then shaping it after

There is also the poly tube to limb/torso method



SPLINE MODELING
Here we use splines to define the shape of the head. Splines can be used as a flat template from the side and front when put in the back layer. You can also outline the shape of the head then patch it with polys.

Usual outline then fill with patches
http://www.comet-cartoons.com/toons/3ddocs/facialmodeling/modeling.html
A 3ds Max tutorial but auto patching and a good knowledge of poly flow will help make a terrific model.



COMBO MODELING
These are techniques that combine the best of two or more other techniques or just go off in a completely different direction.

Larry Shultz's combined extrusion and sub-d technique. Single poly beginning but detailed using sub-d methods. This uses the best of both worlds. Knowledge of volume or a good reference image is very helpful. (see the starting the head VTM)
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/support/

Another example with Cresshead showing his take on Larry's technique.
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9819&highlight=start+with+this+shape

This is a Prehistoric animal tut by Russell Gooday
http://creativedigital.bizhosting.com/Creative%20TutorialsPage.htm
A comination of box modeling and the extrusion method to build the entire body.

there is that person who did the street fighter models by sketching poly lines in then modeling in the character over them. It's kind of a spline technique but not... Still looking for links to topic.

Taking a technique from nurbs you can shape a mouth then extrude a tube out to form a head and neck. then sub-d shape it from there. But really this would require so much fixing as not to be more than an experiment.

Then you can model in hypervoxels
metaballs



LOW POLY GAME MODELING
The difference with low poly modeling is that you are trying to make a character with as few polys as possible and since they are going into a game engine the final model will usually end up as tris. Low poly is usually considered about 2-5000 polys although not long ago some were only 1000 polys.
Box out
custom shape out
tube to detail
trippled tube to detail

Using tubes to build body and box for head. Similar to sub-d modeling. Use edge tools to carve details.
http://3dtotal.com/team/Tutorials/benmathis/benmathis_1.asp

Using extusion methods
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=879420


Jay

sketchyjay
10-18-2003, 03:28 AM
REFERENCE
With proper reference you can postpone learning volumes and such. A good image of the front and side are usually all you will need. An important tip to using front and side images is to use the exact size image for both sides. Use layers to make sure head lines up. The benefit of this is that you can set both images to the same scale and position in modeler. That said here is further into to help setup reference images.

As long as I am listing head reference here is a great resource oN how to setup your images correctly to model from them. A must read. Wish I had this when I started out.
http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/tuts/BHhome.html

Loomis
http://www.fineart.sk/
http://www.saveloomis.org/

Template based on loomis so you don't have to wade through all that text on the loomis books.
http://www.anticz.com/anticz.htm

actual loomis head template done in 3d
http://www.anticz.com/3dheadpa.htm

Spline head template from autotraced illustration
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/modeling/boxhead/index2.htm

Example of poly loops
http://www.metagons.com/dsarticle04.htm

Bay Raitt on sub-d modeling
http://www.izware.com/news/indexa446.html

images in 2 views
3 views
an image on the side
a napkin sketch stuck to the monitor
from memory
with a ton of anatomy books around me..i mean them :)
with sluptures
figures(i.e. a sulpture or toy/model) with lines drawn on them
figures with points drawn on
figures with shadows showing edges
figures sliced and scanned

Quick UV mapping list. Just because It's nice to have this info to finish off your model
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=76206
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78802


Jay

toby
10-18-2003, 06:43 PM
Best Car modeling tutorial ON EARTH -

http://www.lwg3d.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14554

Step by step, hundreds of pages and full size images. Beginner/Intermediate level.

He draws splines over backdrop images, patches them at low-res, then sub-patches them to finish.

Elvis rules!

sketchyjay
10-18-2003, 07:12 PM
BOX MODELING CON'T
10000 word limit... sigh... luckily I posed enough to add more reference here... :)

Here is a great tutorial of the whole body buy Peter Ratner
http://www.highend3d.com/global/tutorials/subdmodel/page1.3d
This is for another piece of software so you'll need to use edge tools, and have a working knowledge of the Knife, bandsaw and smoothshift to complete this tutorial.

A video(gif) series by Mike RB showing him box modeling
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94091

Jay

sketchyjay
10-19-2003, 12:48 AM
The list is a little chaotic right now. As I went to find tutorials on the actual techniques New catagories have poped up and trying to decide were some go is changing as I go.

I think for now if you start with a general shape and work in the detail it is Volume modeling

If you start with a detail and work your way out it is detail modeling.

If you start with a flat surface add detail then extrude (smooth-shift) it goes into extrusion modeling.

Some don't fit neatly into any camp so I'll add an exotic modeling list as well for those who have truely unique ways of modeling.

The skylark tut I mentioned is too alien for me to post for LW but in essence it is happyface modeling. outline the face. draw in the eyes and mouth. then begin to build the detail out. (So it is like the detail out approch) But it is all flat. once the details are done you begine to pull it out into Z space. After that you smoothshift/poz out the back of hte head and finish it off.

Jay

TyVole
10-19-2003, 09:45 PM
Terrific thread!

luka
10-19-2003, 10:15 PM
Well done. A very helpful link. This is the kind of stuff we should be sharing and maintaining.:)

sketchyjay
10-20-2003, 01:14 AM
Thanks,

After all the discussions, thoughts and questions I thought it was time to compile all the tutorials and techniques so that there was one handy place to find them all and see the merits of each. I may put them in ease of use order once I am confident it makes sense.

I also have to organize in the different detailing techniques of sub-ds. some people have very clean meshes while others have asymetrical meshes. Also smoothshift leaves very distinct patterns behind (this is not bad just a signature of the tool). So that is one technique. Bandsaw is another detailing method. There is another where details are "loop cut or poly looped" into the mesh. Basicly it intails cutting detail from one hole to another. so a line may cut out of the outside corner of the eye loop up and over brow and back into inside corner of the same eye. Or it may loop out of one nostril and around mouth and back in the other. I have to organize the tuts by how they detail the models later since more than one technique may be used.


Hope people are enjoying this info. From the number of views I'll assume there is some interest in this topic.

It's 2 am here so I'll post more tomarrow. Some of the references require digging through my archive of modeling links...some more should be up by the time you read this.

nite

Jay

sketchyjay
10-20-2003, 10:46 AM
Organized this a bit. Added some links to the tools i mentioned.

More tonight. found my archive of links so I'll be sorting thought them and will post through out the day.


Jay

meshmaster
10-20-2003, 01:14 PM
but you may want to include 3-d scanners and jpg->3d conversion things like d-sculptor (http://www.d-vw.com/dsculptor/about/about_d_sculptor.htm) and uzr 3d (http://www.macroenter.com/uzr3d.html)

sketchyjay
10-20-2003, 02:40 PM
If anyone has any experience with these software packages post it here. hmmm... not sure if that really falls into modeling since it does all the work for you. You just pick the pics to use. In any case i'll post any info I can find on these and the other packages like this when I get time.

Thanks

Jay

pixeltek
10-21-2003, 09:10 PM
I notice that this link seems to be dead:
Point by Point head model. Extender is a must to follow this tutorial.
http://www.3dtotal.com/http://www.3...rc/joanmenu.asp

However, even better, you can go straight to the source and directly to the artist extraordinaire's website - he surely deserved your visit - (and explore the entire Joan D'Arc tutorial and more) here:
http://mr2k.3dvf.com/

He's a Maxer of the finest kind and his tutes are useful info for anyone. I had long been totally impressed by his skills and had linked his website on mine for some time now. Don't let it put you off that it's in French. He makes everything perfectly clear.



http://www.cosmic-pearl.com/

sketchyjay
10-21-2003, 09:59 PM
I remembeer that site. There quite a few tutorials up there that are really good. Use babelfish to translate the pages. There is an eye tut, splines and a few other modeling tuts that are well worth the effort to translate.

Thanks,

Jay

sketchyjay
10-22-2003, 08:02 AM
Here is an interesting topic on what modeling methods people prefer.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96625

Jay

sketchyjay
10-22-2003, 11:53 AM
discussion of spline and box modeling
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157&highlight=start+with+this+shape

jay

sketchyjay
10-22-2003, 12:26 PM
I am looking for the post where someone showed how he used an 8 sided flat torus shape as a kind of primitive to start his eyes and mouth modeling. Does anyone have the link?

Jay

sketchyjay
10-22-2003, 03:07 PM
Here is an example of using the nurbs tube extrude method I mentioned in the first post. This technique is almost like the detail method in that you start with a single poly (12 pt disk (should of used a 14 pt disk)) then build the mouth from that and extruding out the rest of the head.

This is crude, but I wanted to see if there was any advantage to it. It makes geometry that flows correctly around the mouth but seems to bunch up under the chin and leaves wide spacing on the back of the head. It can probably all be cylindrically mapped as you build it if you use magic bevel. As a matter of fact you could probably build the whole thing with magic bevel. That said unless you really know your head volumes and have done alot of modeling it is tricky to shape. Learn spin quad if you decide to try this. Di's power tools ring select would help if you use the magic bevel route

Jay

sketchyjay
10-30-2003, 05:12 PM
Here is some info about facial setup used by Weta. They used the F.A.C.S system developed by Paul Eckman
http://www.lowend.se/3d_festival_notes/3df_03_facialanimation.html

More on pauls system
http://www.emotionsrevealed.com/

http://www.paulekman.com/

Basicaly he goes into depth about how the face moves and what muscles move with which ones.

Not really a technical mesh building resource but useful when you reach the point of doing your endomorphs


A tutorial on facial units
http://www.drone.org/tutorials/ActionUnits.htm

Jay

sketchyjay
10-31-2003, 11:35 AM
A very good study on how to use reference images and how to set them up by Gnarly Cranium

http://www.logrhythms.com/Leah/tuts/BH01.html

A must read for anyone new to using refence images.

Jay

sketchyjay
10-31-2003, 10:41 PM
Here is a great reference site on the head along with links to relivent head reference on the net.

Not modeling but useful anatomy info which we can all use.

The main index of the site
http://coldfusion.art.msstate.edu/camenisch/thehumanhead/index.html

The modeling theory page is a real eye opener for beginners and useful to the more experienced. Good stuff to know.

Further links
http://coldfusion.art.msstate.edu/camenisch/thehumanhead/reference.html

sketchyjay
12-11-2003, 10:17 AM
Wow it took along time to find these.

Sorry about that. Here are some examples of the custom primitives I had mentioned a while back. These are done by 3DZealot. He mentions more in this thread on CGTalk

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40373

sketchyjay
12-11-2003, 10:17 AM
more by 3DZealot