A little Mac humor...

[hrgiger]

Here, I posted this in the community section so some of you may have already seen it but if you haven't you must watch this video....

It's Divx.

http://www.thehoucks.com/happynowhere/Apple_Switch_Parody_DivX.avi

[Matt]

This one is pretty funny too!

http://webdev.o1.com/rvb/movies/switch/RvB_switch.mov

:)

[Jimzip]

Just wait 'till Beam gets here..
Oh boy..

It's amazing how many people hate Macs.. I mean, I know the 'Switcher' campaign was crap.. But what did we ever do to PC's? :(

Jimzip :D

[Matt]

I don't hate Macs at all, I love 'em! I had to switch to Windows because software I needed to use wasn't available for Mac, sadly!

But I'm not a Windows hater now either, I can get just as much done as I could on a Mac, the whole 'switch' campaign of people saying they couldn't do this, or do that etc. on Windows was just plain bollox! There is NOTHING you can do on a Mac that you can't do on a PC, and vice-versa!

:)

P.S. But Apple users have Steve Jobs and Windows have Bill Gates, let's face it, I know who I'd invite to a dinner party, and it ain't the snivelling, whiney voiced geek!

[tallscot]

You can't just drag MS Office from the CD to your HD to install it on the PC, like you can on the Mac.

You can't uninstall it without being asked if you want to delete DLL X or Y on the PC, like you can on the Mac, which uninstalls it by simply dragging it to the trash.

You can't play movies and sound files right in the Explorer, like you can in OS X.

You can't see icon previews in all Explorer views, like you can in OS X.

You can't ignore viruses, spyware, and adware on the PC like you can on the Mac (worms sent to me do nothing).

You can't do target disk mode on the PC like you can on the Mac.

You can't just boot from a CD by holding down the C key on the PC like you can on the Mac, and then not worry about the CD being in the drive the next time you boot.

You can't just plug in a digital camera and download photos without having a different WIA driver for every single camera like you can on the Mac.

You can't plug in hardware on your PC and not be affected by IRQs like you can on the Mac.

I own and use both, but do as little production work on my PC as possible. My good friend uses PCs with Discreet's 3DS Max and Edit. He has had to reinstall his OS on two of his three PCs in the last six months. He lost a week's worth of video work the last time. The first time was a message about a corrupt DLL on boot-up and only gave him a BSOD. The second time wouldn't even get past the BIOS because I think he had a corrupt boot.ini file, or something to that effect.

You guys started it! :)

[tallscot]

Here, I posted this in the community section so some of you may have already seen it but if you haven't you must watch this video....

It's Divx.

Very funny guy, however he obviously doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

How do you rename a system-related file in OS X? It won't let you unless you log in as root. But guess what? I was just now able to go into my Windows XP Pro Windows/System32 folder and rename my "1033" folder, and even delete it.

And restoring OS X is incredibly easy - just boot from the OS X CD by holding down the C key (something this "Mac user" doesn't know about) and then run the restore. Of course, I've never had to restore OS X or reinstall, but XP has Restore Points for a reason, doesn't it? Of course, how do you access your restore points when you are getting a BSOD every time you boot?

OS X doesn't have DLLs that get corrupt, or a registry that gets hosed, etc.

OS X crashes less than XP because it doesn't rely on many things XP does that can crash it.

The Dock's zoom feature can be turned off. I agree that it's amazingly annoying.

Dragging files to the desktop does not create a "shortcut", as this "Mac user" claimed (the Mac term is "alias"). I just dragged a file to my desktop and it got moved there. In fact, I can move my browser, Safari, to the desktop and run it just fine. Try that with IE. Of course, why anyone would use their desktop to store files is beyond me.

You can't put the Dock at the top because that's where the menu bar is. OS X has the menu bar in the same place, and it's context sensitive. XP has multiple menu bars located all over your desktop, which means you don't achieve muscle memory and it also wastes valuable screen real estate that Windows sucks up quickly.

[tallscot]

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11968

XP crashing? :)

[tallscot]

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11343

Can't even install LW in XP?

Seriously, do you really want to start Mac humor threads? :)

[Matt]

maybe it's just me but I never have any problems with Windows XP, never had any driver conflicts, never had to re-install it, any hardware I've plugged into it just works, it's not as bad as it used to be by any means!

but if everything I needed to work with was available on both platforms, I'd choose the Mac any day, but the sad fact is most stuff is still PC only!

[Tronam]

Tallscot, you may have not started it, but you certainly dragged it into the proverbial gutter. :) The things you describe are general perceptions that don't apply to everyone. Can you accept that? I don't have a problem with either platform at all. They both work extremely well for me and make computer usage so convenient that I'm completely spoiled. I remember where we all came from in the computer world, perhaps you do not. Believe me, things are better now than they ever were and yet, we managed to get things done back then too. Of course, it is completely your prerogative to continue filling these threads with your passionate anti-PC rhetoric. I just don't see how it's productive at all, since it almost always degenerates into bad feelings. Besides, this is the PC forum... Why are you here? ;)

-Tronam

[tallscot]

I own a PC, that's why I'm here. And the gutter is in that video that started this thread. If you don't want this kind of thread, don't start it.

I never stated that they both don't work extremely well for you. I said that the Mac has fewer problems, fewer things to consider to keep it running well, fewer hassles, and is designed better.

I agree that XP is better than ME or 2K, or 3.11 or DOS, but it's still garbage compared to OS X, IMHO, and I own and use both.

I don't find a lot of things in this LW PC thread that are PC-only. I find a lot of people using the same application, the same plug-ins, the same video cards. Is there more software on the PC? Yep. Is there enough on the Mac? Yep.

[mrunion]

Some peoples' Windows (XP?) information is wrong....

You can do *some* of the things mentioned in the "can't" post above.

Though I'm a PC user (and yes, I use Windows XP), I *prefer* Linux. I too am forced to use Windows. However, in my humble opinion (and it's my God-given right to have one), I am not favorable to Apple.

Now, flame me if you wish. I have NOT tried to get ONE SINGLE user to switch to Windows, NOR have I stated that use of any one platform or OS makes any one group more or less capable.

Some people paint with oils, some with acryllics (sp?), some with water colors. Paint with what you want. Paint on the canvas you choose. Enjoy the video and laugh, or hate the video and don't watch it. Either way, leave your fellow-man and peacefully-opinioned thread-mates alone.

I for one see no point in either "side" downing the other.

[tallscot]

I have the right to my opinion too. Again, if you don't want Mac versus PC threads in this forum, you shouldn't start a thread like this.

You are free to post a Mac parody that is highly inaccurate, and I'm free to reply with my posts.

I have never stated that Windows users are less capable. I'm a Windows user.

I have never stated that anyone here should switch.

I have only stated my opinion about which is better and why.

I'm not "downing" a side, I'm criticizing a product. Don't take it personally when I criticize a product. If you said you prefer a Panasonic toaster over a GE toaster, I wouldn't take it personally if I owned a GE toaster.

Someone might prefer a PC over a Mac because they really like building their own PCs and they can't build a Mac. But that doesn't make Windows any better.

Someone might prefer a PC over a Mac because there is some software on the PC they need to use that isn't on the Mac. That doesn't make Windows any better either.

BTW, there are several distros of Linux for the Mac.

[Earl]

Tallscot,

I think the videos were mocking Apple's marketing more than anything. Those "Switch" commercials were ridiculous, and full of holes/misconceptions. So, naturally, the videos which spoof the Mac commercials are also full of holes (else they wouldn't be spoofs).

And no, XP isn't hard to use. It doesn't crash every time you open an application, as many people love to believe. LightWave installs without problems. Dongles work without problems (both parallel and usb). There are some people who experience install problems, but some people experience problems changing a roll of toilet paper too. There are a lot of reasons I hate Microsoft, and a lot of reasons I hate Windows, but none of the reasons you've listed are them (because most the reasons you've listed are misconceptions and untruths).

I do hate the Windows registry - I think everyone does. But it doesn't just get corrupt on its own and it doesn't require Windows to be re-installed every six months. I turn off System Restore, so those 'checkpoints' you've mentioned are not needed. I don't have to re-install Windows because I treat it well and it performs well. I have a broadband connection, yet I've never had a virus on my Windows machine (I don't install or use anti-virus software either). The checkpoints are there for the many ignorant computer users who do incredibly stupid things to their computer. The default settings that Windows XP installs with are meant for average, not-so-PC-savy computer users. System files are hidden and protected with these settings, so you can't rename or delete or even touch files that could mess up your computer. The reason you were able to rename your System32 folder was because you specifically gave yourself administrative rights, and you specifically told Windows to let you edit system files. How is that Windows' fault?

Anyhow, as I've said before, I hate Windows, and I hate Microsoft. I use XP because there isn't a suitable alternative (for me).

I do find those spoof commercials funny (especially the way the 'gamer' slips in that quiet murmur of "photoshop" when he's trying to list games on the Mac). :D

[Tronam]

Everyone is of course free to express their opinion, but I think there's a distinct difference between a humorous satire and serious ranting. I just can't help but think that one would have to be really insecure to feel the need to respond so defensively to such a light hearted comedy skit. It's this kind of attitude I think that helps maintain this stereotype that most Mac users are obsessive zealots. :) Of course, I know this isn't the truth... most of the time. ;)

-Tronam

[tallscot]

Earl,

I appreciate your civility.

The point was this video talked about how the Mac crashes all the time, system files get corrupted and you can't fix it, etc., and I pointed out that there are posts on PC LW right now about crashing, not being able to install, etc.

A parody is funny when it has some sense of truthfulness to it. This did not.

There are plenty of registry problems on XP. I know what I'm doing and I had one related to WinAmp, where I uninstalled WinAmp but the registry reference didn't get deleted so whenever I double-clicked on an MPEG file it asked me where WinAmp was. And like most XP users, I have Reg Cleaner just for this reason.

There are plenty (http://support.microsoft.com/search/default.aspx?Catalog=LCID%3D1033%26CDID%3DEN-US-KB%26PRODLISTSRC%3DON&Product=&KeywordType=ALL&Titles=false&numDays=&maxResults=25&Queryl=corrupt+missing+dll&Query=corrupt+missing+dll&QuerySource=gsfxSearch_Query&srchExtraQry=) of DLL issues on Windows XP, and plenty (http://support.microsoft.com/search/default.aspx?Catalog=LCID%3D1033%26CDID%3DEN-US-KB%26PRODLISTSRC%3DON&Product=&KeywordType=ALL&Titles=false&numDays=&maxResults=25&Queryl=corrupt+registry&Query=corrupt+registry&QuerySource=gsfxSearch_Query&srchExtraQry=) of registry issues in XP.

The point about renaming system-critical files came from that video, and the fact is it's much easier to do such a thing in Windows. In OS X, the admin can't do this. You have to log out and log in as root to do that.

What, specifically, is untrue in my post?

Tronam, if I'm insecure for replying to the ranting in that video, aren't you insecure for replying to me? Who is the zealot who posted a video with nothing but a rant about how Macs suck? You are obviously being hypocritical here.

[WizCraker]

You people need to chill, it is a parody - A literary or artistic work that imitates the characteristic style of an author or a work for comic effect or ridicule - of the Apple commercials.

[Tronam]

Sigh... I'll not bother trying to fathom your circular logic. It will end up nowhere. It just seems strange for me to see someone take time out of their day to actually write out a long, really negative list of things on how a platform is inferior. It just doesn't help anyone or bring anything positive to a thread. I guess it just makes you feel good to look at that long list and feel really "right" as we bumble along in "garbage" (as you say) Windows. Gee, thanks. But heck, it's probably just as strange to see me take time out of my day to talk about someone taking time out of... see, the pointless circular logic again.

It's a shame this thread had to degenerate as it did. I'm as much to blame as anyone I suppose and it's unfortunate that people's sensitivity has reached such a level that nothing is taken lightly any longer. Everything becomes a mean spirited debate.

-Tronam

[tallscot]

If you read it as mean-spirited, you misunderstood my disposition. I didn't flame anyone personally. I don't think I was "mean".

I suggest you take your own advice and not be so sensitive of my criticism of the Windows PC or the video that was posted.

[Tronam]

Originally posted by tallscot
I agree that XP is better than ME or 2K, or 3.11 or DOS, but it's still garbage compared to OS X...

If you can't sense the negativity, defensiveness and degrading demeanor in your posts, then I guess there's nothing left to say.

-Tronam

[tallscot]

I didn't realize you would take it so personally when I made that statement. If you called GE toasters garbage and I owned one, I wouldn't take it personally or "mean spirited". I might ask you why you think it's garbage...

[Tronam]

I didn't take it personally, but it represented the kind of energy or attitude that I was referring to. It must just be your style of communication that I misunderstood. My mistake.

-Tronam

[tallscot]

I think my style and energy matched that of the video that was posted, which was the point. It was not directed at you personally, but at the guy in the video and at Windows, which shouldn't offend you, in my opinion.

[Tronam]

Originally posted by tallscot
I think my style and energy matched that of the video that was posted, which was the point.

You think so? Ok. I guess I interpreted that video as just a silly parody of Apple's marketing and advertising, since as a Mac user I knew that much of what he was saying could be either worked around or resolved by reconfiguring OSX.

The same can be said for XP as well. Inexperienced users of both platforms will misunderstand or create problems for themselves by not understanding the OS better. Let's take your WinAMP problem for example. You said that when you uninstalled it, the global association with .MP3 files (or other media filetypes) was still tied to it. It's such an easy thing to change if you understand the OS, but for a layman Windows user who had never seen this before, I'm sure it could be a rather nebulous issue. No need for regcleaner or other such utilities, you just right-click the file you want to open --> choose 'Open with...' --> 'Choose Program...', select the new media player of choice and choose 'Always use selected program...'. Voila.

-Tronam

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[Earl]

Tallscot,

If it makes you feel any better, I would be willing to bet that most of the people who find the mac commercial spoof video funny also find the videos making fun of MS office funny too (there are numerous Clippy-spoofs out there). I don't think anyone takes them as undisputed truths - just humor.

Personally, I think NewTek would make an awesome OS. Would blow Mac and Windows right out of the water. :cool:

I can imagine an entirely customizable (down to the very shape of each element) user-interface composed completely out of hypervoxel sprites... :D

[tallscot]

Tronam,

I've been using Windows PCs for almost a decade, so I'm very much familiar with the "Open with..." solution. Obviously, that didn't work.

Are you saying Reg Cleaner doesn't exist, because this problem doesn't exist so there would be no need for Reg Cleaner?

There are many (http://support.microsoft.com/search/default.aspx?Queryc=file+association+xp&Query=file+association+xp&catalog=LCID%3D1033%26CDID%3DEN-US-KB%26PRODLISTSRC%3DON&Product=msall&KeywordType=ANY&Titles=false&numDays=&MaxResults=25&srchstep=1&querySource=gsfxSearch_Query) file association issues in Windows, along with the many DLL and registry issues I already pointed to.

Just pretending that these problems don't exist in Windows doesn't work, because the thousands of posts on ZDNet's Windows XP tech support forums, the posts on LW PC, and the tech notes at Microsoft say the problems do exist.

If it makes you feel any better, I would be willing to bet that most of the people who find the mac commercial spoof video funny also find the videos making fun of MS office funny too

My favorite is this (http://www.deanliou.com/WinRG/) one. :)

And whenever I post that one, there is always a Windows user that says it applies to Windows 95/98/ME, but not XP.

The video was different, though, because it was completely inaccurate. If I were to post a video of myself talking about how Windows can't even boot from a CD, I'm sure I'd have some people reply about how you can boot from a CD if you set it to boot in the BIOS before your HD. Right? Would that person be out-of-line? Of course not, because you can boot from a CD in Windows. Again, the parodies that have some truth in them are the funny ones. The ones where someone just stands there and says the Mac gets screwed up and crashes all the time because people rename system files is just fiction.

[js33]

Yeah that one is funny.
But I say it applies to Windows 3.1 and early Win 95.
I was still on the Amiga when Win 3.1 came out and I just said how the hell can anybody use this crap or put up with all these problems. Of course I was used to using a smart computer at the time and I finally had to start using Windows when the Amiga went away and it was a painful transition. I probably should have went to the Mac then but I really hated the Mac back then so I went to the PC as a lot of other ex-Amigians did.

But Windows finally got better with the NT variant then 98 was alright but was still plagued by a lot of the problems 95 had then 2000 came out and it was byebye 98 then of course XP came out and I don't think much about those early years.

This computer I use now (P4 2.5Ghz, XP sp1) is so stable I forgot how to format the hard disk and I forgot what they look like because I never have to open it.

Then I got over my previous hatred of the Mac enough to allow me to purchase an iMac and I like that too.

Cheers,
JS

[Tronam]

Originally posted by tallscot
Tronam,

I've been using Windows PCs for almost a decade, so I'm very much familiar with the "Open with..." solution. Obviously, that didn't work.

It didn't work? Uh-huh.

I can appreciate that you've been using Windows for almost a decade, but that doesn't automatically equate to understanding it beyond a fairly rudimentary level. Sensationalizing your woes is great for good drama, but there is nothing I've heard you criticize that is not easily understood or resolved through proper configuration or taking advantage of the myriad of freeware utilities to enhance Windows however you like. Much like the vast wealth of free lscript/plugin resources available to the LightWave community.

Many of your remarks are misleading and exaggerated. For example, you include links to pages on Microsoft's website on DLL and registry issues, but fail to mention that most of those pages refer to pre-Win2K operating systems, some even to Win 3.1. Most pertaining to Win NT 4.0 and Win95/98. Perhaps you are not aware of a few technological enhancements to Windows since the advent of Win2K. A very important one was Windows File Protection (WFP). This was developed to address the so called ".DLL-hell" that had affected WinNT 4.0/95/98/ME where applications would replace core system .DLL files as they wished, which could result in version mismatch inconsistencies, making some programs fail to work. WFP almost completely eliminated this problem because Windows monitors it's critical .DLLs and if one is overwritten, WFP immediately replaces it from an archived backup. I don't deal with .DLL problems anymore, we're not talking about Win9x any longer. This also addressed this tendency for performance/stability to degrage over time that was so common with Win95/98. Another important development was the NTFS file system, which was far more secure and robust, making file corruption almost completely non-existant. To this day, I have never experienced file corruption on an NTFS5 formatted hard drive. Also, extra keys in the registry you don't need does not equal "corruption". This is also any area that was addressed years ago. The era of "registry corruption" was Windows 95, not Win2K/XP.

-Tronam

[tallscot]

Please check this out:
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/file_assoc.htm

Hmm, file association fixes for Windows XP. Do you believe me now?

Sorry, but there are lots and lots of people having problems with XP that just don't exist in OS X.

Going to ZDNet.com's Windows XP tech support forum, we find hundreds of posts about corrupted files:

Using XP pro on a computer inherited from my father in law, when I start it up it tells me it has found new hardware and wants to install it. I don't know what it is looking for and other than an error message when I try to shut down the computer runs fine. How can I stop this or find what it is trying to install, I've gone through device manager and everything seems fine. ThaNKS

Your machine might have corrupted files
run...
sfc /scannow (space after c)
put in your XP CD
any corrupted files will be uncorrupted

_________
Would appreciate help please, Have lost all sound, when troubleshooting and I get to bit that says to check Volume, get error message;

"there are no active mixer devices available. To install mixer device, go to control panel, add printers and other hardware and then click add hardware". Uninstalling and reinstalling the hardware makes no difference.

When I go sounds and audio in control panel it tells me that there is no audio device installed, however bringing up hardware in this "window" and also when checking in device manager it shows me that

Audio Codecs
Creative sound blaster 16 plug and play
game port for creative
Legacy video capture devices
media control devices
video codecs

are all installed and are working properly

I had been using the onboard sound device previously and I think that it was after updating the driver for this device that I lost all sound. I rolled back the driver and have uninstalled the device and reinstalled several times. _ Have been to gigabyte website and gotten updated drivers for the audio device and the motherboard and installed them. Troubleshooting for this device told me that everything was installed but when troubleshooting I was getting the message that this was not enabled on the bios. __ Have been through and through the bios and all sound is enabled. _ So then decided to try the creative sound blaster card to see if that would work. Still no go.

System is Intel Pentium P.111 processor, with SSE, 997 mhz, AMI bios. _ AGP Bios version 3.11.00.02. _ Motherboard is gigabyte 6VX7B-4X.

**
I had the same problem as you approx 2 hours ago.I got the exact message you received. About 3 weeks ago I had a minor problem with my Control Panel and some good member of this forum gave me a fix I might try, it didn't work then but it worked now for the exact problem you are having. What I was told to do was;
1-Put your XP CD in your drive (mine is called the Reinstallation CD)
2-When it loads you will see a blue screen, when the screen loads,click exit but leave it in the drive in case its needed to repair a file.
3-Click Start-->Run
4-Type sfc /scannow (there is a space between c and the forward slash) Click enter.
It would take a while, it took me about 10 minutes but it was well worth it, thank god. I hope it helps you.
_______________ Andrew
________________
Have Windows XP Home Edition and have installed NERO Express, and when I try to open to use, I get the statement that "could not open driver, trying system ASPI. I then click OK and program works ?

PLEASE ADVISE----------------NEED HELP TO CORRECT THIS PROBLEM.

kenny
**

I suspect a system aspi file has been overwritten or has been corrupted.

I'd first try this: Uninstall, then reinstall Nero (the ENTIRE program.) Try Nero again. If that doesn't work, in your RUN box type SFC /scannow you may be prompted to insert your XP disk; hopefully your Windows files will be refreshed. Try Nero again.

If this doesn't work, you may want to take a look here:
http://aspi.radified.com/

Not exactly fun reading. In the alternative, if simply clicking OK gets the program working, maybe you can just live with it? Good luck and please let us know. I posted a problem with Nero 6 and just may tackle what's in the radified site.

Brandon

______________

Word lost a very important file last night. When I looked for it it was nowhere to be found, not very happy. I ran Norton System Works Norton WIN Doctor and it found 97 problems ??????? It fixed them all luckily. My question is I have my c drive formated NTFS and my d drive partition with all my data, FAT32. Is this the most desirable setup. Can this cause problems. Why is this Microsoft stuff still so unreliable, big question I know. I was just hoping that XP would be better.

I also ran windows backup as a scheduled task and it backed up all the folders but not the files in them. When I run backup manually it worked fine except the backup was slightly smaller than the original. Am I doing something wrong or is this just another example of a Microsoft bug. Please help
**
Search for normal.dot _ and delete all instances of it.

This is the default Word doc. If it is corrupt in any
way Word will mis-behave.

Word will re-create it upon startup.

Merl
_______

hello:

I am experiencing troubles with my Sony Viao desktop with Windows XP.

I can connect to my ISP, but I can't call up any web pages, retrieve my email, or connect via FTP. I can call up sites by their IP, but not by their domain name. I've done a little searching and it seems my Winsock 2 is messed up, or something like that.

I can't find information on how to actually restore or fix my Winsock files that are corrupt or messed up. How do I fix this problem?

Any help is GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks.
**

The most common issues revolve around...

1. A firewall or popup stopper.

2. Using System Restore to when it worked.

3. Parasites that hijack the browers or more. _ Tools such as Spybot, Adaware and Housecall can detect such.

4. The ISP software has failed. Uninstall and reinstall.

5. Actually repair of the OS. _ Run SFC /SCANNOW and have your XP CDs handy. _ Start, Help and Support notes what this does.

Bob

______

We created 4 users on our XP home, but for us this is more trouble than it is worth. We now want to delete all but the administrator, but don't want to lose all the documents etc that are filed by user. How do we do that? And by the way, if anyone knows, I also want to un-partition my hard drive, but need instructions for dummies. Thanks.

**

If you are referring to using the Administrator account for daily use that is not advisable.

You should just create a user account that is a Computer Administrator and leave the main Administrator for maintenance purpose in case your user account gets corrupt.

______

_ IE6 does not start in XP Home limited account.
_ Tried sfc /scannow; tried removing and reinstalling IE version 6.0.2800.1106.xpsp2 ... SP1 Q... Q...
_ Existing limited accounts and newly created ones result in starting IE producing an error box saying that it cannot start, and offers to send to microsoft a hex dump.
_ Existing admin accounts and newly created ones have no trouble starting IE (but occassionally IE exits with a memory read exception).
Thanks, Paul
**

Use System Restore to the day before this trouble began.

If you want to troubleshoot, look at the EVENT VIEWER and supply what EVENTS and Event IDs you find there. _ But this issue is usually a problem of a corrupt file or permissions. _ Without you revealing some history, System Restore is the best option.

Bob




We find hundreds of posts about missing/corrupted DLLs there too, and registry problems, etc.

Here's one about the file association being screwed up in XP:

I have acrobat 5.0 installed(full version).
I installed acrobat reader 6.0 as well,
but Windoze still uses the 5.0 version to open
pdf files in internet explorer.

I set 6.0 to use browser integration, but it still uses
5.0 to open the pdf files.

I'm sure it's in the registry but I don't know where.

Thanks for any help,
Merl
**

shift right click and select open with Acrobat6, check the "always use this program" box, "OK".....

jonah
**
I tried that, but it still opens it in 5.0

Merl

_________


I accidently tried to open an exe file with adobe acrobat, I believe version 5.0, using the file property menu. I did not press to have it open it all the time - that box was left unchecked. However, now any type of exe file is opened by acrobat, this includes everything from internet explorer to media player, etc... is opened by acrobat. I had to switched users so I can find help.

Dave

**
Why don't you just use system restore to a time before this problem started.
**
I tried, didn't work. System restore was opened by acrobat.
**
Try uninstall Acrobat.
**
I already tried...didn't work. When I went in the control and pressed add/remove program it didn't start, acrobat did.
**

Try this fix by Doug Knox for file association:
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/file_assoc.htm
Select the fix for resetting the default EXE file association.
**

Dave, You may want to check out the "EXE File Association Fix for Windows XP" under the letter "E" at the link below.

http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_abc.htm

HTH
Larry

You are right that Windows XP is better, but it still isn't as good as OS X in this regard.

Just curious, does debating this issue on the forum with me make you a zealot too? :)

JS33,

It was just a parody. You don't need to explain that it doesn't apply to XP, right?

[Tronam]

I am neither advocating, nor lambasting either platform, but instead trying to establish a more balanced perspective on this tiresome debate. Much of what is said on both sides is blown out of proportion and skewed by strange platform loyalties that seem to require constantly bashing the other to make themselves feel better. I really dislike this kind of attitude and posting a big list of various snippets of users having computer problems is really childish. Anyone can load up Google, type in the <computer name> of choice + "crash" and come up with numerous entries, regardless of platform. But, a properly configured PC or MAC will run extremely well and both are flexible enough to allow high levels of customization based upon a user's needs. As a user of both, they have far more in common than not and share so many GUI conventions. Things like dock vs. task bar, shortcuts vs. aliases, start menu vs. apple menu, dragging drivers to the trash as opposed to uninstalling from device manager, etc.... is so darned petty. I don't have problems with any of these things and have extremely stable OSX and XP installations of over a year old doing everything from multi-track audio/MIDI production and computer graphics. Very smooth and without any of the problems that anti-XP and anti-Mac zealots constantly proclaim to the sky in all of their fervor.

So, am I to expect yet another long, googled response of technical issues to try and make Windows look worthless?

-Tronam

[tallscot]

I am neither advocating, nor lambasting either platform, but instead trying to establish a more balanced perspective on this tiresome debate.

If it's tiresome, don't contribute to it - simple enough.

I'm not balanced at all. I own both, and I think Windows is garbage compared to OS X. That irks you to no end that I have that opinion.

Much of what is said on both sides is blown out of proportion and skewed by strange platform loyalties that seem to require constantly bashing the other to make themselves feel better.

I'm not bashing anyone, only a product. And again, I didn't start this.

I really dislike this kind of attitude and posting a big list of various snippets of users having computer problems is really childish.

It was in response to you not believing my points I made. I needed evidence to support my claim, and provided you with it. Had you just agreed that there are issues with the registry and DLLs in Windows, I wouldn't have had to be so "childish".

Anyone can load up Google, type in the <computer name> of choice + "crash" and come up with numerous entries, regardless of platform.

But you can't go into Google and type in "OS X registry dll problems" and get numerous problems related to OS X. You get a bunch of Windows registry and DLL posts. And if you type in "windows XP registry dll problems", you get 77 pages worth.

That is the point I've made - OS X does have some problems, but does not have many problems that Windows XP does, like DLL, registry, virus, adware, spyware...

And there is nothing wrong with criticizing Windows. I prefer OS X over Windows. Get over it. I think OS X's GUI is superior. I think Windows XP is very inconsistent and requires a lot more hand-holding, and has more hassles and issues. Don't be personally offended by that.

[js33]

Tallscot,

You're starting to sound like Pianni/CaptainKirk on the Mac forums who was just banned today for expressing his "opinions".

Keep it up if you want but it won't serve any purpose. Another flame war. :o

I like OSX alright but in my opinion XP works just as well if not better. ;)

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

Big difference here - I'm posting in a thread called "Mac humor" in the PC forum.

I'm not going into the "LW crashes in XP" threads and being a troll like the PC trolls in the Mac forum.

Keep in context, please. :)

I like OSX alright but in my opinion XP works just as well if not better.

That's wonderful, and I respect your opinion. However, why do you feel that way? Can you explain why you think XP works just as well, if not better?

[WizCraker]

Originally posted by tallscot
Can you explain why you think XP works just as well, if not better?

Because it just does, do you have to have a reason for everything?

[js33]

Well because I can crank out 1000s of frames in LW, surf the web (at the same time), Assemble 1000s of frames and edit them in AE, crank out titles, CGs, and graphics in Photoshop, Do multitrack recording in Cubase and play realistic sounding Piano and other instruments in real time with GigaStudio, create Interactive presentations in Director and Flash, burn CDs and DVDs, Create web pages in GoLive, Create wmv files for the web with MS free WM9 encoder, Edit video with VegasVideo etc... and all that in one day! Not to mention play any game I could ever want to.

I'm sure you can probably do the same things in OSX but I can do all that in one day because my machine really cranks stuff out.

OK now for the OSX side. I just got Final Cut Express with the Premier trade in and it is OK but kind of slow as everything has to render. I like iDVD, iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie and all but they of course are kind of basic programs but work well.

I've only had the iMac for about a year and it works well but the 15" screen is a little small and text doesn't look very good on the LCD screen.

It could just be that I'm not comfortable enough with OSX yet but I feel like I can do things a lot faster in XP than I can in OSX.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

So your argument is there are more games. Sigh. Did you know there are more games for the Mac than the X Box? Did you know that you actually can't play every game you want on your PC? There are lots of games on X Box, PS/2, and Gamecube that aren't on the PC. No platform has all the games.

No offense, JS, but comparing your experience with iDVD, Final Cut Express and an iMac to your PC workstation with professional applications is kind of ridiculous.

FCP 4 does uncompressed, real time video. It's for professionals. Vegas is a nice application for DV.

AE is much faster in OSX on a dual 2 Ghz G5 than it is on a dual Xeon.

You use Flash? I love how I can just drag and drop from Photoshop into Flash in OS X. I wish I could do the same in XP.

You use Director? I love how I can just drag and drop my sound from my sound program into the cast window and they become cast members. I wish XP would do that.

In my opinion, multitasking in OS X is superior to XP. I'm using AE, Photoshop, Illustrator, LW, listening to an MP3, burning a CD, ripping a CD, surfing the Web, uploading to my FTP... all at the same time - no problem. Multitasking is not something that is superior in XP at all, in my opinion. XP locks me out sometimes, like when I'm mounting a network drive. OS X never locks me out. No matter what it's doing, including installing an OS X update or installing an application, I can always click over to other applications.

Maybe you have an iMac with very little RAM?

[js33]

Yes I said it was an iMac. It has 256mb. My PC came with 512 but now has 1gig ram.

Also with Director it is interesting that noone ever asks for a Mac playable Director file they only want PC.

As far as Director goes I can set up whatever apps I want to be editors and then when I click an audio file it loads it up in Soundforge or a graphic opens up in Photoshop etc...

As far as loading files I never tried the drag and drop as I always just import an entire folder of graphics or audio files at one time.

It is interesting comparing my PC workstation to the iMac considering the iMac cost $700 MORE than my PC workstation did.
It's a P4 2.53 Ghz, 1 gig ram, Pioneer A104 DVD burner, Liteon DVD-Rom, GeForce 4 Ti 4200/64mb ram, 100 gig HD, etc... and it cost $1100 well $1160 with the 1 gig ram update.

My iMac is the first version with the 15" screen, Superdrive, 256mb ram, 60 gig HD, etc... and it cost $1800. I know they are cheaper now but that's what it cost when I bought it.

True I don't have many Pro apps on the Mac except Lightwave but I still don't use it for that either.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

Yes I said it was an iMac. It has 256mb. My PC came with 512 but now has 1gig ram.

It's a P4 2.53 Ghz, 1 gig ram, Pioneer A104 DVD burner, Liteon DVD-Rom, GeForce 4 Ti 4200/64mb ram, 100 gig HD

So you are comparing a slower iMac (800 Mhz G4?) with 256 megs of RAM to a PC with 1 gig of RAM and a GeForce 4? That's not really a comparison on equal footing, is it?

A dual 2 Ghz G5 is not an iMac.

Also with Director it is interesting that noone ever asks for a Mac playable Director file they only want PC.

Same here! :) Yet I still produce my Director pieces on the Mac, and I'm more productive because of it.

As far as Director goes I can set up whatever apps I want to be editors and then when I click an audio file it loads it up in Soundforge or a graphic opens up in Photoshop etc...

You are correct, except that you have to manually import them through the open/save dialog that I hate so much in XP. In OS X, I don't. I just drag and drop as I create them. I'm more productive because of that.

The drag and drop support in OS X is superior to XP's, and it's a big time saver.

It is interesting comparing my PC workstation to the iMac considering the iMac cost $700 MORE than my PC workstation did.

Yes, you can build a cheap PC, that's true. But the dual 2 Ghz G5 is a great value when compared to dual Xeons and dual Opterons.

I never really claimed Macs were cheaper. It's just my opinion that the OS X Mac experience is better, and is worth the money. I make enough in one project to pay for either system, so it's not a huge deal, and the Mac is so much more productive, I don't mind paying more at all.

But the BOXX systems look nice, and a single processor system for $1,500 is going to be faster as a PC over a Mac.

I agree that PC hardware can be had for little money, and that there are more games on the PC than the Mac.

[js33]

So you are comparing a slower iMac (800 Mhz G4?) with 256 megs of RAM to a PC with 1 gig of RAM and a GeForce 4? That's not really a comparison on equal footing, is it?

Well considering the iMac cost $700 more no it is not equal. I should expect more from the Apple machine.

A dual 2 Ghz G5 is not an iMac.

I never said it was. :D

Also with Director it is interesting that noone ever asks for a Mac playable Director file they only want PC.

Same here! :) Yet I still produce my Director pieces on the Mac, and I'm more productive because of it.

Well I'm more productive because I have 2 19" monitors on the PC and can spread out the app and see all the palettes at once.

As far as Director goes I can set up whatever apps I want to be editors and then when I click an audio file it loads it up in Soundforge or a graphic opens up in Photoshop etc...

You are correct, except that you have to manually import them through the open/save dialog that I hate so much in XP. In OS X, I don't. I just drag and drop as I create them. I'm more productive because of that.

I've never had a problem with importing files.


The drag and drop support in OS X is superior to XP's, and it's a big time saver.

Yeah i guess it could help a little.


It is interesting comparing my PC workstation to the iMac considering the iMac cost $700 MORE than my PC workstation did.

Yes, you can build a cheap PC, that's true. But the dual 2 Ghz G5 is a great value when compared to dual Xeons and dual Opterons.


I never said I built this machine (although I could have). It is a VPRMatrix and offers alot of value for the money. It's been on 12-16 hours a day since I got it and has never crashed. I used to build my own machines but now it is cheaper to just buy one premade.


I never really claimed Macs were cheaper. It's just my opinion that the OS X Mac experience is better, and is worth the money. I make enough in one project to pay for either system, so it's not a huge deal, and the Mac is so much more productive, I don't mind paying more at all.

But the BOXX systems look nice, and a single processor system for $1,500 is going to be faster as a PC over a Mac.

Yeah the Macs have always and probably will always cost more.
I too make enough off each project to buy a Dual G5 and another PC everytime if only I didn't have other bills to pay. :D


I agree that PC hardware can be had for little money, and that there are more games on the PC than the Mac.

I like the fact that if I want to upgrade an older PC I can yank out the guts (motherboard and processor) and have a new computer pretty cheaply.
I don't really play games much anymore but yeah there are alot of them out there.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

Well considering the iMac cost $700 more no it is not equal. I should expect more from the Apple machine.

I thought the discussion was why is XP a better experience than OS X? If it is "Why is my 2.4 Ghz PC with 2 monitors and 1 gig RAM a better experience than my 800 Mhz iMac with a 15" monitor and 256 megs RAM?", I won't argue with you.

Well I'm more productive because I have 2 19" monitors on the PC and can spread out the app and see all the palettes at once.

And if you didn't have an all-in-one Mac, you could do the same on the Mac. I have 3 21" Princeton EO2010 monitors connected to my Mac. I just connected them to two video cards and they just worked - no drivers needed (OS X doesn't have drivers for monitors like XP).

That brings up a good point - multiple monitor support is better on the Mac. All of my applications behave the same way with multiple monitors. XP's support is inconsistent. Applications in XP have application windows, which have a grey background. This has to be expanded across multiple monitors in some applications so you can drag your palettes over to the other monitor. Games have a hard time with my dual monitor PC.

OS X is document-oriented, instead of application-oriented, so I can always drag anything across my monitors.

I've never had a problem with importing files.

I haven't had a "problem", really, it's just I think the open/save in XP is a joke. I hate the default view, with multiple columns requiring me to scroll to the right. The open/saves look different in various applications. Sometimes you have favorites, sometimes you don't. To customize that side pane on the left you have to hack XP. The open/saves never remember the view I had it set last, nor does it remember the size and location I had it.

OS X's open/save is consistent across all applications. You can customize the left pane all you want (Panther). You have a consistent pop-up list of favorites, recent places, and volumes mounted, in all open/saves.

Print dialogs are the same way, BTW - inconsistent in XP, consistent in X.

Yeah the Macs have always and probably will always cost more.

Well, the dual 2 Ghz G5 is $2,999. That's a great deal compared to a dual Xeon or Opteron. Apple doesn't have an answer for the $799 2.4 Ghz Pentium 4, though. They need a headless CPU with a G5 in it for $1K, IMHO.

I like the fact that if I want to upgrade an older PC I can yank out the guts (motherboard and processor) and have a new computer pretty cheaply.

I've made my 400 Mhz G3 PowerBook a 900 Mhz G3 for $399. I can't upgrade my PC laptop.

I've upgraded my six-year old PowerPC to a G4 for $399. I can't upgrade my six-year old PC because it has a proprietary mobo. I only buy ATX-compliant PCs now. :)

You can't build a Mac, which is good and bad. It's good in that developers don't have a billion different cpu/mobo/chipset/video card combinations to test their systems on. That's good because Macs tend to "just work" more than PCs because of that. It's not good because I am forced to buy either a Radeon 9600 or a 9800 with a new G5 when I might want a GeForce 4. So I sell the Radeon on eBay and buy a GeForce 4 on eBay. :)

[js33]

Tallscot,

I don't have anything to argue with you about really.
I like OSX but I'm more used to Windows so it is faster for me.

Look at this. A PC company with a Mac type website.

http://www.go-l.com/home/

Cheers,
JS

[Matt]

What a blatent rip-off, that's shameless! :rolleyes:

Still shows you can't copy without losing something, looks nowhere near as good as the original Apple site!

[WizCraker]

Yeah but having something like these Monitors (http://www.go-l.com/monitors/grand_canyon/features/index.htm) would be nice.

*Edit just saw the price $18,000 for it.

[Red_Oddity]

I know i'm speaking a bit out of bound here, having been a participant in some of the OS flamewars on the newtek forum (and growing tired of it, both OS are reasonably well and both need a lot of work, and neither are as stable as the developers like us to believe)...but guys, js33, tallscott...relax, sjeez, these are jokes, it was meant to be funny, if you can't laugh at any of those movies/flash sites no matter what platform you appreciate most, go see a psychiatrist...

*edit*, i really like those switch commercials and the spoofs (Apples first one keeps cracking me up (the porn star, the rest are mostly retards who should stay away from anything electrical), and the spoof with the gamer, come on, you have to laugh at that one, so much of it is true but it has been blown out of proportion, but you have to admit you recognise those problems and nags)

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[tallscot]

Just because I mentioned Mac in the subject line when I started the thread doesn't mean it was intended for Mac users. I didn't post it in the Mac forum. So in effect, you are trolling....

Give me a freakin break. First off, I'm a PC user. I own two of them. So much for your trolling claim. Secondly, if you are going to post something so retarded and inaccurate, you shouldn't be surprised if someone comes in and corrects the FUD in the video, much like JS did when I posted the spoof "Windows RG".

I said the guy was funny, but was incredibly inaccurate. I'd expect the same from a PC user if I posted something similar.

if you can't laugh at any of those movies/flash sites no matter what platform you appreciate most, go see a psychiatrist...

I am relaxed and JS is obviously relaxed. Looking at our thread, it's very calm. We are adults discussing why we like the product we use and what we don't like about another product. The only people who aren't relaxed are the people who, for some strange reason, don't want us having this discussion at all. Why do you care if JS and I are discussing the differences between the two? These boards are interactive, not linear like television. If you don't want to read the thread, don't click on it.

I don't have anything to argue with you about really.
I like OSX but I'm more used to Windows so it is faster for me.

That's cool, JS. No big deal.

Look at this. A PC company with a Mac type website.

Now that is very funny.

[js33]

Really Hrgiger and Red_Oddity,

Tallscot and I were having what I thought was a very civil discussion. We were just discussing the likes/dislikes of OSs.
I didn't think it was a flame war.

I said I thought the PC parody was funny and the Mac ones were as well.

It seems like you guys are the ones that need to chill.

Cheers,
JS

[GruvSyco]

Originally posted by tallscot
I said the guy was funny, but was incredibly inaccurate. I'd expect the same from a PC user if I posted something similar.


For what it's worth the guy in the first video actually states at the end of the video, it was all done on a Mac. I remember when this was circulating on CGTalk, the guy in the video actually posted stating he uses both Macs and PCs and they both crash about equally given the size of the files he edits. He also made not that when he is not at his day job, he does stand-up comedy. I think it was intended more as more of a parody of the commercials at the time than as any type of slander towards Macs.

[tallscot]

Good info. He may well have edited it on a Mac, but what he said is still incredibly inaccurate. Maybe he uses OS 9. I'd love to discuss it with him. He's obviously an old-school PC user who hates Macs and doesn't know enough about them to create accurate complaints about the Mac in a parody. The Switch commercials have people complaining about downloading drivers, BSOD, DLLs, etc. Those things actually happen in Windows. The video parody was pure FUD.

I use gigabytes in video myself and don't experience crashing in OS X. My friend, on the other hand, uses Discreet's Edit on a PC and has had a few huge crashes, losing a week's worth of work at one point because you can't back up these video projects because they are extremely large, spanning several hard drives in a RAID.

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[Fausto]

Just a thought, the site that is so similar to the apple one, which by the way is poorly designed as are many sites, including MS's site and this one, was probably designed by a mac user.

The honest truth the os debate is painfully boring, it doesn't matter what you use, it's what you turn out with what you use that matters. I've seen incredible work done on pentium pro's running NT 3.1, I was too busy admiring the work to try and proselytize them into using the XR 4000 running the orthodox, winamp, panther, x77.232, sorry it just didn't come up.

I find the eagerness of apple zealots to confront anyone that doesn't fall in line with the party line a bit annoying. I see there wasn't any concessions made regarding the obviously negative switch campaign.

Cheers,

[WizCraker]

It is almost becoming like that skyscraper thread.

HRGiger,

How did you do the shoes on your girl? did you use any refrences or did you just model from memory?

[Red_Oddity]

Originally posted by tallscot
The only people who aren't relaxed are the people who, for some strange reason, don't want us having this discussion at all. Why do you care if JS and I are discussing the differences between the two? These boards are interactive, not linear like television. If you don't want to read the thread, don't click on it.

Don't you worry, i'm relaxed, and the reason i care is because i hate to see this turning into another one of those threads that end up in shouting matches trying to kick eachothers choises of OS/software down, this thread was supposed to be funny.
And for your information, this is like television, for me :D (real tv sucks anyway, nothing decent on anymore)

[Jimzip]

Oh cripes..
I'm staying out of this thread..

Oh wait..



Jimzip :D

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[tallscot]

Bored with the debate? Don't click on the link to the thread - simple enough.

All the parodies I've seen on the Windows platform are inaccurate but it doesn't make them any less funny.

Windows RG is incredibly accurate, which is why it's so funny. Windows doesn't ever give mysterious error messages about DLL x or y? Windows never has a BSOD? There aren't annoying characters in the software, like Bob the paper clip? And what Bob says in the Windows RG parody is really funny. Ordering food is really funny.

Windows RG is very funny, because it's very silly. Run it again and go through all the items in the Start Menu. It's hilarious. A parody is funny when it has some truth to it, but exaggerated, like that Apple parody site JS posted. Apple does come off as elitist, but that site exaggerates it to make it funny.

The thing is that Mac parody video is funny to PC users because they know nothing about Macs. They watch the video and chuckle, "Yeah, Macs crash all the time. Ha ha ha!" Huh? No they don't.

I could do a video right now of me standing in front of a wall bitching about how my Windows PC can't even boot from a CD. "Ha ha ha, that's right, Windows can't even boot from a CD!" You would watch that and say, "Um, yes it can." Come on! That was funny! Windows can't boot from a CD! Oh yeah, and you can't upgrade Windows PC computers! Isn't that funny?! Ha ha ha ha ha! You can't even upgrade a PC with a new processor. They suck! Ha ha ha.

Come on, where's your humor? :)

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[tallscot]

The RG parody of Windows is VERY exaggerated and hardly a comparison to the actual windows operating system but I can see the humor in it.

What are you doing right there? You are telling me that it is inaccurate, right? You feel compelled to argue that the Windows RG parody doesn't really portray the actual Windows experience. Why are you doing that? Are you defensive about your OS choice?

Windows does have random error messages, but not nearly as many as Windows RG. Windows does crash, but not nearly as often as Windows RG. Windows does have annoying characters that are utterly stupid, along with Office.

However, since you mentioned it, if you're machine runs like the RG parody, then the only thing that's obvious is that you don't know how to use a windows machine.

Typical response to real Windows flaws - you don't know what you are doing.

The guy in LW PC who has to activate a parallel port that he doesn't have just so he can install LW on his PC just doesn't know what he's doing, right? Windows XP is perfect and anyone who has problems just doesn't know what they are doing.

Oh, please.

Why are you so defensive about your OS choice?

[Fausto]

Honestly I only see one person here that's defensive to the point of being odious. Give it a break, mac users suffer difficulties, xp users suffer difficulties, future os's will give some people fits and others will swear by them.

Why do you seem hell bent on indoctrinating others that disagree with you?


Cheerios


Fausto

[tallscot]

Nah, I'm not even close to being angry or upset.

It's my personal opinion that Windows is garbage compared to OS X, and a few people on this board can't accept that, including you. You want me to agree with you, and I don't. How is that me trying to indoctrinate you?

I don't care what computer you use, any more than I care what toaster you use. I have an opinion on which one is better, and you seem to be offended by that. Get over it. They are just computers and software. You don't need to take criticism of a product you use personally.

[Fausto]

Well I don't take it personally, now that would be insane wouldn't it? Just like the initial reaction you had to a rather funny parody. In fact, I found the parody almost as funny as the real commercial with stoner chick.

If you would have actually read what others have suggested you'd see that the only person taking offence is you. Your reaction has been nothing short of juvenile, and you may be a juvenile in which I'd respond with you've probably been tugging too hard and too often.

I clearly stated, it doesn't matter which you like, nor did I respond to your opinion that there's nothing close to OSX in quality, no one cares! Just you, and your troop of zealots.

Cheerios

[js33]

Originally posted by tallscot
A parody is funny when it has some truth to it, but exaggerated, like that Apple parody site JS posted. Apple does come off as elitist, but that site exaggerates it to make it funny.



Oh that site I posted is no parody. It's for real. Although there are a number of threads around the web claiming it is a hoax but I don't know if it is or not.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

If you would have actually read what others have suggested you'd see that the only person taking offence is you.

I'm not offended at all. I said it was funny, just inaccurate, just like a couple PC users said the Windows RG is inaccurate. I don't think you have read the thread at all, because clearly there are several people offended.

Your reaction has been nothing short of juvenile...you've probably been tugging too hard and too often.

LOL. OK, so criticizing the video and criticizing Windows is juvenile, but you suggesting that I'm masturbating too much isn't? Pot, meet the kettle.

I clearly stated, it doesn't matter which you like, nor did I respond to your opinion that there's nothing close to OSX in quality, no one cares! Just you, and your troop of zealots.

Nobody cares, and yet this thread is 4 pages long. I guess I was just replying to my own posts...

Who is my troop of "zealots"? Who are you referring to?

[Red_Oddity]

Erm...Tallscott...give it a rest man, it's getting embarrassing by now...sorry, but it is...

[hrgiger]

It is very embarrassing....

[robewil]

Originally posted by hrgiger
It is very embarrassing.... It's rather entertaining though. Just as long as no one makes fun of my Commodore 64:)

[WizCraker]

Originally posted by js33
Oh that site I posted is no parody. It's for real. Although there are a number of threads around the web claiming it is a hoax but I don't know if it is or not.

Cheers,
JS

L Computers seems to be a full company, I did some checking and the products they have are real. There target market is the same as Boxx High End machines for the Graphics, Video Editing, and Gaming markets. Also having 4GB of Solid State HD for running the OS and applications is pretty cool.

*edit I should also mention that L Computers is not the only site that uses the same Layout as Apple's Site Check out http://alina-indigo.narod.ru/

[Tabour]

Hello guys, this is the first threat I'v read in that forum.

All I can say is, starts funny ends embarrasing.

Guys go spend your energy on some nice moddeling / animations!

[nerdyguy227]

I use windows.

It works great.

I don't understand what all the problems are with XP.

The problems may be caused by trying to run really new software on an old or not completly compadibal PC. I learnd this the hard way!!!

(Sorry for any spelling mistakes)

[Red_Oddity]

Originally posted by robewil
It's rather entertaining though. Just as long as no one makes fun of my Commodore 64:)

HAH, my might MSX-1 will beat your crummy C-64 anyday...

[nerdyguy227]

Well, in case you wondering my comuter has:

3.06 GHz Hyperthreding enabled
Microsoft Windows XP Pro
2 GBs of RAM at 400 MHz
800MHz system BUS
Ge-Force FX 5900 ultra 27 GBs per sec.
DVD+ recorder
52x32x52 CD burner
SoundBlaster Audigy2 Platnem
5.1 SRS (surround sound) THX-SoundBlaster spekers
18.1 digital flatpanal display
Broadband cable internet serves

(IT IS REALLY FAST!!!)

Made By Alienware-http://alienware.com

It works great. I have no idea whar problems there are with PCs:confused: .

[robewil]

Originally posted by Red_Oddity
HAH, my might MSX-1 will beat your crummy C-64 anyday...
Top 10 reasons why the Commodore 64 is better than a Mac G5 running Panther and a dual Opteron running XP professional.

10. Function keys on C64 are conveniently located along the side of the keyboard. Much easier to reach.

9. You can't peek or poke a Mac or a PC.

8. Programs can load from a ROM cartridge, much faster than any hard drive.

7. No mouse, less desk clutter.

6. Boots up almost instantly.

5. To perform a "Shut Down", you actually switch a switch to the "off" position.

4. Fan noise, what fan noise?

3. C64 owners can proudly boast that their computer is the best selling computer model of all time.

2. Probably no chance of a virus ever messing up your data

...and the number one reason the Commodore 64 is superior to Macs and PC's is...

1. No Bill Gates or Steve Jobs..

[tallscot]

Erm...Tallscott...give it a rest man, it's getting embarrassing by now...sorry, but it is...

Yeah, real brilliant. You guys don't actually post much content, do you?

How hypocritical is it for you to tell me to give it a rest? By doing that, you bring the thread up to the top instead of letting it go yourself.

I think JS is the only one on this forum who actually contributed something. The rest of you fire off ad hominems one after the other.

[sbrandt]

What a great post... I'd forgotten completely about ''peek'' and ''poke''... I loved my C64. You don't have to buy a monitor either... I used my TV set !

[silvergun]

Windows is nowhere near the level of osX and even comparing microsofts rubbish to apples OS is an insult in itself. You sad pathetic pc owners should go out and get a life. Now begone you Dullards.

[nerdyguy227]

It may not be but its what I'm use to working on.

[sbrandt]

"...begone you dullards." My gosh, WHO talks like that? That was genuinely bizzare! Actually what *I* (and I'm sure many others) would like, is for Jobs to port OSX over to x86. MACs as superior machines is nonsense. They are currently at, or in some cases slightly above par with high end DOS machines, but when the new boards and chipsets for the AMD Hammers and Windoze for 64bit come out Apple with be left behind again and the Apple development cycle is so slow, they will stay behind for a Loooooong time!

[tallscot]

They are currently at, or in some cases slightly above par with high end DOS machines,

It depends on what software you are using. Some software is a lot faster on the G5. Some are slower. Some are similar.

but when the new boards and chipsets for the AMD Hammers and Windoze for 64bit come out Apple with be left behind again and the Apple development cycle is so slow, they will stay behind for a Loooooong time!

No, sorry. The retail version of Panther is released this Friday, and increases the speed of the G5 significantly.

IBM already has the 980 in beta, which is faster than the 970 (current G5 processor), and will debut in 2004 at 3 Ghz, a 50% increase. The 980 is a smaller chip that has SMT, which is IBM's version of HyperThreading, so it should see speed increases above its 50% clock speed increase.

The IBM PowerPC 970 and 980 are based off the Power4 server processor. The Power5 processor is being shown by IBM today and will make its way into the PowerPC 990.

These chips have serious legs. IBM is not Motorola. Their road map has the PowerPC processor at 25 Ghz in 2010, supposedly. In any case, the Mac will not suffer the slow ramping caused by Motorola anymore.

The dual 2.4 Ghz G5 will be announced in January, and the dual 3 Ghz will be announced in June/July. If you haven't seen Steve Jobs' keynote where he announced the G5, he proclaimed that it will be "...at 3 Ghz this time next year." That keynote was given in June of 2003.

By the time Longhorn is released with it's OS X-copied features, OS X Panther will have already been updated two more times.

[robewil]

Okay tallscot, all PC users are complete imbeciles for choosing their platform. All Mac users are absolute geniuses for having known all along that after years of having slower hardware and non-multitasking operating systems, they would have their day in the sun.

Okay all PC users, time to pack it in. Do your final shut down on your now useless PCs, the Mac users have won. They'll be taking over now, doing all the creative work that PC users can only dream of.

p.s. Isn't this thread supposed to be about humor? If nothing else, at least some of the Mac users here seem to have no sense of it.

[tallscot]

I've made no comments about the people who use Windows PCs (I'm one). I've only criticized Windows PCs, which was in response to:

There is NOTHING you can do on a Mac that you can't do on a PC, and vice-versa!

You don't have to take it personally.

[sbrandt]

Which of course demonstrates that Apple is moving ahead. All of that timeline would indicate a superior Apple product, EXCEPT that AMD, INTEL, MicroSlop, et. al. will all be moving ahead TOO. So, in the long run after all that LeapFrog of technology, Apple will still be dragging *** and cost way too much.

[robewil]

Originally posted by tallscot
I've made no comments about the people who use Windows PCs (I'm one). I've only criticized Windows PCs, which was in response to:

There is NOTHING you can do on a Mac that you can't do on a PC, and vice-versa!
You don't have to take it personally.

I haven't taken anything personally, that was the very point of my post.

By the way, I use PC's and Macs as well.

[hrgiger]

Anyway, back to the ORIGINAL point of the thread....

What's the difference between a Mac and an etch-a-sketch?

You don't have to shake the Mac to clear the screen.

[tallscot]

Which of course demonstrates that Apple is moving ahead. All of that timeline would indicate a superior Apple product, EXCEPT that AMD, INTEL, MicroSlop, et. al. will all be moving ahead TOO. So, in the long run after all that LeapFrog of technology, Apple will still be dragging *** and cost way too much.

Purely speculation on your part. Will the Opteron be 3 Ghz in nine months? Will the Xeon be 50% faster in nine months? Both the dual Opteron and dual Xeon cost more than the dual G5.

I can't utilize more than 4 gigs of RAM on the AMD systems until Windows 64 AMD comes out. From PCWorld on Windows 64 AMD:

But upgrading to XP 64 could mean giving up functionality without getting much in return. In fact, XP 64 looks like a throwback to Windows past: Its interface mirrors that of Windows 2000 or even Win 98. Microsoft has not disclosed what else will be in the OS, so it is possible that you'll still get most of XP's other features.

XP 64 won't have the 32-bit XP's support for DOS apps at all, nor will it run 16-bit apps (but it should have no trouble with 32-bit software). More important, 64-bit drivers for common hardware, such as printers, will be scarce when the OS debuts.

"People should not expect to take all of their existing hardware, get one of these 64-bit systems [both OS and PC], and get everything to run," says Greg Sullivan, Windows XP lead product manager. However, as with previous Windows releases, there will be some drivers bundled with the OS.

[tallscot]

:)

What's the difference between a brand new Windows XP dual Xeon and a 20-year old Macintosh? The Mac can boot with a blank floppy disk in the drive.

[js33]

Really Tallscot,

It's been fun but don't you have something better to do.;)

Cheers,
JS

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[sbrandt]

Rave on...
It's far from speculation. It's from 10 years as a reseller watching the way the technology unfolds and the patterns it sets. I've seen a decade of the hyper-detailed informed sounding techno-babble from a thousand better ''qualified'' sources and it still is the same bowl of pudding at the end. Apple has leap-frogged ahead for a short burst and will soon be overtaken by WinTel and will stay behind for a long time.

If the TRUELY gifted, engineers and brainoids at NewTek who know more about the business than 99% of the people in this forum put together, had choosen MacIntrash as the platform to run VideoToaster on, ...then... I would be considering a Mac.

[tallscot]

JS,

I find it a bit perplexing that you are asking me if I have something better to do when you yourself are in Macintosh threads bashing the Mac because it doesn't have professional video cards when the card you use on your PC is a GeForce 4 Ti.

hrgiger,

Funny! Here are a couple funny ones:

Windows XP stands for eXtra Proprietary.

> WinErr: 001
> Windows loaded - System in danger
> WinErr: 002
> No Error - Yet
> WinErr: 003
> Dynamic linking error - Your mistake is now in every file
> WinErr: 004
> Erroneous error - Nothing is wrong
> WinErr: 005
> Multitasking attempted - System confused
> WinErr: 006
> Malicious error - Desqview found on drive
> WinErr: 007
> System price error - Inadequate money spent on hardware
> WinErr: 008
> Broken window - Watch out for glass fragments
> WinErr: 009
> Horrible bug encountered - God knows what has happened
> WinErr: 00A
> Promotional literature overflow - Mailbox full
> WinErr: 00B
> Inadequate disk space - Free at least 50MB
> WinErr: 00C
> Memory hog error - More Ram needed. More! More! More!
> WinErr: 00D
> Window closed - Do not look outside
> WinErr: 00E
> Window open - Do not look inside
> WinErr: 00F
> Unexplained error - Please tell us how this happened
> WinErr: 010
> Reserved for future mistakes by our developers
> WinErr: 013
> Unexpected error - Huh ?
> WinErr: 014
> Keyboard locked - Try anything you can think of.
> WinErr: 018
> Unrecoverable error - System has been destroyed. Buy a new
> one. Old Windows licence is not valid anymore.
> WinErr: 019
> User error - Not our fault. Is Not! Is Not!
> WinErr: 01A
> Operating system overwritten - Please reinstall all your
> software. We are terribly sorry.
> WinErr: 01B
> Illegal error - You are not allowed to get this error.
> Next time you will get a penalty for that.
> WinErr: 01C
> Uncertainty error - Uncertainty may be inadequate.
> WinErr: 01D
> System crash - We are unable to figure out our own code.
> WinErr: 01E
> Timing error - Please wait. And wait. And wait. And wait.
> WinErr: 01F
> Reserved for future mistakes of our developers.
> WinErr: 020
> Error recording error codes - Additional errors will be
> lost.
> WinErr: 042
> Virus error - A virus has been activated in a dos-box. The
> virus, however, requires Windows. All tasks will
> automatically be closed and the virus will be activated
> again.
> WinErr: 079
> Mouse not found - A mouse driver has not been installed.
> Please click the left mouse button to continue.
> WinErr: 103
> Error buffer overflow - Too many errors encountered.
> Additional errors may not be displayed or recorded.
> WinErr: 678
> This will end your Windows session. Do you want to play
> another game?
> WinErr: 683
> Time out error - Operator fell asleep while waiting for
> the system to complete boot procedure.
> WinErr: 815
> Insufficient Memory - Only 50,312,583 bytes available

[tallscot]

It's far from speculation.

Really? Wow. Tell me, what will the Dow be at two months from now? Who is going to win the World Series? Who is going to win the Super Bowl?

Since you aren't speculating...

[Darttman]

Only a three percent market share...why?

[sbrandt]

I'm not, nor have I ever been in those businesses. Obviously I don't know anything about them. How could I possibly know what their trends could be? Your just getting wild and idiotic now. I DO have a good idea though. Go to a dedicated Mac forum and shoot your sophomoric mouth off there.

[js33]

Originally posted by tallscot
JS,

I find it a bit perplexing that you are asking me if I have something better to do when you yourself are in Macintosh threads bashing the Mac because it doesn't have professional video cards when the card you use on your PC is a GeForce 4 Ti.



Well my card works fine. Also I was trying to help Turbo with info about PC cards. She was/is asking for advice and all you can do is shoot her down.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

. How could I possibly know what their trends could be?

Sorry, but just because you have been a reseller for ten years doesn't mean you have magical powers and know what is going to happen in the future. You are speculating, by the very definition. You don't have inside information. You don't know what unannounced products will be. You don't know what new technology will be invented. You are speculating. Get over yourself.

Only a three percent market share...why?

Because they didn't license their OS.

General Motors is the #1 selling automobile manufacturer. I guess that means those cars provide the best experience.

[tallscot]

Well my card works fine.

Your gaming card works fine on your PC, and they work fine on the Mac. So what's up with your "crappy cards" comments? The Radeon 9800 is better than the one you have, and you say the cards on the Mac are crappy.

She was/is asking for advice and all you can do is shoot her down.

Not really. What advice was she asking for? It was really only a bitching session about the selection of 3D cards for the Mac.

She said she bought a G5 and then bought a PC nVidia 256 meg 3D card for it and she was surprised that it wouldn't work in the G5 even though a thread she was in before she bought it told her that those cards are PC-only. How can someone pay hundreds of dollars for a PC-only video card and not know that it doesn't work on the Mac?

She was bitching about Apple, when she had no reason to blame Apple for her own mistake.

She said 64 meg cards are too slow. I suggested she buy the retail version of the Radeon 9800.

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[robewil]

Originally posted by tallscot
These chips have serious legs. IBM is not Motorola. Their road map has the PowerPC processor at 25 Ghz in 2010, supposedly. In any case, the Mac will not suffer the slow ramping caused by Motorola anymore.

The dual 2.4 Ghz G5 will be announced in January, and the dual 3 Ghz will be announced in June/July. If you haven't seen Steve Jobs' keynote where he announced the G5, he proclaimed that it will be "...at 3 Ghz this time next year." That keynote was given in June of 2003.
Originally posted by tallscot
You are speculating, by the very definition. You don't have inside information. You don't know what unannounced products will be. You don't know what new technology will be invented

Now, who's being speculative?

[tallscot]

Well, I'll take the word of a 10 year reseller before I'd take my word from just "a guy who really likes macs".

LOL! You don't have a clue what my background is. But it doesn't matter, I'm saying the guy is speculating. Obviously, he is. No one knows if Intel will be faster than AMD, or if IBM will be faster than both, etc. It's all speculative.

Now, who's being speculative?

I am obviously being speculative. It would be ridiculous for me to suggest otherwise. The bit about the G5 being 3 Ghz next year is based on the Jobs' keynote, so that's not speculative. But the bit about 25 Ghz in 2010 is speculative, and I even said "supposedly".

Making a statement like, "Apple is going to be much faster than Intel and AMD, and they will be far behind..." is obviously a very speculative statement.

[js33]

Originally posted by tallscot
Well my card works fine.

Your gaming card works fine on your PC, and they work fine on the Mac. So what's up with your "crappy cards" comments? The Radeon 9800 is better than the one you have, and you say the cards on the Mac are crappy.

She was/is asking for advice and all you can do is shoot her down.

Not really. What advice was she asking for? It was really only a bitching session about the selection of 3D cards for the Mac.

She said she bought a G5 and then bought a PC nVidia 256 meg 3D card for it and she was surprised that it wouldn't work in the G5 even though a thread she was in before she bought it told her that those cards are PC-only. How can someone pay hundreds of dollars for a PC-only video card and not know that it doesn't work on the Mac?

She was bitching about Apple, when she had no reason to blame Apple for her own mistake.

She said 64 meg cards are too slow. I suggested she buy the retail version of the Radeon 9800.

Oh the ATI cards work fine.
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5887

Then why is there an 18 page ***** fest about ATI cards then?
And why did it take ATI 8 months to fix it?
Yeah I would call that "crappy cards". ;) Wouldn't you?

Also Turbo spent $8000 on a G5 hoping for a better card for 3D only to find out that no decent ones exist on the Mac at the moment. I agree she should have investigated the situation better before taking the plunge though.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

Oh the ATI cards work fine.
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthr...=&threadid=5887

Then why is there an 18 page ***** fest about ATI cards then?
And why did it take ATI 8 months to fix it?

Yes, they fixed it.

And according to the "LW Crashes on Windows XP" thread, the nVidia drivers aren't perfect on Windows:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11968&highlight=nvidia+driver

There are several posts in PC LW about problems with nVidia - go figure.

Also Turbo spent $8000 on a G5 hoping for a better card for 3D only to find out that no decent ones exist on the Mac at the moment. I agree she should have investigated the situation better before taking the plunge though.

Yeah, I could buy an $8K PC right now and be miffed that I can't run Final Cut Pro 4 on it. I agree that one should do very basic research into what you are buying before you spend $8K.

Again, Turbo wants more than a 64 meg card. There is a 128 meg card available. She could get that. You have a 128 meg card and you are happy with it.

The Radeon 9800 is better than the GeForce 4 Ti, and you feel the GeForce 4 Ti is fine, so I would say that there is a decent card on the Mac.

[js33]

Tallscot,

I've never said that ATI hardware is bad. It is and always will be the drivers. ATI just doesn't keep on top of it like nVidia does.
Also the Radeon 9800 is being compared to an over year old Ti 4200 that ought to tell you something. ;)

Cheers,
JS

[sbrandt]

You have no background. You're furiously scanning search engins for bits and pieces of techno-babble that support what you would like to be true, and then cutting and pasting other people's research and publications.

You're a half-baked wise-*** that for some profoundly manic reason thinks Mac is synonymous with Gospel.

In a way I kinda' wish you worked for me... then I could fire you.

[tallscot]

The fact remains that there is a decent 3D card on the Mac. It is complete misinformation to suggest otherwise.

Also the Radeon 9800 is being compared to an over year old Ti 4200 that ought to tell you something.

You said the cards for the Mac are crappy, JS, but you are happy with your Ti 4200. That should tell you something.

[js33]

I'll say it again. ATI writes crappy drivers especially for OpenGL.
It's not about the hardware. IT's about the drivers.
What part don't you understand?

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

You have no background.

Actually, I do, but my background doesn't affect how your statements are speculative.

You're furiously scanning search engins for bits and pieces of techno-babble that support what you would like to be true, and then cutting and pasting other people's research and publications.

Such as?

You're a half-baked wise-*** that for some profoundly manic reason thinks Mac is synonymous with Gospel.

I think Windows is garbage, that's all. Why do you care what I think?

In a way I kinda' wish you worked for me... then I could fire you.

I haven't had a desire to sell computers for over a decade now. I prefer running my own company that creates multimedia for corporations, thanks.

[sbrandt]

The part he doesn't WANT to understand.

[tallscot]

What part don't you understand?

Oh, I understand you completely. Your problem is you ignore facts and simply repeat the same FUD over and over.

The Radeon 9800 works fine on the G5, and is faster than the nVidia card, as shown by several Mac publications. There are no issues with the drivers for that card. They are not crappy.

[sbrandt]

Actually you DON'T.

And at the outset of this, I should have remembered one of Freud's instructions to new students just going out to work with mentally disordered patients: "Never under any circumstances, ever, argue with a neurotic."

Get some professional help. I really, seriously mean that.

In the meanwhile... rave on.

[js33]

ATI card thread on the Mac forum.
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5887

Everyone is dying to get a nVidia card and threatening lawsuits to ATI. Do I need to say more?
I don't think so.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

Actually you DON'T.

Yes, I do - infinity.

Get some professional help. I really, seriously mean that.

I think anyone who gets as angry as you do and starts personally insulting strangers the way you do, and who thinks his opinion of the future is reality is the one who needs some time away from the computer.

Everyone is dying to get a nVidia card and threatening lawsuits to ATI. Do I need to say more?

Yes, you do need to say more - that the problem in that thread was with Radeon 8500 and 9000 cards, not the 9600 and 9800. And you also need to add that the problem was fixed.

Again, JS, the Radeon 9800 works great on the G5 and there are no issues with the drivers, and it's much faster than the GeForce 4 Ti that you are happy with.

[js33]

Tallscot,

Well I hope it works well for you. Also if it does work so well why doesn't every Mac owner just get one of those and call it a day?

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

Also if it does work so well why doesn't every Mac owner just get one of those and call it a day?

It requires a 4X AGP slot, which not everyone has. Also, it's brand new. I think it was released just a couple of weeks ago. Finally, many Mac users are doing just that.

[js33]

Well good luck to you. I hope it works well then.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

Thanks.

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[tallscot]

Why are you trying so desperately to convince us that Macs are superior to pc's and that Windows is garbage compared to OSX?

Actually, if you read the thread again, you will see it started with Matt's statement:

There is NOTHING you can do on a Mac that you can't do on a PC, and vice-versa!

I responded to that, and you and others responded to me, etc., etc.

Had that comment not been made, and had your "Mac humor" thread not been started, I would not have made my post.

Why do you care that I make these posts? Why do you continue to post in this thread? Why ask why?

And you really shouldn't get on your high horse about maturity, because your posts do not reflect a mature person at all. I completely accept that it is immature to argue which platform is better. A mature person would ignore all of this. I never claimed to be mature.

Obviously, most computer users either think A) Macs are garbage or B) don't care how good a mac is or C) Just like a damn mouse with more then one button.

And if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that you can take the same lame Microsoft 2-button USB mouse with a scrollwheel and plug it right into a Mac and it will work instantly. Of course, there are lots of 2-button mice that work on the Mac, but I threw out my Apple mouse and the mouse that came with my PCs and put a 5-button mouse on both.

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[mattclary]

Originally posted by hrgiger
then I apologize, little guy

LMAO! :cool:

[tallscot]

And I already said I didn't care about your posts.

No, you don't care at all, that's why you keep insulting me and replying to me. Uh huh. Sure.

And wow, a Mac is like a playstation in that if you want another controller, or a mouse with more then one button you have to go out and buy it seperately. Good call Steve Jobs. Way to move into the 21st century.

Real juvenile of you.

If you want another controller for your PC, guess what? You have to buy it separately. At least this thread isn't a total loss - you now know Macs support multi-button mice.

If you want a real mouse with a PC, you have to buy it separately - go figure.

But I find that I'm buying more things for my PCs to bring them into the 21st century, like FireWire PCI cards, or Bluetooth, or gigabit ethernet.

Hey, did you hear that Dell has stopped including the floppy drive? Woo hoo! Way to join the 21st century, Dell!

:)

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[tallscot]

I whole-heartedly agree that a one-button mouse with the "fastest personal computer in the world" is a bit of a joke. But my point was that if the G5 came with the same mouse that the vast majority of PCs come with, I would have replaced that too. I would replace the 3-button mouse too. I prefer the 5-button mouse.

But I agree that, at the very least, the standard 3-button (two big buttons with the scroll wheel being a button too) should be included with Macs. OS X supports them natively, no extra driver required.

[Fausto]

PC / mac performance real numbers, cost, performance comparison. Let's deal with reality here, not subjective opinions, prejudices, likes and dislikes.

CINEBENCH 2003 / OPTIMIZED FOR THE G5

Soft, OGL, and T&L

285 1260 2125 (PC Numbers Radeon 9800 pro)

271 777 1371 (Mac Numbers Radeon 9800 pro)

Cinebench scores PC 588
Cinebench scores Mac 516

Soft = Cinema 4D's own internal software GL
OGL =OpenGL
T&L = Texture and Lights,

In all cases higher numbers are better/faster.

These are stats from this site http://www.imashination.com/bench.html

This is a Cinebench score, based on real world application performance.

Cost comparison: PC

The cost of the Radeon 9800 pro for the Mac is 399.00/USD
The cost of the Radeon 9800 pro for the PC is 399.00/USD

So you get half the performance for the same amount of money, that's about right. Near equal performance system wise for about 25% more

System cost: PC (through in the space ball just to get the price equal to mac)

Dell Precision™ Workstation 450 Desktop: Intel® Xeon™ Processor, 2 x 3.06GHz, 512K Cache

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional, SP1
Intel Hyper-Threading: Hyper-Threading
Memory: 2GB (4x512) DDR266
Keyboard: PS/2,
Mouse: PS/2,Dell, 2 button w/ scroll
Monitor: NONE
Graphics Cards: ATI, FIRE GL™ X1,128MB,1-2 VGA/DVI, (dual monitor capable)
Speakers: High-End Speakers,2.0,HarmonKardon,HK395
Sound Card: Sound Blaster® Audigy II with onboard 1394
Productivity Software: Dell Precision Workstation
CD-ROM, DVD, and Read-Write Devices: 4X DVD+RW/+R with Roxio® Easy CD Creator and DVD decode
First Hard Drive: 120GB SATA, 7200 RPM Hard Drive with DataBurst Cache™ 120SAT
Floppy Drive: 1.44MB FDD (Look Ma, a Floppy drive)
Full-size,no-bezel,F3 bay-1ST SOURCE
Hardware Support Services: 3Yr Parts + Onsite Labor (Next Business Day)

Price 4972.00/USD


Cost Comparison Mac:

• Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
• 2GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x1GB
• 160GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
• SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English
• Logitech Z-680 THX 5.1 Speakers & Monster 2-meter Cable
• APP for Power Mac (w/ or w/o display) - Enrollment Kit

Price 4913.00/USD

So it appears to me, you're getting less of a computer given the fact that the DELL has a much higher quality video board, Pro level, versus a gaming board and better system performance for about the same money. Additionally you get better long term protection and service with DELL'S, next day in office service. This I might add is for the full 3 years, it is second to none really.

So how big a story is the G5, well for apple and mac lovers it's good news, it is definately the fastest mac yet, but in comparison to the big picture, it's just another PC in a sea of many PC's despite the OSX shell, it's a PC!.

What I find quite humerous is how mac lovers (zealots) are now endorsing IBM and UNIX, there was a time when....... well you all know the story.

Cheers

[Tronam]

Oh goodness... more fuel to the fire. :(

Cue the Tallscot rebuttal...

[tallscot]

OK, so I guess we have a double-standard, huh? A PC user defends his platform choice, and nobody scolds him. So I guess you do care.

Fausto, Cinebench is indeed faster on the dual Xeon than the dual G5. But it is a bit flawed to pick a single application's OpenGL performance and rendering performance and apply that performance to all applications, don't you agree?

For example, the dual 2 Ghz G5 does the LW 7.5c raytrace scene in 63 seconds with Jaguar, and a dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon does it in 59 seconds. Lightwave hasn't even been optimized. Cinebench saw a 26% increase in performance after optimization for the G5. I would expect similar increases to LW's performance after optimization. Hopefully LW 8 will be optimized.

But let's look at the performance of other applications, OK?

From barefeats.com:

After Effects 6:
First 10 frames of the Night Flight benchmark
Dual 2 Ghz G5 - 355 seconds
Dual 2.4 Ghz Xeon - 655 seconds

Bryce 5 Render Beach Chair
Dual 2 Ghz G5 - 22 seconds
Dual 2.4 Ghz Xeon - 49 seconds

From Ars Technica:
Photoshop PSBench7 normalized:
Dual 2 Ghz G5 - 555
Dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon - 490
(higher is better)

From PCMagazine's review of G5:

Adobe Acrobat Covert Word Document:
Dual 2 Ghz G5 - 84 seconds
Dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon - 95 seconds

Adobe Acrobat Convert Nine Images:
Dual 2 Ghz G5 - 107 seconds
Dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon - 192 seconds

Sorenson Squeeze Encode Video:
Dual 2 Ghz G5- 5:22
Dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon - 8:44

Avid Xpress Pro Encode Video:
Dual 2 Ghz G5 - 620 seconds
Dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon - 813 seconds

Luxology:
http://www.luxology.net/company/wwdc03followup.aspx

"The G5 is double the performance [of dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon Dell], and the consistency of the frame rates is better on the Mac." - Brad Peebler, President, Luxology

Pixar:
"After running our renderman benchmarks, we can now say the G5 is the fastest desktop in the world."

Kaydara:
http://www.kaydara.com/press/index.php?filename=current/2003/20030723
MONTRÉAL - July 23, 2003 - Kaydara Inc., a leader in 3D character animation and motion capture solutions, today announced that it has selected Mac® OS X as the single Unix-based operating system for the development of the upcoming release of Kaydara MOTIONBUILDER™ 5, an award winning real-time 3D character animation software package.

“Based on feedback from customers and our current industry projections, we do not believe the 3D market warrants the development and support of two different Unix-based platforms,” said Michel Besner, president of Kaydara. “Mac OS X is a much more powerful and reliable solution for graphic artists and 3D professionals. With the release of the new Power Mac G5, we believe Mac OS X is the platform of the future, which is why we have decided to concentrate our Unix development efforts solely for this market.”

The Power Mac G5 is the world’s fastest personal computer and the first with a 64-bit processor, which makes the Power Mac G5 a breakthrough in desktop processing power. This unprecedented power combined with features such as the Aqua user interface, QuickTime®, and Adobe Photoshop make it an ideal solution for all professional 3D artists.

“With world class hardware and a powerful, standards-based operating system the Mac has become the platform of choice for creative professionals,” said Ron Okamoto, Apple’s vice president of Worldwide Developer Relations. “Kaydara's commitment to Mac OS X is important to raising the bar for real-time 3D character animation and continuing the momentum of Mac OS X. The powerful Quartz graphics engine with native OpenGL support makes Mac OS X the best platform for game developers and high-end professionals in the film and broadcast industries.”

Dell PWS 650
Dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon 1 MB L3
Windows XP Pro
1 gig DDR266 RAM (max. 4 gigs)
533 Mhz FSB
120 GB Serial ATA HD 7200 RPM
4X DVD+RW/R
128 meg ATI Fire GL VGA/DVI
Sound Blaster Audigy II with 1394
Modem
3 year Windows support
3 year limited warranty plus 3 year NBD on-site
1 8X AGP 3.0 slot
2 32 bit/33 Mhz PCI slots
3 64 bit/100 Mhz PCI-X slots
6 USB 2 ports
1/8 " analog sound in/out
2 FireWire 400 ports

$5,291

Apple G5
Dual 2 Ghz IBM 970
OS X 10.3 Panther
1 gig DDR400 RAM (max 8 gigs)
1 Ghz FSB
160 GB serial ATA HD 7200 RPM
4X DVD+RW/R
128 meg ATI Radeon 9800 DVI/ADC
integrated sound
modem
3 years OS X support
3 year hardware warranty
3 year bundled software support
1 8X AGP 3.0 slot
1 64 bit/133 Mhz PCI-X slot
2 64 bit/100 Mhz PCI-X slots
1 FireWire 800 port
2 FireWire 400 ports
3 USB 2.0 ports
2 USB 1.1 ports
Optical digital audio in/out
1/8" analog audio in/out
iLife software (iTunes, iDVD, iMovie, iPhoto)

$3,798

* The Mac has a larger HD.
* The Mac can have twice as much RAM.
* The Mac has faster RAM.
* The Mac has a faster frontside bus.
* The Mac's video card has dual digital support, the PC has 1 analog and 1 digital.
* The PC's Fire GL card has the same amount of RAM as the Radeon 9800. I'd like to see benchmarks that show the Fire GL being faster in Lightwave. I have posts from PC users on the LW forums that claim there is no speed difference.
• Apple's APP gives you free OS X, hardware, and bundled software support for 3 years. I had to add 3 year Windows tech support on the Dell.
* The Mac has faster PCI-X slots
* The Mac has a faster FireWire 800 port
* The Mac has optical audio in/out
* The Mac has better software bundled
* The Mac has a better OS

* The PC may have a faster video card, but I need proof of that.
* The PC has more PCI slots.

Now, if you want to buy the same monitor and speakers and 5-button mouse for these two systems, that would be great.

Note - barefeats.com does not have a dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon, but obviously the speed difference between the 2.4 Ghz and the 3.06 Ghz Xeon is not going to overtake the G5 in After Effects or Bryce.

The PC used in PCMag's review was the Dell Precision 650.

[robewil]

Originally posted by Tronam
Oh goodness... more fuel to the fire. :(

Cue the Tallscot rebuttal...
He was right on cue.:)

[Tronam]

I'm still waiting for the humor. :)

[robewil]

I think the humor is seeing how Tallscot gets so worked up. He's sure going through a lot of trouble to show his point of view and defend his favorite piece of silicon.:)

[tallscot]

Yeah, just like Fausto and JS, though I don't think any of us were "worked up".

[Tronam]

I admire his tenacity and desire to be right, but I can't help wondering why he bothers expending the energy. I find it interesting that with this communication medium in particular, opinions almost never change, they instead become even more polarized.

[Fausto]

TallScot,

I can't believe how easily you're goaded. I was curious how long it would take for you to respond well you didn't disapoint. Man shouldn't you be on a ledge somewhere?

Cheers,

[robewil]

Originally posted by tallscot
Yeah, just like Fausto and JS, though I don't think any of us were "worked up".
If you say so. If I had output as much verbage as you did on your previous post, I'd know I was "worked up"

[tallscot]

I can't believe how easily you're goaded.

If that makes you feel better, OK.

I think it's sad that when someone criticizes your platform, you have to start personally insulting them. It's just a computer folks. So the G5 is faster, less expensive, and has a superior OS. It's not the end of the world. Just let it go.

[tallscot]

I admire his tenacity and desire to be right, but I can't help wondering why he bothers expending the energy.

Indeed, why do you expend the energy yourself? Why are you on this forum making critical comments about strangers? Why do I bother you enough to evoke a response?

If I had output as much verbage as you did on your previous post, I'd know I was "worked up"

I guess you get worked up easier than I do.

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[tallscot]

Yes, that applies to everyone on this thread. Group hug indeed.

[js33]

Can't you just feel the love. :p

Hey Tallscot have you used DVD SP?

Cheers,
JS

[Triple G]

Just for the record, I'm a Mac user, I love OSX, and I still managed to find the video funny. It's a comedy skit for crying out loud, not a factual presentation that should be revered as the truth. Some people need to learn how to laugh, and let things go. :)

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[tallscot]

You are all heathens who believe in moral equivalency - no good, no evil. Jobs has left your hearts and he, the creator, has left a void in your souls. The beast has enticed you with game selection and cheap whores of computers. You have lost your ways.

OK, so you wanted humor.

JS, I have DVD SP 2, and it is incredible. I highly recommend it when you get a G5. Compressor is the fastest encoder I've ever used. It uses Rendezvous and automatically creates a cluster with all your Macs on your LAN. They just show up right there in a pop-up menu when you load Compressor.

And Final Cut Pro 4 is a dream. It comes with Soundtrack, which is incredibly intuitive and makes it very easy to create really nice custom tracks. LiveType is so wonderful, I can dump After Effects for all of my text FX.

[tallscot]

Just for the record, I'm a Mac user, I love OSX, and I still managed to find the video funny. It's a comedy skit for crying out loud, not a factual presentation that should be revered as the truth. Some people need to learn how to laugh, and let things go.

Well, as I already pointed out, the bulk of my PC vs Mac comments were in reply to a comment made by someone else.

And there were PC users who couldn't resist to tell me that the Windows RG Flash movie is not an accurate representation of Windows XP.

[js33]

Originally posted by tallscot
JS, I have DVD SP 2, and it is incredible. I highly recommend it when you get a G5. Compressor is the fastest encoder I've ever used. It uses Rendezvous and automatically creates a cluster with all your Macs on your LAN. They just show up right there in a pop-up menu when you load Compressor.

And Final Cut Pro 4 is a dream. It comes with Soundtrack, which is incredibly intuitive and makes it very easy to create really nice custom tracks. LiveType is so wonderful, I can dump After Effects for all of my text FX.

Will DVDSP run on an iMac 800 Mhz G4 w/Superdrive?
I have Final Cut express and it runs pretty good.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

Yes, it will run on that iMac. You have at least 256 megs of RAM, right?

RAM is cheap. Consider getting more. :)

[js33]

Yes right now it has 256 mb. I have 3 256 mb sticks in my older PC and I think it is the same type of ram the Mac uses so I may take a 256 mb stick out of the PC and out it in the iMac.

I just bought Panther and DVDSP 2 tonight and I'm installing Panther right now. It's not as scary upgrading a Mac OS as it is a PC OS. :D

Also I will start using the Mac more now that I have DVDSP.

If I like it I may have to sell the iMac and get a DP G5.
Of course I will also probably get a dual Opteron as well.

I say use what ever works best fr the job at hand. I use Lightwave on the PC because it works better overall and use the Mac for video editing and DVD creation.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

It's not as scary upgrading a Mac OS as it is a PC OS.

Which is why XP still isn't the most widely used Windows. I think 98 still is used by more than any other Windows.

I upgraded my OS X since beta, never needing a format of the HD, and I have never had any issues.

With Panther, I did the Archive Install, just to be safe. It's a wonderful upgrade. Exposé will change the way you work.

[js33]

I upgraded to Panther last night and installed Xtools and DVDSP2 and it all worked fine.

Since I'm still pretty new to OSX I feel like things are hidden from me. When you install a new program it doesn't automatically make itself known so you have to go find it and drag the icon to the dock. Or is there a way to do this on install?

Also DVDSP2 makes Adobe Encore look and work like a shareware program. Granted it did create a useable DVD for me but I didn't like the method of working in it.

I have yet to do anything with DVDSP2 other than load a tutorial project but the program is well laid out and seems selfexplanitory.

Also I find myself going where is all the stuff that Panther was supposed to install. It just seems like you have to dig everything out to use it.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

Applications are installed in the Applications folder. You don't have to go fishing, really. :)

I'm glad you like DVD SP 2. Good luck with it! :)

[js33]

Yes I know that. Everything is organized pretty simply. I guess I'm just used to Windows when it installs an app it puts it in the Start menu and an icon/shortcut on your desktop so you can just click on it. On the Mac it doesn't automatically add an app to your dock. It's not a big deal.

I like the way DVDSP seems like your creating a movie instead of just slinging files around like on the PC.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

OS X is designed so that you don't use your desktop. You can use it, but it's better not to. Same with XP, honestly. Why use something that is always covered up? The desktop is a flawed UI design, and both MS and Apple have moved away from it. The only reason OS X has desktop options is because Mac users made such a stink about the first betas not being able to, and Apple put it in there for them.

The Dock doesn't hold every single application on my drive. It only has icons for the ones I use all the time. I have a folder on the right side that I created in my Documents folder. I put aliases of all my other applications that I use in there. So most of the time, I'm using the apps in the Dock. Sometimes, I need an application that I rarely use and it's right there in the Dock in that folder, like the Start Menu. Just right-click on the folder and a list pops up and I select that application. Of course, you can always just drag your Applications folder to the Dock, if you want to. You can even just drag your whole HD to the Dock and navigate it like the Start Menu. You can create multiple Start Menus, if you want.

[js33]

Thanks for the info. Actually I do have the HD icon in the dock and if you hold the mouse down i works like a Start menu. It will just take a little getting used to. I also think having stuff all over your desktop is cluttered. I installed Object Dock on the PC to give it a Mac like doc. :D The Mac is so easy to use that sometimes I feel like I haven't installed everything or done everything I'm supposed to. It's just a little different workflow than I'm used to.

I'm about to yank out a 256 mb dimm from my old PC and see if it will work in the iMac as I need more mem for DVDSP as you pointed out before.

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

You can also hold down the CNTRL key to do right-clicks, as in right-clicking on the folder in the Dock instead of clicking and holding for a second.

Of course, you can yank your PC's 3-button USB mouse and put that on your Mac too. :) Or spend $9 on one. OS X already has native support for those mice, including the scroll-wheel.

Logitech and Kensington both have advanced mice to with OS X software to customize them. I have a 5-button mouse, with the back two buttons being back/forward in my browser, etc. I recommend those for both Mac and PC.

Good luck on the RAM.

[js33]

I already have a 5 button mouse on the Mac. That was one of the first things I did was replace the one button mouse. :) I just couldn't stand only having one mouse button.

The Apple supplied DIMM is a normal 168pin module but the upgrade slot is a SODIMM which is 144 pin and is taller than a regular DIMM but not as wide. I ordered a Kingston 512 mb SODIMM module. My older PC had only 256 mb DIMMs but they are 168 pin normal DIMMs.

Cheers,
JS

[Verlon]

OK I am on the inside of chip manufacture, and I can say with certainty that anyone's predictions for how fast a chip is going to be next year is speculation (educated speculation, but still speculation).

I wouldn't give a prediction for 2010 the time of day, even if IBM said it. Its likely to be as accurate as a world series prediction. Seriously.

Look at the number of dropped balls by each of the big 3 (Intel, IBM, AMD...you can even add Motorolla) and ask yourself why you would bother quoting their predictions.

[Red_Oddity]

Wow...i'm gone on vacation for a week and come back to THIS....

T'was a good laugh i must say....

[tallscot]

OK I am on the inside of chip manufacture, and I can say with certainty that anyone's predictions for how fast a chip is going to be next year is speculation (educated speculation, but still speculation).

Anything can happen, obviously, but IBM's 980 is in beta and already at Apple being prototyped in G5s. Steve Jobs stated that it will be out, at 3 Ghz, in June of 2004. Jobs has never ever made a statement like that before. So it's a bit more than speculation in regards to the IBM 980. What speed they will be at 10 years from now obviously is. However, my point was that IBM is not Motorola. IBM has a road map and has a FAB that can pump out chips. Motorola was incredibly slow ramping up their PowerPC G4, which is why the Mac was at 1 Ghz when the PCs were over 2 Ghz.

[Verlon]

"Steve Jobs stated that it will be out, at 3 Ghz, in June of 2004. Jobs has never ever made a statement like that before. So it's a bit more than speculation in regards to the IBM 980."

"However, my point was that IBM is not Motorola. IBM has a road map and has a FAB that can pump out chips. "

Okay, having a fab does not protect you from things going wrong. I have ramped 486, K5, K6, K6-2, K6-3, and several versions of Athlons and Durons. Trust me when I tell you things can go wrong. Things find brand new ways to go wrong that no one has ever seen before. It IS speculation. The only chip from any maker that is coming out for sure is the one you can hold in your hand at the store.

If they were 100% certain that the chip was coming out as they said, it would be out today. I am sure they BELIEVE that such a chip is coming at or around that time, but it is, as I said, educated speculation.

Process improvements may not give speed increases as projected, or may increase power consumption beyond acceptable limits. Defect issues may drive yields down below economic viability. They could get a bad reticle or reticle set. They may find a design flaw in the new chip.

Again, Intel and AMD have both been forced to release chips later than planned. Intel's last chip that came out according to its original roadmap was a 486. Itanium was YEARS late. Intel is, whatever else you might say about them, the biggest player in CPU manufacture. They have several fabs for this. They spend BILLIONS of dollars every year working on improving their products. They still have problems.

How can Steven Jobs, who doesn't even work in the fab, promise said Fab can deliver a chip they haven't already proved they can mass produce? He can't. No one can.

[tallscot]

Great information.

The IBM PowerPC 970 shipped before it's projected ship date.

Obviously anything can happen. My point is this is not Mac users speculating with no substance. This is not a rumor. This is a processor that Apple already has and is beta testing.

IBM does really well, which is why Microsoft picked an IBM processor for the next X Box (rumored to be a version of the 970).

[robewil]

IBM does really well It's really funny and ironic how Mac users are now singing praises of IBM corporation. Wasn't IBM the stodgy 1984 big brother evil empire?

[KillMe]

ok i cant be bothered ot read all this but geta grip people its two operating systems - i'ma pc use personally and iliek win xp - never deleted anything i didn't want deleted never corrupted anything - it works jsut fine

macs - personally i dont like osx - it jstu feels less organised etc i'm sure you can customise it to get rid of that annoying rolling bar thing at the bottom etc etc etc but my initial thoughts with it was that it wasn't for me so i'm a pc user

for every minor complaint you have for win xp or for osx its safe to asume someone else has a minor niggle for your chosen operating system

as for chips well this i got to comment on

the dual 2ghx g5 which they said was teh fastest home computer you could get well damn talk about rigging the tests

two i heard that the dual 2ghz got its *** whipped by a single athlon 64 fx51 not a great avertisement for it being teh fastest computer of all time and while they might ahve plans for a 3ghz version i'm quite sure amd and intel are also working on faster versions of there own chips

so until mac acaully with true independant testing produces a machine faster than a pc shove a sock in your mouth for now they are slower than pc's

also get a sence of humour installed in your mac your sorely needing it - its a parody its supposed to be FUNNY

i laugh at mac getting torn apart and i laugh at pc's getting torn apart - pahhh

someone close this thread

[Verlon]

"The IBM PowerPC 970 shipped before it's projected ship date. "

Which ship date? I am sure it beat its latest roadmap. How many prior roadmaps did it fail to meet? Now it may be possible that the 970 was the golden child of modern CPUs, and everything went to plan, but I assure you this is the exception and not the rule. If putting the letters IBM on the door made process integration issues go away, we would all be doing it and making 'workstation on a wristwatch' computers.

If there is a functional process for a production worthy 3Ghz 970 such that they can already have it in beta testing, why is it taking them 9 months to ramp it? Apple needs a CRUSHING win to gain serious market share, not something that is debateable or close. A few hundred Mhz would really help them right before Christmas. These days it takes in the neighborhood of 3 months to get a processor from first silicon to retail shelf, with maybe a couple of extra weeks for Apple's more limited manufacturing partners. Why wait the extra 6 months? A sense of sportsmanship?

Processors do not 'beta test' like software. They are too complicated and expensive to make. You do not make them one at a time. You have something REALLY close to a working product the first time you bother ordering the reticles. Remember, you are tying up cylce time in a multi-billion dollar fab and spending millions more on development. If you need to change a couple of features, its a little more complicated than adding a few lines of code and re-compiling.

With AMD vs Intel, you can keep your old software. If you want to win converts to Apple, you need something big enough to warrant a more sizable investment. I personally spent too much time asking 'when is the Amiga version coming out?' to bother playing the same game for Apple.

[tallscot]

Wasn't IBM the stodgy 1984 big brother evil empire?

Yes. Now it's Microsoft.

personally i dont like osx - it jstu feels less organised etc i'm sure you can customise it to get rid of that annoying rolling bar thing at the bottom etc etc etc but my initial thoughts with it was that it wasn't for me so i'm a pc user

Actually, it's better organized than XP.

The magnification of the Dock can be turned off easily.

So you played with it at Best Buy and you think you have an educated opinion on OS X versus XP? If you are happy with XP, that's great. Why would you change platforms if you are happy with the one you are on? But I own both platforms, and I can tell you the differences between the two, in great detail. OS X is a much better experience. There are less hassles or issues to deal with. The GUI is a lot more intuitive and efficient, etc.

It's the same reason all my Windows using friends have all switched to iTunes for Windows. MP3 players have been on Windows for years. Apple comes out with iTunes for Windows and it blows away the competition. Now apply that to the OS.

two i heard that the dual 2ghz got its *** whipped by a single athlon 64 fx51

You are referring to PC World's bogus benchmarks?

How about PC Magazine's benchmark that shows the dual G5 beating the dual 3.06 Ghz Xeon in Acrobat, Avid Xpress DV, and Squeeze?

How about Ars Technica showing the G5 beats the dual Xeon in Photoshop's PSBench7?

How about the fact that everyone shows After Effects being a lot faster on the dual G5?

How about Pixar being faster on the G5?

How about Luxology showing their application being twice as fast on the G5?

The dual G5 owner on the Mac forum did the skull scene in 88 seconds in Lightwave 7.5c.

If there is a functional process for a production worthy 3Ghz 970 such that they can already have it in beta testing

It's not the 970, it's the 980.

[Verlon]

ok where is the production worthy 980?

The rest of the argument still applies. In fact, since a new model number indicates at LEAST a new reticle set....its more important.

If they can make a new chip that is undeniably better NOW, why aren't they making it?

[KillMe]

no i didn't jstu have a quick play with macs i had to use one for 2 years at college

i admit i didn't get that deep into it because i found it off putting

as for you saying its better that is your opinion not mine - which is better depends on the person using it

for example i cant think of anything quite so convient as having all the programs you running on the task bar makes it nice and easy to switch programs couldn't do better in my opinion

got sortcuts to all my most common programs nicely laid out on my desktop again perfect couldn't be mroe convientnet unless the puter can read my thoughts adn with the little button on the task bar i can always jump back to the desktop from anywhere

and for the rest i have hidden away but quickly avaible from teh start button

on the mac everything jstu took that little bit longer - it felt clumbsy and less organised

i admit being able to drag and drop onto the recyle bin and n automatic uninstall would be nice addition in windows but thats about the only thing i can think off

as for the maginifcation on that doohickey well its not jstu that which is the prob its teh fact its there - i simply dont like it i would want rid of it not sure if thatas possible as i said i never went that deep into it i jsut used it for storing files and photoshop and afew other programs

now itunes might be good i dont know - i dont faff around with mp3 etc for mucis i have a nice denon stero system with far higher sound quality than i'm ever going to get out of my pc even if i linked up my steros speakers to my computer

as for teh hassles you claim in xp - i dont seems to have encountered any of them perhaps i'm super lucky having used xp pretty much since it was released and avoided them but alas for all my graphics work / games / internet needs it works flawlessly and without any irritation

as for the claims of the fx51 being faster well i cant speak for the validity of them but people dont tend to say wow this is the fastest chip ever reviewed for no reason unless they are advertising there own product which they weren't

and there was a review of the g5 in 3d world magizine for which it scored and impressive 9/10 but in lightwave versus a dual 2.8ghz xeon and the xeon was faster for all but radiosity and reflection for which the g5 scored teh same as the xeon so its obviously not that great as thats independant of any writing up special instructiosn for benchmark test thats in applicated tests

and to top it off the opterons are faster than the xeons so...........

so face it no matter how hard you wish it otherwise the mac is not the fastest machine ever - god did not personally inspire its design

and if you want to talk about bogus benchmarks then apple is surely the single biggest offender known to mankind - i acaully noted that recently in one of there adds they had dropped the fasted personal computer claim and it was now jsut one of the fastest which i found quite amusing

anyway i shall not argue more with you

as i said for every complaint you have against windows there is a counter claim against osx - no operating system is perfect sadly at least no operating system is perfect for everyone at any rate

[tallscot]

no i didn't jstu have a quick play with macs i had to use one for 2 years at college

And I'm guessing it wasn't with OS X, since you didn't know about turning off the Dock magnification, which I agree is very annoying.

for example i cant think of anything quite so convient as having all the programs you running on the task bar makes it nice and easy to switch programs couldn't do better in my opinion

The Dock is better because it uses a single icon to launch the application, to switch between applications, and to access functionality in that application (like iTunes play/pause/next, etc.)

The task bar uses a single, tiny launcher icon to launch the application, a bulky task button to switch between applications, and a system tray icon for functionality.

The task buttons are in chronological order, which means the button I click on to switch to Photoshop is in a different place every work session I have. So I end up fishing for the Photoshop task button. On the OS X Dock, the Photoshop icon is always in the same exact spot. I can quickly move my mouse to it to switch.

The task buttons are always truncated, "Adobe...", "Adobe...", "Adobe...". XP now adds an icon to these buttons so I can at least identify the application, but it still defeats the purpose of the task bar, which is to let me easily switch among tasks. When I use IE in XP, I sometimes have the same Web site open, but different pages open, so my task buttons are, "http://www.Apple.com...", "http://www.Apple.com...".

A big problem with Windows is consistency. Many things are inconsistent in Windows, which means you can't apply what you already know to a different task. For example, the open/save dialogs are different in XP, depending on which application you use, along with the print dialogs. Some applications don't give you a task button for each document, some do. Photoshop doesn't. I only get a task button for the Photoshop application, but not Photoshop documents. To switch to a Photoshop document, I have to use the Windows menu in Photoshop. Panther's Exposé feature is incredibly useful when switching between documents. In Photoshop, I just press F10 and all my open Photoshop documents shrink down to fit all in my monitor, creating very large thumbnails. I click on the one I want and it zoom up. Wonderful feature. You can also select documents by right-clicking on the Dock icon, which spawns a pop-up menu with a list of your open documents.

There are many annoying aspects about the Windows task bar.

got sortcuts to all my most common programs nicely laid out on my desktop again perfect couldn't be mroe convientnet unless the puter can read my thoughts adn with the little button on the task bar i can always jump back to the desktop from anywhere

I want to make sure you realize that I'm not telling you what makes you happy is wrong. I'm just explaining to you why I have the opinion I do, which is different than yours.

Placing your shortcuts on the desktop is flawed because a) it's not organized so you end up fishing for the icon you want, b) it's always covered up so you can't access it unless you get stuff out of the way. In any case, OS X allows you to put aliases (shortcuts) on the desktop as well.

The way you are working in XP is you have to hide everything so you can see your desktop, then you have to find the icon of the application you want, then you double-click on it, then you use the task bar buttons, which are always in a different location, to switch between applications. This is very inefficient compared to OS X. I have a single icon for Photoshop on my Dock. I click once on it to load, and it's always visible to me. I click on it to switch to it if I'm in a difference application. It's always in the same spot, so I achieve muscle memory.

and for the rest i have hidden away but quickly avaible from teh start button

So you are going to three different places to do what I'm doing with a single icon on my Dock. You can recreate the Start Menu, but in a more flexible way, with the Dock by dragging any folder, even your HD, to the Dock. These act like the Start Menu with a menu popping up above the Dock that allows you to navigate it like the Start Menu. It's completely customizable.

admit being able to drag and drop onto the recyle bin and n automatic uninstall would be nice addition in windows but thats about the only thing i can think off

I can think of a million things. Windows has all of its functions and features buried several levels deep. On the Mac, it's straight-forward. How do I change my TCP/IP settings in XP? It's several clicks to get there. On the Mac, it's right there in the Network control panel, on the first screen. Even print functions that are on the front dialog in OS X require me to go one or two levels deep in the XP print dialog.

OS X has no DLLs, and no hard links to documents from applications. You can move your applications around all you want. You can trash them and not worry about shared DLLs. You can have a document open in OS X, and move the application around, etc. It's a more modern OS, and requires a lot less hand holding.

now itunes might be good i dont know - i dont faff around with mp3 etc for mucis i have a nice denon stero system with far higher sound quality than i'm ever going to get out of my pc even if i linked up my steros speakers to my computer

I use to think the same thing. You should try it out. Try iTunes. Rip some of your CDs, connect your PC to your stereo, and enjoy having your entire CD collection available to you in an wonderful way. I rip custom CDs now for my car stereo, which plays MP3s. I have 12 albums on a single CD in my car stereo, as opposed to a CD changer that requires me to put in 8 discs, which is 4 albums less than what I have on a single disc.

as for teh hassles you claim in xp - i dont seems to have encountered any of them perhaps i'm super lucky having used xp pretty much since it was released and avoided them but alas for all my graphics work / games / internet needs it works flawlessly and without any irritation

This Lightwave PC forum has several posts about problems, with a very long one about a virus "Lightwave crashes XP". A DLL was getting corrupted by a virus. OS X has ZERO viruses. No adware, no spyware, no problems like that at all. No registry either.

OS X isn't perfect, you are right. There are even some bugs with Lightwave in Panther. However, these problems in OS X are common among all operating systems, but OS X doesn't have a Registry, shared DLLs, spyware, adware, viruses. Those problems don't exist on the Mac.

and there was a review of the g5 in 3d world magizine for which it scored and impressive 9/10 but in lightwave versus a dual 2.8ghz xeon and the xeon was faster for all but radiosity and reflection for which the g5 scored teh same as the xeon so its obviously not that great as thats independant of any writing up special instructiosn for benchmark test thats in applicated tests

That's reflects an application that hasn't been optimized one bit for the G5. Cinema was optimized recently and saw a speed increase of 31%, and they aren't finished yet.

and to top it off the opterons are faster than the xeons so

In some things, it is. Tome's Hardware has a comparison of the dual Opteron with dual 3.06 Xeon and the Xeon beat the Opteron in every real world application, like 3DS Max. The 3.2 Ghz Xeon is out now.

so face it no matter how hard you wish it otherwise the mac is not the fastest machine ever - god did not personally inspire its design

It depends on what software you are using.

and if you want to talk about bogus benchmarks then apple is surely the single biggest offender known to mankind

I wasn't referring to Apple's claims, I was referring to PC Magazine's benchmarks, and the press releases from the developers themselves, like Luxology, Pixar, Mathematica, BLAST, etc.

[js33]

Hi all I'm back. :D

Well Lightwave Layout is completely unuseable under Pather right now due to a nasty bug in the graph editor that causes a crash whenever you click on a keyframe. Hopefully it will be fixed when 8 comes out but no word on a fix for 7.5 for those that may not be upgrading on the Mac.

I've never had an update of Windows totally disable Lightwave or even have any real problems.

I have DVDSP for the Mac now and it is definately the best DVD authoring app right now. Barring the really expensive ones.

I tried Encore on the PC and it works but it's not fun to use and is a little buggy.

So I still say use whatever works best. For Lightwave it always has been and still is the PC for DVD authoring it is the Mac.

For video it's a toss up. Some swear by FCP 4 others swear by AVID, Speed Razor, Video Toaster, etc...

For After Effects it works well on the PC never tried it on the Mac.

Cheers,
JS

[KillMe]

damn it i swore i wouldn't get dragged into an argument here but arghhhhh

ok first off at least you seemed to drop the attitude in this post

now that dock i dont know i jsut hate it - its to big and ugly thats it - tahs the prob its ugly

now as for the task bar thigns popping up in the order you start them well it really doesn't bother me at all its perfect obvious where they are and as i said with the desktop button you canget back to the desktop no prob is i want to start anotehr app

i just prefer it as do alot of people not all though as you prove some liek the mac and i have no prob with them jstu dont put down windows xp from a personal preference poitns alone ok i see all this dll crap might be nice but its something that really doesn't bother me the only thing i occionally install is a new game and they always uninstall quite happily

no i like it better than osx (which i admit i didn't use for the full 2 years only for about 6 months or so) but i used it enough to know that xp for me is better

now you mentioned the save file dialog etc hmmmmm hmm hmmmmmmmm - if its not exactly the same is so close as i cant even think of a differnce exept perhaps the size and shape etc

and the file saving procedure on macs well argh nope that was not fun - file and foler navigation is alot easier in windows no question

now as or the opteron not out performing the xeon well maybe the lowest end one but the top of the line is damn speedy( but also got a nasty price worthy of mac's) and again there has been zero optimsation for the opteron where as the xeon as you pointed out has had optomisation

no its all a matter of personal preference - the systems are pretty close now in performance i guess so using a mac isn't as bad as it used to be and oxs may have its advantages but but but nope idont like it

[tallscot]

I agree, use what you like.

I've never had an update of Windows totally disable Lightwave or even have any real problems.

Really? You've never had a Windows service pak release cause problems in Lightwave, or other software?

Well, here are 30 threads with problems with crashes and issues with Windows and LW:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=72693&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=ascending

LW's problems with Panther is a poor reflection on Lightwave, not Panther.

AE is much faster on the dual G5 than the Xeons. I haven't seen the benchmark on Opteron yet. Night Flight AE scene, render first 10 frames.

[tallscot]

now that dock i dont know i jsut hate it - its to big and ugly thats it - tahs the prob its ugl

It's scalable, unlike the task bar task buttons and icons. Too big? Make it tiny. You can make it as small as a task bar launcher icon, if you want. Too ugly? That's subjective, but I've never had anyone say it was ugly. The opposite. The task bar is pretty?

now as for the task bar thigns popping up in the order you start them well it really doesn't bother me at all its perfect obvious where they are

No, it's not obvious at all. It's different every time. I have a dozen or so open right now, and I have to fish for the one I want. It's inferior to the Dock in this regard.

jstu dont put down windows xp from a personal preference poitns alone

It's just a product, don't take it personally when I say it's crap. I own it, and I think it's crap compared to OS X. That's harsh, but I also think my old Panasonic cordless phone was crap too. If you have one of those, you don't get offended, do you?

This is the thing - I can explain in great detail why I think it's crap. It's not like I never use it. I use it every day. I have to, they hold a monopoly.

this dll crap might be nice but its something that really doesn't bother me the only thing i occionally install is a new game and they always uninstall quite happily

Uninstall, and you get something like this:
http://www.xvsxp.com/images/dllremove.gif

Ugh! You never ever have to deal with shared DLLs in OS X. Applications have all of their required files located within the application icon itself, called a bundle. To the OS, this is a folder. To the user, it's the icon that you click on to launch the program. If you move it to another hard drive, it moves everything that application needs to run. It's modern, and makes XP look like a 1970s operating system.

now you mentioned the save file dialog etc hmmmmm hmm hmmmmmmmm - if its not exactly the same is so close as i cant even think of a differnce exept perhaps the size and shape etc

Go into IE and select Open and you get a small, lame dialog. Go into Flash MX and select Open and you get the big dialog. Go to Photoshop's Open dialog and it has a Favorites button on the top right. Go into Word and select Open and you get a completely different open/save dialog! It has a Tools menu, and the left pane's shortcuts are completely different! Argh! The View button is different, with different options.

OS X's open/save is superior, and consistent. First off, you get icon previews in List View and Column view. In XP, I have to switch to Thumbnail view just to get a preview of the file! So in XP, you are clicking back and forth between views. XP doesn't remember the view I had last time, it always brings up the stupid List view, which goes down vertically, then starts another column to the right that goes down vertically, then starts another column to the right. It's awful. I switch it to Details, which actually has useful information, but then the next time I load the application, it's back in List view.

OS X's open/save has a left pane that is incredibly customizable. It lists the mounted drives on the top, and then has aliases under that, and I can have as many as I want, and I don't have to use TweakUI to hack it to customize it, like I do in XP. Each application remembers the size and position of the open/save, independently.

OS X's dialog has a pop-up with a list of the recent places, always. XP does, sometimes, but with a lame implementation. It requires you click on History, and then it changes the open/save dialog and puts a bunch of shortcuts of files you've recently opened in there. OS X always has the recent files listed in the pop-up menu, which doesn't change where you are in the open/save.

I hate how XP's open/save doesn't show me all the files in a folder. OS X shows all the files, and greys out the ones that don't apply.

Don't get me started! :)

and the file saving procedure on macs well argh nope that was not fun - file and foler navigation is alot easier in windows no question

Please explain.

now as or the opteron not out performing the xeon well maybe the lowest end one but the top of the line is damn speedy( but also got a nasty price worthy of mac's) and again there has been zero optimsation for the opteron where as the xeon as you pointed out has had optomisation

Both the dual Xeon and dual Opteron cost a lot more than the dual G5.

[Verlon]

I had ZERO trouble finding references to OSX viruses on the web. I even found someone griping that OSX came with NO virus protection whatsoever. MAybe thats what you meant, because claiming any OS has ZERO viruses is patently absurd. Somewhere someone will write a virus for any OS in use. The only way OSX could have ZERO viruses would be if no one used it.

Yes, Windows has more. Why? Because more man hours are put into making Windows software because more people USE Windows software. Unfortuantely, this means more man hours are spent writing ads, pop-ups, and viruses. No one would write a banner ad for a mac because the target audience is too small anyway :P (just teasing, but it makes a valid point). Compare available titles for both platforms. Go to Fry's. Go to CompUSA. Go to Wal-Mart. Which software is easier to find?

He said he never had an OS update completely disable Lightwave, not that there were never issues. A software update has never flat out made me unable to run the program.

If panther came after the LW update, how is it a poor reflection on LW. Is Newtek now responsible for writing code that will be compliant with all future releases of an OS that only holds 3% market share?

And in point of fact, I have NEVER had a Windows service pack cause any piece of my software to not work. I have NEVER had a corrupt .dll issue, and I haven't had a virus since Windows 95.

You like the dock better, I can function quite happily with the taskbar. Your dislike of the taskbar does not make the dock better, except for you.

I keep a handful of useful icons on my desktop, and have no trouble getting to them. Besides, I like the way the LW icons look :)

Microsoft software IS consistent. Its when you use other peoples software that you end up with different commands to do different things. If OSX had more people writing their software, you would see the same thing becuase SOMEWHERE someone would want to make their Mac run just like their PC, Amiga, ST, TRS-80, or ENIAC, and they would make it do just that. That interface would NOT be consistent with the rest of your software.

I dunno, but if you find the extra couple of clicks to get to your TCP/IP properties so exhausting, maybe you shouldn't type so much in this thread. On the PC, it isn't really and issue because you normally don't have to change those settings on a daily basis. I set them once, and leave them alone. It works rather nicely.

Tom's hardware is Intel biased, and that has been gone over enough that I shouldn't have to point out how.

[tallscot]

I had ZERO trouble finding references to OSX viruses on the web.

Show me.

Yes, Windows has more. Why? Because more man hours are put into making Windows software because more people USE Windows software.

No, Windows has more viruses because Microsoft designed it with so many vulnerabilities, like automated plug-in installation in their browser.

Unfortuantely, this means more man hours are spent writing ads, pop-ups, and viruses. No one would write a banner ad for a mac because the target audience is too small anyway

And there is no way for an ad to be implemented in OS X, like there is with XP's messenger.

You are ignoring the differences in design of the two operating systems.

Compare available titles for both platforms. Go to Fry's. Go to CompUSA. Go to Wal-Mart. Which software is easier to find?

I buy my software for both my PCs and my Macs at the same place - online. Most of the applications I use on the Mac is available for Windows too, however there are some Mac-only applications that I find are superior to the other options - DVD SP 2, FCP 4, iTunes...oh wait, that's out for Windows now. :)

There is more software for the Mac than I could ever possibly use - period. The selection is more than adequate for me.

If panther came after the LW update, how is it a poor reflection on LW. Is Newtek now responsible for writing code that will be compliant with all future releases of an OS that only holds 3% market share?

It's a poor reflection on Newtek because, like every other Apple developer, they had Panther months before it was released. Most other developers had updates on the day Panther was released, because they already identified incompatibilities.

And the total world market share of the Mac does not equate to the market share of a specific application. Alias states that the Mac version of Maya Complete represents 25% of their Maya Complete sales. Adobe Photoshop is about 50/50. You get the idea.

The point is both platforms has issues. OS X doesn't have any DLL, Registry, adware, spyware, or virus issues.

And in point of fact, I have NEVER had a Windows service pack cause any piece of my software to not work. I have NEVER had a corrupt .dll issue, and I haven't had a virus since Windows 95.

Panther isn't a service pack, it's a new version of the OS. There were many issues with XP (NT 5.1), and many of the applications I used didn't even support it when it came out.

And your anecdotal stories about Windows is great, and I could tell you I've never had any issue with any Mac at all. But if we just look at this very PC LW forum, we see a long thread about XP crashing with Lightwave because of a virus.

Do a search in this forum, and in ZDNet's Windows XP forum for "dll corrupt" or "dll missing" or "registry corrupt" and you will get pages and pages of posts of problems people are having, problems that don't exist on OS X. In fact, if you go to Microsoft's own knowledge base on XP and do a search for those key words, you will get many many references to these problems.

So it is a fact that these are issues that trouble many, many Windows users, and these issues don't exist on the Mac.

Besides, I like the way the LW icons look

They look much better in OS X. :)

Microsoft software IS consistent. Its when you use other peoples software that you end up with different commands to do different things. If OSX had more people writing their software, you would see the same thing becuase SOMEWHERE someone would want to make their Mac run just like their PC, Amiga, ST, TRS-80, or ENIAC, and they would make it do just that. That interface would NOT be consistent with the rest of your software.

You obviously aren't paying attention. Microsoft makes IE, and Office. Both have different open/save dialogs. Both have different print dialogs. I use Apple's Safari, Mail, and Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Macromedia Flash, Director...and they all have consistent open/save dialogs and consistent print dialogs.

I dunno, but if you find the extra couple of clicks to get to your TCP/IP properties so exhausting, maybe you shouldn't type so much in this thread. On the PC, it isn't really and issue because you normally don't have to change those settings on a daily basis. I set them once, and leave them alone. It works rather nicely.

You are only making excuses for a flawed UI design.

Tom's hardware is Intel biased, and that has been gone over enough that I shouldn't have to point out how.

And PC World is PC biased, so I'll just dismiss their comparison of the G5, OK?

[KillMe]

byt the fial saving crap i ment exactly ytht when you savinga file its just harder to get to the palce you want to save it on a mac

as for the shared dll thing well i jsut tell it to delete them so far nothign has there after refused to work

as for scaling your dock the prob would be if you make it to small you wouldn't be able to use it

as for the task bar no its notparticularily beautiful but it is unabtrusive - you dont even notice it until you go looking for it and if you really dont liek you can get it to auto hide for you

and if you really find it so hard to spot which app your looking for on the task bar might i suggest you might be needing glasses =)

now as for preview icons well all fine and well for somethign butif you have a folder with say 2000 files in it and its got to laod a preview for each tis gonna slow things down i have certain folders where i have previews and itremembers quite happily which folders i want previews off so i dnt see a prob there at all

now the inconsistancy you speak of with the file requestors etc damn they all work exactly the same no matter if they small or big etc etc etc they all work exactly the same way

and if you want an inconsistancy on your mac you can probally do it with lightwave tell ti to use the lightwave file browsers and bang you first inconsistnacy

nope while if someone offered me a G5 i would definatly say yes i would even use it but if offered a pc i would rather have it than the mac

now price wise it says here ( in 3d world mag ) a dual 2ghz G5 would set me back £2999

now lets see how mucha nice new opteron machine would set me back

boxx tech

dual amd opteron 246
1gb ddr ram
nvidia quadro4 750 xgl 128mb

£2607 aprox based on a 1.5 dollar to a pound

so seems i can do better with amd than i can with apple

that said it doesn't tell me how muh ram is coming with the mac or what graphics card

[tallscot]

byt the fial saving crap i ment exactly ytht when you savinga file its just harder to get to the palce you want to save it on a mac

How is it harder? All your favorite places are right there on the left pane, and there is a pop-up with the recent places you have visited. It's a lot easier.

as for the shared dll thing well i jsut tell it to delete them so far nothign has there after refused to work

So why have the dialog? Obviously it's there for a reason. I've had several DLL issues over the years, and there are many posts on this forum and ZDNet's XP tech support forum about DLLs, and on Micosoft's Web site.

as for scaling your dock the prob would be if you make it to small you wouldn't be able to use it

Sigh. Scale it to the size of the task bar. If that's too small, the task bar is too small. If that is too big, that task bar is too big.

as for the task bar no its notparticularily beautiful but it is unabtrusive - you dont even notice it until you go looking for it and if you really dont liek you can get it to auto hide for you

How is that different from the Dock? You can hide the Dock too! You haven't used OS X much at all. You had no clue about turning off magnification, and you don't know you can hide it. Hmmm.

and if you really find it so hard to spot which app your looking for on the task bar might i suggest you might be needing glasses

I see perfectly, the problem is I'm sifting through a dozen or so task buttons that have tiny icons and text that reads, "Adobe...", "Adobe...", "Macromedia..." In OS X, Photoshop's icon is in the same spot always. It doesn't move around like in the task bar.

now as for preview icons well all fine and well for somethign butif you have a folder with say 2000 files in it and its got to laod a preview for each tis gonna slow things down i have certain folders where i have previews and itremembers quite happily which folders i want previews off so i dnt see a prob there at all

Slows down XP, but not OS X. Icon previews are instantaneous, and XP doesn't have this feature. XP's open/save does not remember your view. The Explorer does, but the open/save does not.

now the inconsistancy you speak of with the file requestors etc damn they all work exactly the same no matter if they small or big etc etc etc they all work exactly the same way

No, they don't. Look at Windows open/save and then look at IE's and tell me they work the same. They don't.

and if you want an inconsistancy on your mac you can probally do it with lightwave tell ti to use the lightwave file browsers and bang you first inconsistnacy

My Lightwave gives me the OS X open/save.

boxx tech

dual amd opteron 246
1gb ddr ram
nvidia quadro4 750 xgl 128mb

£2607 aprox based on a 1.5 dollar to a pound

URL, please.

[tallscot]

From Symantec:

"To date, there is only one known mass-mailing worm that can infect the Macintosh. This worm, known as Mac.Simpsons@mm, is an AppleScript worm that can infect a Macintosh running Mac OS 8 - 9 and cannot infect Mac OS X. Norton AntiVirus for Macintosh versions 5 through 9, with virus definitions dated July 2001 or later, can detect this worm." September 3, 2003 02:35 PM


There are ZERO known OS X viruses.

[KillMe]

the dock unless i'm remember very wrong is not the correct shape to make a task bar out off - alas i dont knwo much about oxs i agree as i said i used it to start some programs and then hid in them till it was time to run home to my pc and do all my college work again but in windows

anyway those task bar icons are pretty easy let see the one with the lw modelr icon hm taht would be modeler then one with the layout icon that would be layout and this would be digital fusion and its grouped my all myie brosers to keep it all neat - nope i have no problem navigating ti at all photoshop liek the others rather obvious which one it is too so frankly if its moves or not i care little and its not thercluttering thigns up when tis not running

it remembers teh save file previews or it jstu picks them at random as some of mine have previews others dont cant acaully recall setting them one way or another to be honest but you coudl eb right about the open fiel i have no idea its not somethign i ever thought about really

dll well how ever i look at it its never caused me a prob

now boxx tech

http://www.boxxtech.com/asp/cf_step2.asp?cmdUpdateTotal2=UpdateTotal&ModelInstanceID=280&cfg3038B=3540C&cfg3061B=3316C&cfg3062B=2446C&cfg3039B=2161C&cfg3067B=1668C&cfg3068B=2446C&cfg3069B=2446C&cfg3070B=2446C&cfg3044B=948C&cfg3045B=2446C&cfg3048B=2446C&cfg3064B=2446C&cfg3058B=2446C&cfg3055B=2446C&cfg3056B=2446C&cfg3057B=2446C&cfg3053B=1938C&cfg3046B=2399C&cfg3047B=1594C&cfg3051B=2446C&cfg3052B=2446C&acc3060BZ2211C=0&acc3060BZ3091C=0

argh nasty link but there you go

[KillMe]

Originally posted by tallscot
There are ZERO known OS X viruses.

Yet!!!!

[tallscot]

the dock unless i'm remember very wrong is not the correct shape to make a task bar out off

Not the same shape? It's a rectangle, just like the task bar. The Dock doesn't have bulky task buttons, though. It has icons that scale, because of Quartz, which Windows doesn't have (Longhorn will copy that feature).

anyway those task bar icons are pretty easy let see the one with the lw modelr icon hm taht would be modeler then one with the layout icon that would be layout and this would be digital fusion and its grouped my all myie brosers to keep it all neat

If the icons in the task bar are large enough for you to decipher, so are the ones in the Dock. That is my point. You were criticizing the Dock for being too big, and I said scale it smaller. Then you said if you scale it smaller, you can't see it. My point is you can make the icons in the Dock the same size as the icons you like in the task bar. So there is no valid criticism of the Dock in this regard.

BOXX Dual Opteron
Dual Opteron 246 processors
1 gig 333 Mhz DDR RAM
Quadro FX 500 128 meg video card
120 gig Serial ATA 7200 RPM HD
DVDR/RW optical drive
Intel Pro/1000 NIC
5 32 bit 33 Mhz PCI slots
1 8X AGP slot
2 FireWire 400 ports
4 USB 2.0 ports
2 USB 1.1 ports

$4,182 U.S.

Apple G5
Dual 2 Ghz IBM 970 processors
1 GB 400 Mhz DDR RAM (faster RAM)
ATI Radeon 9800 128 meg video card (show me the Quadro FX is faster)
160 GB Serial ATA 7200 RPM HD (larger HD)
DVDR/RW optical drive
10/100/1000 ethernet
56K modem
1 133 Mhz 64 bit PCI-X slot (faster)
2 100 Mhz 64 bit PCI-X slots (faster)
1 8X AGP slot
1 FireWire 800 port (faster)
2 FireWire 400 ports
3 USB 2.0 ports
2 USB 1.1 ports
Optical audio in/out (superior to analog on BOXX)

$3,549

The G5 is about $600 less expensive than the dual Opteron. The dual Opteron still needs a FireWire 800 PCI card, an optical audio PCI card, and has slower PCI slots, has slower RAM, and has an OS that can't recognize more than 4 gigs or RAM (Windows XP). The BOXX can have 8 gigs or RAM, like the G5, but the OS only recognizes 4 gigs, until Windows 64 bit for AMD comes out, which is rumored to be like Windows 64 for Itanium and will be a stripped down Windows XP.

Yet!!!

Well, it's been out for over three years. In any case, it's irrelevant why Windows has viruses and OS X doesn't. The fact of the matter is a person using a Windows workstation can have viruses create a lot of problems, like the guy in the "XP crashing" thread here at LW PC. OS X doesn't have any.

[KillMe]

ok the dock is a rectungle yes but its not a long thin one its a short fat one and its full of scrolling icons and its frustraiting your not going to convince me otehrwise so quit trying

if you can make it look like a task bar that would be a severe improvement but its by no means my only issue with mac's os

another thing that maybe you can solve with knowing macs abit better is the..... well well you open say photoshop and your tool bars pop up butyou can still see teh desktop benieht it - this as onther of thsoe annoying thigns i disliked about it prgrams should be solid seeing through them is a distration unless your desktop is a dull uniform grey colour

and i would have to say my one overriding complaint of macs is how offen they crash - its practically impossible to get any work done and if some program does crash argh

i remember once at college i was working on a large file in photoshop about 200mb file and i wen tot apply a filter - predicaiblly it crashed refused to do anything complete lock up in the end seeing no other option i pulled the plug from the wall

big mistake somehow this messed the whoel system up and it wouldn't start up again took the computer enineer at the college 2 days to get it working again

now as to the price macs are obviously cheaper over there then cause here they work out about $4400 (again aprox based on the 1.5 exchange rate) for the dual g5

and your still missing the point the opteron is faster even if the g5 has a faster pci slot for your what sound card and modem? wow thats important

now dont get me wrong the g5 is a huge leap for macs but its still got a clunky operating system that is horrible to use

if they made windows xp for the mac i might think about getting one depending on the deals availible compared to otehr similar powered workstations but i'm sorry the os really jsut puts me off macs

on the graphics card side there is vastly superior range of cards avilble for the pcs too and i got a better deal with a wildcat vp 880pro from my local reseller with 256mb ram on it seems to be a nice card better than the ati which by all reports have crap drivers and whihc lightwave dislikes

on this note anyone had experiance with the vp 880 on lightwave? as i am considering a new workstation and well want a nice new graphics card with it move up from gaming card to a pro one

but as i said the macs pretty quick these days - but until it can render twice as fast as my pc i'm not switching over to a system that has no software - no local stores to buy parts for in and a dodgy operating system

[KillMe]

as for no viruses - damn i am tempted to go finda mac and write one just to annoy you

[tallscot]

ok the dock is a rectungle yes but its not a long thin one its a short fat one and its full of scrolling icons and its frustraiting your not going to convince me otehrwise so quit trying

I'm not trying to convince of you anything. I'm only correcting your misconceptions about it.

It's as long as it needs to be. If you have it full of icons, it's long and skinny. If you have only the trash can in it, it's very short.

The icons don't "scroll". They "magnify", which I already told you can easily be turned off. It's a built in setting, along with the animated bouncing icons, and the position of the Dock.

well well you open say photoshop and your tool bars pop up butyou can still see teh desktop benieht it - this as onther of thsoe annoying thigns i disliked about it prgrams should be solid seeing through them is a distration unless your desktop is a dull uniform grey colour

It's one of the great things about the Mac, actually. The Mac has extensive drag and drop features. When in Photoshop, I can see my Illustrator documents in the background. I can easily drag and drop between them.

Windows has a grey application window that doesn't allow you to see behind it. This window is where the documents reside. If you have two monitors on your PC, like I do on my Mac, you have to manually stretch that grey application window across both monitors, which is stupid.

On the Mac, I can see my iChat window, my sports scores, and the weather because I don't have this grey application windows covering everything up.

Talk about a distraction, Windows doesn't hide my Photoshop palettes when I switch to Illustrator, so I can see them and they get muddled up with the Illustrator palettes. It's damn annoying. OS X hides palettes, but not the documents.

Drag and drop on the Mac is superior to Windows. I have some email message in Mail with info I want to save out as a file. I just highlight that text and drag and drop it to the desktop, or my Finder, and a file gets created with that text in it automatically. I can drag and drop QuickTime movies from Web pages to my Finder, etc. It's great.

and i would have to say my one overriding complaint of macs is how offen they crash - its practically impossible to get any work done and if some program does crash argh

Older Mac operating systems crashed. OS X does not crash, or I should say it crashes as often as my Windows XP system, if not less often. Windows XP and OS X are both very stable operating systems. The only time I crash either of them is hardware related - a driver, USB device, etc. Keep your drivers current on both systems and neither of them crash.

and your still missing the point the opteron is faster even if the g5 has a faster pci slot for your what sound card and modem? wow thats important

No, I have Photoshop PSBench7 numbers, After Effects numbers, Squeeze numbers, Acrobat numbers, Avid numbers that say the G5 is faster than the dual Opteron. The dual Opteron is using a 32 bit OS right now too. The G5 is using a hybrid OS that recognizes 8 gigs of RAM today, 16 gigs of RAM when 2 gig sticks come out.

now dont get me wrong the g5 is a huge leap for macs but its still got a clunky operating system that is horrible to use

Considering your ignorance of OS X demonstrated on this forum, I'll take your opinion of it with a grain of salt, no offense. Honestly, I don't have an opinion on Linux because I haven't used it enough to have one. Why criticize something you obviously know very little about?

on the graphics card side there is vastly superior range of cards avilble for the pcs too and i got a better deal with a wildcat vp 880pro from my local reseller with 256mb ram on it seems to be a nice card better than the ati which by all reports have crap drivers and whihc lightwave dislikes

There are no current issues with the Radeon 9800 on a Mac. I did a poll in this very PC LW forum many months ago. I asked all the PC users what 3D card they use. Every single person who responded said they had either a GeForce gaming card or an ATI gaming card. None of them had a 3DLabs card. In any case, can you prove to me that a Quadro or Wildcat 3D card is faster in Lightwave than a Radeon 9800? Lightwave's OpenGL isn't the fastest on the PC or the Mac, so I'd love to see some OpenGL benchmarks with Lightwave that show these pro cards are faster. In the opinion of many PC LW users here, the gaming cards are the same speed. In any case, Apple is working with 3DLabs as we create these posts, and they will have a Wildcat card for the Mac available in the future. This was a rumor, but I confirmed it with a developer.

but until it can render twice as fast as my pc i'm not switching over to a system that has no software - no local stores to buy parts for in and a dodgy operating system

It has a huge amount of software. It uses the same parts as your PC in regards to RAM, HD, optical drives, monitors, external devices. OS X is superior to Windows XP, and I've given you many, many reasons why and you have yet to explain to me what XP does better.

But again, if you are happy with your PC, there's no reason to switch.

[KillMe]

ack you call my opinions about osx ignourance - - i dont liek being able to see through to the background - you might like it i hated it

as for the palletes thing well i dont have illustrator so i couldn't say but between all my otehr apps when i bring another one to the front it tends to not leave bits of other programs sitting int eh front

now as for the stability well win xp has never crashed on me

osx on dual 1ghz g4 argh it crahed maybe they fixed it since i used it was pretty new when i was using it

if you say the dock doesn't scroll i will believe you but i was sure i stayed the same size and scrolled when all the icons didn't fit in it

software wise your never going to convince me that mac software is as abundant or as prevailant as pc software

except software deveolpers mac ahs bought and subsequently stopped the pc version fo the software tehre was practically nothing you couldn't get for the pc the mac well certainly around here you struggle to find anything for the mac and i do mean anything

ok so some of the hardware it might eb teh same as the pc but not all and enough of it different to be a sever annoyance should you need ot replace something in a hurry

now if some professional cards start appearing for the mac it certainly would eb an improvement but i cincerly doubt they will ever have the range availble for pc

as to how much faster they are i cant say but they all certainly claim to be and also more acurate etc and with more memory

as for your many reasons why osx is better i have disagreed with all but one of them evrything i say i dont liek you tell me is wonderful and that i do liek it i jsut dont know it - well i dont and its for those reasons i prefer windows

now as for your benchmarks comparing the dual opteron 246 with the dual 2ghz mac i would like to see them

[Verlon]

I went to hotbot and did a serch for OSX virus and returned lots of hits. I checked a couple to verify they were pertinent. It wasn't hard. Only one known email worm is not the same thing as only one know virus. Go look for yourself, I wouldn't want to burst your bubble.

You are being ridiculous if you even begin to imply that mac software is nearly as available as PC software. It doesn't take much searching to find 'when will the mac version be availalbe'

[tallscot]

Verlon, you do a search, but you don't forward me any of the specifics. What viruses are on OS X? Which ones? Give me a link.

All of the software I ever need is readily available for the Mac. I can't buy Mac software in Wal Mart, but I don't buy my PC software there either. I'm saying it's not an issue.

Here are some great applications I have for my Mac that I wish were on Windows:

http://www.konfabulator.com/

http://www.karelia.com/watson/

Now, more humor:

http://www.mightyponygirl.com/greymatter/archives/misc/balmer.mov

http://www.macboy.com/switch/

http://www.macboy.com/cartoons/ballmer/index.html

[toby]

I have two things to add to this -

first I think it's to XP's credit that a pro-Mac user finds it about as stable as OSX, but I find it to be definitely less stable. A freshly installed WinXP Pro on a dual 2.8ghz Athlon system with freshly installed 3DSMax and Photoshop, with nothing else running, I have to restart something every single day, be it 3DSMax, Photoshop or the system. My boss with a dual Xeon3.06 is no different, and it seems normal to him. These systems are shut down every night. There's also MS patch problems, audio problems, poor multi-threading, poor re-draw/screen flickers.

By contrast, my home system, a G4 dual 450 with OSX 10.2.3 goes for weeks without programs crashing / months without system crashes, while running two simultaneous copies of LW, After Effects (render with one or two, work in the other), Safari, Mail, Quicktime Pro, iTunes and sometimes Modeler and Photoshop, all at a time when I was working on my demo reel : 12-14 hours a day every day, and I don't shut it down at night. I go about a month between restarts.

As far as Video cards, the dual Athlon I use has a Quadro, it must be 4 months old, third down from top-of-the-line, but it moves about 5 times as many polygons in real time than my GeForce2 at home, 200,000 compared to 40,000. (that's what I set my bounding box threshold to)
According to Julian Johnson's tests, a GeForce4 ti loses most of it's speed advantage at high poly-counts - over 80K or so it's only slightly faster than the GeForce2.

So yes, the pro video cards ROCK, with Lightwave too.

[toby]

sorry, 3 things -

"I went to hotbot and did a serch for OSX virus and returned lots of hits"

You can also enter "gay alien" and get lots of hits.

It doesn't really matter why you don't have to worry about viruses on the Mac, it's still a benefit of owning a Mac. btw OSX does have a built-in Firewall.

[KillMe]

well seems some have found osx and xp equally stable - otehrs found osx more stable and maybe i was unlucky but i found xp more stable

so perhaps its luck

as for which is better how about we declare them flavours of teh same thing

you like toffee fudge icecream ( oxs ) i like mint choc chip ( xp) and leave it at that

ceratinly this does get tiresome

i guess aslong as photoshop, lightwave and the internet work i wouldn't object to much to a mac though i would miss DFX+

( dont play as many games as i used too)

[toby]

I'll drink to that.

any more humor?

I have something, and it fits the occasion - or any occasion

http://www.tobygaines.com/whatever.mpg

(4.6mb)

[Red_Oddity]

Originally posted by toby

You can also enter "gay alien" and get lots of hits.


Damn....google search 'Gay Alien: 357.000 hits....

google search 'OS X virus' : 534.000 hits....I better stop using a Mac...that system is virus riddled....

better use my windows box...searching 'windows virus' ....yikes...3.600.000 hits...hmmm....

but the ultimate hitter offcourse : google search 'XXX' and 'porn': 64.200.000 and 68.100.000 hits...well...atleast we know what to do when 3d fails...

[tallscot]

LOL!

[composermanII]

A computer is a tool. How many professional mechanics have only one tool (one of those ridiculous all-in-one socket wrenches)? The whole concept of one tool does all in most cases is just plain absurd! I know that there are financial issues that prevent most of us from owning a crop of expensive tools, but it does not change the fact that computers are tools. I agree that a good satire can just plain be fun. I say, choose your weapon, love it and respect others for there choice as well. Remember, if you can laugh at anything and have fun life is just better! Life is to short to be serious all of the time.

Troy McClellan

[tallscot]

Here ya go, Verlon:
http://www.macobserver.com/editorial/2003/08/29.1.shtml

Zero viruses for OS X. Thank you, goodnight.

[hrgiger]

:rolleyes:

[SamuraiSlayer]

I skipped through a few hundred pages of replies after getting eye freeze...

So i get on a mac, loddy da, loddy da, i wanna delete a file, so I right click on it, it renames it to (blank), then I realized, I didn't "right-click" it, I just plain CLICKED it, you see, with macintosh, you don't have a "right-click" even though you have 5 fricken fingers on both hands

and then on them iMacs, who in the %&@* designed that fricken mouse!!!!! i cant even fit my fricken hand on it!!!! Ahhhhhh!!!

one of my favorite games for XBOX, halo, now they have the PC version, HEAR THAT!!! PC VERSION!!! what about... sleezly little apple macintosh version???!!!!

you buy a mac, 3 years later... what happens?? outdated, obsolete, done, finished, no more, go out and buy a nother FRICKEN &@$#^& MACINTOSH!!!!

Windows XP crashing?? NEVER!!! not for me at least. I've had my computer for about 8 months, and NEVER has it crashed, I haven't even had it turned off more than 3 times.

Then there's the winzip thing. NO FRICKEN WINZIP FOR MAC!!!
BUT NOW THEY HAVE THAT ONE THING, WHATEVER ITS CALLED SOME KINDA ZIPPING PROGRAM FOR MACINTOSH. WE CAN GO SOMEWHERE ON THE INTERNET AND GET A FRICKEN ZIP PROGRAM FOR FREE, WINRAR, WINZIP, PKZIP ALL KINDS but only on WINDOWS!!!!

can i get a fricken VOLUME CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so i pop in a CD, it starts playing WHERE'S THE FRICKEN MEDIA PLAYER???!!!!!! How do I turn it down, the neighboors can HEAR MARILYN MANSON AT 2:00 IN THE MORNING!!!!!!

Ahhh!!!!

If I had Bill Gates's money I would buy 1000000 fricken macintoshes and have a apple-smashing party with FRICKEN SLEDGEHAMMERS AND PICK AXES!!!!!


Ahhhhhhhhhhh fricken Macs!!!!!! I hate them!!!


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[SamuraiSlayer]

oh, and that 'developers' guy, here http://www.mightyponygirl.com/greym...misc/balmer.mov
...

I wanna reach through the screen and pull his nose down his throat and out his @$$ because he said "developers" like a fricken million times and everything is starting to go black...

i feel like some video game killing... i guess i'll play halo, witch, by the way, is ONLY on PC!!!

Macintosh...: AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

[toby]

:rolleyes:

[SamuraiSlayer]

Originally posted by Talscot
You can't just drag MS Office from the CD to your HD to install it on the PC, like you can on the Mac.

notice, it says MS office, MS meaning Microsoft, if you just drag it to the hard drive, you don't have much of a choice on what gets installed... WINDOWS IS BETTER

[Red_Oddity]

notice, it says MS office, MS meaning Microsoft, if you just drag it to the hard drive, you don't have much of a choice on what gets installed... WINDOWS IS BETTER


So, it doesn't install any crap on the PC then? LMAO :D :D :D
IE, not thank you...Outlook, please no...installing...what's this crap?...IE and Outlook...wtf?

Sun's StarOffice(all platforms) and AppleWorks/BBEdit(Mac) are all you need...

[composermanII]

Another alternative would be to smash all of the bloody computers, quit our jobs and take a permenant vacation on the beach! Here is just a thought: Does losing your marbles when your computer decides to hate you, even though you did nothing to provoke it, make you feel better? I think the key is to get used mac's and pc's that have taken dirtnaps, keep a sledgehammer handy and smash both of them repeatedly until you feel better. I have old equipment that I enjoy smashing! Or, you could pick yourself up a set of junk tires that are going to be thrown out, mount them on a set of junk wheels and do massive burnouts that would generate enough smoke to cover the neighbors house. Well, that is probably not a good idea. The point to my nonsense is they are all crap and we might as well just have fun no matter what!

Troy

[Red_Oddity]

*smashes computer*

*tears of clothing and runs outside making snowangels in the fallen leaves yelling incrompehinsible words while making high pitched girly giggles*

(*sigh*...if only)

[tallscot]

o i get on a mac, loddy da, loddy da, i wanna delete a file, so I right click on it, it renames it to (blank), then I realized, I didn't "right-click" it, I just plain CLICKED it, you see, with macintosh, you don't have a "right-click" even though you have 5 fricken fingers on both hands

Press the CNTRL button to right-click with a one-button mouse, or spend $10 and get a USB two-button mouse. I threw the mouse out that came with both my PCs and Macs and got a real mouse for both - a Logitech MX 700.

one of my favorite games for XBOX, halo, now they have the PC version, HEAR THAT!!! PC VERSION!!! what about... sleezly little apple macintosh version???!!!!

It's in beta and due in two weeks. Halo was shown two years ago on a Mac at MacWorld, but then Microsoft bought the company and the rest is history.

The Mac has more games than the X Box, BTW. Did you know that?

you buy a mac, 3 years later... what happens?? outdated, obsolete, done, finished, no more, go out and buy a nother FRICKEN &@$#^& MACINTOSH!!!!

Wrong, you can upgrade it. I've upgraded my 7-year old PowerPC to a G4 processor. I've upgraded my PowerBook Pismo and doubled its speed. Tell me, which PC laptop can you upgrade?

My Sony Vaio that I bought four years ago sits in my garage because it has a proprietary motherboard and I can't upgrade it.

Windows XP crashing?? NEVER!!! not for me at least. I've had my computer for about 8 months, and NEVER has it crashed, I haven't even had it turned off more than 3 times.

Except for the very long threads on this very forum about XP crashing with LW. But that was because of a virus corrupting a DLL. OS X and XP are both incredibly stable.

Then there's the winzip thing. NO FRICKEN WINZIP FOR MAC!!!

Wrong. It's been on the Mac for years and years, and is now built into OS X.

WE CAN GO SOMEWHERE ON THE INTERNET AND GET A FRICKEN ZIP PROGRAM FOR FREE, WINRAR, WINZIP, PKZIP ALL KINDS but only on WINDOWS!!!!

Yes, it's called P2P, and you have the same networks available on the Mac, including Kaaza's.

can i get a fricken VOLUME CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's right there on the keyboard, and also can be up on the menu bar.

so i pop in a CD, it starts playing WHERE'S THE FRICKEN MEDIA PLAYER???!!!!!! How do I turn it down

Turn it down with the volume controls right there on the keyboard. The media player is iTunes for music. iTunes 4 is awesome, and now available for Windows. You should download it. It's free.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh fricken Macs!!!!!! I hate them!!!

You just don't know anything about them.

notice, it says MS office, MS meaning Microsoft

Yeah, they have a monopoly on the office suite business, but there are a few other office suites available - ThinkFree Office, AppleWorks, Open Office. I have MS Office. PowerPoint sucks, but Word and Excel are good.

if you just drag it to the hard drive, you don't have much of a choice on what gets installed

So you just run the installer that's there.

[Matt]

hehe, not checked this thread in a while, it's quite funny!
:D

[nerdyguy227]

I think the resion that people like Macs or PCs better is because it is what you grow-up with withc one you learn more about, or simpaly because you are not use to the other one.

It is sort of like religion and plitics. If your born republican, you most likly will be republican for the rest of your life (like me) because that is what you were tought.


This whole argument over Macs and PCs is just saying what you were tought first and what you looked into more. I use a PC because I learned that first.

[js33]

It's like a PC is a republican and a Mac is a democrat. :D

Cheers,
JS

[tallscot]

The only problem I have with that is this - the vast majority of Mac users have extensive experience with Windows, because Windows is so prevalent. Many Mac users use Windows at work all day, and then come home to a Mac.

But most Windows users have never used a Mac, and don't know anything about Macs, as evident by some of the posts in this forum.

More wonderful humor:
http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/AppleMovies/mov/makingiteasier.html

Still holds true today!

[TheWave]

Man I tried reading all the post to this subject, and well I couldn’t too much crap, and dumb asses trying to show that OsX is better then XP. Well ill tell you Xp is way more versatile then OsX, (oh before I forget, to the dumbass who wrote Macs don’t get viruses, you Are WRONG! they do.) well there is ONE OS that out smarts Xp and OSx. !!!LINUX!!! (woooo yuh) Linux is a very complicated Os in the beginning once you learn how to use it, it becomes Much more versatile, mind you installing LW on a Linux machine is like trying to pull an elephant thru a keyhole, but it is possible. And here is the kicker Its absolutely FREE, 100% free programs, free technical support (all you have to do is ask in a forum) and the free programs are as good and even Better then the ones you buy for Windows And Macs. you don’t have to defrag, you don’t need to restart your computer after installing any drivers the computer could run for years on end with out degrading performance (There are virtually no viruses that attack Linux or viruses that infect Linux systems) But Linux doesn’t run any old machine you have to make sure all your hardware is compatible, and there drivers that exsist for it. but I prefer Xp because I don’t have the time to learn it. and I'm to dumb for Linux. :p So Linux wins.. :D if you want to learn about linux or try it out you will see what im talking about .go to www.mandrake.com and http://www.linux.org/ and http://www.linux.com and you too can Download it for free at http://www.linuxiso.org/

[toby]

Originally posted by TheWave
to the dumbass who wrote Macs don’t get viruses, you Are WRONG! they do.

Yes they do. And the Sahara gets rainfall. Did you not read this article?

http://www.macobserver.com/editorial/2003/08/29.1.shtml

The only viruses that infected OSX do so through MS software, and there's 1000 times more viruses on pc. Anyone who says they 'don't get viruses' is either generalizing, or as you said a dumb***.

Do you open every attachment that's emailed to you?

Well I'll tell you Xp is way more versatile then OsX

So how much experience do you have with OSX? How is XP more 'versitile'? Why do I have programs crash at least once a day in XP, on a Pro built system that's 6mos. old, but only once a week in OSX on a 3 yr old G4?

[tallscot]

The only viruses that infected OSX do so through MS software

Just to clarify - those are Windows viruses, not OS X viruses, so they don't do anything. And the article states that it's only with older versions of Office, which aren't even OS X native. So if you are running Office 98 for Classic Mac OS in OS X Classic, you might get a document from a PC user that has a macro virus in it. That virus does nothing to the Mac, because it's a Windows virus. It does nothing to Office for 98.

[tallscot]

Hey Toby, have you heard about this report yet?:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103176,00.html

[toby]

So what evidence was used to justify invasion 8 months ago? Lies. But this is not the place, would you mind turning on private messaging?

[tallscot]

Well, I saw your sig, and your sig is in this forum. You want to change that now? Huge links with Al Qaeda and Iraq.

Oh, and UN resolution 1441 was good enough for me.

The Brits still stand by their intelligence to this very day, so "lie" is a bit strong, in my humble opinion.

[toby]

A signature and a discussion are two different things. Why do you want to discuss this here? What's wrong with private messaging?

I will not post on this subject here anymore.

[nerdyguy227]

Originally posted by js33
It's like a PC is a republican and a Mac is a democrat. :D

Cheers,
JS

Witch are you?

[ddho1981]

This thread is big enough to be its own forum!

Man, I just spent an hour reading this thread start to finish . . . so I felt almost obligated to chime in. Not really much to say that hasn't been said. I'm just glad I know how to use my computer . . . and I can't wait til WindowsGE comes out!

I'm a democratic PC user on XP . . . i thought the pseudo-commercial was funny--regardless of whether or not it was accurate/inaccurate . . . but then, i find satire funny in general.

[SamuraiSlayer]

me again:)

after throwing comments at mac i got blasted with solutions to all of my macintosh hates :confused:

i will be a little more fair this time... macintosh is made to be a very easy to use GUI, while windows offers more advanced features, and after all, apple was the first one to come up with a GUI, windows copied, and in my opinion, made one better than mac.

i forget what this forum had to do with lightwave :confused: but, oh well, its funny, especially that video posted at the beginning


It's like a PC is a republican and a Mac is a democrat.

well... i'm a republican

[js33]

Originally posted by js33
It's like a PC is a republican and a Mac is a democrat.

Cheers,
JS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Witch are you?

I am mainly a PC user (Repbulican) with some Mac (Democrat) leanings. So I'm in the middle but lean a little further to the right.

Cheers,
JS

[composermanII]

A mac-user friend of mine suggested that we take an I-Mac and and E-Machines, drop them off of the Sears Tower and see if Newton was right! And if we have enough spare time we could calculate where each piece would land before we did it!

[nerdyguy227]

Did you know I'm only 12?

[js33]

Originally posted by nerdyguy227
Did you know I'm only 12?

And your point is? We don't age discriminate here. :p

Cheers,
JS

[SamuraiSlayer]

Hmmm... well i'm 13

[js33]

Wow you guys are starting early. If they had machines out when I was 12 and 13 I would have started then too. Of course being so young I guess you have to rely on your parents to buy what you what.

What kind of things are you youngsters doing with Lightwave.
Do you have any examples of your work to post on the forums?

Cheers,
JS

[SamuraiSlayer]

haha yea, my dad got lightwave from a friend for free, he didn't know what it was, gave it to me...

i haven't taken any classes on lightwave because they of course don't have any in middle school, i found a few online tutorials, thats about it, here's a stone fountain i'm workin on...

[js33]

Your dad got LW for free from a friend? So is it a warez copy? or do you have the dongle?

Cheers,
JS

[SamuraiSlayer]

no his friend was moving out of his house and he gave my dad a whole bunch of stuff, he probably didn't know that he put his copy of lightwave in the boxes :D and yes i have the dongle for it

[Red_Oddity]

Originally posted by SamuraiSlayer
.... and after all, apple was the first one to come up with a GUI, windows copied, and in my opinion, made one better than mac.


Actually they both, Apple aswell as MS, stole/borrowed/bought/xerox-ed the graphic user interface and the mouse from Xerox...

on a side note...i think Apple and MS where waaaaay behind the design and innovation Amiga Workbench offered back in those days...but for some reason the worst always seem to make it...

[nerdyguy227]

SamuraiSlayer, how did you do the water?

[SamuraiSlayer]

Originally posted by nerdyguy227
SamuraiSlayer, how did you do the water?

make a disc, make a surface for it and call it like "water" or something, then go to the surface menu, go to water, make it 100% transparent, refraction index: 1.1, reflection 40%, color can be anything, then go to bump, put 100%, click "T" (texture) and go to procedural texture, make a good texture for the water, then go to the "Render Options" menu, click "Ray trace transparency, Ray Trace Refraction, and Ray Trace Reflection

I think that's it

[nerdyguy227]

thanks I'll try it.

[ddho1981]

Originally posted by SamuraiSlayer
. . . . make a good texture for the water . . . .

lol, that's the best part of the mini-tutorial.

[SamuraiSlayer]

Originally posted by ddho1981
lol, that's the best part of the mini-tutorial.

yea, i dont exactly have time to put it into full particulars

[JML]

I use win XP and lightwave , never had any problem with them.

we use mac at the office and our renderfarm is changing to pc.
hopefully, soon we will all use PC.

I think mac is fine for production and photoshop stuff or
for private use,
but for heavy 3D stuff mac hardware and software is far from being a good choice.

[JML]

I did not see there were 16 pages in this thread,
that's crazy.

maybe it would be better to post those 16 pages in the
tip and tricks forum or Lscript form. don't you think ?

[nerdyguy227]

Lets make another page!:)

is the water suppos to move?

[SamuraiSlayer]

Originally posted by nerdyguy227
is the water suppos to move?

with a bump map like that... no, i just use it for stills

if you want simple, but moving, water, what i have done in the past is use a video bump-map... basically, a video clip, AVI, that you could use for a bump-map and it would make it flow like water

[nerdyguy227]

Where and how do you get it?

[tallscot]

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13498

[nerdyguy227]

What is that for?

[tallscot]

It relates to a few of the 16 pages in this thread about problems existing on XP, etc.

[nerdyguy227]

Oh okay

[nerdyguy227]

I "tried" to make a pool (it is not suppos to move)

[riki]

Is this thread still kicking??

[Red_Oddity]

The tread, i don't know...the people in it however...usually agains eachother...:D :D :D