Stutter - Figuring it out..?

[Jim_C]

If you have an HD clip that stutters when thrown on the SE2 timeline but plays fine when force rendered... how would you go about figuring out if it's a weak Grfx card or a weak system or disk speed? Anyone have any tips?

If I turn off the Video Output window completely and the clip is still stuttering when played (audio can be heard) that pretty much has to point to something other than the grfx card right? Since there isn't even video being displayed? Or is SE still going through the process of creating a video stream but just not displaying it (if that is even possible or makes sense)

I'm trying to determine if a beefy grfx card update would do me any good or if a new system (ssiiiggh) is needed.

I'm currently on a Quad Q6600 with an 8800gt but I am only using two 7200rpm satas for my disk array. I bet it's my disk speed now that I type that out and think about it

Anyway thanks for any help anyone might have in figuring out their system's weak spot.

[Shabazzy]

If you haven't already, convert the file to SpeedHQ and see what performance you get from that.

If it's smooth playback and everything works fine, then you know it's a codec issue. If you still get the same problem, then it's more than likely a system problem.

How does your system cope with video files with other file formats and codecs?

Shabazzy

[Jim_C]

Hi Shabz,
Thanks for the response.


If you haven't already, convert the file to SpeedHQ and see what performance you get from that.

Good idea.



How does your system cope with video files with other file formats and codecs?


Totally depends.

The 1080 30p .mov files from my little ~$150 Kodak Zi8 played pretty much seamlessly.

The ones that I was wondering about are raw .mts 1080 60i files from a Panasonic HMC40 drug directly from the memory card to the timeline. I was just ecstatic SE2 would except them at all. They stutter on a regular 2 count basis/ 2 seconds fine stutter 2 seconds fine stutter etc. Force render(s) them out smoothly.

I imagine there is difference in bitrate between the above two and also 30p to 60i making a difference.

I'll play around more with SpeedHQ and also try some of the other recording formats in the panny.

thanks
Jim

[Shabazzy]

The ones that I was wondering about are raw .mts 1080 60i files from a Panasonic HMC40 drug directly from the memory card to the timeline.

Ahh. Yes, I see the problem now. SpeedEdit2 still has issues with some AVCHD files, that won't be ironed until NT gets round to it. So, I doubt the problem is with your computer. It's almost definately codec.

If you didn't want to keep transcoding to SpeedHQ all the time, you could try installing the coreavc decoder:

http://corecodec.com/products/coreavc

or perhaps the ffdshow package:
http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

and see if that sorts the problem out. Once installed SpeedEdit should see these codecs and automatically use the correct one when playing the file back in the timeline, thereby delivering smooth playback.

That's the theory anyway.

Hope this helps

Shabazzy

[Jim_C]

That's the theory anyway.

Hope this helps

Shabazzy

Yes it most certainly does. Thank you.

The activity on these forums is down considerably for SE and VT users and it's nice that you and some others, especially Stevie B have stepped up to fill the void when there are questions.

tata

Jim

[Shabazzy]

Thanks for that mate.

It's nice to be appreciated.

[Dominicc]

I'm having issues in SE2.0 with AVCHD files recorded from a Sony Digital Still Camera. Whether they are shot in 1440x1080, 1280x720p or full 1080i. I can drag them to the timeline, the clip takes forever to conform. When it finally does, the first 2seconds play with the audio. Then it's stutter city throughout the entire clip, including audio. If I render said clip using SpeedHQ (uncompressed) or ProjectSize. It alters the clip resolution and looks like crap. This camera also records in MP4, my guess is a version of AVCHDLite. But if the file is render as project size, it does playback fine. So I know it's not the drives, gfx card or ram. Newtek should issue an update for direct playback support of these files since TC450 and 850's are going to see a lot of these video type needed from a live use in the DDR's. We shouldn't have to spend countless hours conforming a bunch of files in order to just play them back cleanly or edit them freely. ijs.

[Shabazzy]

I'm having issues in SE2.0 with AVCHD files recorded from a Sony Digital Still Camera.

Have you tried upgrading to SpeedEDIT 2.1?

Shabazzy

[Jim_C]

If I render said clip using SpeedHQ (uncompressed) or ProjectSize. It alters the clip resolution and looks like crap.

When viewing your files in the file bin of your project, right click on them and choose 'Render to SpeedHQ' and choose a folder to put the render. This should create an identical in size, frame rate, resolution etc to your original clip.

Unfortunately there is no much needed batch rendering in SE. If you have to do many conversions that way its all manual. Although depending on your system specs you can start 2+ renders at once and let em churn.

[billmi]

The ones that I was wondering about are raw .mts 1080 60i files from a Panasonic HMC40 drug directly from the memory card to the timeline.

How do they do if you copy them to a hard drive (or hard drive array) rather than try to play them out of the memory card?

[Jim_C]

How do they do if you copy them to a hard drive (or hard drive array) rather than try to play them out of the memory card?

Hi Bill,

I see now I definitely worded that wrong. I meant I drag them straight from the card to the 2 disk array then to the timeline. Trying to imply no intermediate rendering.

[Dominicc]

Hey folks,
Just to clarify. I have upgraded to 2.1SE. Even though every once in a while it will just lock up or crash out. Sometimes even on launching it will go to the open menu. I'll select new project etc... and it will crash. Most times my workaround is to start up a finished project and then I'll have to delete all the pieces out of it, then start fresh from there. Also I'm not playing these clips off the cards. Thats a bad idea for anyone to try. The Sony files off this digital still camera makes it launch their program called PMB. Once it compiles all the files you're stuck with 2 options. One is to right click the file and export to WMV or a youtube clip. Which I haven't tried because of fear it would be worse. The way I'm getting them out natively as their full 1080i clips is to drag them from this program to the NewTek timeline. From there as soon as I try to play it, nada... I have to render it in order to do anything with this file.

:hat:

[Shabazzy]

The way I'm getting them out natively as their full 1080i clips is to drag them from this program to the NewTek timeline. From there as soon as I try to play it, nada... I have to render it in order to do anything with this file.

It sounds to me like you're bypassing SE's "Add Media" window altogether and I'm not sure why you'd do that. However, if you open the "Add Media" window (CTRL+I or Window>Add Media) and locate the directory on the local drive or external drive that you've copied the native .mp4 file to, and then follow Jim C's suggestion of 'Right Clicking' the clip from within the "Add Media" window, then selecting "Render to SpeedHQ". From here I'd place the new SpeedHQ .avi's in their their own directory (folder) and work from that directory, you don't have to, but it just makes things better organised and you're less likely to copy the native files onto the timeline by mistake.

Don't put anything on the timeline before you've performed this act.

After you've performed it, drag the newly rendered SpeedHQ .avi files to the timeline and you should be ok. This technique should render the original clips to new .avi files with the same dimensions and still preserve the quality of the original clip.

If you're getting the wrong resolution or image quality you may need to install the NewTek Multi-Codec Pack or NewTek TriCaster Codec Pack (if you're using a TriCaster) to possibly rectify that problem.

Once you've done that, I'd start a new project and redo your edit using the new SpeedHQ clips instead.

Shabazzy

[Dominicc]

It sounds to me like you're bypassing SE's "Add Media" window altogether and I'm not sure why you'd do that. However, if you open the "Add Media" window (CTRL+I or Window>Add Media) and locate the directory on the local drive or external drive that you've copied the native .mp4 file to,

Dragging the file or selecting it from the "add media" menu is basically the same thing. Doesn't change work flow at all. Also my originals are in tact. I make a copy of them to a different folder on my drive for each project I create and natively NewTek should be able to use them. But I will try again the right click render now to see if the file stays the same. I've used that already but anything we concert stage light is messing up the file. I'm not alterign the settings at all. Render clip>SpeedHQ Project Size or SpeedHQ> to newfolder. Then I load those clips back into SE from "add media" But they certainly aren't as high of quality as I'm seeing playing them in the Sony PMB program to preview them.

Cheers,
Dom :thumbsup:

[Shabazzy]

Hi Dom,

.....and natively NewTek should be able to use them.
Unfortunately this is not true. SpeedEDIT's (and any video editing program) file acceptance is not universal. It depends greatly on whether the codec that a file format uses is available to SpeedEDIT and whether that codec will allow SpeedEDIT to utilise all of it's features. Unfortunately camera manufacturers usually tailor their codec's feature set for full use with their own software or companies that have paid them a licence to do so. Sony is notorious for their proprietary equipment and technologies.

But I will try again the right click render now to see if the file stays the same. I've used that already but anything we concert stage light is messing up the file. I'm not alterign the settings at all. Render clip>SpeedHQ Project Size or SpeedHQ> to newfolder. Then I load those clips back into SE from "add media" But they certainly aren't as high of quality as I'm seeing playing them in the Sony PMB program to preview them.

The reason I suggest using the Add Media window is because that's (probably) the most convenient place to transcode your native file to SpeedHQ. Dragging the files from PMB onto the SpeedEDIT timeline won't transcode the clip to SpeedHQ.

With regard to the quality issue, this can be a number of factors.

There are two possibilities that spring to mind:

One: The problem with TVs versus Computer Screens

I'm assuming that you're judging the quality based on the results of a computer screen and not a TV. Again this is just an assumption so I'm more than likely wrong about that.

Are you using the SpeedEDIT's preview window to judge the results or is your video editing setup hooked up to a HDTV or broadcast monitor for previewing?

Are you rendering out the edited version of the project to some other file format (.mov, .mpg, .avi etc) and using a codec that produces poor results?

I ask these questions, because what I'm not entirely clear on, is at what point in your workflow you come to the conclusion that the quality isn't up to much after the clip's been transcoded to SpeedHQ. Is it after editing and rendering is finalised or during editing and footage is being previewed as you edit?

Two: The Trouble With Codecs

As I said earlier, using PMB to preview your clips natively would mean that PMB has full access to the .mp4 file's codec features and as a result PMB will provide you with all the visual glory you'd expect to see. Unfortunately, that means that you're stuck with using PMB or maybe Sony Vegas to do your editing if you want to retain that level of quality.

Panasonic's TM700 cameras have the same issues with their 1080p 50fps files. Their lower resolution files all seem to work fine in SpeedEDIT.

Unless NewTek pay Sony a licence fee or the footage is converted (using maybe VirutalDub or TMPGEnc) into a high quality format that SE likes and won't degrade, you're only option to retain high quality edits is to use another editor.

Sad but true.

Shabazzy

[John Perkins]

Some h.264 files are extremely CPU hungry.

We'll be making some improvements to that soon although don't expect miracles. I can say that some files that previously stuttered are now playing back at full framerate.

In the meantime, transcoding to SpeedHQ as previously suggested is a good option.

As for the crashes you've experienced, we'd need more information to find the cause. Try to narrow it down to the fewest repeatable steps so that we can duplicate the problem.

[samsmall]

I think I need a codec to get files recorded on the tricaster to play in speededit. To have to transcode files that are generated in the same box to play in that box is not acceptable. There has to be a solution here other than transcoding I've got long form projects to finish that were shot on the tricaster and need to be finished quickly on the tricaster.

[SBowie]

I've got long form projects to finish that were shot on the tricaster and need to be finished quickly on the tricaster.Which TriCaster, what file format? Off the top of my head, any file recorded using TriCaster's recording feature will load into SE on TriCaster. A copy of SE standalone running on another workstation might need a codec installed if you recorded as SpeedHQ. Other than that one case, I don't think any additional codec is needed.