DP Instance update

[dpont]

A few fixes in DP Instance,
-Path Distribution is now correctly limited by the Instance number.
-Instance Diffusion model wasn't accurate for area lights.
-Slightly less Ram memory used and a bit faster (not for huge
number of instances).
-For user needing radiosity effect, don't forget to check
"Volumetric Radiosity" in the GI panel.

No other speed improvement planned in its development,
so I closed this project, the win32 version is no more
limited in render size and I removed watermark.

http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[COBRASoft]

Denis: thank you very much! Is there a chance for a 64 bit version?

[-EsHrA-]

excellent!! :)
thanks Denis!

mlon

[arsad]

Thank you very much Denis! Merci beaucoup!!!

[nickdigital]

I must be doing something wrong cuz I can't get the instances to render.

1. Add a null.
2. Add a 1m box.
3. Add the DP Instance plug-in to the null and add the 1m box to the Scene Object List>Reference List.
4. Add the DP Instance plug-in to the Volumetrics tab.
5. Hit F9 and nothing shows up.

What am I missing?

Thx.

[Dodgy]

This is awesome denis! Thanks a lot!

[OFF]

it's great news!
but i'm also can't get rendered result when was trying to use particle emitter and subdivided mesh for placing instances
can somebody post right working test scene?

[dpont]

May be not easy to make it works for the first time,
my advice, enable the "Box Preview" to see if you
get a proper setup in ogl (realtime with a reasonnable
number of instances), in "Pivot" mode make sure
that the instance is not 'confused' with the reference
itself (at the same place).

Denis.

[dpont]

Got a bug report,
Displacement mode is broken in this version,
and DPM Scan not working more than once,
hope to fix this, may be not shortly.

Denis.

[dpont]

Got a bug report,
Displacement mode is broken in this version,
and DPM Scan not working more than once..

Solved,
added also an "Oscillate" behavior in Displacement tab,
DP Instance has been updated to version 1.03,
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[-EsHrA-]

"maybe not shortly."

hehe.. :)


mlon

[Cohen]

Very impressive. :D

[juanjgon]

Thanks, great work. I hope we could see the 64bits soon.

[Pavlov]

cant wait to test it... just curious to see if it works with Kray too ;)

Paolo

[Phil]

Does this instancing approach provided unique instance IDs (equivalent to object IDs)? Some shaders/nodal systems use those. HDInstance, sadly, has never been updated to deal with this.

[dpont]

DP Instance has a "Get Instance ID" option for nodal surfacing
it works via objectID input.

I'm not Kray, but I don't think that it could render
volumetrics, may be hypervoxels at least potentially.
I'm also sure that DP Instance is not competitive
with other instancing solutions for huge number
of instances considering speed.

Actually I'm fighting with a memory leak issue in
DP Instance, hope to solve it for a future update.

Denis.

[Phil]

Hmm. I'm mainly thinking of objects using nodal systems like, for example, vRoom. vRoom needs an object ID to work with. For instances, this object ID would be different for each instance. This is where HDInstance fails. If DP Instance can do this, that would be neat! Is there a Mac build around? :)

[Nicolas Jordan]

I did a test with 50,000 instances of grass clumps to create a field of grass. There are still a few bare areas even with 50,000. This took 47 minutes to render on my i7 at work.

There was one problem I ran into while creating this scene so I am not sure if it's a bug or a limitation. I got crashes when I used subD terrain with a displacement applied to create the hills. I ended up just using a high density ground mesh instead of using SubDs and it seemed to work ok after that.

Overall this is a very nice plugin adding some good instancing functions to Lightwave!

[Nicolas Jordan]

I must be doing something wrong cuz I can't get the instances to render.

1. Add a null.
2. Add a 1m box.
3. Add the DP Instance plug-in to the null and add the 1m box to the Scene Object List>Reference List.
4. Add the DP Instance plug-in to the Volumetrics tab.
5. Hit F9 and nothing shows up.

What am I missing?

Thx.

Works ok here. Here is the scene if you want to look at it.

[nickdigital]

Works ok here. Here is the scene if you want to look at it.

Thx! I'll check this out.

[nickdigital]

Works ok here. Here is the scene if you want to look at it.

Ok so I loaded up your scene and hit F9. To me it doesn't look like it's still working. Shouldn't I have a render of the box where that Null is since DP_Instance is applied to it. If I turn off the box geometry nothing shows up but that brown backdrop.

I'm familiar with HDInstance where I turn off the object that I want instanced and only render my point geometry that has HDI applied to it.

This is on 9.6.

[Nicolas Jordan]

Looks like your doing everything right to me. I tested the scene I sent you in 9.6 and 2 cubes render out just fine so it's really puzzling that you are only getting the one cube to render out. I would normally say that you forgot to add the volumetric plugin but I think you mentioned that you already did that so it should work. :stumped:

[nickdigital]

Looks like your doing everything right to me. I tested the scene I sent you in 9.6 and 2 cubes render out just fine so it's really puzzling that you are only getting the one cube to render out. I would normally say that you forgot to add the volumetric plugin but I think you mentioned that you already did that so it should work. :stumped:

Weirdness...:grumpy:

I'm just loading up your scene and hitting F9. The only thing I messed with was turning off the checkbox in Scene Editor on the box to check that the instance would render and not the actual box.

[erikals]

I did a test with 50,000 instances of grass clumps to create a field of grass. There are still a few bare areas even with 50,000. This took 47 minutes to render on my i7 at work.

it might look like it's a bit slow though,...
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=5&t=573931&page=1&pp=15
(not sure how many polys this is, but it was on a DouCore PC and used about 3min to render)

(btw, make sure that the AA isn't what's eating up the rendertime on your render)

[dpont]

Hmm. I'm mainly thinking of objects using nodal systems like, for example, vRoom. vRoom needs an object ID to work with. For instances, this object ID would be different for each instance...

Infortunatly as I know vRoom is a shader plugin
and there are no Shader functions for third party,
so no way to use vRoom for a (third party) instance.

I updated DP Instance to version 1.05,
fixed a memory leak while rendering a sequence (F10),
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html


Denis.

[3dworks]

denis, any chance to compile this nice thing for mac UB64? michael? :help:

[Paul24]

GREAT plug, thanks Denis. Any chance to have it for Windows/Lightwave 64?

[Lightwolf]

Hmm. I'm mainly thinking of objects using nodal systems like, for example, vRoom. vRoom needs an object ID to work with. For instances, this object ID would be different for each instance. This is where HDInstance fails. If DP Instance can do this, that would be neat!
The object ID is used by plugins to retrieve mesh information, which wouldn't work as the object doesn't actually exist within LW if you use a fake one.
Ideally a plugin would need to know that this is an instance and then needs to be able to retrieve the id of the original geometry - if you want a unique id for every instance that is.

Cheers,
Mike

[dpont]

I want to thank Marvin Landis
for the win64 version of DP Instance,
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[Phil]

The object ID is used by plugins to retrieve mesh information, which wouldn't work as the object doesn't actually exist within LW if you use a fake one.
Ideally a plugin would need to know that this is an instance and then needs to be able to retrieve the id of the original geometry - if you want a unique id for every instance that is.

Cheers,
Mike

I had the uninformed viewpoint that the instancing system could simply return a fake object ID for the instance being queried (the fake object now has a fake object ID). My understanding is that vRoom uses the object ID to define its room layout and construction such that all frames get the same room configuration even if one stops and restarts the rendering (or deploys the scene on the farm). Without that ID, vRoom cannot generate its rooms. A fake ID would allow it to proceed, but I admit that I'm coming from an uninformed viewpoint

I'd mentioned this to Graham in the past and he found the idea interesting, but he's never found the time or energy to implement it. He didn't suggest that it was an impossible or undesirable approach to fix the issues faced by vRoom and others.

[Lightwolf]

I had the uninformed viewpoint that the instancing system could simply return a fake object ID for the instance being queried (the fake object now has a fake object ID).
Well, the concept of an objectID exists within LW to allow the plugins to retrieve information on the object from various parts of the scene database.
So it has a very specific purpose (and it also useable beyond the original concept, i.e. for pseudo-random shading).
But, fake IDs would need a different system as they couldn't perform the primary purpose. In the worst case LW would just crash - if not then it will just no return meaningful values (neither of which would help any of the plugins that actually need to retrieve data, such as vRoom - or even anything that needs UV maps).

Cheers,
Mike

[Lightwolf]

And I do see what you mean by a fake ID, the only way to expose that would be through a note that only has an output.
But... that value needs to come from somewhere. And in the current system nodes have no direct connection to their context (which node editor they run in). There's also no (clean) way to transfer arbitrary data from the code that evaluates the node editor into the node editor it actually evaluates (and thus making that data available within said node editor).

If you get what I mean.... :hey:

Cheers,
Mike

[Phil]

Well, the concept of an objectID exists within LW to allow the plugins to retrieve information on the object from various parts of the scene database.
So it has a very specific purpose (and it also useable beyond the original concept, i.e. for pseudo-random shading).
But, fake IDs would need a different system as they couldn't perform the primary purpose. In the worst case LW would just crash - if not then it will just no return meaningful values (neither of which would help any of the plugins that actually need to retrieve data, such as vRoom - or even anything that needs UV maps).

Cheers,
Mike

Why couldn't they? My expectation had been that the instancing system would deliver the fake ID. It would know which object was being instanced in that case. Depending on what properties are needed, I could imagine that the instancing system would retrieve the properties from the original object and apply any offset necessary to be relevant to the instance.

I guess the question comes down to what are object IDs generally used for (outside of the shader case) and what makes it impossible to have all/some of those not be handled by a reference to the original object in the instancing system?

I see your following post, but again I'm not entirely sure I follow. If I have a shader, for example, on a surface, and it utilises the object ID, and the shader is called from an instance, I would have thought the call to the object ID would have gone through the instancer. I'm not sure why the node editor and context comes into play here. As I said, I'm uninformed, so these are questions born of ignorance and of interest.

[Lightwolf]

Why couldn't they? My expectation had been that the instancing system would deliver the fake ID.
The fake ID would need to be something other than what ObjectIDs currently represent. I.e. an instance counter for example.
But... there is no way to transmit the information to a nodal context.

It would know which object was being instanced in that case. Depending on what properties are needed, I could imagine that the instancing system would retrieve the properties from the original object and apply any offset necessary to be relevant to the instance.
Unfortunately that would require wrapping a lot of the SDK using intermediate layers and then making sure that everything that runs within the context of the instance actually uses those - as opposed to the real SDK functions.
Which doesn't quite work if you consider surfaces for example, where the same code can easily run on a normal item or an instance.

I guess the question comes down to what are object IDs generally used for (outside of the shader case) and what makes it impossible to have all/some of those not be handled by a reference to the original object in the instancing system?
To retrieve any information related to the item: vmaps, positions, mesh data, render flags, lighting flags, parenting, etc...

I see your following post, but again I'm not entirely sure I follow. If I have a shader, for example, on a surface, and it utilises the object ID, and the shader is called from an instance, I would have thought the call to the object ID would have gone through the instancer.
Nope, they don't. Think of the ID as an index, and LW providing a lot of functions that (amongst other things) expect said index as a parameter. And those functions are being called both by internal as well as plugin code.
I suspect that the shaders get the object ID of the original mesh, but evaluation points (in local and world coordinates) etc... use the instanced position.

There's basically no hook to substitute anything.

Cheers,
Mike

[Paul24]

I want to thank Marvin Landis
for the win64 version of DP Instance,
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

:thumbsup: Super GREAT.
Thanks Marvin & Denis

[CaptainMarlowe]

Denis, I'm always impressed by what you are able to do, and your extreme generosity with your plug-ins.
Thanks also to those who help spreading your work with 64-bits or mac versions.

Since HDI doesn't seem to get Mac 64 in a near future, I could more than certainly use a Mac 64 bits version of DP Instance. (hints, hints...)

En tout cas un grand merci et bravo. Votre travail décuple les possibilités de Lightwave. Je suis très admiratif de votre talent.

[lino.grandi]

I simply have no words.

Thank you Denis...you're really THE coder here.

[nickdigital]

I've tried the 64 bit version and it still doesn't work for me. I'm using the cubetest that Nicolas posted.

Is there a setting in LW that needs to be changed on my end?

:help:

[dpont]

I've tried the 64 bit version and it still doesn't work for me. I'm using the cubetest that Nicolas posted.

Is there a setting in LW that needs to be changed on my end?
...

The cubetest scene works correctly, just press F9,
Marvin confirmed that it works with the x64 version,
a question, do you see the ogl preview of the
instance bounding box beside the reference object?

You may try to remove the plugin and re-add it.

Denis.

[nickdigital]

I've removed and re-added the plug-in.

Load up the scene...hit F9 and I only get the box geometry to render. No instance.

I don't see an ogl preview bounding box preview. And I've switched between the different preview modes (Box, Points, Off).

So is this a graphics card issue? We're running NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450's.

[marvinl]

I've removed and re-added the plug-in.

Load up the scene...hit F9 and I only get the box geometry to render. No instance.

I don't see an ogl preview bounding box preview. And I've switched between the different preview modes (Box, Points, Off).

So is this a graphics card issue? We're running NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450's.

I'm not sure what the problem could be. I only have the LW9.6 Win64 trial version here at work, but just now I downloaded the x64 version of the plugin from Denis' web page and the Nicolas' cubetest.zip file from this thread. I added the plugin, loaded the cubetest.lws scene, and hit F9. The result is below.

It shouldn't have anything to do with your graphics card.

88360

[nickdigital]

I'm not sure what the problem could be. I only have the LW9.6 Win64 trial version here at work, but just now I downloaded the x64 version of the plugin from Denis' web page and the Nicolas' cubetest.zip file from this thread. I added the plugin, loaded the cubetest.lws scene, and hit F9. The result is below.

It shouldn't have anything to do with your graphics card.

88360

Man, I feel so left out of the fun. :grumpy:

[artstorm]

The cubetest scene works correctly, just press F9,
Marvin confirmed that it works with the x64 version,


I can also confirm that the x64 version works just fine here as well.
And Denis, wow, just wow, what another amazing plugin you're adding here to your already impressive list. Awesome!

[dpont]

...I don't see an ogl preview bounding box preview. And I've switched between the different preview modes (Box, Points, Off)...

I suspected something, DP Instance need
to have access and rights to the root directory,
is there something special in your configuration?

Denis.

[stevecullum]

This is a great plugin - thanks Denis!

Does anyone else get a crash when adding and removing the DPM Scan?

[nickdigital]

I suspected something, DP Instance need
to have access and rights to the root directory,
is there something special in your configuration?

Denis.

Do you mean the C: drive? I should have access. Can you be more specific?

I can check with the IS&T department to see if they have some restrictions on our accounts.

[dpont]

...Does anyone else get a crash when adding and removing the DPM Scan?

I got it in the version 1.0,
but no more after a fix in version 1.03.

Denis.

[dpont]

Do you mean the C: drive? I should have access. Can you be more specific?

I can check with the IS&T department to see if they have some restrictions on our accounts.

WinXP, Vista, 7?
Could you try to run Windows as Administrator?

Denis.

[stevecullum]

I got it in the version 1.0,
but no more after a fix in version 1.03.


Actually upon further testing, the dpm scan was a red herring. The crashing appears to be if I use the preview boxes. With them on, its unstable - eg next click on the interface somewhere and LW is gone. If I shut them off, I get a bit of a delay, but it doesn't crash any more.

[nickdigital]

WinXP, Vista, 7?
Could you try to run Windows as Administrator?

Denis.

WinXP.

Well it worked as a local admin. I guess this doesn't like accounts tied to domains?

Thx for your help.

[dpont]

...Well it worked as a local admin. I guess this doesn't like accounts tied to domains?...

I should add a note about this,
full access to the root directory could be denied
in other situations I think, in a network for instance...

Denis.

[nickdigital]

Sounds great. Looking forward to playing with this.

You are a god among men. :bowdown:

[K-Dawg]

Wow, this is SWEET Denis. :D Awesome man. Great job.

I see the next fellow getting hired at Newtek ,-)

[K-Dawg]

Oh something just happend to me. I had a chrash 2 times doing same thing.

Here report.
I DL and Installed the x64 version 1.05 on LW 9.6.
DL and loaded the cubetest scene from the thread.
Opened Properties for the Null
Opened the Plugin Setting interface
As I wanted to close the Plugininterface I had a crash.

Happend 2 times in a row same steps.

Hope this helps.

Oh btw. Vista Ultimate x64 and not using Hub

[stevecullum]

Oh something just happend to me. I had a chrash 2 times doing same thing.

Were you previewing the instances?

I have crashes if I choose to display previews.

[K-Dawg]

I don't exactly know what you mean. Do you mean preview like OpenGL view?

I saw the bounding box of the Instanced Box in OpenGL. Other than that I didn't do anything to the scene than Load, select Null (if not selected) press P and double Click the Plugin. After looking at the setting (no changes) and wanting to shut the GUI, crash.

[marvinl]

I don't exactly know what you mean. Do you mean preview like OpenGL view?

I saw the bounding box of the Instanced Box in OpenGL. Other than that I didn't do anything to the scene than Load, select Null (if not selected) press P and double Click the Plugin. After looking at the setting (no changes) and wanting to shut the GUI, crash.

Thanks for the report, I can reproduce the crash you describe.

Until the exact problem can be tracked down, I did discover that if you do an F9 render before you try to close the plugin interface, the crash no longer occurs.


Steve, I am not seeing the crashes you are describing with the instance previews. I can do either the bounding box previews or the point previews just fine. Anything else in particular you can describe to try and pinpoint the problem?

[K-Dawg]

Nope. Still crashes on me, even after I do a F9.

Also I found out, when I have the Plugin open and go in Surface Editor it can Crash. Doesn't always happen, but did a few times.

I wanted to uncheck the Object that is beeing Instanced so it doesn't show up on the render.

But again, this doesn't always happen. The Plugin GUI crash though always happens on me, even after F9.

Well good to know it's not only me so this might be helpful to solve the probblem. Besides that I had a nice Test.

It is also possible to Instance on points only without a Null. That is nice :)

[K-Dawg]

I found something else out.

If I Instance a SubD Object and don't uncheck in Scene Editor, all my Instances are Subpatched. When I uncheck the Reference Object in Scene Editor, the Instances are all not Subdivided and Poly objects instead.

EDIT:
If I do it in the Rendertab with Unseen.... then I get the Subdividing. I Prefer the Hiding in Scene Editor though. cause with quit a few Objects as References, that is alot easier to hide than the Rendertab.

I hope this can be possible to do.

Greetz

[stevecullum]

Steve, I am not seeing the crashes you are describing with the instance previews. I can do either the bounding box previews or the point previews just fine. Anything else in particular you can describe to try and pinpoint the problem?

Now I've had another go, I can't repeat what was happening before, even though it crashed every time...must be a step I'm doing differently...I'll keep testing for a repeatable crash. Thanks

[shrox]

I get an error when I try to open the zip file I just downloaded:

! E:\DP_Instance_x32.zip: Unexpected end of archive

When I extract:

! E:\DP_Instance_x32.zip: The archive is either in unknown format or damaged

Probably just a corrupt file.

[RudySchneider]

Try using 7-Zip (that's what I had to do...).

[shrox]

Try using 7-Zip (that's what I had to do...).

Wump, there it is...

[K-Dawg]

@ Steve
Now I know what you mean with Preview.

Well the cubetest scene from this Thread had it set to Box Preview. As I loaded the the scene nothing happened and I could render without any probs. As soon as I opened the plugin GUI, I could do the settings etc. but closing Plugin gives me a crash.

Now I did some more testing and thats when I figured out what you ment :D

It doens't matter if I have it set Off, Point or Box preview. As soon as I want to close the GUI, LW crashes.

My Workaround already is, set everything for the plugin, save scene and let it crash/shut LW down. Restart LW, load scene and work from there on.

I also found out, Turning on the Raytrace Settings make the render very slow. Depending on what is set to on. Raytrace Shadows gives a few more secs to the render, Raytrace Reflection gives me a bit more than a Minute added. When I activate all Raytrace settings, the Render seems to freeze and just advances with the %age very very very slow. I aborted the render after 5 Minutes and it moved from 32% to 37% in more than 4 Minutes.

[thekho]

Wow, that's awesome plugin! Thanks very much denis :thumbsup:

[K-Dawg]

Yes it sure is. I should have been to bed for a long time, but this Plugin is fun :D

Something I was playing with. Render took about 2:15 with FG 2 Bounces 50% Multiplier.

Kinda long.

Greetz

[COBRASoft]

K-Dawg: could you share your scene please? I can rotate and scale instances, but not move them. And I want to try your project ones on my I7 for speed :D.

[marvinl]

Well, I'm not sure this is good news or bad news... I cannot reproduce the crashing on my machine at home where I do the Visual C++ compiles of the x64 plugins for Denis. That's going to make it completely impossible to debug the problem. I'm glad at least you have found a way to work around the problem for now, K-Dawg.

And I just thought I would share the image of one of the scenes I have been experimenting with. It contains 6 different Xfrog trees, instanced to an object that contains 716 points using the plugin's "Instance Position: Points" capability.

Perspective Camera, Gaussian filter, 8 anti-aliasing. Render time 3 min. 37 sec.


88376

[Pavlov]

hi,
one thing which would make the difference is if instanced items could have custom GI settings (non global ones).
This way we could render with high settings the whole scene and have very low GI on grass (i.e. uncached GI with low rays). Building a cache irradiance on grass takes ages and a lot of ram, it should be deactivable on grass only. This is what Kray does, it's blazing fast and it looks good. HDi doesnt allow for this, in fact i never could use it in production with GI.
A big thank to Denis, keep on the awesome work.

Paolo

[3dworks]

great idea! +1

markus

[K-Dawg]

@ Cobra
sure I can do that. But It'll be with spheres instead of chairs though :D

I'll also set up the random coloring. Give me some time to do it.

@ Marvin
That doesn't sound good, but I can record the problem if that would help.

[COBRASoft]

Thanks K-Dawg! Looking forward to it.

DPont, you're the best! I can't understand why NT is not able to get you on board somehow, no matter what.

[K-Dawg]

Didn't take me too long.

Here you go. Btw. I guess the long rendering had to do with the reflections of the chair/s. The Spheres only took me ~ 20 secs to render.

I found another problem. When I want to clear the scene or close Layout it chrashes on me with the Plugin. Scene without Plugin doesn't crash. Haven't figured out if its the Volumetric Plugin or the Instance one yet. I'll try to figure that out and let you guys know.

Greetz

[K-Dawg]

Hmmm...
No matter what I do. LW Crashes on me with the Plugin.
I can Deactivate the Plugin, but as soon as I want to remove the Plugin, LW Crashes.

If I want to make any changes and forget to save, then close Plugin. Crash.

If I want to clear scene or close LW...Crash.

The Volumetric Plugin is no prob. I can deactivate and remove as I like, no crash there. So I assume it has to be something with the Instance Plugin.

I hope you guys can get that settled. Besides that, this Plugin is fun and great. I'm really enjoying it and have fun testing it and giving feedback.

Last time I had fun like that with a plugin was with Arts Bezier Bridge :D

Greetz

[LAV]

I simply have no words.

Thank you Denis...you're really THE coder here.

I agree.
The coder. :thumbsup:

Many thanks

[stevecullum]

@ Steve
Now I know what you mean with Preview.

Well the cubetest scene from this Thread had it set to Box Preview. As I loaded the the scene nothing happened and I could render without any probs. As soon as I opened the plugin GUI, I could do the settings etc. but closing Plugin gives me a crash.

Thanks for confirming!

I'll have to use your workaround for now, until the cause is found.

[stevecullum]

DPont, you're the best! I can't understand why NT is not able to get you on board somehow, no matter what.

Perhaps because he doesn't want to? ;)

[goakes]

Same crash trouble as K-Dawg for me. When I first open scene it will render
just fine, but closing plugin always creates crash. Making a plugin change (more instances),
saving the scene, then closing plugin, will cause crash. If I then reload the scene the plugin
will reflect the changes in plugin settings made before crash (more instances), but a F9 render will only render the original number of instances.

[dpont]

...I found another problem. When I want to clear the scene or close Layout it chrashes on me with the Plugin. Scene without Plugin doesn't crash. Haven't figured out if its the Volumetric Plugin or the Instance one yet. I'll try to figure that out and let you guys know...

We are not able to reproduce these issues with
your scene, me with win32 or Marvin with win64 version,
so there's nothing we can do yet to solve this,
even if can't exclude some random unstability
on my side of course.

Both win32 and win64 version of DP Instance
have been updated to 1.06, no more need to have
full access to root directory (but the plugin has
not been tested in a network with LWSN)
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[nickdigital]

Great! Looking forward to testing this out. I'll let you know of any problems on Monday.

Thanks again.

[COBRASoft]

Perhaps because he doesn't want to? ;)

That's why I said 'no matter what' :D. It's his good right to choose what he wants to do, but NT should try everything they can if they haven't already.

[dpont]

...If I then reload the scene the plugin
will reflect the changes in plugin settings made before crash (more instances), but a F9 render will only render the original number of instances.

With "Point Distribution" mode you can't have more
instances than the number of points in this object,
in this scene, it is already set to the maximum 154
you could increase it but this will not change
the number of rendered instances.

Denis.

[K-Dawg]

Hi Denis,
I understand the issue not being able to recreate the crashing. Three of us have it, so I'm confident it's not my LW causing the issue.

Do you think it is possible to do a version of the plugin, that generates a Crashreport that can then be sent to you to trace the issue? It doesn't have to be able to email you straight ahead, but just save a crashreport file in the directory where the Scene is saved at. That way we could just upload the file like in the forum or send to you by email.

That version of course doesn't have to be legimate version, but maybe thats a good thing for bugtracking.

Just an idea.

@ goakes
yeah, if your trying my scene, then you can't pass the maximum of 154 Instances, cause I only have 154 Points.

Greetz

[dpont]

DP Instance has been updated to version 1.07,
for both win32 and win64 system,
Marvin found a few critical things,
fixing possible cause of unstability/issues in preview update
of the custom object plugin, mostly reported for win64 version.
but since it worked for us, don't know for you..
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[stevecullum]

Thanks Denis! Time to test...

[K-Dawg]

What ever you guys did you nailed it :)

Only issue now is the clearing of the scene and closing Layout that causes crashes. Besides that I can close the plugin without crash. Great job guys :)

Greetz

[dpont]

..Only issue now is the clearing of the scene and closing Layout that causes crashes...

Does it crash while clearing the scene,
if you doesn't render, just preview?

Denis.

[K-Dawg]

Yup. even when I render the scene I posted, it crashes when I clear scene or close Layout.

[stevecullum]

No crashing issues so far for me either. Not getting the clear scene crash here, maybe something else in your scene Kevin?

Works nicely with DP Lights but fog doesn't appear to work though...

[dpont]

Only issue now is the clearing of the scene and closing Layout that causes crashes...

Could be related to the "Point Distribution"
of your sample scene,
could you try to clear the Cubetest scene ("Pivot Distribution").

Denis.

[K-Dawg]

Hi Denis,
yes the cubetest scene with the instancing set to pivot clears with no crash.

So it might be due to the "Point Distribution"? Maybe a Bug?

Hope that can help.

Greetz.

[dpont]

DP Instance has been updated to version 1.08,
for both win32 and win64,
fixed an issue in the custom object plugin,
while clearing a scene in "Point Distribution" mode.
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Thanks for testing and report,
Denis.

[K-Dawg]

Many many many many many Thanks Denis.

You just Rock. The plugin has been great since the beginning, but now it's getting better and better. For now I really have no idea what else to say :D

might have to start doing some funky things I never did to do more weired tests :D

Greetz and thx very much.

[Nicolas Jordan]

Here is the Grassy Field scene content for the render I posted earlier in this thread. I received a request from a forum member who asked if I could send it to them so that they could use it for their own purposes. I thought I would just post it here so anyone who wants can have access to it and use it for whatever they would like.

[colkai]

Many many many many many Thanks Denis.

You just Rock.
Quote for 100% pure quality agreement! :thumbsup:

[nickdigital]

I can get instances to render now.

How does the dpm workflow work?

I have an animation of a Pteranadon that I've dpm scanned. When I apply that dpm motion to my instance object my object is still in the default object pose.

I also notice that depending on the Display SubPatch Level of my animation the file size of the dpm file varies. This different dpm files also render the instances differently. The dpm file on a scan of an object set to Display level 1 renders the instance in the default un-animated pose. The dpm file on a scan of an object set to 0 garbles up the mesh. The point order looks to be screwed up.

[daforum]

Please, please, please can we have a Mac version? :)

[3dworks]

Please, please, please can we have a Mac version? :)

mac version (32 + 64 bit) is on the way thanks to mike wolf and already looking promising :thumbsup:

cheers

markus

[dpont]

...I also notice that depending on the Display SubPatch Level of my animation the file size of the dpm file varies. This different dpm files also render the instances differently. The dpm file on a scan of an object set to Display level 1 renders the instance in the default un-animated pose. The dpm file on a scan of an object set to 0 garbles up the mesh. The point order looks to be screwed up.

Well, DP Instance depends of how Layout handles Subd Mesh,
shortly DPM Scan uses the Display Subd Level,
in DP Instance, Render Subd Level of the Reference
must be the same than the level used in DPM Scan,
to avoid confusions, try to use the same level for scanning and
rendering for both subd level.
Also in DPM Scan, if you change the Display Subd Level,
remove and readd the plugin for re-initializing the mesh.


Denis.

[shrox]

I still get a bad zip that won't open properly, is it just me? I really want to use this plugin.

[goakes]

As of 1.08 no more crashing. YEA!

Thanks Denis.

[nickdigital]

Well, DP Instance depends of how Layout handles Subd Mesh,
shortly DPM Scan uses the Display Subd Level,
in DP Instance, Render Subd Level of the Reference
must be the same than the level used in DPM Scan,
to avoid confusions, try to use the same level for scanning and
rendering for both subd level.
Also in DPM Scan, if you change the Display Subd Level,
remove and readd the plugin for re-initializing the mesh.


Denis.

Hm, DP Instance still renders the object without any motion/deformation. Does it matter that I'm trying to scan a character rigged with bones?

I just tried it with a basic non subd ball that scales up and down and that dpm motion renders fine.

[nickdigital]

I still get a bad zip that won't open properly, is it just me? I really want to use this plugin.

Maybe try using winrar? That's what I use.

[CaptainMarlowe]

mac version (32 + 64 bit) is on the way thanks to mike wolf and already looking promising :thumbsup:

cheers

markus

Wow, Mike to the rescue again. Mike, you're a life saver !

[dpont]

I still get a bad zip that won't open properly, is it just me? I really want to use this plugin.

You probably use IE8,
it corrupts zip file in the internet cache folder,
try another downloader, even IE7.

Denis.

[dpont]

Hm, DP Instance still renders the object without any motion/deformation. Does it matter that I'm trying to scan a character rigged with bones?..

DPM Scan works here with bone deformations
like any other transformations, displacements.

Denis.

[shrox]

You probably use IE8,
it corrupts zip file in the internet cache folder,
try another downloader, even IE7.

Denis.

Bad, bad sucky browser!!

[nickdigital]

DPM Scan works here with bone deformations
like any other transformations, displacements.

Denis.

Is the problem with objects that are sub'd objects? I did a quick test on a ball with bones. The one that isn't subdivided renders. The one that is doesn't.

On a side note I've attached a scene with two nulls that are using two different objects as instances. Only one instance will render.

[dpont]

Is the problem with objects that are sub'd objects? I did a quick test on a ball with bones. The one that isn't subdivided renders. The one that is doesn't.

Yes, I can reproduce 'garbage' on the instance surface
in my own testing, with DPM + subpatch + animated bones,
not sure, but I think I couldn't fix it, could stay as a limitation.


On a side note I've attached a scene with two nulls that are using two different objects as instances. Only one instance will render.

I can render both objects from your scene here.

Denis.

[dpont]

Yes, I can reproduce 'garbage' on the instance surface
in my own testing, with DPM + subpatch + animated bones,
not sure, but I think I couldn't fix it, could stay as a limitation.


Was wrong, a previous bug was partially repaired,
this is fixable, DPM + subpatch + animated bones
soon in the next update.

Denis.

[nickdigital]

I can render both objects from your scene here.

Denis.

I just reloaded my scene and both instances render now. Maybe DP Instance likes to be refreshed a lot? I do notice that my 2nd instance is squashed even though all my scale settings are 100%.

[dpont]

Maybe DP Instance likes to be refreshed a lot?.

Don't think this is a problem for refreshing,
this scene is odd, scale parameters have
default value, should not be stretched,
but I have not been able to reproduce
this from scratch, don't know the history
of different settings you used before
it became like this, you should just
remove the plugin and reset, I think.

Denis.

[dpont]

Don't think this is a problem for refreshing,
this scene is odd, scale parameters have
default value, should not be stretched...

Ok I got it, an error in the Reference system,
need to test more but should be fixed soon.

Denis.

[dpont]

DP Instance updated to version 1.12,
for both win32 and win64,
fixes for subpatch DPM and Scaling errors,
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[nickdigital]

Impressive turnaround on updates.

I'll play with this tomorrow.

Merci!

[Boris Goreta]

Hey Denis, very nice plugin, thanks.

Apparently it does not work if the source object does have a clip map on it which is essential for cloning foliage. Much faster to render then transparency maps. Is it possible to make it work with clip maps ?

Transparency maps don't work either. It would be cool to use them to make a forest. :o)

[dpont]

DP Instance works with both transparency and
clip map of Reference here, if the Reference
is in front of Instances, an advanced camera
like perspective must be used, to see Instance
through trans/clip areas of the Reference surface.

Denis.

[Boris Goreta]

Well the clip maps are not working here. Here is the scene that shows it.
This is a reference object, a plane with a clip map on it. The instance does not render in this image.

http://www.borisgoreta.com/forum/1.jpg

But if I delete the clip map on the reference object,

http://www.borisgoreta.com/forum/clip.jpg

instance renders just fine:

http://www.borisgoreta.com/forum/2.jpg

[K-Dawg]

@ Boris
Well you have to let Denis know your on HC. How else should he know where the problem is?

AFAIk the Plugin is for 9.x and not for HC.

EDIT:
But besides that, I can Confirm your issue with the Scene you uploaded with 9.6

[Boris Goreta]

Yes, I've checked it with 9.6 too and it does not work. I'm using 64 bits, maybe thats the problem ?

[K-Dawg]

Dunno. Maybe. I only use 64 Bit LW.

But I really have the same issue with your scene file on my system as well. So your not alone :)

LW 9.6 X64

[dpont]

Yes, I've checked it with 9.6 too and it does not work. I'm using 64 bits, maybe thats the problem ?

No I got it, but this affects only Image Map in Clip Map,
my tests used Clip Map Procedural.

Denis.

[dpont]

on another side Clip Map works with instances,
with the alpha channel of a 32bit image.

Denis.

[Boris Goreta]

Thanks for the tip :)

[archijam]

Nice denis!

Hope all is great where you are :)

[dpont]

Thanks for the tip :)

..But not sufficient,
suppose that everyone would like to get
the same result than the Reference Clip Map,
this is actually fixed for your sample scene,
just need to fixed also for embedded alpha
blended with image, before an update.

Denis.

[Boris Goreta]

Could DPInstance possibly take into account scaling, roatation and position of a reference object so if I scale the reference object all the clones scale too etc. ?

Ah, my bad, it is not automatic, you need to tell it to take that into account.

[dpont]

Could DPInstance possibly take into account scaling, roatation and position of a reference object so if I scale the reference object all the clones scale too etc. ?

Ah, my bad, it is not automatic, you need to tell it to take that into account.

Set "Reference Cloned As" to "Transformed & Displaced",
then when you modify (scale/rotate/move) the Reference occur
then instances are automaticly updated in preview,
and instances should follow the animation of the Reference.

Denis.

[erikals]

"...Different instances for this Custom Object and same selected Reference
may have different DPM Motion Data files, randomly picked in the list."

is it possible to instead of random, make it driven by a weightmap or texture?
this would be awesome (!)

[dpont]

is it possible to instead of random, make it driven by a weightmap or texture?
this would be awesome (!)


I understand the interest for controling
the animation for each instance, but
the main important goal for instancing
is the minimal RAM requirement and
speed for computing instance data.

A weight map belongs to a mesh, instances are
not always distributed on a mesh object.
An Instance is basically a world position
a bit limited for evaluating a Texture Layer,
surely slower and much heavy to store in RAM and
in scene file.

Denis.

[dpont]

DP Instance has been updated to version 1.13,
for both win32 and win64,
fixed the problem with Image Layer,
corrected also the look of the procedural texture,
for Clip Mapped Reference,
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[mikechen6996]

It will rendering errors if use CLip Map and Volumetric Lighting,If off Volumetric Lighting it will be ok,but if scenes has a volumetric Lilghting Light a Clip Object it will not rend object

[dpont]

It will rendering errors if use CLip Map and Volumetric Lighting,If off Volumetric Lighting it will be ok,but if scenes has a volumetric Lilghting Light a Clip Object it will not rend object

It works here but with "Texture Enabled" in Volumetric
light settings,

88479

Denis.

[Boris Goreta]

Clip maps work now correctly.
I've tried clip maps with volumetric lights too and it does not work on 64 bits.

http://www.borisgoreta.com/forum/volume.jpg

Is this Enable Texture button you are reffering to ?

http://www.borisgoreta.com/forum/Capture.JPG

It is on by default.

[dpont]

I works here,
88484

win32, be sure to run the version 1.13,
if the "Texture Enabled" is off, instance
is rendered but not clip mapped, all opac.

Denis.

[Boris Goreta]

Does not compute :)

[dpont]

Do you get at least a clip mapped instance
without volumetric light?

Denis.

[Boris Goreta]

Yes, clip maps work now with non volumetric lights.

[dpont]

Thanks for confirmation,
I will investigate more in Volumetric lighting.

Denis.

[ivanze]

Thanks Denis for this great plugin and all the fixes you are making to it. It is like having our own coder. :)

[dpont]

The win32 and win64 issues in Clip Mapping Reference
in presence of volumetric lighting had the same origin,
fixed and updated in both 1.14 versions,
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[Boris Goreta]

Confirmed :)

[K-Dawg]

Hi Denis,

I was just playing around a bit and figured out, if an Object has multiple surfaces and I select the "Surface Distribution" I can't select a Surface I'd like my Instaces to be.

Is it possible to add an Option where we could select a surface to Distribute the Instances on when selecting Surface Distribution? That would be a nice thing to have.

Thx for work sofar. This is as great of a plugin as all your others are. Really Appreciate what you do.

Greetz

[dpont]

I was just playing around a bit and figured out, if an Object has multiple surfaces and I select the "Surface Distribution" I can't select a Surface I'd like my Instaces to be.

Yes "Surface Distribution" is not related to the 'material'
surface but the whole mesh, but you can use a weight map
for controlling the distribution of instances on a mesh object.

Denis.

[dpont]

The last 1.14 version of DP Instance
has been ported to Mac UB, 32-bit and 64-bit
embedded in the same file;
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Thanks to Michel Wolf http://www.db-w.com/

Denis.

[3dworks]

The last 1.14 version of DP Instance
has been ported to Mac UB, 32-bit and 64-bit
embedded in the same file;
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Thanks to Michel Wolf http://www.db-w.com/

Denis.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[dpont]

I re-uploaded the Mac UB version of DP Instance (10/01/10),
this is still the v1.14 with a specific fix for OSX 64-bit by Michael,
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[K-Dawg]

Just figured something else out.

Objects with FFX don't show up on Instanced Objects.

EDIT:
Oops. Just noticed how uninformative that is. What I mean is, the Instanced Object does render, but the FFX doesn't show up. The Original Object does show the FFX though.

[littlewaves]

you'll need to switch fiber fx to "volume only" and then under the instance tab select the particle emitter you're using for dp instance.

you'll find however that it takes a phenomenally long time to render even with very sparse fibers. At least that's what I found

[K-Dawg]

Nope doesn't work. i can't even select anything under the Instance Tab of FFX.

I still just get the Object, but no Hair. I'm not using Particls, just a null.

[taleequale]

Thanks Denis

[littlewaves]

yeah looks like that only works with an emitter rather than a null. Oh well

To be honest the render hit I got for using volume only on FFX on instanced objects was so severe that it's not really worth it.

And it's not like any of us are short of excuses to abandon FFX! Anyone tried DPinstance with Saslite/Sasquatch?

[littlewaves]

guess you could always attach a single particle emitter to your null

[erikals]

DPinstance cannot be used with Sasquatch as Sas doesn't create geometry.

you could paint geomerty in FFX, for then to replace it with DPi or HDinstance.

(though instancing does have limits, like all geometry will look the same, e.g. no individual bending)

this could have been solved if DPi or HDi could drive the animated motions of the instances based on an image map,
but currently neither of the plugins has this option, unfortunately. it would have been super... :l

it would also have solved some crowd simulation limitations.

[dpont]

...(though instancing does have limits, like all geometry will look the same, e.g. no individual bending)...

List of various References,
or may be a short DPM Scan with different
endomorph set with Morph Mixer per frame,
then a DPM Displacement, "Repeat" mode, zero "Speed"
and "Offset" to get various morph shapes?

Random animation is certainly not sufficient
for advanced crowd, but an image map seems
also very limited.
With classic (not instanced) clones
you can vary the MDD, speed, offset
per clone in the Displacement NE,
using Motion Info node also to get info
of the parent for speed, index of MDD,
but still rustic, a pain to get complex behavior
with animated transition and logic nodes...
AI system are more complex to do.

Denis.

[erikals]

...gave it some more though,
maybe the answer is to instance the fur where the fur is static,
while using regular objects with dynamics where the fur is dynamic.

...probably the best way.

...long man/women hair is another story
(though it looks like FFX works good in that case...(??)

 

[Boris Goreta]

Hi Denis, there is no translucency effect on instances. This is another groovy thing very useful in foliage rendering. Do you think you could fix that ? Thanks.

[dpont]

Yes, Translucency was broken,
fixed in the version 1.15.


Denis.

[RudySchneider]

I'm confused about how to actually use DPInstance. The "DP_Instance_x32" file doesn't have a ".p" extension, and the usage instructions say to "add it to a null." Can someone please steer me straight?

[erikals]

umm,... it should....
scroll down, and open one of the zip files, inside you will see a xxxx.p file
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html


after installing, using it should be easy...
Usage :
-Instances are tied to Null/Objects, distributed on the pivot,
on the geometry or the particle positions in case of emitters.

-Add the DP Instance Custom Object plugin to this Null or Object.
-Select a Reference to clone in the "Scene Object List".
-Click on the "Add New Object Reference" to get it in the "Reference List".
-In case of a Null, "Pivot Instance position and default settings,
just add the DP Instance volumetric and render, other details are
described below.

[RudySchneider]

Well, maybe I'm suffering from the same problem as shrox. I can unzip the file with 7-ZIP, but it doesn't result in a .p plug-in, just "DP_Instance_x32," with no extension, as I said above. And it won't unzip with my version of WinZip. So, looks like I need to try downloading with Google Chrome instead of IE8.

Edit: That seems to have taken care of it!

[dpont]

Well, maybe I'm suffering from the same problem as shrox. I can unzip the file with 7-ZIP, but it doesn't result in a .p plug-in, just "DP_Instance_x32," with no extension, as I said above. And it won't unzip with my version of WinZip. So, looks like I need to try downloading with Google Chrome instead of IE8.

IE7 works also correctly,
this has been reported a lot, always caused by IE8.

This is also what happened a few months ago,
when someone decided to post directly one of my tools
here in this forum without permission,
original winzip on my site are verified,
there are safe, and plugins can be extracted correctly.
I'm not IE8 myself, may be this should be reported
to Microsoft.

Denis.

[COBRASoft]

Wait till you try IE9... Some weired things in that version... Still beta though.

[K-Dawg]

Nothing new on the MS side :ohmy:

[Jim M]

This is absolutely awesome. Many many thanks.

[dpont]

Yes, Translucency was broken,
fixed in the version 1.15.

Available in both win32 and win64 versions.

Denis.

[Jim M]

Everything works great, and to me it feels fast. Just rendered 50 million polys in 2 minutes with FG.

[Jim M]

If it was easy to implement...... one thing that I think would be 'nice' would be to be able to instance onto an object, then to instance that object with the instances on it. So you could put fine details onto mid size forms then distribute those over a large form.

Might be one of those things which is a great deal of effort for what people might see as limited use. But instancing leaves on trees, then instancing the trees is one obvious example.

Maybe it can do this already but I cant get it to do it.

[dpont]

...Might be one of those things which is a great deal of effort for what people might see as limited use. But instancing leaves on trees, then instancing the trees is one obvious example...

Leaves distribution on branches is more complex
than grass distribution, needs more parameters
than the actual "Align To" options for a realistic
foliage.
I think that "Cascading" instances is too expensive
in time for offering a real advantage.

Denis.

[Boris Goreta]

Thanks for the update, this is a great plugin ! I especially like the fact that the clones can be shaded using nodes.

I've started using it in a real world project for pebble and grass rendering:

http://www.borisgoreta.com/forum/render5-v3.jpg

There is a performance hit when having so many pebbles so I ran a test to see how DP Instance compares to HD Instance in terms of speed. Total amount of clones is not 100% the same in both renderings because DP Instance uses absolute numbers and HD Instance uses percentages but visually they are almost the same.

DP Instance render 260s :

http://www.borisgoreta.com/forum/DP_Instance.jpg

HD Instance render 15s :

http://www.borisgoreta.com/forum/HD_Instance.jpg


I've attached a DP Instance version of the scene if you want to test it yourself.

[dpont]

I already replied in this thread that DP Instance is not competitive
with other (commercial) instancing solutions for huge number
of instances, considering speed.


Denis.

[K-Dawg]

I already replied in this thread that DP Instance is not competitive
with other (commercial) instancing solutions for huge number
of instances, considering speed.


Denis.

Are there any Plans or Intentions to improve Renderspeed? Just for curiosity.

[Jim M]

Thanks for the response Denis.

Do you have the HDI scene as well Boris?

[Boris Goreta]

Here you go Jim. :)

[Jim M]

Ta, I will have a play with those.

[colkai]

Well, considering HDInstance $299
Methinks I can live with a speed hit. :D :D

[dpont]

Are there any Plans or Intentions to improve Renderspeed? Just for curiosity.

I think that DP Instance render speed is good
for a reasonable number of instances and a
high poly reference object.
I have not statistics about the critical limit.

Denis.

[Jim M]

I was pleasantly surprised at the speed with full GI. The fidelity of shadows with HDRI seems great. Overall very predictable so far... I am very excited by this, I dont know why but it just makes me smile when I use it.

[Jim M]

http://content.luxology.com/gallery/ba4222e6eb1de21a1aeb3bb31e25840d.jpg

I thought this was a nice example of instancing trees and grass. Luckily for modo users one can put fur on instances, which does a fairly believable job for leaves at a distance.
This is where my initial desire to cascade instances came from. Sorry to be slightly off topic.

[K-Dawg]

Well, the Speed isn't too bad, but sometime even simple Scenes with coled Objects instead of Instanced render allot faster. Thats why I asked if it will maybe someday be worked on for better render speed. It doesn't have to be as fast as HD Instance, but maybe 50% faster than now would really be a nice improvement.

I think Denis really loves to Program and be challenged, so I think this might be a nice challenge for some day :D

Besides that, I'm not complaining about the Plug-In. It is just a great and fun Plug-In and certainly very very nice of Denis to release it for free. It surely has potential.

Now, I was playing around again today to see if I (not really confident though :D) could see if I could use DP Instance combined with other DP Plug-Ins like DPKit, Node Item Motion etc.

After a Few tests I noticed I can't get it done. I was trying to do something like this
http://www.youtube.com/user/bryphi77#p/c/2140760D35EB9372/0/rmby2pUnQhU
but Instanced instead of Cloned. I got the displacement setup with Node Item Motion and the instance set, but 1. my Instances all move equally instead of following the texture displacement. Also my Surfacing didn't work like it should, to randomize the Color depending on the Y displacement.

Any Ideas how to do what Brian did and using DP Instance instead of cloning?

Greetz

[dpont]

Well, the Speed isn't too bad, but sometime even simple Scenes with coled Objects instead of Instanced render allot faster...
..And what about RAM? Isn't the less interest of Instances?

...Thats why I asked if it will maybe someday be worked on for better render speed...
Render Speed without comparing number of instances
and Reference quality is definitively something vague for me,
I wrote that the question is more about the number of instances
but again I still don't know statistics...

...could see if I could use DP Instance combined with other DP Plug-Ins like DPKit, Node Item Motion etc.

After a Few tests I noticed I can't get it done. I was trying to do something like this
http://www.youtube.com/user/bryphi77#p/c/2140760D35EB9372/0/rmby2pUnQhU
but Instanced instead of Cloned. I got the displacement setup with Node Item Motion and the instance set...

Can't play the video here, seems confused to me,
just can say that technics based on classic clones could be used in
DP Instance for cloned Nulls and "Pivot" Mode.

Denis.

[erikals]

Well, considering HDInstance $299
Methinks I can live with a speed hit. :D :D

well, only if you want the extra features...
HDinstance 1.8 is actually $149

but considering DPi is "free" sort of... (donate) it's very good

 

[K-Dawg]

..And what about RAM? Isn't the less interest of Instances?


Render Speed without comparing number of instances
and Reference quality is definitively something vague for me,
I wrote that the question is more about the number of instances
but again I still don't know statistics...
Oh no, pls don't get me wrong. I'm not giving bad critics or complaining about what you did.

What you mean with RAM is, Instances keep RAM Usages low? If you mean that, sure, that is already worth much. That way with many Clones, RAM would be cluttered and LW respond very slow. With Instances RAM is spared and LW responds still very quick.

No critics on that. Thats why I really like the Plug-In very much.

The Renderspeed is based on one of my Scenes I worked on lately with 154 Chairs cloned using Node Item Motion. The chairs where all Textured, had Reflection on etc. Node Editor Texturing. Depending on where the Camera was in the scene, I had rendertimes between 20-30 Minutes per frame with MB and so. No AS.

I'll compare that with DP Instance and let you know the differences if you like. Maybe that can Help.

What Statistics are you referring to? Maybe I con do some simple Scene tests with many Instances and see if and where LW crashes with DP Instance. is that something your referring to?


Can't play the video here, seems confused to me,
just can say that technics based on classic clones could be used in
DP Instance for cloned Nulls and "Pivot" Mode.

Denis.
I'll try that out.

Here another Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmby2pUnQhU

Greetz

[dpont]

What you mean with RAM is, Instances keep RAM Usages low? If you mean that, sure, that is already worth much. That way with many Clones, RAM would be cluttered and LW respond very slow. With Instances RAM is spared and LW responds still very quick...

Yes unlike clones, instancing stores the Reference geometry
data only once and minimal data for positionning Instances.

...What Statistics are you referring to?...
I'm refering to 'undone' statistics with progressive growing of
the number of instances, because I'm more curious about
the threshold of this lack of performances, but I can
compare myself with other tools.

I think that Kray is not limited by the LW volumetric ray
so it goes probably faster, like any other native solutions.

About the video, not sure that instances are usefull
for just cloning a cylindar shape.


Denis.

[COBRASoft]

K-Dawg: nice usage of nodes there :).

[K-Dawg]

I'd like to say thx, but thats not mine and therefore I can't take the credits.

This is one of many Tuts from Brian (don't remember last name atm) also known as 3D4me. I was just trying to find out how I could get that work flow combined with DP Instance.

I'd like to have like 2k or more Instances for something similar to the X-Men holo thingy you can see in this Tut from Proton.

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/movies/w3dw/xpin.mov

And also see if there might be something else found that might have to get fixed.

Again, just playing around hardly scratching the surface of LW as usual on my side :D

Greetz

[wesball]

Great plugin. I actually posted a test on another thread. It's working great... especially for the price. :)

One issue I've found, maybe it's just me...

I have a weightmap on the surface driving the instance density. When I close the scene and reopen, the weightmap field doesn't hold. I have to reselect the weightmap on all the surfaces.

I'm on a mac 9.6 if it helps.

Thanks again.

[Jim M]

Just been pushing it a little bit.

Rendered 2,100,000,000 polys with GI, Distant Light, RT Shadows, 640x480, AAx3 + AS@0.3 ... 85 seconds

2,100 instances.

I've never rendered 2 billion polys before :)

[dpont]

...I have a weightmap on the surface driving the instance density. When I close the scene and reopen, the weightmap field doesn't hold. I have to reselect the weightmap on all the surfaces.

Confirmed, in win versions too,
Weight Map was not loaded correctly,
fixed in the version 1.16.

Thanks for report.
Denis.

[erikals]

Just been pushing it a little bit.

Rendered 2,100,000,000 polys with GI, Distant Light, RT Shadows, 640x480, AAx3 + AS@0.3 ... 85 seconds

2,100 instances.

I've never rendered 2 billion polys before :)

wow! hehe, ey, try to double it! :]

[wesball]

Sweet. So here's my test using the plugin.

http://www.vimeo.com/15684875

All the grass and small plants on the road are full on geometry, instanced a few thousand times.

Really happy this plugin is available to us. Thanks a ton.

If there was only one thing I would really want added.... fog. Would that ever be a possibility? Or is a technical problem and I shouldn't get my hopes up?

[dballesg]

sweet. So here's my test using the plugin.

http://www.vimeo.com/15684875

all the grass and small plants on the road are full on geometry, instanced a few thousand times.

Really happy this plugin is available to us. Thanks a ton.

If there was only one thing i would really want added.... Fog. Would that ever be a possibility? Or is a technical problem and i shouldn't get my hopes up?

wow! :d

[erikals]

(remember to donate) http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/smile.gif

[littlewaves]

Sweet. So here's my test using the plugin.

http://www.vimeo.com/15684875

All the grass and small plants on the road are full on geometry, instanced a few thousand times.

Really happy this plugin is available to us. Thanks a ton.

If there was only one thing I would really want added.... fog. Would that ever be a possibility? Or is a technical problem and I shouldn't get my hopes up?

Great stuff. Is the motion blur post processed?

[Jim M]

Very nice Wesball

[dpont]

88769

A possible next update.

Denis.

[Jim M]

Oh my god !!!!!!
I dont like to beg.... but please do that!!!

[wesball]

Great stuff. Is the motion blur post processed?

No.

1600x800 real lens camera AA 2, motion blur 2

[Cageman]

Sweet. So here's my test using the plugin.

http://www.vimeo.com/15684875

All the grass and small plants on the road are full on geometry, instanced a few thousand times.

Really happy this plugin is available to us. Thanks a ton.

If there was only one thing I would really want added.... fog. Would that ever be a possibility? Or is a technical problem and I shouldn't get my hopes up?

Nice test you got there! :thumbsup:

And I have to second your request; instances supporting fog would be absolutely usefull for all kinds of things in compositing. That said, maybe it would be possible to use a shader-solution for an instance-only "fog" pass? (if fog can't be supported that is).

[erikals]

maybe you can use z-depth to create fog instead?

[Dodgy]

Mmmmmm nodal control of instances.... so nice....

[nickdigital]

mmmmmm nodal control of instances.... So nice....

+1!

[COBRASoft]

Dpont is surprising himself from time to time I think :D.

Looking sweeeeet!

[colkai]

Denis is da man, LW without his plugins is like a bacon buttie without butter and brown sauce. S'ok, but it ain't "all that"! :D
(LWCAD is added sausage and mushrooms ;) )

[mikadit]

A nodal possible update is awesome.

[geo_n]

Excellent test. Wonder if it could be used with carbon scatter.

[dpont]

I updated the win32 version of DP Instance,
this is the version 1.2,
Fixed a Dissolve Effect problem with recursion.
Added LW Fog to instance rendering.

A new DP Instance Node Editor, for adding instance animation
to the initial distribution, Position , Rotation, Scaling,
DPM Index, DPM Speed and DPM Offset.

Added a Instance Info node (DPKit/Instance folder), with a
(local) Instance Index output, and a (local) Reference Index output.

More details about the DP Instance Node Editor
in the "Nodal tab" documentation,
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[dpont]

DP Instance version 1.2
also available for win64, thanks Marvin,

Denis.

[stevecullum]

Thanks Denis and Marvin - awesome update! :)

[erikals]

interesting,... very interesting,... http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/smile.gif

[Boris Goreta]

Very nice update. :jam:

Is it possible to read rotation of randomly rotated instances on a surface ?

For instance, I made a similar setup with instances randomly distributed over a sphere and aligned to surface normal. What I'd like to do is for some clones to rotate around their distributed y axis. How do I do that ?

[Tonttu]

The thread started with the announcement that this project is closed and now we are in Houdiniland?!

[Jim M]

Dont really want to bother you Denis, as this is excellent as it stands, but I also have a feature request which would be useful for geometric patterns etc. Rotation steps.
e.g. setting a heading variation of 360 degrees with a step of 90 degrees.
Useful for a whole host of situations.

[COBRASoft]

I don't know what to say anymore.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[_F9_]

Thanks very much for this!

[wesball]

Saweeet! So what has to happen to get the Mac versions?

[geo_n]

interesting,... very interesting,... http://erikalstad.com/backup/anims.php_files/smile.gif

Time to do one of your youtube plugin vidoes :D

[erikals]

 
...not for this one i'm afraid  :]
me and nodes is like... well, it ain't pretty...  ;]

 

[erikals]

(edit: sorry, forget it about the DPM question... digging more into it...)
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/MDD_Pointer.html

...that DPM offset looks extremely fun  :]


 

[dpont]

...Is it possible to read rotation of randomly rotated instances on a surface ?

For instance, I made a similar setup with instances randomly distributed over a sphere and aligned to surface normal. What I'd like to do is for some clones to rotate around their distributed y axis. How do I do that ?

A Nodal rotation overwrites panel rotation but respects
the "Align To" option, a node tree to animate (texture?)
plugged into a Make Vector node X channel (heading)
leaving other channel set to zero, plugged in rotation.
(DP Instance Node input uses vector type
for easier internal switching.)

Denis.

[dpont]

Dont really want to bother you Denis, as this is excellent as it stands, but I also have a feature request which would be useful for geometric patterns etc. Rotation steps.
e.g. setting a heading variation of 360 degrees with a step of 90 degrees.
Useful for a whole host of situations.

Could be possible, by using the Instance index
of the Instance Info node in DP Instance Node Editor
for incrementing rotation by channel.
But Rotation steps means a strict order of instance,
by setting up a geometry Distribution, Point or Polygon
with ordered point/polygon index in the original
geometry, should be doable with a primitive,
array etc..

Denis.

[erikals]

hi, i'm getting a crash when trying to load the scanned dpm file into dpinstance/displacement

www.erikalstad.com/backup/Trii.zip

[Jim M]

Thanks for the reply Denis

[archijam]

Great work Denis!

Guys, remember there is another (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?lc=GB&cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=BEZU3RQF8D3SL) way to show your gratitude ... ;)

[dpont]

hi, i'm getting a crash when trying to load the scanned dpm file into dpinstance/displacement...

Yes something has been broken in the last build.

Denis.

[dpont]

I updated the win32 version of DP Instance,
version 1.22,
Displacement DPM initialization was broken in last build.
DPM Scan is now reintialized if the geometry is modified or
if Display Subpatch Level is modified.
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html


Denis.

[erikals]

um,... i'm having a bit problem getting the dpm speed/offset to work,
would you happen to have a simple scene file example for this?...

(...or if anybody else maybe has it...)

[dpont]

um,... i'm having a bit problem getting the dpm speed/offset to work...

In Displacement tab, if you are setting positive Offset,
your current frame could be out the animation sequence,
be sure to set the End behavior to "Repeat" mode,
If you tried to setup an Offset in Node Editor,
download the v1.23 version (win32),
there's a fix for the DPM Offset input.

Denis.

[erikals]

njet,.. still no luck here with offsetting the dpm...

could you take a look at my testscene?..
www.erikalstad.com/backup/Trii-2.zip

 

[dpont]

njet,.. still no luck here with offsetting the dpm...
could you take a look at my testscene?..

I looked at your scene but quickly,
because a 28 Mo DPM is not very practical
for testing here, DPM Offset input is working
correctly here, the question is rather about
your node settings, may be the size of the
texture, a simpler scene could be more easy
to handle things, since there's no realtime
preview.

Denis.

[dpont]

A typical problem with textures is
that the output values are commonly clamped
between 0 and 1, even rarely 1,
so if you don't use a multiplier in
your node tree, offset is almost
undetectable.

Note also that the Rotation input is
evaluated in radians.

Denis.

[erikals]

 
well, it does something,.. but not what i suspected it would...

(video attached)

 

[dpont]

...And with a Multiply node?

Denis.

[erikals]

 
no, unless i'm doing something wrong, no change unfortunately...

(for testing, new dpm is 12MB in this scene, http://www.erikalstad.com/backup/Trii-2.zip)
 

[dpont]

The v1.23 version is available for win64,
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[dpont]

DPM Offset input works, but found an error in Nodal Access
so Texture fails, probably a fix for the version 1.24.

[dpont]

I updated the win32 version of DP Instance,
version 1.25,
Nodal Access to geometry data was not correct for all DPM inputs
in DP Instance Node Editor.
(but not tested with the above posted scenes)
Displacement Offset is now always handled internally as an integer
number, not fractionnal.

Denis.

[arsad]

Thanks a lot Denis!

We will start to call you Lucky Luke soon, as you are faster than your shadow. ;)

[Jim M]

"Displacement Offset is now always handled internally as an integer
number, not fractionnal."

Does that mean if a float/scalar is passed to it, it converts it automatically to an int?
i.e. there is no problem outputting from a procedural directly (be it multiplied or not).

[ANS]

My grass test. It took about 1.2 hour to render :cursin: effect is not ideal :) but i want to try more and more :)
Thanks a lot Denis for really good plugin!

[Jim M]

I did some grass tests to, what I found was....

More instances = greater render times.
I.E make a few patches of grass with lots of blades in. Instance with random heading. This brings the render times right down, relatively speaking.
I rendered 2 billion polys in a minute and a half with GI and some fairly low AA.

[erikals]

yes, try what Jim says.

[erikals]

not sure what i'm doing wrong with DPM offset, i'll just pass on it for now...
(if anyone could share a sample scene that'd be super)

[dpont]

"Displacement Offset is now always handled internally as an integer
number, not fractionnal."

Does that mean if a float/scalar is passed to it, it converts it automatically to an int?
i.e. there is no problem outputting from a procedural directly (be it multiplied or not).

Yes, conversion is done after the evaluation of
the DPM Offset input,
but a 0 or 1 frame offset is useless,
so a Math Multiply node is necessary.

Denis.

[dpont]

A few other fixes, DPM and nodal improvements,
version 1.28, updated of DP Instance win32,
DPM Displacement didn't use DPM file original frame rate.
Target is now correctly evaluated for Local Reference instead of
Custom Object.
UV and Vertex Map implemented for Nodal Scaling and Surface Distribution.
http://dpont.pagesperso-orange.fr/plugins/DP_Instance.html

Denis.

[CaptainMarlowe]

Wow...

Do you ever take a break ? ;)

[ANS]

I did some grass tests to, what I found was....

More instances = greater render times.
I.E make a few patches of grass with lots of blades in. Instance with random heading. This brings the render times right down, relatively speaking.
I rendered 2 billion polys in a minute and a half with GI and some fairly low AA.

This trick works when terrain is flat or almost flat. On hills, big grass patches make terraces :) Anyway, it speeds rendering.

[Jim M]

I wouldnt call it a 'trick' as such.... I think you are missing a few of the settings and techniques.

Align to surface normal <---- important
Make Grass in a circlular plan where th density fades to the edges, or becomes sporadic at its boundary.
Vary the height within the grass patches.
Use 3+ different grass patches.
Also try lowering initial geometry so it sits slightly under ground plane.

Interesting render though

[ANS]

I wouldnt call it a 'trick' as such.... I think you are missing a few of the settings and techniques.

Align to surface normal <---- important
Make Grass in a circlular plan where th density fades to the edges, or becomes sporadic at its boundary.
Vary the height within the grass patches.
Use 3+ different grass patches.
Also try lowering initial geometry so it sits slightly under ground plane.

Interesting render though

Yes. I think about this, but too late- i already hit F9 :) and i' m curious about the result :) What i get looks like rice plantation :bday:

[zardoz]

this doesn't add anything to this thread. it's a simple test.
instanced trees, rocks and grass. I know it's a small resolution, I'll try a bigger one latter.
around 100.000.000 polygons.
50 minutes in a Q6600 with 4 gigs
cheers

tx for this dennis